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PoliGAF 2011: Of Weiners, Boehners, Santorum, and Teabags

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MalboroRed said:
While some subjectivity is there in selecting books, popular books are usually available, and people are free to pick which book to borrow and read, and the books aren't filtered and interpreted through a particular viewpoint, outside of the author and the reader, or course.
Does the fact that the content of some of these highly popular books is deeply offensive to some taxpayers matter to you at all? Harry Potter/Christian conservatives. Do you think taxpayers who elect not to use these publicly available facilities are being unjustly deprived of funds they could be using otherwise? Given the arguments you've been advancing with respect to broadcast media, it's not clear to me how you're not contradicting yourself.
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
PhoenixDark said:

Of all the things (RomneyCare, flip-flopping, mormon unelectability, the very Kerry-esque caviar-and-obliviousness about him), THIS is the thing that makes me question if Romney has what it takes. What a surpemely unprofessional and embarrassing moment. Worse, it's infinitely more dorky than anything Tim Yawnlenty has ever done.

If I'm a Republican, I'm cutting my losses now and betting on 2016. This field is terrible.
 
Dude Abides said:
So we need not be concerned about an informed public because they have ready access to the Da Vinci Code and Twilight?

Now that I think of it, why am I subsidizing people's terrible reading habits through public libraries? I'm off to join the tea party!

You don't need public libraries when you have corporate media! it's what the people want!
 
PantherLotus said:
Of all the things (RomneyCare, flip-flopping, mormon unelectability, the very Kerry-esque caviar-and-obliviousness about him), THIS is the thing that makes me question if Romney has what it takes. What a surpemely unprofessional and embarrassing moment. Worse, it's infinitely more dorky than anything Tim Yawnlenty has ever done.

If I'm a Republican, I'm cutting my losses now and betting on 2016. This field is terrible.

Oh, absolutely. There is no way America won't have four more years of Obama.
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
besada said:
And he gave you an answer, just not the one you wanted. He's not required to divulge his personal information to satisfy your curiosity, and literally nothing he said would make a difference, if you won't accept his word in the first place. You do it to badger him, because you don't like him, because he said shitty thing about you and being a lawyer. I've seen the whole stupid drama unfold.




I'm Mr. Oversharing, so just remember that you asked for it:

My father was born to a drunken mechanic, who found Jesus after getting his ear cut off and became a circuit rider until he had a stroke standing in a tent, praising Jesus. He was born with an extra bone in both legs and was tugged around by his twin sister in a red wagon until the Shriner's paid to have the extra bones removed. His first job was at 13, repairing appliances. He was entirely self-taught in the art of electronics repair, although his newly minted step-father repaired watches. They were, literally, dirt poor. They had floors of dirt, and my father grew up wearing someone else's clothes. He started working to help feed his family.

He studied hard and attended school, where he met my mother, a polio survivor, and the daughter of second generation Irish immigrants, one who taught school, and the other who worked for the railroads as in inspector. They fell in love and got married while she was going to nursing school, and he attended UT for architecture. Like many young couples, they started a family.

In 1964, the rubella epidemic was sweeping the nation. There were hundreds of thousands of miscarriages, and those babies born with rubella suffered terrible congenital failures. My brother was one of those babies. The high temperature burned up the nerves in his ears in eyes, leaving him legally deaf and blind. He was also born cyanotic, and with a lethal heart murmur. My father dropped out of college and took two jobs to help afford the necessary surgery. The March of Dimes, who made my brother their posterboy that year, helped out considerably.

My mother became a nurse, and my father became a bank teller. From there he became a loan officer, then a bank insurance executive, then a bank president. As bank President, he discovered that the shareholders were using bank money to make fraudulent and dangerous investments. You probably remember this part as the Savings and Loan scandal. In downhome Tennessee it played out with bricks through my father's windows, late night death threats, and a shot fired through his window as he was driving. This is why we came back to Texas, and also marks the beginning of my father's descent into serious alcoholism.

