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[TheHollowNight]

I was born a white male, I am not gonna be shamed and feel bad because of that. No one should.

It's not about self-deprecation or feeling ashamed, it's more about taking a step outside your own perspective and seeing what it's like for other people.

 

[213372bu]

"Male privilege" is a toxic term, and if the goal is to bring about honest discussion and to raise up women to the same privilege afforded to men (assuming each and every thing in the article is legitimate) then it needs to be discarded. No one likes to be told their gender is privileged any more than someone likes to be told "you suck at gaming because you're a girl/gay/such-and-such race/etc"

Pointing out "dat privilege" is a mental exercise at best and a game of pile-on at worst. And the trouble is that it's quite easy to point the finger instead of engaging in thoughtful discussion, so we have articles like this that touch on an issue that is real and is important and should be addressed, but it's done in such a superficial way that I have to wonder if the only purpose is click-bait. Why not focus on ways to level the playing field instead of just pointing to those (supposedly) on a pedestal and complaining?

I've been saying the exact same thing, but somehow or another, it just sifts to the bottom. This is exactly what needs to be done, however, if we want anything to get done.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Is there literally anywhere I can go as a white male without being concerned about privilege?


I'm genuinely curious.

Zimbabwe.

As for the list, I daresay most of it's true but, like others have said, it's merely a small mirror of the wider problems society faces.

And some aren't necessarily to do with the patriarchy, either. I did a degree in 3D Animation and one of the strands was Games focused, and the guys outnumbered the girls on it about 10:1. It's hard to see how the people running the industry can see greater diversity until the educational institutions also see more diversity. And they can't see more diversity until more girls are interested in a) joining the industry and b) taking techy classes at school to meet the prerequisite knowledge to go into a games course in the first place (since guys currently outnumber girls in computing subjects way before degree level, too). I don't really know the solution to that.

 

[Jado]

Kind of a side point but I was wondering the other day, Asians seem to perform as well as whites but privilege doesn't seem to be attributed to Asians. I wonder what's up with that. I'm neither btw.

Culturally, Asians tend to place significantly higher focus on academic achievement which translates to some level of success in life. And they don't have to worry about being discriminated against to the same extent as dark-skinned minorities. This has the unfortunate result of them politically being used by whites as the token "model minority" -- the group they point to when talking down to other minorities for their so-called irresponsibility and failures, in total disregard to all the factors that make one group of people successful and other not.

Asians outperform whites in income, but for all their immense work and talent, they've hit an artificial job ceiling and definitely haven't taken over as the heads of large companies and become the country's absolute top earners. It's just not happening and the reasons are as obvious as when an employer won't hire a qualified black man for an entry level job.

maybe he felt some of the stuff that they're attributing you unable of experiencing in a chivalrous attempt of showing a lack equality, while displaying a lack of ethics by grouping females into a suffering group of people who can't experience the graceful mercy of the internet we males have, doing essentially polar opposite same of someone saying, as in that comic strip: "wow, women suck at math" --> "wow, males have it easy!"

The author is doing the same. I'm not upset about it, i'm simply pointing the obvious and common flaw of biased arguments backfiring if you simply place them on the opposite side. Arguments where you can't do: "bad-good" polarity because they're saying "not bad nor good" can't be so easily countered.

Gotta be honest. I have no fucking clue what you're trying to say.

I'm confused about the whole "privileged" thing. So, I'm "privileged" because of the color of my skin? Somehow the mere fact that my skin is a lighter color than someone else's skin makes me privileged? Didn't society get in trouble before because they judged people based on their skin instead of their actions and deeds?

Or is it a money thing? Am I privileged because my parents both worked over 40hr weeks so my siblings and I could grow up in a low to middle class environment? Is that why I'm privileged?

Or is it because I'm a male? Do I have a full time well paying job because I'm a male or is because I worked my way through college, learned responsibility and personal growth, and stayed up countless nights teaching myself how to program instead of partying my way through college? Is that why I'm privileged?

Sorry guys I'm just really confused

Do you really wanna know any of this? Your post mostly comes off as snarky and condescending and like you've already made up your mind about this whole privilege thing.

 

[antitrop]

As disadvantages go, PTSD is a really bad one. The same empathetic changes that society needs to make things more equal are also required to help soldiers re-integrate and thrive. I think the stigma of mental illness is also awful.

It's slightly off-topic, but I just wish more would understand that people with PTSD are not necessarily threats to society, but more so themselves. I read some very misinformed opinions in the wake of the recent Fort Hood shooting that made me very sad.

I don't want to hurt other people, I just want my own pain to go away. It's a very internal thing and the masks we put on to hide it can sometimes make Hollywood actors/actresses seem amateur.

