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[LM4sure]

When the CBO's projections favor any Democratic legislation that means they are liberally biased. So therefore it isn't true.

Thank fuck.

The CBO is worthless, rather they are biased or not.

This debt ceiling stuff is fascinating though. Boehner is in a tough position trying to find middle ground between the democrats and tea party. Can't wait to see how this all plays out over the next week.

 

[Deku]

Rand Paul was just interviewed on CBC Radio

- Tea party's big compromise was to raise the debt ceiling
- Obama is demagoguing by saying the US won't be able to pay its bills after Aug 2
- Tea party believes there will be enough revenues to delay default for a few weeks after the Aug 2 date
- Has no faith government will cut spending far in the future hence their position for big cuts and no tax revenues.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Actually, to do that we'd need to spread the wealth around, not the poverty. So close!

Why waste your time spreading the wealth? Just decimate it with poor policy and then everyone gets to start back near zero on equal footing.


In fact, it's pretty clear to me now, this has been the aim of the Democrats for years now. At least, that's the talking point I will run with to combat the equally brainless "Republicans are tanking the economy for 2012 hurrr" that seems so entrenched over here.

 

[Dude Abides]

Haha. Banhammer falleth.

I wonder which alt account Kosmo comes up with now.

Hey now. Kosmo's wrong about everything but he didn't act like a prick.

 

[Cyan]

CBO said Harry Reid's plan falls short of proposals

Eh, no surprise. I still don't understand why the Republicans keep demanding that the amount cut be the same as the amount the debt ceiling is raised. Is it just that it's easy to demand a large number that way? Or is it because it makes a nice soundbite? "Yeah, we need to 'offset' the increase in the ceiling with an equal number of cuts!"

 

[Jackson50]

Thank god that turd was flushed.

The mods are thankfully proactive in this thread. At least one mod is; thank you, Hitokage.

 

[planar1280]

Rand Paul was just interviewed on CBC Radio

- Tea party's big compromise was to raise the debt ceiling
- Obama is demagoguing by saying the US won't be able to pay its bills after Aug 2
- Tea party believes there will be enough revenues to delay default for a few weeks after the Aug 2 date
- Has no faith government will cut spending far in the future hence their position for big cuts and no tax revenues.

- Tea Party's has not made a single compromise.

- It is not Obama, it is all economic leaders and all world leaders.

- Even if you have enough revenue, why go to the point of no return?

- You are part of the government, make it work for the people Rand Paul

 

[Clevinger]

the equally brainless "Republicans are tanking the economy for 2012 hurrr" that seems so entrenched over here.

They're certainly not making any effort to help the economy, and are currently risking our credit rating, so what exactly are they doing?

 

[Ghost_Protocol]

Get your ass to Mars.

 

[airmangataosenai]

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2011/07/27/bonus_quote_of_the_day.html

"Get your ass in line."



Boner getting frustrated with the tea-faction. With the Tea-Party now calling for him to step down, I wonder if he'll just say "fuck it" and make a deal with the Dems just to screw them over. Unlikely, but a man can hope.

I look forward to the inevitable tell-all book where he distances himself from his disastrous policies and puts all the blame on the Tea Party nut jobs.

 

[Cyan]

They're certainly not making any effort to help the economy, and are currently risking our credit rating, so what exactly are they doing?

Cock-up before conspiracy! Or, in full Hanlon's Razor form: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

The answer is that they are stupid.

"They" meaning the Tea Party, not necessarily Republicans in general.

 

[Evlar]

Rand Paul was just interviewed on CBC Radio

- Tea party's big compromise was to raise the debt ceiling

"I'm gonna pull this pin and blow this shit to kingdom come! I swear I'll fucking do it!"

 

[mckmas8808]

How about an amendment writing out the Senate?

The country would be a lot better off.

Or maybe the Senate process. I like the Senate, just hate the process.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Or maybe the Senate process. I like the Senate, just hate the process.

I agree with this as well. The idea of a unicameral Congress does NOT sit well with me.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Or maybe the Senate process. I like the Senate, just hate the process.