In Texas, he managed to secure a job with a bank because of a fluke. See, he'd been blacklisted. He couldn't work in the industry, because the people who owned the banks didn't like whistleblowers. But this bank, they needed someone who knew something about these new-fangled computers, and my father had overseen one of the first computer system retrofits for his bank in Tennessee. So he became their Data Processing manager. He also sank deeper and deeper into alcoholism. By the end, the bank couldn't keep him in place, and his career as a banker was over at the age of forty-five. He worked a few other jobs, mostly retail, which humiliated him, before giving up and becoming a stay at home husband. My mother, who'd spent the last thirty years having her heart ripped out on a daily basis in the NICU ward, made enough money that she could support them, since us kids had moved out.

So, that's what my father and mother did for a living. They were poor and they were rich and then they were sorta poor again until my father died of cancer.

I spent twenty years as an IT Security specialist before losing my mind. I made $70K my best year. I've also worked as a phone solicitor, programmer, a visual artist, a security guard, an editor, and a comic book writer. I'm currently unemployed, but when I return to work I'll be a paralegal for a family law/personal injury attorney.

Anything else? Any more simplistic questions you think are meaningful? I'm an open book, Manos.

Great post.
 

Snake

Member
PantherLotus said:
Of all the things (RomneyCare, flip-flopping, mormon unelectability, the very Kerry-esque caviar-and-obliviousness about him), THIS is the thing that makes me question if Romney has what it takes. What a surpemely unprofessional and embarrassing moment. Worse, it's infinitely more dorky than anything Tim Yawnlenty has ever done.

If I'm a Republican, I'm cutting my losses now and betting on 2016. This field is terrible.
Don't count Romney out yet. They're doing amazing things with androids these days, and once he gets an OS upgrade he might be ready for human humor.
 
Alpha-Bromega said:

"Springfield will have its first annual "Do What You Feel" Festival this Saturday, whenever you feel like showing up! It'll be a welcome change from our annual, "Do As We Say" Festival started by German settlers in 1946."
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
This kind of elitism is pretty frightening.
Not elitism, reality. You're telling us there isn't a large number of people out there who couldn't tell their ass from their elbow on any number of really important issues that directly affect them? Of course there are. And I wonder why that is....

What about The Guardian or The Economist?
Fox News et al is the McDonalds of news. Sure you can go to Trader Joe's and pick up a copy of the Economist, but unfortunately the average american gets his "news" in the most accessible and easy to consume form, and that ends up being Sean Hannity.

Who is to say that "public" news wouldn't lie or manipulate you? Marxist-socialist governments do it all the time through propaganda.
Again, your hypotheticals vs reality. A government funded news media is only as good as the government that's funding it. Thankfully, contrary to what shitballs-crazy right wingers like to think, we don't live in a communist dictatorship.


This discussion is worthless IMO, MarlboroRed is just on a differnent wavelength with his "Best News is what the people want News" line of thinking. It's pretty scary, and would only self-perpetuate the problem of the abysmal state of our news media that's crippling our democracy.
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
Hokuten said:
Don't count Romney out yet. They're doing amazing things with androids these days, and once he gets an OS upgrade might be ready for human humor.

data_laugh.old.jpg
 
besada said:
And he gave you an answer, just not the one you wanted. He's not required to divulge his personal information to satisfy your curiosity, and literally nothing he said would make a difference, if you won't accept his word in the first place. You do it to badger him, because you don't like him, because he said shitty thing about you and being a lawyer. I've seen the whole stupid drama unfold.
Then he has to admit his attempts say I was somehow of a higher social class than him is just pulling crap out of his ass.

All I ever wanted was how he thought I was of a higher social class and his parents jobs (and I said even then he was free to be very general for privacy reasons). That's it.


besada said:
I'm Mr. Oversharing, so just remember that you asked for it:
I'm an open book, Manos.
I responded about my job, that's all you had to do. Besides their is no way in hell I could write a personal narrative that well.

