FinalStageBoss
Banned
So the guy reaches for a gun like the fucking idiot he is, gets shot and an innocent person takes a stray bullet. It's an unfortunate situation but I can't blame the cops, they have no way to tell if the gun is loaded or not.
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Police Kill Woman, Charge Man They Were Trying To Shoot With Murder
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Dion Blaster
Member
As a "cop hater", I don't see the problem with how this was handled. Not totally sure if the felony murder charge should apply, but I'm not sure what else you want the cops to do. A drunk that was reported to be waving a gun by multiple people resists arrest, and after being tazed reaches for his gun. I would like to see someone suggest an alternative that makes sense.
Giant Panda
Member
First-degree murder seems highly excessive. At most it should be manslaughter.
It's not the handling of the issue that's the problem. It's the charging of first degree murder that's a problem. Shockingly, the cops almost handled this well. But coming out the gate with a 1st murder is as fucking stupid as it is excessive. Fortunately, that's be lowered, but still. That was my issue with this.
Also, this is why my first few replies were as they were in this thread. People were comically missing my point.
Dion Blaster
Member
That wasn't directed at you specifically but I agree that the charges seem over the top.
Freaky Fred
Banned
Am I wrong? If so, what exactly were you trying to say?
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Fuck you for making me agree with you :/
TheBryanJZX90
Member
Well, cops aren't the ones who decide what he gets charged with, the prosecutors do that.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
i dont see how it can be first degree.
i agree the murder may be on the kody guy, as long as the reason the police were actually shooting is a valid reason.
if not, then the police murdered her
i agree the murder may be on the kody guy, as long as the reason the police were actually shooting is a valid reason.
if not, then the police murdered her
well
Just going with what the article stated. And I'm certain they have some level of input.
So your #notallcops in the OP was in reference to overcharging? Lol.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
I can't talk about with with even a modicum as knowledge given I'm from a country where gun ownership is highly limited and heavily sanctioned. However wouldn't a policy where you fire a round, assess the scenario, and then fire another round if needed not be better in scenarios where firing off bullets is liable to injure/kill innocent bystanders? This is me assuming that one shot make contact it would stall the assailant for long enough.
Also I want to bring up the fact the vet didn't fire a single shot again. Was this due to the responsibility of shooting first being given to one office in a situation? Or is it due to officers being able to fire once their perceive a threat?
Are you being willfully obtuse or are you just not reading all my posts? Here, let me quote this for you:
kame-sennin
Member
Which suggests to me that the officers are trying to divert attention from something that happened during the event. I would not be surprised to learn that there was additional wrongdoing on the part of the officers that has not been reported on.
Also, felony murder (which is a bullshit law to begin with) does not apply here. Unless there's been an update, Mr. Roach is only guilty of criminal menacing, which is a misdemeanor, not a felony. Once again, the police department's eagerness to prosecute Roach makes me suspect foul play.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
A mile and a half is nothing. And beating someone up has a very low chance of killing them. Stop playing dumb.
Hahaha, do you actually think this is working?
You didn't actually address anything I just said. The case was built on the assertion that without the car the robbery and murder don't happen. A jury was convinced by this.
Possessing a concealed firearm is a felony. So is armed trespassing in an occupied structure.
Reptars Revenge
Member
I have no opinion on this news but just wanted to say Florida has very strict rules.
There are 3 ways to be found guilty of 1st degree murder. 1 felony murder. 2. premeditated murder. 3 distribution of drugs resulting in murder. To commit a felony murder in the first degree it must be one of enumerated crimes (resisting an officer with violence in this case). Florida does have separate levels of felony murder, If the person who is killed is the victim of the underlying crime, an innocent bystander, or anyone other than one of the perpetrators, the crime is first degree murder. If the person who dies is a co-perpetrator, then it is felony second degree murder. (lawyer)
There are 3 ways to be found guilty of 1st degree murder. 1 felony murder. 2. premeditated murder. 3 distribution of drugs resulting in murder. To commit a felony murder in the first degree it must be one of enumerated crimes (resisting an officer with violence in this case). Florida does have separate levels of felony murder, If the person who is killed is the victim of the underlying crime, an innocent bystander, or anyone other than one of the perpetrators, the crime is first degree murder. If the person who dies is a co-perpetrator, then it is felony second degree murder. (lawyer)
MWS Natural
Member
Unfortunate that because they'll been caught lying an falsifying stories so frequently that an arrest report holds as much weight as the perps recap now.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
Reading all these stories just shows how lucky I've been in life to not be killed by someone else's extreme stupidity.
One every 28 hours.