 

[Dr.Schlomo]

Yes, you're privileged because you're white. And you're privileged because you had two parents. And you're privileged they had jobs and could afford to raise you. You did absolutely nothing to deserve any of that. And yet, it was bestowed upon you solely based on the luck of being born to certain people, at a certain time, in a certain place. And -- this is the tricky part -- the vast majority of the world didn't have those advantages, yet they have to compete in the same global marketplace you do. They have to fight for the same resources and respect that you've taken for granted your entire life.

I hope this diminishes your confusion. And post another snarky, smart-ass post in this thread again, and you can go find somewhere else to smirk.

I do appreciate your post, it was very well said, and my comment wasn't meant to be snarky. Your post does bring up an excellent point. Yes, I do have certain privileges (do not assume I take them for granted when you know absolutely nothing about me) but judging me because of the color of my skin and my gender in relation to others who share my same skin color and gender is a very ignorant thing to do.

Also, once again, do not dare to assume the fact that someone has two parents is a privilege. Spousal abuse, affairs, constant verbal abuse and disrespect of one parent to another can be absolutely detrimental to a child to the point where only have one parent would be far more of a privilege.

I realize you're a mod and that fact plus the fact that you have already judged my intentions means I'm done here.

 

[FartOfWar]

Truth and lots of redundancy in the list (which speaks to problems with article-as-numbered-list stories as much as anything). More and more though these privilege lists read like recognizable memes to me, though. Like sitting on the sidelines and watching Clampetts and Cartwrights feud (an example of said Cartwright's here: http://thoughtcatalog.com/mark-saun...m-to-not-understand-because-female-privilege/ ) in a proscribed format -- West Side Story or Beat It "fight" choreography. When you're working to populate a list like this you're inviting everyone else to try the same and attempt to show a balance on the whole with a separate set of privileges ascribed to whatever other identity group -- which is especially easy work when a list largely amounts to "here are circumstances unique to identity group X in Y context."

 

[stonesak]

It's not about self-deprecation or feeling ashamed, it's more about taking a step outside your own perspective and seeing what it's like for other people.

Unfortunately, and as has been pointed out before, when you start using terms like "privilege" people feel like their own individual problems (whether intentional or not) are being diminished. It's not productive. IMO, it promotes exclusion, not inclusion.

 

[Sothpaw]

A lot of the surrounding data point to discrimination existing still. lower call back rates. Lower promotion rates. Lower pay for the same qualifications etc... So there some recognition that Asians do okay despite discrimination not due to the lack of it.

A pretty common story is that a couple arrive with nothing (my parents) work 80h a week at min wage (literally true of mine for 2 decades) to get their kids through college. The massively higher parental investment in the kids is what helps them do better in life and the culture that inspires that also help kids be better on average at things which leads to better than average wages.

Also many of those asians people came from middle class social strata in their home country. so despite arriving in poverty and living below the poverty line they lack a lot of the problems that poverty inspires like fathers abandoning kids, a culture which looks down on achievement, and lack of investment in the children.

I'd expect at some point both of those things will fade. Because the stereotypes that keep Asian people from being hired or promoted will fade and the massive parental investment will fade. I know my wife and I probably won't work 80h a week so our kids can go to college. We'll probably work 40h/week 9-5 and pay for their education.

I agree with you. The key to other races competing with Asians is 100% in how children are raised. Asians are generally raised to kick ass and take names in school, and their salaries prove it. I admire how Asians raise their children. That said, I did read that South East Asians have higher average IQs than other races so, if true, that would obviously be a huge factor as well. And in actuality it would be Asians who are truly privileged...

 

[vcc]

It's slightly off-topic, but I just wish more would understand that people with PTSD are not necessarily threats to society, but more so themselves. I read some very misinformed opinions in the wake of the recent Fort Hood shooting that made me very sad.

I don't want to hurt other people, I just want my own pain to go away. It's a very internal thing and the masks we put on to hide it can sometimes make Hollywood actors/actresses seem amateur.

I think the only way is to talk about it to people. A lot of the misconceptions of mental illness comes from society trying to push it under the rug. It's uncomfortable for people to talk about how other people are suffering. Media doesn't help, they like to jam people into common tropes and stereotypes.

A lot of people think stuff like PTSD is something you can 'be happy' you're way out of.

I think media and maybe games can help that. A game like depression quest sheds a lot of light on how depressed people feel and how it's not that situation is shitty but parts of their brain aren't working in the same way. Maybe someone needs to make 'PTSD' quest.

 

[Freeman]

This is tiresome. There are real problems with discrimination and persecution of woman around the world that needs everyone attention, their representation in video games is not one of them.

Do people expect to have some meaningful conversation with 13 year's old playing CoD?

