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[RustyNails]

All packaged in a tight ideological narrative which uses fear and unfounded conclusions to push public opinion in a guided direction. That's not news, that's literally propaganda.

tricking yourself that you are being 'informed' and being entertained while that happens? a scary combination.

What's more sad is that people don't want to listen to facts unless they are entertained alongside. Truly incredible state of affairs. Maybe MarlboroRed will be ok with PBS if couple of clowns drove unicycles in circles in the background as Jim Lehrer delivers the day's news with a straight face.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

It's called opinion programming, people watch the evening portion of FNC for the commentators and conservative opinions. People watch the 6-8 time-slot for news, it's the same way on CNN, you're not getting real news from Elliot Spitzer or that british guy, obviously.

Obviously? obviously?
No, each network is structured in a way that the news, the opinions, the early morning talk shows all fit in a larger narrative. the 'news' is just one component of that

 

[scorcho]

It's less about being leveraged and more about putting up a shit ton of buildings with low to zero occupancy, but then their economy is based on funny money in the first place, the farming country in the middle is still dirt poor and completely illiterate while the people in the city hunger for wealth while the cultural revolution has long wiped away the last semblance of traditional morality (hair substituting for seaweed, tempered baby formula, etc). The whole thing might blow up, or nothing might happen at all.

ah, but where you see a lack of morality, i see the lack of a draconian government where people aren't told what to eat...

 

[demon]

ah, but where you see a lack of morality, i see the lack of a draconian government where people aren't told what to eat...

lol

 

[MalboroRed]

And that's my point. It takes leaders to realize problems. If we had elected diddly doo-hahs as leaders during the abolitionist or civil rights era who only fulfilled the "values" of their constituents, those things would have perpetuated. This is why it takes a leader to make an informed judgment on a matter that could potentially divide the constituency on the short run, but is still better for them in the long run. Did it cost those leaders politically? Heck yeah it did. Democrats lost the entire south. Had the Democrats simply voted for their constituents' values, like you purport that Representatives always do, who knows what would have happened?

PEOPLE realize problems, it's not like people are absolutely stupid and would have continued slavery had they not had the right leaders, people VOTED for the right leader, namely Lincoln, a republican. Give the american people some credit.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

I read about the LGBT wing giving the Prez hell, but this time they responded with a little more aplomb than last.

To me it just sounded like a bunch of whiny ass liberals not happy with anything.

 

[MalboroRed]

ah, but where you see a lack of morality, i see the lack of a draconian government where people aren't told what to eat...

The draconian government wiped all the moral values (and like a billion people) the fuck away and "re-educated" the people via a little something called the cultural revolution.

 

[Jeels]

PEOPLE realize problems, it's not like people are absolutely stupid and would have continued slavery had they not had the right leaders, people VOTED for the right leader, namely Lincoln, a republican. Give the american people some credit.

Lincoln was not voted in for his stance on slavery.

 

[RustyNails]

PEOPLE realize problems, it's not like people are absolutely stupid and would have continued slavery had they not had the right leaders, people VOTED for the right leader, namely Lincoln, a republican. Give the american people some credit.

Which Americans, the northern traitor unionists or the confederates?

 

[scorcho]

indeed. whenever i talk to my Chinese friends (or as I call them, friends), i lament their lack of morals.

Why, i implore, do you lack any moral foundation? They point to a picture of Mao hanging off their neck, then stuff Borax into their mouths.

 

[speculawyer]

It's less about being leveraged and more about putting up a shit ton of buildings with low to zero occupancy,.

Buildings with zero occupancy (but small loans) are not really a problem . . . that is just a rich guy buying stupid shit and happens all over with boats, planes, travel, toys, etc. The downside there is a the reduced wealth effect as the person who thought they were wealthy spends less.

Buildings that are worth less than the loans on them is a real problem. Building owners default, banks stuck with bad loans, banks go bankrupt, government bail-outs, currency deflation, etc . . . a whole chain of disaster happens.

 

[ViperVisor]

How anyone could view NPR as a propaganda wing is beyond me. It is some of the most impartial, delightful radio I've listened to. Highly educational and very polite discussion.

But you aren't a professor at UCLA who has a book coming out. #473

Says NPR Morning Edition liberal bias is equivalent to the Washington Times conservative bias.

 

[scorcho]

Buildings with zero occupancy (but small loans) are not really a problem . . . that is just a rich guy buying stupid shit and happens all over with boats, planes, travel, toys, etc. The downside there is a the reduced wealth effect as the person who thought they were wealthy spends less.