That said point taken and I'll stop bringing up the issue.
 
demon said:
This discussion is worthless IMO, MarlboroRed is just on a differnent wavelength with his "Best News is what the people want News" line of thinking. It's pretty scary, and would only self-perpetuate the problem of the abysmal state of our news media that's crippling our democracy.

Thank you demon!

I'm just having a hard time comprehending that people really believe this stuff, truly. But your arguments lost validity when the only possible conclusion to be drawn from a publicly funded news organization is communism
 
besada said:
And he gave you an answer, just not the one you wanted. He's not required to divulge his personal information to satisfy your curiosity, and literally nothing he said would make a difference, if you won't accept his word in the first place. You do it to badger him, because you don't like him, because he said shitty thing about you and being a lawyer. I've seen the whole stupid drama unfold.




I'm Mr. Oversharing, so just remember that you asked for it:

My father was born to a drunken mechanic, who found Jesus after getting his ear cut off and became a circuit rider until he had a stroke standing in a tent, praising Jesus. He was born with an extra bone in both legs and was tugged around by his twin sister in a red wagon until the Shriner's paid to have the extra bones removed. His first job was at 13, repairing appliances. He was entirely self-taught in the art of electronics repair, although his newly minted step-father repaired watches. They were, literally, dirt poor. They had floors of dirt, and my father grew up wearing someone else's clothes. He started working to help feed his family.

He studied hard and attended school, where he met my mother, a polio survivor, and the daughter of second generation Irish immigrants, one who taught school, and the other who worked for the railroads as in inspector. They fell in love and got married while she was going to nursing school, and he attended UT for architecture. Like many young couples, they started a family.

In 1964, the rubella epidemic was sweeping the nation. There were hundreds of thousands of miscarriages, and those babies born with rubella suffered terrible congenital failures. My brother was one of those babies. The high temperature burned up the nerves in his ears in eyes, leaving him legally deaf and blind. He was also born cyanotic, and with a lethal heart murmur. My father dropped out of college and took two jobs to help afford the necessary surgery. The March of Dimes, who made my brother their posterboy that year, helped out considerably.

My mother became a nurse, and my father became a bank teller. From there he became a loan officer, then a bank insurance executive, then a bank president. As bank President, he discovered that the shareholders were using bank money to make fraudulent and dangerous investments. You probably remember this part as the Savings and Loan scandal. In downhome Tennessee it played out with bricks through my father's windows, late night death threats, and a shot fired through his window as he was driving. This is why we came back to Texas, and also marks the beginning of my father's descent into serious alcoholism.

In Texas, he managed to secure a job with a bank because of a fluke. See, he'd been blacklisted. He couldn't work in the industry, because the people who owned the banks didn't like whistleblowers. But this bank, they needed someone who knew something about these new-fangled computers, and my father had overseen one of the first computer system retrofits for his bank in Tennessee. So he became their Data Processing manager. He also sank deeper and deeper into alcoholism. By the end, the bank couldn't keep him in place, and his career as a banker was over at the age of forty-five. He worked a few other jobs, mostly retail, which humiliated him, before giving up and becoming a stay at home husband. My mother, who'd spent the last thirty years having her heart ripped out on a daily basis in the NICU ward, made enough money that she could support them, since us kids had moved out.

So, that's what my father and mother did for a living. They were poor and they were rich and then they were sorta poor again until my father died of cancer.

I spent twenty years as an IT Security specialist before losing my mind. I made $70K my best year. I've also worked as a phone solicitor, programmer, a visual artist, a security guard, an editor, and a comic book writer. I'm currently unemployed, but when I return to work I'll be a paralegal for a family law/personal injury attorney.

Anything else? Any more simplistic questions you think are meaningful? I'm an open book, Manos.
Wow. Puts thing perspective for me. Guess I have nothing to complain about.
 

Opiate

Member
Alpha-Bromega said:

Yes it is. We just aren't a Democracy, which was a great idea.

While the electoral college needs dramatic overhaul, it is a fantastic symbol of the founding father's fear of precisely that: a direct democracy, where the people get what they want.