Male gamer privileges... I remember when being to much into video games was seen as a reason to be mocked and laughed at.

I'm not bothered that a fashion magazine or romantic comedy isn't target at me. They don't owe me anything and many things I like are not made with my demographic in mind.

Race, gender or ethnicity, won't define if I identify with a character/history or not. The character doesn't even need to be a human being for that connection to form.

We are at a point people are having to state that they are not white males for their opinions to be valid (btw I'm not one).

What do you want? For 50% of game developer of AAA games to be female? Even if in many areas the amount of men graduating and studying is far from equal? For us to apologize? What solutions are being proposed?

Some people are dicks, the majority of people I met playing games are not.

 

[Jado]

Unfortunately, and as has been pointed out before, when you start using terms like "privilege" people feel like their own individual problems (whether intentional or not) are being diminished. It's not productive.

I disagree about it not being productive. It's more to do with people being shielded from the realities of their privilege and not wanting to be confronted with the honest truth for once. What some of you are basically asking is for the discussion to be toned down (effectively neutered or shut down) so that you don't feel the least bit uncomfortable about something that shouldn't be easy in the first place. Feeling "bothered," "hurt" or "offended" is so trivial compared to the problems of the under-privileged -- and it's amazing some of you feel that not stepping on toes takes priority over pointing out this shit.

 

[Cyrano]

Unfortunately, and as has been pointed out before, when you start using terms like "privilege" people feel like their own individual problems (whether intentional or not) are being diminished. It's not productive.

No, this is just another way of trying to avoid responsibility. Privilege is a result of history and history is not something we can escape or overlook. We are responsible for our past, whether we like it or not. And yes, you are responsible for a past you are not directly responsible for. That's part of living in a society. Countries like Germany and Japan feel this intimately every day (at least with regards to WWII), and ignoring history because it's uncomfortable to acknowledge it just makes the problem worse.

 

[Juliet's 8½ Spirits]

Privilege: The idea that everyone besides oneself is the problem

 

[Sothpaw]

Culturally, Asians tend to place significantly higher focus on academic achievement which translates to some level of success in life. And they don't have to worry about being discriminated against to the same extent as dark-skinned minorities. This has the unfortunate result of them politically being used by whites as the token "model minority" -- the group they point to when talking down to other minorities for their so-called irresponsibility and failures, in total disregard to all the factors that make one group of people successful and other not.

This sounds off to me. So Asians raise their children to focus on school more than other races do. That is the reason why they are successful. Why bring in discrimination? Just being honest with ourselves, if say South American parents placed as much emphasis on school as Asian parents then wouldn't South Americans be in a better place? Also, China wasn't exactly a rich country when these people immigrated here in the 60's and 70's. It's still not anywhere near as wealthy as America.

 

[Imbarkus]

Kind of sideline, but the privilege we lament amounts to hill of beans in the face of the real inquity in our world: http://youtu.be/QPKKQnijnsM

How much time would you want to spend apologizing over some small advantage in a massively unfair game? We're all losing, but we tend to fall upon and blame our fellow losers in this game because the winners are completely inaccessible to us.

 

[The Technomancer]

Here is what I like most about the list: it highlights the actual meaning of the word "privilege" in these contexts. People often get defensive about that word because they think it means that those who use it think the "privileged" get special or superior treatment, and its easy to say "but I don't get treated as better then normal, I'm not privileged"

But as this list perfectly highlights: privilege is not about how you're treated, its about how your not treated

 

[besada]

I do appreciate your post, it was very well said, and my comment wasn't meant to be snarky. Your post does bring up an excellent point. Yes, I do have certain privileges (do not assume I take them for granted when you know absolutely nothing about me) but judging me because of the color of my skin and my gender in relation to others who share my same skin color and gender is a very ignorant thing to do.

Also, once again, do not dare to assume the fact that someone has two parents is a privilege. Spousal abuse, affairs, constant verbal abuse and disrespect of one parent to another can be absolutely detrimental to a child to the point where only have one parent would be far more of a privilege.

I realize you're a mod and that fact plus the fact that you have already judged my intentions means I'm done here.

There were a lot of ways out of this, but dishonesty wasn't one of them. I'm generally reluctant to ban people I'm directly conversing with for obvious reasons, but I'm going to make an exception with you.

Your post started by slinging scare quotes around the word privileged, while you pretended to be confused about a subject you clearly we're not confused about. You kept doubling down on that with false equivalences, an apparent unawareness that everything you listed before pulling yourself up with your majestic bootstraps was in fact an enormous level of privilege, and ending with a frowny face.

You could have shut your pie hole and backed off, or you could have addressed my points with playing the wounded deer -- you had any number of options to escape the permanent ban you're about to get.

Good riddance.