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[Measley]

War first social security checks second!

"George W. Bush paid for his programs!"

I really hate Fox News.

 

[gcubed]

I really hate Fox News.

thats the same as saying Barack Obama paid for his programs.

 

[planar1280]

so when the deal is not passed by August 2nd and people start to feel the pinch and the US credit goes down to AA. Who will the American voters blame. realistically. no sarcasm or jokes

 

[HylianTom]

so when the deal is not passed by August 2nd and people start to feel the pinch and the US credit goes down to AA. Who will the American voters blame. realistically. no sarcasm or jokes

My bet? The GOP at first.

But voters' memory banks rival those of goldfish, so they'll blame the guy at the top more and more as time goes on.

 

[BotoxAgent]

so when the deal is not passed by August 2nd and people start to feel the pinch and the US credit goes down to AA. Who will the American voters blame. realistically. no sarcasm or jokes

well of course there's going to be a huge propaganda campaign from Fox and Republicans that it's obama's fault. They're banking on it.

 

[Shake Appeal]

so when the deal is not passed by August 2nd and people start to feel the pinch and the US credit goes down to AA. Who will the American voters blame. realistically. no sarcasm or jokes

Short-term, whomever they already blame. Long-term, I imagine house Republicans are counting on the public forgetting the details and remembering where the "buck stops": the President.

(And if anyone is unclear on this point, they will be all too happy to elucidate.)

 

[Averon]

Voters have the memory of a gold fish. Sure, they'll mostly blame the GOP at first, but after 4-6 months of FoxNews' media campaign to to blame it all on Obama/Democrats, that will surely change. Remember, this whole issue isn't about the debt; it's about damaging the economy in the run-up to the 2012 elections.

The GOP's "Operation Economic Sabotage" has been quite successful so far. And the voters may reward them for it in 2012. If so, we deserve whatever happens to us.

 

[Vicetrailia]

"As a nation we may take pride in the fact that we are soft-hearted; but we cannot afford to be soft-headed. We must always be wary of those who with sounding brass and a tinkling cymbal preach the "ism" of appeasement. We must especially beware of that small group of selfish men who would clip the wings of the American eagle in order to feather their own nests."

~ FDR

Oh yeah baby.

 

[Measley]

so when the deal is not passed by August 2nd and people start to feel the pinch and the US credit goes down to AA. Who will the American voters blame. realistically. no sarcasm or jokes

I hope everyone realizes that the GOP is purposely tanking the economy so they can win the 2012 elections. A tanked economy means an easy win over Obama.

 

[Averon]

"As a nation we may take pride in the fact that we are soft-hearted; but we cannot afford to be soft-headed. We must always be wary of those who with sounding brass and a tinkling cymbal preach the "ism" of appeasement. We must especially beware of that small group of selfish men who would clip the wings of the American eagle in order to feather their own nests."

~ FDR

Oh yeah baby.

Haven't you heard? FDR was a socialist, commie, and marxist whose New Deal was a failure that is the root cause of all our financial ills today. Well, that's what recent revisionist GOP history tells us today.

 

[planar1280]

Would it be too unpresidential for Obama to go on a offensive barrage of sentence in a speech if no deal arises?

 

[DarkKyo]

I hope everyone realizes that the GOP is purposely tanking the economy so they can win the 2012 elections. A tanked economy means an easy win over Obama.

So we can have another 4 years of failed economic policy? That's totally what we need.

I don't think I can handle another terrible republican for four years. I know this country can't.

 

[Plinko]

How well do you think this would go over: a sales tax of 1 cent on every purchase (or dollar/10 dollars/whatever) that specifically goes toward paying off the deficit? It wouldn't affect American consumers in the lower income classes much. There has to be millions of purchases done across the country every day. 1 penny for each of those would add up after a while.

I'd much rather them raise taxes on the rich but it appears that as long as the GOP is anywhere near in control of things that will never happen.