The people -- sometimes the majority, sometimes a supermajority -- often come to horrible consensus. Sometimes, that terrible consensus can be obvious and glaring, like slavery or racism. Sometimes, those terrible choices can be much more subtle, like a general anti-science bent that can't be measured or does not have a physical manifestation. Anti-scientific thinking doesn't produce an obvious symbol like "I own a black man in chains."
 
Opiate said:
Yes it is. We just aren't a Democracy, which was a great idea.

While the electoral college needs dramatic overhaul, it is a fantastic symbol of the founding father's fear of precisely that: a direct democracy, where the people get what they want.

I'd say it's a bit more complicated than simply giving the majority whatever they want on a whim.

I was going to go on a tangent of "b-b-b-but we are a representative republic" but I didn't feel it was necessary.
 
PantherLotus said:
Of all the things (RomneyCare, flip-flopping, mormon unelectability, the very Kerry-esque caviar-and-obliviousness about him), THIS is the thing that makes me question if Romney has what it takes. What a surpemely unprofessional and embarrassing moment. Worse, it's infinitely more dorky than anything Tim Yawnlenty has ever done.

If I'm a Republican, I'm cutting my losses now and betting on 2016. This field is terrible.

Obama is nearly as socially awkward though; yet Obama looks and acts presidential, which also can be said of Romney. People aren't worried about extra curricular stuff when the economy is bad.

Romney is a serious threat
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
1. I know it's out of fashion, but there is a sect of society that subscribes to the idyllic citizen journalist, the only-the-truth-matters journalist. You know, not the "give the people what they want" journalist. I am one of those people, which is why I like NPR.

2. PBS is what, the Jim Leher news hour and the weekly left/right nonsense on Sunday? Who cares what PBS is doing except for providing a higher cultural entertainment than available elsewhere. There is a case to be made for public support of higher culture, and I also subscribe to the belief that these cultural landmarks and services benefit society and are well worth the cost.

3. MarlboroRed has some very serious issues. He's clearly a product of extremely conservative media that has been telling him to fear main stream media (the term itself if laughable), to fear culture (opera, orchestra, shakespeare, anyone?), THE ARTS, and he's finally cognitively dissonanced himself (oh yeah I just verb'd that bitch) into believing that all news sources are biased.

4. This discussion is getting very tired very quickly. We get that you nutjobs think PBS is making kids gay and that NPR is secretly convincing us to collect unemployment while plotting a socialist overthrow of other red herrings I can think of here.

###

What I'd really like to know is your measure of the world around you. Do you believe the Iraq War was a mistake? Do you believe Osama Bin Laden is dead? Do you believe in evolution? global warming? Do you believe that gender and sexuality exist on spectrums and are not either/or switches? Do you believe trickle-down economics works? Do you believe in military intervention?

Tell me about what you believe. I'll tell you whether or not you're being served well by your love of corporate-controlled media.
 

besada

Banned
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Then he has to admit his attempts say I was somehow of a higher social class than him is just pulling crap out of his ass.

All I ever wanted was how he thought I was of a higher social class and his parents jobs (and I said even then he was free to be very general for privacy reasons). That's it.

He doesn't have to do anything. If you want to continue to look like creepy obsessed jerk, and have people question you like I'm doing now, then keep doing what you're doing. It's making you look bad, not him.

You still haven't told me how much you make, by the way. I asked you, and provided my salary. By your rationale I now have the right to follow you around asking how much you make as if it had anything to do with anything. So, let's hear it. How much exactly do you make?
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
PhoenixDark said:
Obama is nearly as socially awkward though; yet Obama looks and acts presidential, which also can be said of Romney. People aren't worried about extra curricular stuff when the economy is bad.

Romney is a serious threat
Have you seen that "who let the dogs out " video of Romney with the black folks?
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
PhoenixDark said:
Obama is nearly as socially awkward though; yet Obama looks and acts presidential, which also can be said of Romney. People aren't worried about extra curricular stuff when the economy is bad.