Buildings that are worth less than the loans on them is a real problem. Building owners default, banks stuck with bad loans, banks go bankrupt, government bail-outs, currency deflation, etc . . . a whole chain of disaster happens.

growing expectations for greater democratic privileges is more likely to rock China more than an economic collapse.

 

[Cyan]

PEOPLE realize problems, it's not like people are absolutely stupid and would have continued slavery had they not had the right leaders, people VOTED for the right leader, namely Lincoln, a republican. Give the american people some credit.

The majority didn't vote for him. Less than 40% did.

And his election was so unpopular in the South, it led to the secession of seven states, and ultimately the Civil War.

Surely his constituents didn't want civil war?

 

[BigPickZel]

The majority didn't vote for him. Less than 40% did.

And his election was so unpopular in the South, it led to the secession of seven states, and ultimately the Civil War.

Surely his constituents didn't want civil war?

What's so civil about war, anywa--*is hauled away by IP lawyers*

 

[RustyNails]

How anyone could view NPR as a propaganda wing is beyond me. It is some of the most impartial, delightful radio I've listened to. Highly educational and very polite discussion.

That's the problem right there. There is anti-education/anti-intellectual/anti-anything where you learn strain in America and it's reeking from the extreme right conservative buttcrack. We don't want no learnin. We go by what our guts tell us! And polite? More like boring. We want a shouting match between people that is the verbal equivalent of a WWE match.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

It's like every point MarlboroRed states is a non sequitur but must run on some internal logic.


I usually don't bring up the anti-intellectual undertone of American culture, it's almost a cop out in my mind, but it's true in regards to the way the right conducts its politicking and propaganda

 

[BigPickZel]

It's like every point MarlboroRed states is a non sequitur but must run on some internal logic.


I usually don't bring up the anti-intellectual undertone of American culture, it's almost a cop out in my mind, but it's true

The best way to remedy this is to spend a lot of money on intelligent programs people will just ignore anyway.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Puh-leeeease. Obama can be dorky, I guess. But surely you're forgetting about Obama the smooth, Obama the Regulator. (mount up!). Obama the "is she ok? let's get her a drink. Some one help that lady in the back. Hey, here's my water bottle."

He wouldn't be caught dead acting like a buffoon that Romney was just caught acting like. I question what you think Socially Akward means, honestly. Maybe I'm forgetting something.

Can be dorky? He's the definition of dorky, outside of being into sports. He's also not the most personable president, given his aloof nature.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

The best way to remedy this is to spend a lot of money on intelligent programs people will just ignore anyway.

A self fulfilling prophecy if you don't. people are products of their environment

 

[speculawyer]

growing expectations for greater democratic privileges is more likely to rock China more than an economic collapse.

That could help us. Raise wages in China so that some jobs start staying here. Granted things will cost a bit more, but I think we need the jobs more than we need the cheap shit.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Eventually, the Chinese government will have to give in to Democracy. I don't even think we can call them "Communists" anymore.

 

[RustyNails]

That could help us. Raise wages in China so that some jobs start staying here. Granted things will cost a bit more, but I think we need the jobs more than we need the cheap shit.

It is already having an effect in India, given that India is much more receptive of democratic rights and civil activism than China is. The main reason is that it's costing us more to outsource now.

Click on the image below for the full infographic:

 

[scorcho]

Interesting - Increasing numbers of Americans are unenthusiastic for 'free-markets' - http://www.globescan.com/news_archives/radar10w2_free_market/

When GlobeScan began tracking views in 2002, four in five Americans (80%) saw the free market as the best economic system for the future—the highest level of support among tracking countries. Support started to fall away in the following years and recovered slightly after the financial crisis in 2007/8, but has plummeted since 2009, falling 15 points in a year so that fewer than three in five (59%) now see free market capitalism as the best system for the future.

GlobeScan Chairman Doug Miller commented: “America is the last place we would have expected to see such a sharp drop in trust in the free enterprise system. This is not good news for business.”

seems kinda obvious with a massive recession, widespread un/under-employement and tepid government responses to both.

 

[BigPickZel]

A self fulfilling prophecy if you don't. people are products of their environment

Dumb people are dumb. No amount of magical, imaginary unbiased government intervention is ever going to change that. There are also other sticky issues that arise. People confuse "being wrong" with "holding a belief different than my own." So in some magical committee meeting, people in government, who are more often than not people who were unable to hack it in the private sector, will push their beliefs without even meaning to because they are normal human beings and it's impossible to leave their subconscious biases at the door. There is no unbiased news, it's literally impossible.