You don't have a problem with police shooting innocent people?
Byakuya769
Member
Florida law is pretty clear. Law enforcement incompetence in this matter is pretty clear also, however.
Zoe
Member
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make?
This is the truth. Case closed.
Ima say this one more time. The punishment (or in this case, the charges) should fit the crime. First fucking degree is a gat damn joke.
The Cowboy
Member
How does not having a problem with the main person/suspect being charged with the death of the innocent bystander turn into not having a problem with the innocent bystander being shot?, I've not seen a single person stating they have no issue with the police shooting the innocent bystander (that would be crazy) - i do however see people stating they have no issue with the person who caused the situation being charged for the death of the innocent bystander.
The job of the police, as specified in their own words was:
The officer's actions going about this resulted in an innocent member of the public being shot dead and a fellow officer being injured.
I'd say that's a pretty big failure.
Freaky Fred
Banned
but these are the charges now:
so why are you still outraged?
#NotBlindHatredOfAllCops
Krappadizzle
Member
The cop should be charged with involuntary manslaughter.
PirateKing
Junior Member
I'm wondering how the cop feels knowing he accidentally killed a civilian. Fuck the guy waving his gun around.
Nothing profound. Just that police would excuse the inefficiency of a Tazer on the targeted person wearing baggy clothing, openly. That wouldn't occur to me, but now it's something I'm aware of.
It doesn't seem smart to admit that your method of non-lethally disarming a violent person from a distance could be rendered ineffective by loose clothing. That's my point if anything, I guess.
Pretty much both sides of the murder charge have been discussed and argued quite comprehensively. My 'point' was tangential to that.
Dion Blaster
Member
I don't get what you'd want him to do, other than not miss his target.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
I'm pretty sure they do. But shooting a firearm in a high stress situation is hard. I've heard stories of people unloading full magazines at close range and missing every shot. Still, doesn't exactly take a firing squad to stop a dude.
A Link to the Past
Banned
No matter if the officer is guilty, the gun-wielding man is guilty too. It's either both or just him.
What if they miss..how long do they pause?
*Bang*
"One Mississippi-Two Miss.."
The suspect could retaliate etc..
Once guns are involved, serious bodily injuries or death usually follow.
His gun wasn't loaded, yet there was an "exchange" of gunfire?
Hmmmmmm...
So your suggested alternative is, what, this?
ShinNL
Member
Cowboy culture.
Why would a citizen call the police about a gun wielding maniac, when all it does is increase your chances of getting shot?
People need to get their mind straight on for what purpose the police exists. That's the whole reason why you don't just shoot a dangerous individual right away if they're holding some hostage as a meat shield. You can't just randomly start shooting 9 times, okay?
Why would a citizen call the police about a gun wielding maniac, when all it does is increase your chances of getting shot?
People need to get their mind straight on for what purpose the police exists. That's the whole reason why you don't just shoot a dangerous individual right away if they're holding some hostage as a meat shield. You can't just randomly start shooting 9 times, okay?
No, situations like this are why the felony murder charge has become a bullshit tacked on charge meant only to pad sentences rather than to fulfill any sense of justice.
An old lady while being robbed has a heart attack and dies as a result of the stress of the situation.
A pileup occurs as a result of an attempted carjacking (though the stolen car avoids the pileup), and people die in the pileup.
These are felony murders. Instances where the individual committing a felony either directly or indirectly, through their own actions, caused the death of another.
A situation where one accomplice in a crime is shot dead in self defense and the other runs away before he ends up dead, too? A situation where the police shoot into a crowd and kill bystanders?
These aren't felony murders. They're sentence-stacking and blame-shifting.
If you think people should have the right to shoot robbers dead, and that the police should have the power to use deadly force to defuse a situation as part of their job, then you need to also be willing to give the responsibility of such actions to the individuals firing the bullet.
Whoever fires the bullet wants to be considered as having acted responsibly? Then take responsibility, damn it Don't act like the guy getting pumped full of lead is the one pulling the trigger.
They could have certainly paused for couple of seconds after 1st shot to analyse the situation. It was only a single person and he didn't even have anything in his hands.
xDUMPWEEDx
Banned
That is standard protocol here. If you are stopped by the police you make sure your hands are visible at all times. You never make any quick movements, and if you need to reach for anything (car insurance out of the glove box for example) you tell them beforehand exactly what you are going to do, then do it slowly.
If you are being reported as waving a gun around, and when confronted by police grab at your waist, you will get blown away every time. Everyone knows this.
P.S. I'm not saying this is right or wrong. I'm just saying this is how it is here, and how it's been my whole life.
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