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[Evlar]

Ok, this HAS to be a hidden camera show at this point, right?

We're at the Magic Negro stage of Republican's dialog regarding Obama. "He can make money appear out of thin air, right?"

 

[Dude Abides]

Lee Weaver knew he was facing a serious problem when he watched his lawn sprinkler dwindle to a meager squirt at his home south of Fort Worth.

Perry's a dick but I have a hard time sympathizing with some guy who basically lives in the desert and wants a lush green lawn.

 

[mckmas8808]

 

[airmangataosenai]

I'm actually rooting for Perry. He polls almost as poorly as Bachmann and is pretty easy to portray as a villain. If his potential candidacy isn't enough to wake some people up I don't know what will.

 

[gcubed]

I'm actually rooting for Perry. He polls almost as poorly as Bachmann and is pretty easy to portray as a villain. If his potential candidacy isn't enough to wake some people up I don't know what will.

he loses to Obama in Texas.

 

[jamesinclair]

Im not adding up to 2.7 trillion?


But if thats the full plan, than Harry Reid is a hero and a patriot.

And look, the super congress is sort of in there...

 

[Deku]

I'm actually rooting for Perry. He polls almost as poorly as Bachmann and is pretty easy to portray as a villain. If his potential candidacy isn't enough to wake some people up I don't know what will.

He seems to have inherited a lot of George W.'s mennerisms as well, but I don't see much of him on TV, just a few clips.

 

[Suikoguy]

Im not adding up to 2.7 trillion?


But if thats the full plan, than Harry Reid is a hero and a patriot.

And look, the super congress is sort of in there...

I think this is the plan
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20083100-503544.html

 

[Evening Musuko]

he loses to Obama in Texas.

lol That'd be a hell of a surprise considering how he pretty much ran "against" Obama last year and won fairly easily.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Anticipating Republican criticism that the $1 trillion in savings from winding down the wars is not a real spending cut, Schumer said that "if conducting wars adds to our debt, it's undeniable that winding down the wars delivers savings." He also pointed out that Republicans counted savings from winding down the wars in the Paul Ryan budget blueprint they passed in April.

"How can they say it's good when it's in their budget but it's not good when it's in our budget?" he asked.

At his appearance Thursday afternoon, Boehner suggested he would oppose the Senate Democrats' plan.

"The plan is full of gimmicks, we're not making any real changes in the spending structure of our government, and it doesn't deal with the biggest drivers of our deficit and debt, and that would be entitlement programs," he said.

lolz

 

[gcubed]

lol That'd be a hell of a surprise considering how he pretty much ran "against" Obama last year and won fairly easily.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_TX_629513.pdf

Perhaps the clearest indication of the weakness of the Republican field is
their performance in ruby red Texas. Texas wants to be rid of President Obama with only
42% approving of his performance and a 55% majority disapproving. However, it would
be a single digit race against any of Obama’s perspective Republican opponents. Obama
performs weakest against Mitt Romney, trailing 42-50 (49-42 in January). Obama trails
native son Ron Paul 40-45, Michele Bachmann 44-47, and Tim Pawlenty 43-44. Obama
ties Herman Cain 43-43, and leads Sarah Palin 46-44 (46-47) and Texas Governor Rick
Perry 47-45 (45-45).
Bachmann is the most popular Republican contender and the only one in positive
territory with a 39-36 favorability rating. She is followed by Romney at 37-43, Cain at
27-33, Pawlenty at 22-37, Paul at 30-46, and Palin at 37-55. Perry is also unpopular with
43% approving and 52% disapproving of his performance. Texans are even less
enthusiastic about a Perry candidacy for Presidency with only 33% saying he should run
and 59% saying he shouldn’t. Republicans do want him to run though, 52-38.

 

[reilo]

lolz

it doesn't deal with the biggest drivers of our deficit and debt, and that would be entitlement programs," he said.

Hahaha haaaah.

Eh.