Romney is a serious threat

Puh-leeeease. Obama can be dorky, I guess. But surely you're forgetting about Obama the smooth, Obama the Regulator. (mount up!). Obama the "is she ok? let's get her a drink. Some one help that lady in the back. Hey, here's my water bottle."

He wouldn't be caught dead acting like a buffoon that Romney was just caught acting like. I question what you think Socially Akward means, honestly. Maybe I'm forgetting something.
 
Opiate said:
Yes it is. We just aren't a Democracy, which was a great idea.

While the electoral college needs dramatic overhaul, it is a fantastic symbol of the founding father's fear of precisely that: a direct democracy, where the people get what they want.

The people -- sometimes the majority, sometimes a supermajority -- often come to horrible consensus. Sometimes, that terrible consensus can be obvious and glaring, like slavery or racism. Sometimes, those terrible choices can be much more subtle, like a general anti-science bent that can't be measured or does not have a physical manifestation. Anti-scientific thinking doesn't produce an obvious symbol like "I own a black man in chains."

The majority of people nowadays understand that slavery and racism are terrible things, it's obvious that faith and science are very difficult, if not impossible, to reconcile. Most people understand that when they die their body would decompose, but do people really want to believe there's absolutely nothing after death? It's a very scary proposition, I don't think anyone, even someone from a science background, is fully prepared for that inevitability.
 
Nobody 'wants' to hear that the global economic system is kind of in shambles, that nearly the entire middle east is in a collective uprising after their sick governments brutally killed and jailed many dissidents who want democracy, that Greece is quite literally on the verge of falling apart, that every day more people (not just Americans) are killed in countless foreign wars over trivialities, that our education system is a criminally underfunded joke and a threat to our future prosperity as a nation, inequality in the U.S. is higher than at almost any other time ever,

NOPE

What 'the people' want are vague tirades against the 'socialist' government, more news on the Weiner scandal, The Royal Wedding, and lots and lots of anti gay rants and evengalism. Pinheads! No Spin Zone here these are the facts!


According to MarlboroRed, this is true democracy
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
MalboroRed said:
The majority of people nowadays understand that slavery and racism are terrible things, it's obvious that faith and science are very difficult, if not impossible, to reconcile. Most people understand that when they die their body would decompose, but do people really want to believe there's absolutely nothing after death? It's a very scary proposition, I don't think anyone, even someone from a science background, is fully prepared for that inevitability.
Many people are OK with that because it happens to animals all the time.
 
PantherLotus said:
Puh-leeeease. Obama can be dorky, I guess. But surely you're forgetting about Obama the smooth, Obama the Regulator. (mount up!). Obama the "is she ok? let's get her a drink. Some one help that lady in the back. Hey, here's my water bottle."

He wouldn't be caught dead acting like a buffoon that Romney was just caught acting like. I question what you think Socially Akward means, honestly. Maybe I'm forgetting something.

It's weird how cool and awesome Obama is. It's like we never see any side of him that isn't awesome.
 
BigPickZel said:
Oh, absolutely. There is no way America won't have four more years of Obama.
I think it is 50/50 between Romney & Obama. If things are as they are today, Obama wins (as the polls show).

But I think the economy could easily backslide allowing the GOP candidate to win (as long as he/she is not a loon/loser).

Euro collapse, continued unemployment, Chinese economic collapse, mid-East meltdown, Afghanistan spinning out of control . . . So many bad things can happen between now & Nov. 2012. Not much good can happen. There seem to be black swans . . . but no white swans.


What white swans could happen? Giant oil discovery, alternative energy break-through, new silicon-valley or biotech break-through, Israel/Palestine peace deal (yeah, right), etc. ?
 