 

[Averon]

Would it be too unpresidential for Obama to go on a offensive barrage of sentence in a speech if no deal arises?

An angry Obama makes him ripe for the "angry black man" caricature.

I'd much rather them raise taxes on the rich but it appears that as long as the GOP is anywhere near in control of things that will never happen.

No new taxes on the rich is an unsustainable position both politically and financially in the long run. Assuming the economy gets worse and more safety net services are cut, the GOP continued argument that taxing the "job creators" stifle job creation will ring hollow to the public. Also, we will never get our debt under control without tax increases and defense cuts, two things that the GOP are hellbent on preventing.

 

[Manmademan]

How well do you think this would go over: a sales tax of 1 cent on every purchase (or dollar/10 dollars/whatever) that specifically goes toward paying off the deficit? It wouldn't affect American consumers in the lower income classes much. There has to be millions of purchases done across the country every day. 1 penny for each of those would add up after a while.

I'd much rather them raise taxes on the rich but it appears that as long as the GOP is anywhere near in control of things that will never happen.

You mean a federal sales tax like a VAT that the european countries have? I believe it's been proposed, but not by who.

edit: quick and dirty, from FORTUNE last year. it's not a new idea.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/05/news/economy/vat_deficit.fortune/index.htm

 

[gcubed]

at this point, if i were the democrats i'd take a cuts only bill from republicans to get the debt ceiling raised. Sure, whatever they want, lets get this done with 100% republican ideas. By agreeing to this I also agree to not extend the Bush/Obama tax cuts. You get your cuts today, i get my taxes tomorrow.

 

[richiek]

Man, I wish Obama had the balls to invoke the 14th Amendment. Let the Tea Baggers in the House try to impeach him. It'll make them look more batshit insane, and the Senate won't convict him. I also have a feeling that the public will be behind him if this happens.

 

[Sirpopopop]

They won't get the Bush tax cuts expiration.

Obama should employ the 14th Amendment solution, and deal with the impeachment that follows.

Take his case to the airwaves. Start using some of the wonderful comics posted in this thread that paint the Republicans like utter fools, in 3 panels.

 

[tokkun]

at this point, if i were the democrats i'd take a cuts only bill from republicans to get the debt ceiling raised. Sure, whatever they want, lets get this done with 100% republican ideas. By agreeing to this I also agree to not extend the Bush/Obama tax cuts. You get your cuts today, i get my taxes tomorrow.

How would that work? If you included the tax promise in writing, then it wouldn't be a cuts only bill and the Republicans wouldn't vote for it. If you didn't include it in the bill, you'd have no way of actually getting it done.

Man, I wish Obama had the balls to invoke the 14th Amendment. Let the Tea Baggers in the House try to impeach him. It'll make them look more batshit insane, and the Senate won't convict him.

Obama doesn't want to do that, because there is a fear that without substantial cuts to go along with the increase in the debt ceiling, the US bond rating will be downgraded anyway.

 

[gcubed]

They won't get the Bush tax cuts expiration.

Obama should employ the 14th Amendment solution, and deal with the impeachment that follows.

Take his case to the airwaves. Start using some of the wonderful comics posted in this thread that paint the Republicans like utter fools, in 3 panels.

Obama would need to win his re-election bid and i dont see how they would not be able to get the expiration. There is no vote needed to have them expire, they would just need to keep enough Dem's from jumping over to get above a veto proof majority

 

[tokkun]

Obama would need to win his re-election bid and i dont see how they would not be able to get the expiration. There is no vote needed to have them expire, they would just need to keep enough Dem's from jumping over to get above a veto proof majority

They got the extension last time.

 

[gcubed]

They got the extension last time.

Yes, they did, but under different circumstances. They still didnt have a veto proof majority and Obama wouldnt have another election to win. It doesnt need to be included in the bill, you can pull a Grover and just have them sign a pledge or some bullshit.

The advantage the dems have is that they dont need to do ANYTHING to expire the tax cuts.

 

[Deku]

My bet? The GOP at first.