 

[besada]

lol That'd be a hell of a surprise considering how he pretty much ran "against" Obama last year and won fairly easily.

When Bill White is the candidate you're running against, it's not that hard.

That said, Perry's losing to Obama here in the polls because Perry hasn't started running. Perry is not well loved, but when he starts campaigning the numbers start changing. Perry's biggest threat to Obama is a nearly limitless amount of campaign cash, and the fact that he's a capable campaigner, unlike most of the Republican flock. It's easy to be everything to everyone when you don't have any actual principles.

Of course, one might say that about the President as well.

 

[teiresias]

Reid is basically just daring the Republicans to admit that their interest isn't in the deficit or the debt limit, but in tearing apart the established social safety net in this country.

 

[RustyNails]

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_TX_629513.pdf

Besides Texas, Romney would also lose Tennessee:

This is all speculation at this point though, because polls don't really mean this far out. But it's still something.

 

[Wall]

I'm not a regular poli-gaf member, but am I to understand that the dems are going to back down on higher taxes?

If you look at the finances of this country, it is alarmingly evident that higher taxes are absolutely required for a period of years (FOR EVERYONE) in order to reduce our unfunded liabilities, deficit, national debt etc. If we don't start now, then when? After the next election cycle? When things are worse and the numbers have spiraled further?

If I'm understanding the situation properly, then as an Independent I want every single representative and senator removed from office next election cycle. And I can guarantee you that a lot of other people in the independent camp are feeling the same way. Politics has become a farce grounded about 500 light years from reality. I don't care about reelection cycles, I don't care that people want to get Obama reelected (though I do believe he should be). I care about rational thought stopping the financial bleeding and wasting away of the United States of America.

Unless something changes my mind I'll be using my vote to get everyone the f out of office, and urging others to do the same. Let's see them plan for reelection cycles when the only sure thing is that no one is guaranteed a job when a reelection cycle comes up.

Then you're vote will be meaningless. The budget conflict results from deep ideological differences that separate elements of the Republican and Democratic party. The Republicans want to drastically diminish the size of the Federal government. It is a longstanding goal of the modern conservative movement, which currently completely controls the party, and has animated their politics since the mid 90's. Even during the term of Bush the 2nd, which is generally criticized for running up deficits, measures such as Social Security privatization were introduced, which were designed to replace government programs with private sector equivalents. Even the Bush tax cuts were part of a long term grand strategy called "starve the beast", where Republicans cut taxes when they are in power, then, when the Democrats come into power, use the resulting deficits to force cuts to social programs. In its current form, the most ideologically extreme in its history, the Republican party openly endorses ending social programs such as medicare and capping government spending so as to force cuts to or the elimination of programs such as social security. The Democrats, who support those social programs, and see a greater role for the public sector in he economy, naturally oppose the Republicans when they attempt to implement the policies. A strategy of blindly voting against every incumbent ignores the increasing ideological polarization between the two parties driven by the radicalization of the Republicans. It would therefore just throw a different mixture of representatives from the two parties into elected office, resulting in the same sort of gridlock we are experiencing now.

I have to say that you're economic priorities are misplaced as well. In a modern economy it is vital that the public sector run at a deficit and increase spending during periods of depressed economic activity. Trying to balance the budget through cuts or tax increases during economic conditions such as these threatens to tip the economy back into a recession, which might defeat the whole purpose of reducing the deficit because the resulting fall in revenues to the government would open up new deficits. It would also cause tremendous suffering to the unemployed and long term damage to the economy through the productivity losses suffered by those unfortunate individuals that are caused by their prolonged unemployment. One of the best ways to reduce the deficit is through economic growth. Not taking measures to ensure that the economy does go through a period of prolonged slow growth and high unemployment makes future deficit reduction more difficult.