Why do states with less people than a single neighborhood in a major state deserve the same amount of political influence as a state that represents the much larger portion of the country?

 

[GhaleonEB]

Or maybe the Senate process. I like the Senate, just hate the process.

Why do you like the Senate? It gives disproportionate representation to small states; North and South Dakota have the same pull as California and New York. I agree that a majority rule Senate would help, but the past few years has me more in a 'nuke it from orbit' mindset.

 

[Deku]

Why do states with less people than a single neighborhood in a major state deserve the same amount of political influence as a state that represents the much larger portion of the country?

Federal system requires it? It's certainly a superior compromise to the senate we have in Canada.

 

[Averon]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/60035.html#ixzz1TK9RX8HO

GOPers chant 'fire him' at Paul Teller

House Republicans on Wednesday morning were calling for the firing of the Republican Study Committee top staffer after he was caught sending e-mails to conservative groups urging them to pressure GOP lawmakers to vote against a debt proposal from Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio).

Infuriated by the e-mails from Paul Teller, the executive director of the RSC, members started chanting “Fire him, fire him!” while Teller stood silently at a closed-door meetings of House Republicans.

“It was an unbelievable moment,” said one GOP insider. “I’ve never seen anything like it.”

The GOP is in complete disarray. And it is of their own making. What did Boenher et al expect when they let the crazies take over the asylum?

 

[Chichikov]

Or is it because it makes a nice soundbite? "Yeah, we need to 'offset' the increase in the ceiling with an equal number of cuts!"

Pretty much.
Supposedly, if both numbers cancel each other out, our debt situation wont "get any worse".
The only problem is that it doesn't make sense, at all.

But since people don't seem to understand even the basic nature of public debt, you can away with such stupidity.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Federal system requires it? It's certainly a superior compromise to the senate we have in Canada.

it means that there are senators who represent gigantic pieces of land with basically no constituents.

The senate needs to keep the 100 member limit, but divide it between all states so each state has at least 1, but some states have 3 or 4 (Texas, New York, California, etc).

 

[Evlar]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/60035.html#ixzz1TK9RX8HO

GOPers chant 'fire him' at Paul Teller



The GOP is in complete disarray. And it is of their own making. What did Boenher et al expect when they let the crazies take over the asylum?

Jesus. Someone mentioned the Tea Party wave of 2010 being the political equivalent of washing the GOP out to a desert island populated by crazy people... If so, we're moving into "Lord of the Flies" territory.

 

[Fatghost]

So no one is doing anything about the debt ceiling at this point, right? Boehner is talking to his people, Reid is talking to his people, Obama is talking to his people, no one is talking to the other side, nothing is happening today?

 

[TacticalFox88]

Why do you like the Senate? It gives disproportionate representation to small states; North and South Dakota have the same pull as California and New York. I agree that a majority rule Senate would help, but the past few years has me more in a 'nuke it from orbit' mindset.

I think the House is supposed to counter to this. Although it makes sense in theory, it's not very helpful to the overall political process. That's why it was created in the first place.

 

[PhoenixDark]

edit: beaten; was posting the "fire him" story

So Reid's plan actually saves money (and uses the same spending gimmicks in the Ryan plan). Yet no one is talking about it apparently. Typical

 

[mckmas8808]

Rand Paul was just interviewed on CBC Radio

- Tea party's big compromise was to raise the debt ceiling
- Obama is demagoguing by saying the US won't be able to pay its bills after Aug 2
- Tea party believes there will be enough revenues to delay default for a few weeks after the Aug 2 date
- Has no faith government will cut spending far in the future hence their position for big cuts and no tax revenues.

To the bolded, you can't compromise to raise the debt ceiling. Like Empty Vessel said it's a yes or no question.

And his faith could go up for the government cutting future spending if he'd agree to $1 Trillion in tax increases. He'd get enough DEMs on board to sign on for that. But that would mean he'd have to trust the CBO.

 

[Evlar]

House Dems are giving up on the Congress and appealing to the White House to use the Constitutional option. From HuffPo:

WASHINGTON -- House Democratic leaders emerged from a Wednesday Caucus meeting with a message for President Barack Obama: Invoke the Constitution to resolve the debt standoff.