But voters' memory banks rival those of goldfish, so they'll blame the guy at the top more and more as time goes on.

But don't most voters still blame bush for getting the economy to where it is?

There was a very recent poll on that. I think the 'voter teh dumb' hand wringing from the left is particularly true, or beneficial. It makes people take irrational positions because they're afraid of the voters for the wrong reasons.

 

[teruterubozu]

But don't most voters still blame bush for getting the economy to where it is?

There was a very recent poll on that. I think the 'voter teh dumb' hand wringing from the left is particularly true, or beneficial. It makes people take irrational positions because they're afraid of the voters for the wrong reasons.

Right, cuz Bush was at the top. When the presidential elections come, they will blame presidents.

 

[Cringe Humor]

Grr, I am so angry at the REPUBLICANTS. I call them REPUBLICANTS because they simply CAN'T do anything right for America, like unrestricted, federally-funded abortion and 70% taxes on the rich.


Fix the economy by taxing the corporations and the rich!

 

[Baraka in the White House]

But don't most voters still blame bush for getting the economy to where it is?

There was a very recent poll on that. I think the 'voter teh dumb' hand wringing from the left is particularly true, or beneficial. It makes people take irrational positions because they're afraid of the voters for the wrong reasons.

As a whole, the American electorate isn't dumb. Unless you consider most of the educated, logical ones staying home to be dumb.

 

[tokkun]

Yes, they did, but under different circumstances. They still didnt have a veto proof majority and Obama wouldnt have another election to win. It doesnt need to be included in the bill, you can pull a Grover and just have them sign a pledge or some bullshit.

The advantage the dems have is that they dont need to do ANYTHING to expire the tax cuts.

Obama doesn't want all of the tax cuts to expire, only those on the wealthy. Republicans said "it's all or nothing". That was what caused the extension last time, and there's no reason to think it will be any different in a year.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Grr, I am so angry at the REPUBLICANTS. I call them REPUBLICANTS because they simply CAN'T do anything right for America, like unrestricted, federally-funded abortion and 70% taxes on the rich.


Fix the economy by taxing the corporations and the rich!

Quick, now peel off!

 

[BotoxAgent]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/27/business/economy/lessons-from-the-us-economys-malaise.html?_r=2&ref=business

The bottom 50 percent of households, based on pretax income, make less combined than the top 1 percent. Only three decades ago, the bottom half made more than twice as much. The middle class has also received a much smaller tax cut in recent decades than the affluent.

 

[planar1280]

Are you ready GAF? Are you ready for this?!?


http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0711/The_next_meltdown_Gas_tax_renewal.html?showall

The next meltdown: Gas tax renewal

Looking beyond the horizon of the current insoluble legislative meltdown, a nervous Democrat pointed me yesterday to the next one: Most of the gas tax is set to expire on September 30.

An accountant's memo lists the taxes expiring that day, including:

-All but 4.3 cents-per-gallon of the taxes on highway gasoline, diesel fuel, kerosene, and alternative fuels (Secs. 4041(a) and 4081(d)(1))
-Reduced rate of tax on partially exempt methanol or ethanol fuel (Sec. 4041(m))
-Tax on retail sale of heavy highway vehicles (Sec. 4051(c))
-Tax on heavy truck tires (Sec. 4071(d))
-Annual use tax on heavy highway vehicles (Sec. 4481(f))

The House, no doubt, will view renewal as utterly routine, right...?

 

[Averon]

The advantage the dems have is that they dont need to do ANYTHING to expire the tax cuts.

Unless the GOP finds another piece of legislation critical for national security/the nation to function that will be used for hostage taking (see: debt ceiling and Russia nuclear treaty).

 

[empty vessel]

Obama doesn't want to do that, because there is a fear that without substantial cuts to go along with the increase in the debt ceiling, the US bond rating will be downgraded anyway.