In reality, are not currently a problem big enough to warrant the attention we are giving them. The interest rates that the government needs to borrow are still historically low, and the interest that the government needs to pay on its debts will only approach the same percentage of GDP that they were in the first Bush administration at the end of the decade. That does not mean that we should not make plans to balance our budget in the future, it just means that now is not the appropriate time to do it.

 

[slidewinder]

Reid is basically just daring the Republicans to admit that their interest isn't in the deficit or the debt limit, but in tearing apart the established social safety net in this country.

What's the chance of this coming across that way, though? Seems like just another desperate loser. GUYS! HEY GUYS

 

[Incognito]

what the fuck

Nancy Pelosi endorses Reid plan, adds: "It is clear we must enter an era of austerity; to reduce the deficit through shared sacrifice."

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

what the fuck

I am really hoping this is some political mindfuck going on and that they're just trying to show the public just how selfish and unconscionable the Republicans are, otherwise...

 

[Chichikov]

200bil from discretionary spending?
Isn't that like a 3rd of that spending (assuming we're talking non-defense here)?

what the fuck

Nancy Pelosi endorses Reid plan, adds: "It is clear we must enter an era of austerity; to reduce the deficit through shared sacrifice."

Shared between the poor and the middle class of course.
The rich Job Creators™ must be protected of course.

 

[Incognito]

I am really hoping this is some political mindfuck going on and that they're just trying to show the public just how selfish and unconscionable the Republicans are, otherwise...

even if that were true, she's using republican language. extremely damaging. obama has a bad habit of that, too.

 

[HamPster PamPster]

Weren't we winding down the wars anyway?

 

[Evlar]

Outline of the Reid plan, pasted from Klein's blog:

Reid Amendment to Break the Impasse, Cut Spending Responsibly and Avoid a Default.

Leader Reid’s amendment would reduce the deficit by $2.7 trillion, without affecting Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security and without changes to revenue. Unlike Boehner’s short-term plan, the Senate package presents responsible cuts that will allow us to raise the debt limit through 2012, providing certainty to the world markets, without hurting our economic recovery and job growth.

Details of the $2.7 Trillion Senate Democratic Package.

— $1.2 Trillion in Discretionary Spending Cuts. The $1.2 trillion in discretionary spending cuts include both defense and non-defense spending. Before Speaker Boehner broke off talks with the White House on Friday, he had already agreed to $1.2 trillion in discretionary spending cuts.

— $100 Billion in Mandatory Savings. The proposal includes $100 billion in mandatory savings that were negotiated by Democrats and Republicans participating in the negotiations led by Vice President Biden. These savings will not impact Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security benefits in any way. The mandatory savings will include:

• $40 billion in Program Integrity Savings. The proposal saves $40 billion by reducing fraud and abuse in mandatory programs. This includes: Continuing Disability Reviews and SSI redeterminations, Internal Revenue Service tax enforcement, health care fraud and abuse control, and Unemployment Insurance improper payment reviews.
• $30 Billion In Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac Reforms.
• $15 Billion In Spectrum Sales
• $10 -15 Billion In Agricultural Reforms
• Higher Education Program Reforms Whose Savings Go To Sustain The Pell Grant Program

— $1 Trillion in Savings From Winding Down the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Winding down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan will save $1 trillion. Paul Ryan’s budget also included this savings in its deficit reduction calculation, which was supported by 235 House Republicans and 40 Senate Republicans.

— $400 Billion in Interest Savings. The package includes $400 billion in interest savings, $220 billion from the discretionary spending cuts and $180 billion from winding down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Both the Ryan budget and the House Cut, Cap and Balance plan similarly included interest savings in their total calculation.

— Establishes Joint Congressional Committee to Find Future Savings. In addition to $2.7 trillion in concrete savings, the Senate package will establish a joint, bipartisan committee, made up of 12 members, to present options for future deficit reduction. The committee’s recommendations will be guaranteed an up-or-down Senate vote, without amendments, by the end of 2011.

Whatever else you say about Reid, he's got balls for including things like "Internal Revenue Service tax enforcement" as "Program Integrity Savings", heh.