If Congress can't reach a deal on a long-term debt limit increase by August 2, Obama should "sign an executive order invoking the 14th Amendment," said Assistant Minority Leader James Cyburn (D-S.C.).

"I am convinced that whatever discussions about the legality of that can continue," Clyburn said. "But I believe that something like this will bring calm to the American people and will bring needed stability to our financial markets."

House Democratic Caucus Chairman John Larson (D-Conn.) acknowledged that Obama has previously expressed doubts about his legal authority to unilaterally raise the debt limit. But circumstances have changed, Larson said, and "we just want to let him know that his Caucus is prepared to stand behind him" if Congress fails to pass a long-term deal.

God damn, everyone's "all in".

 

[TacticalFox88]

House Dems are giving up on the Congress and appealing to the White House to use the Constitutional option. From HuffPo:
God damn, everyone's "all in".

Yeah, this is coming down to an executive order. Fuck. Just wow.

 

[gcubed]

I think eznark would be with me on this... i'd love to see Obama pull the constitution card to raise the debt ceiling. It would be glorious theater.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Yeah, this is coming down to an executive order. Fuck. Just wow.

The shit fit the right will have if this happens...

 

[MrGame&Watch]

Amending the constitution? We can't even pass a budget.

Perhaps amending was the wrong word. Maybe a coup d'état instead? Hey maybe if we default we'll be forced to change our entire system just like Iceland!

 

[Cyan]

House Dems are giving up on the Congress and appealing to the White House to use the Constitutional option. From HuffPo:
God damn, everyone's "all in".

Man, I hope it doesn't come to this. :/

 

[Clevinger]

House Dems are giving up on the Congress and appealing to the White House to use the Constitutional option. From HuffPo:
God damn, everyone's "all in".

Not gonna happen, unless it's some last minute shit. Obama's press secretary bluntly said as late as yesterday, I think, that it's not an option.

 

[HylianTom]

I have long suspected that Obama would be a one-termer, but does anyone see this stream of events as possible:

- Obama invokes the 14th
- the GOP unsuccessfully brings this to the Supreme Court
- the House GOP impeaches
- the Senate acquits
- the American people, at this point fed-up with the GOP, hand them their asses in 2012.

 

[Fatghost]

The shit fit the right will have if this happens...

The most important thing is making sure markets are looked after.

The retirement funds of every working American matter more than transient politics.

Of course, an executive order might not make a difference.

The tea party needs to be brought to heel.

 

[empty vessel]

Federal system requires it? It's certainly a superior compromise to the senate we have in Canada.

Federalism might have made sense at one time in history, given the lack of telecommunications. It makes no sense today and should be abandoned, at least in the US. It's just wasteful and pointless, and allows businesses to use economic blackmail to leverage one artificial jurisdiction against another. This is all to our detriment.

 

[Drakeon]

I have long suspected that Obama would be a one-termer, but does anyone see this stream of events as possible:

- Obama invokes the 14th
- the GOP unsuccessfully brings this to the Supreme Court
- the House GOP impeaches
- the Senate acquits
- the American people, at this point fed-up with the GOP, hand them their asses in 2012.

If it comes to that, the house republicans are going to be the only ones pissed at Obama for saving the economy. Well, maybe Fox News viewers too, but they're always pissed at him, so thats no change. If they try to impeach him if he does invoke the 14th amendment, it'll backfire on them in a big way I imagine.

 

[Plinko]

1. Watching the Tea Party screw over the GOP is hilarious. I can't wait for the GOP to backlash against them. You know it's coming. Why? Because who else would they vote for? In the general election, I have no doubt these people would still vote for the GOP candidate.

2. The GOP's plan all along was to get Obama to invoke the 14th amendment. That way, they can say he went around them, never compromised, and when the budget is still in the toilet they blame him. Invoking the 14th would be a huge mistake politically.

 

[LosDaddie]

My in-laws are coming in town on Friday. I was hoping the debt ceiling would've already been raised so I didn't have to hear the latest Fox News talking points at home.

