Angelus Errare
Banned
But Fox News and Facebook told me that the negroes are targeting cops because of rap music and no father figures.
Looks like he's saying "cocks".
Looks like he's saying "cocks".
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Police officer deaths per year by firearm are the lowest they've ever been
- Thread starter Secret Fawful
- Start date
- Status
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
They see a decline in violent crime, across the world and a decline in shooting deaths for cops and they blame medicine and armor. Call of duty generation, ladies and gentleman. Maybe the cops are hiding behind well placed crates so they can catch their breath.
The Faceless Master
Member
you think it's pretty obvious? you don't say...
Sadly stats aren't kept on non-fatal police shootings. But they are frequent. Are they lass frequent year over year? I have no idea, but many more officers get shot and live than those that are killed. I've seen 3 or 4 just in the last several days.
Kevlar vests started being worn in the late 70's and weren't widely used for about a decade after that. Like I posted before that and modern medicine advancements bring those numbers down considerably.
Shamrock7r
Member
I have not moved any goalposts because this is my first time commenting on the subject. I agree the "war on police" topic is completely fabricated based on fatalities, but the "being a police isn't dangerous" argument to me is equally disingenuous as it usually only references death rates. I've seen that conversation pop up numerous times recently as a counterpoint.
I don't have any links on me now. I remember reading a good article on retired cops dealing with ptsd, and it went into overall lack of mental health checks with police in general through a career. I will try to find it.
I honestly don't know what you are trying to say.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
1,220,000 police officers in 2008 (most recent I could find), 41 police deaths by firearm.
0.00003360655% chance of dying by firearm.
So about 1/33333, or more than 3 times less likely to die from a firearm if you're an american civilian.
Link
The Autumn Wind
Those guys are Kim Davis' protection detail.
The Faceless Master
Member
shoddy armor.
travisbickle
Member
But their behavior is connected to their belief in the dangers of the job. The police view it as kill or be killed.
The Faceless Master
Member
so, we're talking about a statistical trend and you're talking about anecdotal evidence? is that what is going on here?
Metaphoreus
This is semantics, and nothing more
Dude, no. The "ck" sound is made from the back of the mouth with the lips open. The "p" sound is made by pushing air out as the lips close. Like so.
He's clearly doing the latter.
The Faceless Master
Member
i find that hard to believe.
Angelus Errare
Banned
DontBeThatGuy
Member
A War on Police doesn't exist(and calling what you're describing "a war" is simply ridiculous), and yes, the huge network that is Fox News was totally not sentimentalization during those string of deaths(or during anything mostly involving black people), even going as far to try and get people talking about BLM as some kind of hate group.
Everything else is apparently what's needed to have any chance in hell for questionable police actions to actually get very closely looked into, a baby step in the right direction towards accountability. The corruption of the Ferguson PD doesn't even get a sniff without the media attention.
(and ambushes, active shooters, these things always existed, and i'm not sure what police getting more guns has to do with anything, considering many of them never actually fire their weapons. Hell, in NYC 2012, only 60 officers out of many, many thousands discharged a firearm during "adversarial conflict". IN NYC.)
Angelus Errare
Banned
If you consider it a "war" because of media portrayal, I guess America declared full scale genocide on blacks decades ago.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Yes, it's great news, and no, that's clearly not what this thread is about.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
AcademicSaucer
Member
HOLY SHIT
The Faceless Master
Member
nope. this thread is about how dangerous being a cop is 'in general' and anecdotal evidence about cop buddies being shot to prop up a faux war when we all know the real war is the half a millennia war against minorities in America.
Chie Satonaka
Member
Can you elaborate on this point with examples? Because literally everything I've seen from people within this current conversation about police officers has done the pre-requisite lip service and #notallcops before (if) they even start to get critical about police and policing. I don't think there's a negative portrayal of police at all, and especially not from the three groups you've mentioned.
I can only go off the articles I see about officer's getting shot. It's not hearsay, there's just no database for non-fatal shootings. My point is simply that, focusing on just the officers killed which is at 26 so far for the year, is only one snapshot of a larger picture.
You can call it anecdotal, but plugging your ears and ignoring it isn't any more productive to understanding the greater problem. I've never said that the so called war on police is real, but to scoff at other evidence is disingenuous.