 

[BigPickZel]

That could help us. Raise wages in China so that some jobs start staying here. Granted things will cost a bit more, but I think we need the jobs more than we need the cheap shit.

Cheap shit creates jobs. People have more money to spend elsewhere.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Interesting - Increasing numbers of Americans are unenthusiastic for 'free-markets' - http://www.globescan.com/news_archives/radar10w2_free_market/

seems kinda obvious with a massive recession, widespread un/under-employement and tepid government responses to both.

I was going to make a snarky post in response along the lines of, on a related note increasing numbers of Americans are getting fucked over in the 'free-markets', but saw your addendum. So, yeah.

 

[BigPickZel]

Interesting - Increasing numbers of Americans are unenthusiastic for 'free-markets' - http://www.globescan.com/news_archives/radar10w2_free_market/

seems kinda obvious with a massive recession, widespread un/under-employement and tepid government responses to both.

Very few people understand the actualities of a truly free market. They confuse negative-effect of regulation and crony-capitalism with a true free market.

 

[Jeels]

But you aren't a professor at UCLA who has a book coming out. #473

Says NPR Morning Edition liberal bias is equivalent to the Washington Times conservative bias.

Fuck I hate people like that. If objectively telling the truth is a liberal bias then I guess the whole "reality has a liberal bias" is true.

That's the problem right there. There is anti-education/anti-intellectual/anti-anything where you learn strain in America and it's reeking from the extreme right conservative buttcrack. We don't want no learnin. We go by what our guts tell us! And polite? More like boring. We want a shouting match between people that is the verbal equivalent of a WWE match.

It's hilarious when they try to mock people with an education. Obviously if you are educated and have knowledge, that is somehow a bad thing. "Elitist". What.

 

[leroidys]

Very few people understand the actualities of a truly free market. They confuse negative-effect of regulation and crony-capitalism with a true free market.

Source?

 

[mckmas8808]

Can be dorky? He's the definition of dorky, outside of being into sports. He's also not the most personable president, given his aloof nature.

What makes him or anybody aloof? Lots of people use this narrative.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

Dumb people are dumb. No amount of magical, imaginary unbiased government intervention is ever going to change that. There are also other sticky issues that arise. People confuse "being wrong" with "holding a belief different than my own." So in some magical committee meeting, people in government,who are more often than not people who were unable to hack it in the private sector, will push their beliefs without even meaning to because they are normal human beings and it's impossible to leave their subconscious biases at the door. There is no unbiased news, it's literally impossible.

First point: false. It's individuals who want to expand or improve their hold in their business. Dick Cheney factually, not false, literally, profiteered off of his government position. The Bush Administration is probably the only administration to enter millionaires and exit multi-millionaires

Second point: true, except no one has ever or will ever make such a statement, but there are degrees. Bias can be systematic and intentional as it is in Fox News, or simply an unintential byproduct of ones own ideology affecting wording in a sentence. HUGE difference there

 

[BigPickZel]

Source?

The lack of a truly free market in America.

 

[BigPickZel]

First point: false. It's individuals who want to expand or improve their hold in their business. Dick Cheney factually, not false, literally, profiteered off of his government position. The Bush Administration is probably the only administration to enter millionaires and exit multi-millionaires

Second point: true, except no one has ever or will ever make such a statement, but there are degrees. Bias can be systematic and intentional as it is in Fox News, or simply an unintential byproduct of ones own ideology affecting wording in a sentence. HUGE difference there

I would prefer an organization be upfront about its bias, rather than try to hide what is unavoidable, or pretend it isn't there. That's just me, though.

 

[scorcho]

The lack of a truly free market anywhere in the world.

fixed. what people call free markets are mixed, and varying levels of that.

 

[BigPickZel]

fixed. what people call free markets are mixed, and varying levels of that.

Can't argue with you there, dammit.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

I would prefer an organization be upfront about its bias, rather than try to hide what is unavoidable, or pretend it isn't there. That's just me, though.

What are you trying to imply? I don't understand. I made the point between systematic bias which is prevelant in corporate/mainstream media, and individual bias which may occasionally be reflected in the nuances or subtleties insinuated by a journalist/reporter. Like i said, HUGE difference.

Plus, I don't see any mainstream guys literally in the trenches of Libya like AlJazeera has

 

[TacticalFox88]

The lack of a truly free market in America.