Alpha-Bromega said:
Nobody 'wants' to hear that the global economic system is kind of in shambles, that nearly the entire middle east is in a collective uprising after their sick governments brutally killed and jailed many dissidents who want democracy, that Greece is quite literally on the verge of falling apart, that every day more people (not just Americans) are killed in countless foreign wars over trivialities, that our education system is a criminally underfunded joke and a threat to our future prosperity as a nation, inequality in the U.S. is higher than at almost any other time ever,

NOPE

What 'the people' want are vague tirades against the 'socialist' government, more news on the Weiner scandal, The Royal Wedding, and lots and lots of anti gay rants and evengalism. Pinheads! No Spin Zone here these are the facts!


According to MarlboroRed, this is true democracy

Right, we should make people listen to what people like you decide is true news. There's no way that plan could fail. Stupid people, what a bunch of dummies.
 
MalboroRed said:
The majority of people nowadays understand that slavery and racism are terrible things, it's obvious that faith and science are very difficult, if not impossible, to reconcile. Most people understand that when they die their body would decompose, but do people really want to believe there's absolutely nothing after death? It's a very scary proposition, I don't think anyone, even someone from a science background, is fully prepared for that inevitability.

Ok let's put it like this: Did the white plantation owners think that slavery and racism were terrible things? oh they didn't? do you think perchance that there were newspapers and pamphlets which legitimated the practice of keeping slaves? owned or endorsed by plantation owners you say? my god! You mean they were for profit 'news' articles which reinforced an ideology and way of life?
 
speculawyer said:
I think it is 50/50 between Romney & Obama. If things are as they are today, Obama wins (as the polls show).

But I think the economy could easily backslide allowing the GOP candidate to win (as long as he/she is not a loon/loser).

Euro collapse, continued unemployment, Chinese collapse, mid-East meltdown, Afghanistan spinning out of control . . . So many bad things can happen between now & Nov. 2012. Not much good can happen. There seem to be black swans . . . but no white swans.


What white swans could happen? Giant oil discovery, alternative energy break-through, new silicon-valley or biotech break-through, Israel/Palestine peace deal (yeah, right), etc. ?
I'm curious of how you think that can happen in the next 16 months.
 
Alpha-Bromega said:
Ok let's put it like this: Did the white plantation owners think that slavery and racism were terrible things? oh they didn't? do you think perchance that there were newspapers and pamphlets which legitimated the practice of keeping slaves? owned or endorsed by plantation owners you say? my god! You mean they were for profit 'news' articles which reinforced an ideology and why of life? MY LORD

Thankfully the large, government-controlled abolition movement was appropriated and... wait a minute...
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
How North Dakota outpaced the U.S. economy
By Annalyn Censky @CNNMoney June 16, 2011: 9:56 AM ET


chart-growing-states.top.gif




NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- The American economy grew at a snail's pace of 2.9% last year, but some surprising states did better (and worse) than the overall economy.
A recent report from the Commerce Department paints a new picture of how economic growth looked across all 50 states last year.

Interestingly, both the fastest and slowest growing states were in the same neck of the woods.
North Dakota wins the bragging rights for growing the most last year, up 7.1% from in 2009. Just a stone's throw away, Wyoming actually slumped, leading the nation's slowest states.
But oil drilling was the key driver behind both North Dakota's success and Wyoming's slump. Why?

Historically, North Dakota's mining sector -- which includes oil -- was quite small compared to its overall economy. That has started to change recently due to new technology that makes it possible to tap billions of barrels of oil in a remote area of the state known as Bakken.

U.S. oil demand was relatively flat last year -- but that didn't matter for North Dakota. Mining surged 59% in the state, mainly because businesses there were working to build up the infrastructure to support this still young industry in Bakken.
"North Dakota has a lot of untapped shale oil, and developing that field may have attracted a lot of investment and a lot of employment into the state," said Luke Popovich, a spokesman for the National Mining Association.


But in Wyoming the case was much different. Mining was already a well established part of the economy, accounting for roughly a third of the entire state's gross domestic product. When U.S. energy demand and oil prices barely picked up in 2010, Wyoming's GDP was hurt the most.

10 fastest growing states

"When the economy is just flat or just limping along, you can expect a state like Wyoming to really take it hard," Popovich said.