 

[Byakuya769]

I'm happy that Pelosi understands true compromise too. With all this compromise going around, how could America's best days not be in front of us?

So proud right now.

 

[RustyNails]

Outline of the Reid plan, pasted from Klein's blog:
Whatever else you say about Reid, he's got balls for including things like "Internal Revenue Service tax enforcement" as "Program Integrity Savings", heh.

Doesn't look half bad, considering that it's lacking any form of revenues.

 

[Chichikov]

Doesn't look half bad, considering that it's lacking any form of revenues.

How can you tell that?
The devil is completely in the details of that 1.2T discretionary spending cut.
This could mean a whole mess of terrible things.

 

[Averon]

So, Obama is going to address the nation tonight. I think he's going to lay down an ultimatum.

 

[gcubed]

So, Obama is going to address the nation tonight. I think he's going to lay down an ultimatum.

Pass something tomorrow or else I'm going to get really mad

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Pass something tomorrow or else I'm going to get really mad

lol yep

 

[Byakuya769]

Pass something tomorrow or else I'm going to get really mad

Ha. Pretty much.

And the narrative will be "oh he looks mad!" and "he looks frustrated and weak!", discuss.

 

[TacticalFox88]

So, Obama is going to address the nation tonight. I think he's going to lay down an ultimatum.

We'll see how big his balls are. If he calls out the GOP....God bless America.

 

[zero_suit]

Pass something tomorrow or else I'm going to get really mad

As pathetic as that is, I see things playing out that way.

 

[Escape Goat]

And Boehner won't care.

 

[Incognito]

RT @RDKeil1: Most ominous development yet: Hearing members of Congress moving investments out of equities, into cash. Calling my broker now.

Bio of Richard Keil: http://www.purplestrategies.com/people/richard-keil/

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Outline of the Reid plan, pasted from Klein's blog:
Whatever else you say about Reid, he's got balls for including things like "Internal Revenue Service tax enforcement" as "Program Integrity Savings", heh.

I think this is a reasonable solution. And without increasing taxes. GOP should be happy, but something tells me they're going to turn down even this plan.

 

[gcubed]

Bio of Richard Keil: http://www.purplestrategies.com/people/richard-keil/

I moved out of my high risk funds in my 401k

 

[PhoenixDark]

Tea Party rejects Boehner's two step deal

UPDATE: 4:10 p.m. -- A coalition of Tea Party chapters and conservative lawmakers on Monday rejected the debt proposal put forward by Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio), despite his efforts to sweeten the deal with provisions favored by his conservative base.

The Cut, Cap, Balance Coalition, which boasts hundreds of Tea Party groups and more than 100 GOP lawmakers in its membership, is citing two provisions in Boehner's proposal that amount to deal-breakers: its call for creating a Congressional Commission and its inclusion of a balanced budget amendment that, according to the group, is only for show.

"A symbolic vote on a balanced budget amendment at some later time minimizes its importance, as it will not be tied to an increase in the debt ceiling," reads a statement from the coalition. "A BBA that allows a tax increase with anything less than a 2/3 supermajority is not a serious measure."

Conservatives were also rubbed the wrong way by Boehner's inclusion of a "Super Congress" in his plan. The new commission, composed of 12 members from both parties and both chambers, would be granted extraordinary new powers to fast-track legislation through both chambers without it being amended. The commission would be tasked with finding a minimum amount of spending cuts before Congress could proceed to a second increase in the debt ceiling next year.

"History has shown that such commissions, while well-intentioned, make it easier to raise taxes than to institute enduring budget reforms," reads the coalition's statement.

Boehner threw a bone to the Tea Party by wrapping a balanced budget amendment and spending caps into his final debt plan. But his specific proposal to hold a vote on a balanced budget amendment after lawmakers would be asked to vote to raise the debt ceiling isn't good enough for the group.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...tory-with-boehner-debt-proposal_n_908771.html

 

[DasRaven]

So, Obama is going to address the nation tonight. I think he's going to lay down an ultimatum.