I don't think this statement is accurate. There is no fear of that, not reasonable fear, anyway. And it'd work just a well to say that increasing the debt ceiling without substantial taxes on the wealthy will result in a downgraded rating. It's false both ways, but still.

 

[Cringe Humor]

Hey, does anyone here dislike the Republican Party as much as I do? WHY WON'T THEY JUST FUCKING DO WHAT OBAMA ASKS?!

 

[gcubed]

Unless the GOP finds another piece of legislation critical for national security/the nation to function that will be used for hostage taking (see: debt ceiling and Russia nuclear treaty).

leave me live in a fantasy world for 10 minutes.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Are you ready GAF? Are you ready for this?!?


http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0711/The_next_meltdown_Gas_tax_renewal.html?showall

At least the consequences of that battle going nowhere is just an increased deficit, and not the possible shutdown of the world's economy.

 

[tokkun]

I don't think this statement is accurate. There is no fear of that, not reasonable fear, anyway. And it'd work just a well to say that increasing the debt ceiling without substantial taxes on the wealthy will result in a downgraded rating. It's false both ways, but still.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/59997.html

S&P raised the threat of a downgrade July 14 by declaring that raising the debt limit alone might not be enough. It wanted to see an enforceable agreement to cut $4 trillion over 10 years to affirm the triple-A rating.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/59997.html#ixzz1TJiM0GfM

 

[Averon]

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_07/cbo_reid_plan_produces_huge_sa031123.php

CBO: Reid plan produces huge savings

The Congressional Budget Office disappointed House Republican leaders at a key moment yesterday, releasing an analysis that found Speaker John Boehner’s (R) budget proposal saves less than advertised. It sent Republican leaders scrambling, and delayed a vote in the House by at least a day.

The non-partisan CBO has also taken a look at the deal offered by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D), and come to a more favorable conclusion (favorable, that is, if one’s goal is significant debt reduction).

In the battle of budget scores, the Senate Democrats deficit reduction bill is the clear winner thus far over an alternative by Speaker John Boehner, which had to be pulled back from a floor Tuesday night for retooling.

The Congressional Budget Office released a report Wednesday morning that credits the Senate bill with reducing budget deficits by about $2.2 trillion through 2012, nearly three times the $850 billion credited to the Boehner bill on Tuesday.

Part of the disparity is owed to the fact that the House bill takes a two-step approach to raising the debt ceiling and therefore postpones actions on major entitlement savings until November and December. A second factor is the Senate’s willingness to take advantage of CBO baseline rules and claim large savings from winding down US military operations in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Will this change anything? NOPE

 

[Sirpopopop]

Obama would need to win his re-election bid and i dont see how they would not be able to get the expiration. There is no vote needed to have them expire, they would just need to keep enough Dem's from jumping over to get above a veto proof majority

As noted by others, there are lots of hostages that could be taken.

Not to mention telling the Republicans they need to remove that bargaining chip from the table is a non-starter.

 

[gcubed]

As noted by others, there are lots of hostages that could be taken.

Not to mention telling the Republicans they need to remove that bargaining chip from the table is a non-starter.

you dont need to tell them anything.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Ah, Health Care and Low Taxes...don't ya love em?

 

[Averon]

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...a-party-leader-calls-for-boehner-to-step-down

Tea Party leader calls for Boehner to step down

The leader of the conservative group Tea Party Nation, Judson Phillips, called on House Speaker John Boehner "to go" and be replaced by a "Tea Party Speaker of the House."

"Now Boehner is in the process of surrendering again. He is surrendering not to Obama, but to the status quo in Washington," Phillips wrote in a blogpost on Wednesday. "The House passed Cut, Cap and Balance, which would cut $111 billion from the budget. It would cap spending and set a good course for the future."

"Boehner has no real interest in solving the problems this country faces. He might have been a decent Speaker of the House in another era where he just needed to manage legislation for a Republican President" Phillips continues. "Unfortunately for us, Boehner is a big government Republican. He worships at the altar of massive spending. "

Delicious though this may be, the thought of a teabagger third in line for the presidency is frightening.