That said, he expects both North Dakota and Wyoming to grow significantly thanks to higher energy prices so far in 2011. Granted, both states are among the country's smallest in terms of GDP, so they can be more easily influenced by one sector than many of the larger states.

Among the other 48 states, one of the other large themes affecting growth included the continued housing slump - which was most pronounced in Nevada and Arizona.

10 slowest growing states

Meanwhile, some states -- including Indiana, Massachusetts and Oregon -- enjoyed a manufacturing comeback for autos, high-tech equipment and machinery.
But states like Delaware, which rely more on manufacturing of so-called soft goods like plastic, struggled due to weak consumer demand and tough competition from producers overseas


##################

To bad we can't build our way to a bigger recovery huh guys? It just seems like key investments in the right areas all over the country could get us back to a less than 6% unemployment rate.

Maybe after this deficit talk is over, we can get back to investing into this country again.
 

Opiate

Member
MalboroRed said:
The majority of people nowadays understand that slavery and racism are terrible things,

Precisely because our government dragged them kicking and screaming in to it. Sometimes, the government accomplished this through violence, like in the civil war. Sometimes this was accomplished through legisliation, like the civil rights act. Regardless, many people needed to be forced to give up their racist tendencies, because huge swathes of the country weren't doing it alone. Which is the point: left to their own devices, people often make terrible decisions. Often, large groups of people do so collectively.
 
Opiate said:
Precisely because our government dragged them kicking and screaming in to it. Sometimes, the government accomplished this through violence, like in the civil war. Sometimes this was accomplished through legisliation, like the civil rights act. Regardless, many people needed to be forced to give up their racist tendencies, because huge swathes of the country weren't doing it alone. Which is the point: left to their own devices, people often make terrible decisions. Often, large groups of people do so collectively.

It was nice of the government to be against slavery after being for it for so long. Hey, people make mistakes, no biggie.
 
BigPickZel said:
Thankfully the large, government-controlled abolition movement was appropriated and... wait a minute...

You are missing the point entirely. It's a frame of how what people want (entertainment or reinforcement of belief system, fear mongering is fun too) can be detrimental to the functioning of democracy.
 

Opiate

Member
BigPickZel said:
It was nice of the government to be against slavery after being for it for so long. Hey, people make mistakes, no biggie.

I don't think we're saying government is perfect, either. They were ahead of the curve, relative to the general populace, but not perfect.

Similarly, I doubt anyone is legitimately arguing that NPR is perfect and has no bias at all and should be heralded as the second coming. Just that it's better than the alternative of letting people choose their own information, as seems demonstratably true, to me.
 
TacticalFox88 said:
I'm curious of how you think that can happen in the next 16 months.
I don't. That was a typo . . . I meant Chinese economic collapse. There is a lot of talk about a really big real estate bubble in China. I don't think it would be a big collapse though since the chinese land buyers tend not to be so leveraged.
 
Alpha-Bromega said:
Nobody 'wants' to hear that the global economic system is kind of in shambles, that nearly the entire middle east is in a collective uprising after their sick governments brutally killed and jailed many dissidents who want democracy, that Greece is quite literally on the verge of falling apart, that every day more people (not just Americans) are killed in countless foreign wars over trivialities, that our education system is a criminally underfunded joke and a threat to our future prosperity as a nation, inequality in the U.S. is higher than at almost any other time ever,

NOPE

What 'the people' want are vague tirades against the 'socialist' government, more news on the Weiner scandal, The Royal Wedding, and lots and lots of anti gay rants and evengalism. Pinheads! No Spin Zone here these are the facts!


According to MarlboroRed, this is true democracy

But they DO want to hear about the american economy, they DO want to know what Obama is planning to do about it, not sure if people care when Greece is going to go bankrupt or what's happening in Syria or whatnot.

You got to admit the whole Weiner scandal was incredibly entertaining, couldn't happen to a nicer guy. I thought Kate Middleton is kind of hot.