Angelus Errare
Banned
The Faceless Master
Member
example #1
the current President of The United States of America, Barack Hussein Obama
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...mississippi-officers-on-obamas-war-on-police/
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Barack Hussein Obama: Murderer and Agitator
Metaphoreus
This is semantics, and nothing more
This is actually a really good point. The number of police killed by gunfire is not the same as the number of police shot. It could very well be that the number shot is increasing, while the number dying from gunshots is falling, because there could be some intervening factor that prevents shootings from resulting in death more now than in the past (e.g., better training, better tactics, better body armor).
Are you sure nobody compiles statistics on that?
EDIT: Here's something. From the FBI's Law Enforcement Officers Killed or Assaulted report. This one's from 2013; the 2014 edition should be released within a few months. Unfortunately, that means we won't have access to statistics from this year until late 2016. Still, it might be interesting to see what trends emerge from looking at these figures over the span of decades.
The Faceless Master
Member
by 'scoff at other evidence' do you mean 'scoff at my anecdotal evidence' or nah?
Chie Satonaka
Member
Of course.
Thanks for clearing that up, friends. My eyes have been opened.
The Faceless Master
Member
i just had this amazing thought that maybe the criminals are also getting better training, better tactics and better body armor too. i mean, i don't have any stats on that, but surely this is a valid possible thought that i can just throw out there.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Don't forget Obama has completely set back race relations in this country by speaking on the killing of innocent blacks. He should be impartial but he's always showing favor to the black community by not doing anything to help the black community which proves he doesn't care about blacks which is why blacks shouldn't vote democrat because Obama despite being black himself doesn't care about blacks because if he did he would do more to help the black community, but he doesn't which is why I hate when he gets on TV and talks about police killing innocent blacks, it only stokes the fans of the race war and shows that he favors the black community and he shouldn't do that as president he should be impartial.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
What incredible breakthrough in gunshot treatment was made after 2011?
What evidence? That cashier is more likely to get shot and killed?
The lower violent crimes correlating with fewer shooting deaths is a valid one, and I never disagreed with. I'm not attacking you here and everytime I post you respond with snark and hostility.
I said before the faux war isn't real. Its only being propped up to counter the bigger issue that minorities are standing up and saying enough is enough and that shifts the balance of oppression that threatens conservatives that want people to believe that racism is a thing of the past.
I wasn't relying on my "cop buddies" or "shoddy armor" as any type of excuse or deflection. I don't know if its intentional or if I've said something to offend you, but your posts are coming off somewhat hostile and dismissive so I don't know what I did, but I apologize.
Well assuming that the doctors haven't gotten significantly better at treating gunshot wounds, we can reasonably posit that wounds have also gone down as mortality rates would most likely be about the same.
Not necessarily but it's a hell of a lot more logical than your position.
If blacks and Hispanics stopped committing crime then the police wouldn't need to keep shooting them!
(this was sarcasm, if anyone is too dumb to get it)
I never said that shootings in general went up or stayed the same. Doctor's may not have gotten better at treating wounds, but field dressings, tourniquets, and immediate first aid do play a part. Not to mention better vests that are lighter and better resistant.
I don't know what's so illogical about better treatment and equipment contributing to fewer deaths. Like I said, I never said shootings in general haven't went down. There's just no data to know, and using only deaths as a metric, while the only one we have, isn't the best way.
Random Painted HIghway
Member
Here is a crs study: https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43544.pdf
It's a short study with a number of interesting findings, including the increased useage of vests over years and how many lives would be saved if vests were made universal. I unfortunately for some reason can't copy paste this using my ipad.
InfiniteBento
Member
And yet still this information will remain irrelevant and nothing will change for an incredibly long time.
Metaphoreus
This is semantics, and nothing more
Hey, if you don't want to think critically about what information is put in front of you, that's your prerogative. I'm not saying that violence against police is up, because I don't have that information. I'm just saying that you can't make broad conclusions about violence against police or police safety based only on police death statistics.
EDIT:
Copying from PDFs can be a pain no matter the technology used to access them. Was this the part you were going to quote?