I don't think there is a truly free market anywhere

 

[BigPickZel]

What are you trying to imply? I don't understand. I made the point between systematic bias which is prevelant in corporate/mainstream media, and individual bias which may occasionally be reflected in the nuances or subtleties insinuated by a journalist/reporter. Like i said, HUGE difference.

Plus, I don't see any mainstream guys literally in the trenches of Libya like AlJazeera has

The thing is, people aren't aware of their biases. Example: Ira Glass was going on about how he doesn't think TLA is biased, they don't lean one way or the other, but they literally did a segment where they wanted the President to keep smoking because otherwise he was "this perfect human being." I'm just saying, as I've said before, that I want my news to not pretend it doesn't have bias.

 

[state-of-the-art]

I don't think there is a truly free market anywhere

There's always Somalia.

 

[empty vessel]

Eventually, the Chinese government will have to give in to Democracy. I don't even think we can call them "Communists" anymore.

China has been a totalitarian capitalist state for many years now.

Dumb people are dumb. No amount of magical, imaginary unbiased government intervention is ever going to change that.

That's just not remotely true. To believe this, you literally have to believe that causes don't have effects.

people in government, who are more often than not people who were unable to hack it in the private sector

An utterly ridiculous trope without any basis in fact.

 

[timetokill]

Precisely because our government dragged them kicking and screaming in to it. Sometimes, the government accomplished this through violence, like in the civil war. Sometimes this was accomplished through legisliation, like the civil rights act. Regardless, many people needed to be forced to give up their racist tendencies, because huge swathes of the country weren't doing it alone. Which is the point: left to their own devices, people often make terrible decisions. Often, large groups of people do so collectively.

Wasn't there that article posted recently that talked about how it wasn't the government leading the way on the anti-slavery, but pretty much accepting it after the fact? Something about how spineless the government was to make a stand on that issue. It really resonates today, too. It was posted in the last thread.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

But you aren't a professor at UCLA who has a book coming out. #473

Says NPR Morning Edition liberal bias is equivalent to the Washington Times conservative bias.

Hmm, I don't see bias is propaganda, it's just a bias. Though the Washington Times (one or two times I read it) really doesn't hide it, but that in itself isn't something I view as bad. It's just a preference on how you interpret events (some allow more leeway than others)

Mad Magazine did a really good joke in the 1970s where they printed a ultra liberal newspaper extract and a ultra conservative newspaper covering the same stories with different slants even film descriptions for King Kong on TV. Man I wish I could find it. I guess I need to get the Mad Archive DVD of older issues. People would get a kick out of it.

I can see people calling many of the fringe programs like "Living on Earth" or various local talk shows as propaganda. But the main line 'Morning Edition' and 'All Things Considered' . . . that is just basic news and presented in a very very neutral manner

ATC is a source of great interviews. Funny thing is I've only listened to NPR via pre-recorded old interviews I come across. I should listen to it sometime. Part of the problem with a subway morning commute is you can't listen to anything live.

 

[mckmas8808]

Wasn't there that article posted recently that talked about how it wasn't the government leading the way on the anti-slavery, but pretty much accepting it after the fact? Something about how spineless the government was to make a stand on that issue. It really resonates today, too. It was posted in the last thread.

,The government did not lead your right, but they did have to finish it.

 

[BigPickZel]

That's just not remotely true. To believe this, you literally have to believe that causes don't have effects.

So you believe the government can make dumb people smart?

 

[Plumbob]

So you believe the government can make dumb people smart?

Not all stupidity is intrinsic.

 

[empty vessel]

,The government did not lead your right, but they did have to finish it.

That is typically true of any victory the public achieves, from Social Security, to the minimum wage, to Medicare, to ending Jim Crow. We have to demand it first.

So you believe the government can make dumb people smart?

I suppose my exhibit A would be public schools?

 

[BigPickZel]

Educating people is a lot different that ensmartening them. And private schools do just as good a job as public ones. Even better in some cases.

 

[speculawyer]

I don't think there is a truly free market anywhere

I think the only truly free market biological evolution. Extinctions, eco-system collapses, endless suffering, overshoot & starvation . . . . not exactly something I'd like to emulate.

 

[BigPickZel]

I think the only truly free market biological evolution. Extinctions, eco-system collapses, endless suffering, overshoot & starvation . . . . not exactly something I'd like to emulate.

Yeah, that's a realistic comparison.