Navy Seals 1
Bin Laden 0

Getting informed while being entertained at the same time, that's a powerful combination.
 

Jeels

Member
How anyone could view NPR as a propaganda wing is beyond me. It is some of the most impartial, delightful radio I've listened to. Highly educational and very polite discussion.
 
MalboroRed said:
The majority of people nowadays understand that slavery and racism are terrible things,
And that's my point. It takes leaders to realize problems. If we had elected diddly doo-hahs as leaders during the abolitionist or civil rights era who only fulfilled the "values" of their constituents, those things would have perpetuated. This is why it takes a leader to make an informed judgment on a matter that could potentially divide the constituency on the short run, but is still better for them in the long run. Did it cost those leaders politically? Heck yeah it did. Democrats lost the entire south. Had the Democrats simply voted for their constituents' values, like you purport that Representatives always do, who knows what would have happened?
 

besada

Banned
cartoon_soldier said:
Anybody following the cluster that Netroots Nation is this year? Or at least seems like from the few news stories I have read

I read about the LGBT wing giving the Prez hell, but this time they responded with a little more aplomb than last.
 

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
speculawyer said:
I don't. That was a typo . . . I meant Chinese economic collapse. There is a lot of talk about a really big real estate bubble in China. I don't think it would be a big collapse though since the chinese land buyers tend not to be so leveraged.
there also won't be a large collapse since Chinese technocrats have shown themselves to be very nimble with their economic policies. they aren't beholden to special interest groups or daft ideological counterarguments against state-intervention.
 
zero_suit said:
What is she saying?
She said that she was in the room when Obama was asked three times about his medicare plan and each of the time Obama said he didn't have one. I think she straight up lies.
 
MalboroRed said:
But they DO want to hear about the american economy, they DO want to know what Obama is planning to do about it, not sure if people care when Greece is going to go bankrupt or what's happening in Syria or whatnot.

You got to admit the whole Weiner scandal was incredibly entertaining, couldn't happen to a nicer guy. I thought Kate Middleton is kind of hot.

Navy Seals 1
Bin Laden 0

Getting informed while being entertained at the same time, that's a powerful combination.

All packaged in a tight ideological narrative which uses fear and unfounded conclusions to push public opinion in a guided direction. That's not news, that's literally propaganda.

tricking yourself that you are being 'informed' and being entertained while that happens? a scary combination.
 
speculawyer said:
I don't. That was a typo . . . I meant Chinese economic collapse. There is a lot of talk about a really big real estate bubble in China. I don't think it would be a big collapse though since the chinese land buyers tend not to be so leveraged.

It's less about being leveraged and more about putting up a shit ton of buildings with low to zero occupancy, but then their economy is based on funny money in the first place, the farming country in the middle is still dirt poor and completely illiterate while the people in the city hunger for wealth while the cultural revolution has long wiped away the last semblance of traditional morality (hair substituting for seaweed, tempered baby formula, etc). The whole thing might blow up, or nothing might happen at all.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
RustyNails said:
She said that she was in the room when Obama was asked three times about his medicare plan and each of the time Obama said he didn't have one. I think she straight up lies.
Didn't Obama pass a Medicare plan last year?
 
Jeels said:
How anyone could view NPR as a propaganda wing is beyond me. It is some of the most impartial, delightful radio I've listened to. Highly educational and very polite discussion.
I can see people calling many of the fringe programs like "Living on Earth" or various local talk shows as propaganda. But the main line 'Morning Edition' and 'All Things Considered' . . . that is just basic news and presented in a very very neutral manner
 
Alpha-Bromega said:
All packaged in a tight ideological narrative which uses fear and unfounded conclusions to push public opinion in a guided direction. That's not news, that's literally propaganda.

tricking yourself that you are being 'informed' and being entertained while that happens? a scary combination.

It's called opinion programming, people watch the evening portion of FNC for the commentators and conservative opinions. People watch the 6-8 time-slot for news, it's the same way on CNN, you're not getting real news from Elliot Spitzer or that british guy, obviously.
 
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