That would equate to an extra 100 deaths per year on average without body armor.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
That's pretty good. Too bad people killed by cops is probably over 1000 per year (and there's no telling how many are truly justified).
nitekrawlwer
Member
I actually compared the last few years worth of police deaths the first time I heard the phrase war on police. I knew that the numbers were lowering already and that notion was only confirmed.
I feel like the war on cops is just another example of how America likes to paint anyone who doesn't behave "as they should" (ie blacks not being in nice places, owning nice things, having good jobs, or questioning their authority) as aggressive and belligerent. It's just more terrorism to put blacks and minorities back in their place.
Sadly Americans don't care about data. They care about upholding the status quo aka white supremecy. This is why racist and sexist Trump has stolen the heart of Americans as well as white nationalists.
I feel like the war on cops is just another example of how America likes to paint anyone who doesn't behave "as they should" (ie blacks not being in nice places, owning nice things, having good jobs, or questioning their authority) as aggressive and belligerent. It's just more terrorism to put blacks and minorities back in their place.
Sadly Americans don't care about data. They care about upholding the status quo aka white supremecy. This is why racist and sexist Trump has stolen the heart of Americans as well as white nationalists.
Well it certainly highlights that their chances of dying on the job are lower right? So lower deaths = safer or nah?
Like could you reasonably say that 1.5 deaths per 100k folks are safer than 17 deaths per 100k folks or do we need to know about nonfatal shootings?
Link
The Autumn Wind
Very well said.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
also, potentially many more that aren't actually accounted for : http://www.wsj.com/articles/hundred...re-uncounted-in-federal-statistics-1417577504
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
That study mentions an increase in funding starting in 99. No significant change in deaths. And a small decrease in funding over the last three years. Even more drops in deaths.
This year might be a banner year.
Secret Fawful
Member
My referencing the "policework is dangerous" arguments in the topic is specifically calling out people who use it alongside the war on cops bullshit to state that cops should be immune from scrutiny or should be given more leeway when they kill people because they have more to fear, and believe me, THIS IS A COMMON THING.
Policework is dangerous, but it's not as dangerous as police are trained to believe it is, to the point that they go on the job psychologically ready to be terrified for their lives and shoot to kill first. It's been getting less dangerous.
It isn't dangerous enough for cops to shoot first, ask questions later, to be afraid of black, Hispanic, and mentally ill civilians like Jason Harrison, to see black children as older and more dangerous and responsible than they are, nor is it dangerous enough for wide-eyed, scared out of their wits, Barney Fife fucks like this to hold up a gun in a wide-eyed frenzy like he's facing his last stand.
Now, currently, or at least as of 2014, the CDC did not have the funding to log non-fatal violence statistics, and kept to fatalities to cut costs.
The Bureau of Justice Statistics on firearm violence from 1993 to 2011 indicates nonfatal firearm crimes declined 69%, from 1.5 million victimizations in 1993 to 467,300 victimizations in 2011, 90% of nonfatal firearm victimizations were committed with a handgun, but only about 61% of nonfatal firearm violence was reported to the police in 2007-11. This document has all the statistics you could possibly want, except violence against police specifically. "It shows a decline, from an average of about 22,000 nonfatal shootings in 2002, to roughly 12,000 a year from 2007 to 2011, according to a Department of Justice statistician. But over the same time period, CDC estimates show that the number of Americans coming to hospitals with nonfatal, violent gun injuries has actually gone up: from an estimated 37,321 nonfatal gunshot injuries in 2002 to 55,544 in 2011. These numbers include only injuries caused by violent assault, not accidents, self-inflicted injuries, or shootings by police."
The data is all over the place.
This article goes into more depth on why nobody is keeping better track of non-fatal statistics. "The CDC numbers are based on a representative sample of 63 hospitals nationwide, and the margin of error for each estimate is very large. The CDC's best guess for the number of nonfatal intentional shootings in 2012 is somewhere between 27,000 and 91,000" and "the number of people injured by gunshot wounds has held steady over the past decade".
I'll keep trying to find statistics on non-fatal shootings toward police, but my guess based on all this is: I won't find much. Nobody is keeping track of it.
Reverend Funk
Comfy Penetration
Yea but how many cops were killed by rap cars this year?
- Status