Haha. Banhammer falleth.

I wonder which alt account Kosmo comes up with now.

Where did he finally get banned? In this thread?

 

[Deku]

House Dems are giving up on the Congress and appealing to the White House to use the Constitutional option. From HuffPo:
God damn, everyone's "all in".

So that opens Obama for impeachment ?

 

[TacticalFox88]

If it comes to that, the house republicans are going to be the only ones pissed at Obama for saving the economy. Well, maybe Fox News viewers too, but they're always pissed at him, so thats no change. If they try to impeach him if he does invoke the 14th amendment, it'll backfire on them in a big way I imagine.

Most people think that the debt ceiling needs to be raised only so Obama can "spend more", without truly recognizing how disastrous it'd be if we did default

 

[Clevinger]

So that opens Obama for impeachment ?

Yeah. The House would take a crack at it at least.

 

[JCX]

I have long suspected that Obama would be a one-termer, but does anyone see this stream of events as possible:

- Obama invokes the 14th
- the GOP unsuccessfully brings this to the Supreme Court
- the House GOP impeaches
- the Senate acquits
- the American people, at this point fed-up with the GOP, hand them their asses in 2012.

I see it more likely that he is impeached, and it is dragged on through the campaign next year. The result won't matter, since it will help the GOP control the message.

 

[mckmas8808]

Why do you like the Senate? It gives disproportionate representation to small states; North and South Dakota have the same pull as California and New York. I agree that a majority rule Senate would help, but the past few years has me more in a 'nuke it from orbit' mindset.

Damn this is going to sound like a stupid answer but, because it's been that way for many many years and it hasn't been a problem until now. I don't think it should be nuked just because the Tea party decides to act stupid.

Make it like the House and give it a majority rule with the +1 from the VP and we're good. It'll even make the Presidency more important if the Senate is close to 50-50.

 

[Measley]

I think eznark would be with me on this... i'd love to see Obama pull the constitution card to raise the debt ceiling. It would be glorious theater.

Fox News and talk radio would be EPIC.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Wow. The Tea Party nuts are now trying to replace John Boehner as speaker of the house. They don't want him to compromise at all. Talk about stupid. Both sides need to compromise. It's that simple. These nuts make me ashamed to call myself a conservative.

 

[Averon]

1. Watching the Tea Party screw over the GOP is hilarious. I can't wait for the GOP to backlash against them. You know it's coming. Why? Because who else would they vote for? In the general election, I have no doubt these people would still vote for the GOP candidate.

2. The GOP's plan all along was to get Obama to invoke the 14th amendment. That way, they can say he went around them, never compromised, and when the budget is still in the toilet they blame him. Invoking the 14th would be a huge mistake politically.

He may have to sacrifice his presidency to avoid economic Armageddon.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

The most important thing is making sure markets are looked after.

The retirement funds of every working American matter more than transient politics.

Of course, an executive order might not make a difference.

The tea party needs to be brought to heel.

Oh I agree completely, but if that happens then get ready for Obama is an Islamo-Fascist-Nazi-Commie-Kenyan-Interloper 2.0 becoming the narrative all over again.

 

[polyh3dron]

I think eznark would be with me on this... i'd love to see Obama pull the constitution card to raise the debt ceiling. It would be glorious theater.

Fuck yes, just for another Boehner "HELL NO YOU CAN'T" moment.

 

[dave is ok]

I have long suspected that Obama would be a one-termer, but does anyone see this stream of events as possible:

- Obama invokes the 14th
- the GOP unsuccessfully brings this to the Supreme Court
- the House GOP impeaches
- the Senate acquits
- the American People, outraged that the U.S. President is overstepping his bounds by passing legislation unilaterally, revolt starting Civil War II

More likely

 

[BotoxAgent]

Wow. The Tea Party nuts are now trying to replace John Boehner as speaker of the house. They don't want him to compromise at all. Talk about stupid. Both sides need to compromise. It's that simple. These nuts make me ashamed to call myself a conservative.

they are not conservative. They are just....crazy!!