I don't think this is going to be an ultimatum as much as a "well folks, we're all in" message.
The Dems are clearly coalescing around the Reid amendment in all chambers.

*They've met all the stated demands.
*They don't touch the third rails.
*They basically force an end to unpopular wars.

So, tonight the President offers full throated public support, says, "This is fair and should pass(up/down vote)."
And the Reps are left to either take it or fully own the result of their intransigence.

Frick: "Cuts or we crash the economy!"
Frack: "OK, Cuts."
Frick: "Sorry, the economy gets it anyway!"

Edit: And with the TP rejecting the Speaker's plan, they're in an even worse position becasue now they MUST get Dems to pass in either chamber.

 

[Aaron Strife]

I think this is a reasonable solution. And without increasing taxes. GOP should be happy, but something tells me they're going to turn down even this plan.

Obama could endorse the Ryan plan tonight and the GOP still wouldn't give him anything.

You know if Romney/Perry/Bachmann becomes president and the GOP wins both chambers, they'll give up any pretense of reducing the deficit and introduce some big new tax cut and increase military spending.

 

[Evlar]

Y'know, one of the possible endings to this drama is Boehner falling on his sword and crafting a deal with the Democrats and just enough rational House Republicans to get something through (though how the hell they get it through Ryan's House Budget Committee, I don't know). The bill passes, the limit is raised, the Tea Party seethes, and Boehner is banished to the back bench. Welcome Speaker Cantor.

If the Tea Party keeps kicking his legs out from under him he may do it out of spite.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Bio of Richard Keil: http://www.purplestrategies.com/people/richard-keil/

Wouldn't that count as insider trading?

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Obama could endorse the Ryan plan tonight and the GOP still wouldn't give him anything.

I thought that GOP did not want any tax increase for rich, but agreed on raising the debt limit.
This plan does exactly that. Something better at this point is impossible.

 

[Thoraxes]

I'm lucky I finished my undergrad and got my Pell money while I could (can't get Pell money for masters degrees and beyond). There's already been big cuts in Illinois to it just to save money in the state alone, and soon it may be happening on a national level.

 

[DasRaven]

Wouldn't that count as insider trading?

I don't believe so because it is not based on actual insider knowledge of a certainty but of a feeling.

 

[Cyan]

Wouldn't that count as insider trading?

Not really, no. They might have more of a feel for what's going to happen, but it's not exactly non-public information.

 

[Gaborn]

This

seems to suggest that the debt limit is illegal more so than this seems suggests that people have the freedom to carry guns in a private business:

Laurence Tribe disagrees with you.

 

[gcubed]

Wouldn't that count as insider trading?

We've had this conversation in the past and congress blurs the lines of insider trading.

 

[Cyan]

Laurence Tribe disagrees with you.

Gaborn, just out of curiosity, does Reid's above plan meet your criteria for a concrete proposal? Or is it still too vague?

 

[mckmas8808]

I don't think this is going to be an ultimatum as much as a "well folks, we're all in" message.
The Dems are clearly coalescing around the Reid amendment in all chambers.

*They've met all the stated demands.
*They don't touch the third rails.
*They basically force an end to unpopular wars.

So, tonight the President offers full throated public support, says, "This is fair and should pass(up/down vote)."
And the Reps are left to either take it or fully own the result of their intransigence.

Frick: "Cuts or we crash the economy!"
Frack: "OK, Cuts."
Frick: "Sorry, the economy gets it anyway!"

Edit: And with the TP rejecting the Speaker's plan, they're in an even worse position becasue now they MUST get Dems to pass in either chamber.

 

[Chichikov]

Bio of Richard Keil: http://www.purplestrategies.com/people/richard-keil/

Oh crap, Jaws weigh in too?
Shit just got real.