 

[Fatghost]

Is there no hope that rational republicans could vote with the democrats on this? The teabaggers are only 60 reps, right?

 

[TacticalFox88]

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...a-party-leader-calls-for-boehner-to-step-down

Tea Party leader calls for Boehner to step down



Delicious though this may be, the thought of a teabagger third in line for the presidency is frightening.

You know, if the Debt issue wasn't so fucking seriously, I'd laugh at the fact that the Repbulican party is tearing themselves apart.

 

[Mike M]

Hey, does anyone here dislike the Republican Party as much as I do? WHY WON'T THEY JUST FUCKING DO WHAT OBAMA ASKS?!

You'll go far here.

 

[planar1280]

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...a-party-leader-calls-for-boehner-to-step-down

Tea Party leader calls for Boehner to step down



Delicious though this may be, the thought of a teabagger third in line for the presidency is frightening.

Tea-Qaeda's Teahadi leader asks Boehner to step down.

 

[Cringe Humor]

Tea-Qaeda's Teahadi leader asks Boehner to step down.

Nazi-Racist-Tea-Party Facist Third-Reich leader asks for BONER-HEAD to step down.


Asshole Republicans.

 

[Wazzim]

I´d say the UK needs to take the US back, it´s obvious that they can´t do without their father anymore.

 

[empty vessel]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/59997.html

Here is the actual statement issued by S&P:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/14/market-ratings-creditwatch-us-idUSWNA372820110714

First, the S&P doesn't say what Politico heavily implies it says. Politico says:

S&P raised the threat of a downgrade July 14 by declaring that raising the debt limit alone might not be enough. It wanted to see an enforceable agreement to cut $4 trillion over 10 years to affirm the triple-A rating.

S&P says:

Standard & Poor's takes no position on the mix of spending and revenue measures that Congress and the Administration might agree on.

So, Politico's misleading language is what undoubtedly led you to post, "Obama doesn't want to do that, because there is a fear that without substantial cuts to go along with the increase in the debt ceiling, the US bond rating will be downgraded anyway."

Second, and all that said, S&P is still out of line, and we as a people should take this kind of interference in governmental affairs seriously.

The CreditWatch action reflects our view of two separate but related issues. The first issue is the continuing failure to raise the U.S. government debt ceiling so as to ensure that the government will be able to continue to make scheduled payments on its debt obligations. The second pertains to our current view of the likelihood that Congress and the Administration will agree upon a credible, medium-term fiscal consolidation plan in the foreseeable future.

The first point is legitimate, the second is illegitimate--particularly when the credits agency purports to give a specific number about how much fiscal consolidation the US should be implementing. This should be viewed by Americans as unwarranted influence in governmental affairs that ought, in my opinion, subject the company to potential revocation of its corporate charter. Nobody would be warranted in acceding to that kind of political blackmail, and these agencies should not be threatening our government and ourselves.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Nazi-Racist-Tea-Party Facist Third-Reich leader asks for BONER-HEAD to step down.


Asshole Republicans.

Wow. Such remarkable perspicacity.

 

[Fatghost]

The first point is legitimate, the second is illegitimate--particularly when the credits agency purports to give a specific number about how much fiscal consolidation the US should be implementing. This should be viewed by Americans as unwarranted influence in governmental affairs that ought, in my opinion, subject the company to potential revocation of its corporate charter. Nobody would be warranted in acceding to that kind of political blackmail, and these agencies should not be threatening our government and ourselves.

Ratings agencies have done this in the past to other countries. Canada was downgraded in the 1990s because of high deficits and uncertainty over Quebec sovereignty issues despite never being in danger of not paying bond principal and interest.

S&P and Moodys and Fitch are private agencies and don't answer to the US government or the American people.

Countries have a right to self determination but they don't have the right to self determination in a vacuum.

Perhaps if &P and the rest had been this proactive about Greece a decade ago Europe wouldn't be in the mess it is in now.