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PoliGAF 2011: Of Weiners, Boehners, Santorum, and Teabags

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AiTM said:
End wars, bring home troops, move S.S. to 70, abolish IRS, Flat tax of 20% for all brackets, millionaire tax of additional 20% for people who make million+, Make percentage of federal revenue have to be applied towards debt, spend as you go measure, legalize various drugs and tax, also would end various prison and police spending policies because of legal drugs, abolish most of DEA, Increase science and Tech research spending, ban most government unions with ridiculous job retention despite work results, ban teacher unions and tenure while increasing teacher pay 25-50% with teacher evaluations...

Right, wrong, or indifferent...its what I would push for.
Every single time someone who advocates a flat tax introduces it with a qualification of this nature, I am going to call them out on it. A flat tax with an exception for millionaires is just shittily implemented progressive taxation, but your suggesting it makes it clear that you understand why progressive taxation is necessary and beneficial.

Unrelated: I wonder if you could structure a financial transaction tax to tamp down some of this volatility?
 

_Xenon_

Banned
aronnov reborn said:
that's so... crazy... that i love it. just tell them we're not paying our debt and to STFU.
LOL if you really want to start a war against your debt owner then it will be a civil war instead of US vs China.

89128-who-holds-us-debt.jpg


You guys are the ones suffer the most from this disaster, not us.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
Debating a flat tax is probably the biggest time waster of all-time. Both parties LOVE using the tax code to exert their influence on society at-large. No politician is going to willingly cede that power.
 

jmdajr

Member
I wonder how this will affect the housing market...

I have been sitting on the fence for some time now figuring prices will still fall more...
 

deadbeef

Member
jmdajr said:
I wonder how this will affect the housing market...

I have been sitting on the fence for some time now figuring prices will still fall more...
You and me both but I'll jump in a second if things start to swing.
 

LosDaddie

Banned
jmdajr said:
I wonder how this will affect the housing market...

I have been sitting on the fence for some time now figuring prices will still fall more...

There really isn't a better time than right now.
 

Evlar

Banned
ReBurn said:
Don't worry. Big banks are too big to fail.
Which means investors are running from them because they think they're going to underperform for one reason or another.

Bank of America has been frantically sending up signals that "We're well capitalized! Really!!"
 
mernst23 said:
You mean when he said this in April not thinking that this thing was going to be dragged down to the last day before the default? That's a lot of grasping.
That is the same technique used about their mistaken belief in WMDs. They point to lots of quotes from Kerry, Clinton, and others in 2002 and earlier saying they believed in WMDs.

But in 2003 right before the war, those quotes were irrelevant in view of the fact that the UN weapons inspectors were on the ground and finding no WMDs. The facts had changed . . . . but hey, lets go with a misleading quotes.
 
planar1280 said:
wow GAF you disappoint me, why are you guys panicking so much, if you are like this imagine the others
I'm not panicking at all; I'm too poor for any of that news to affect me directly. But dropping a sixth of your value in one day is pretty hard to ignore.
 
jmdajr said:
I wonder how this will affect the housing market...

I have been sitting on the fence for some time now figuring prices will still fall more...

Housing is on its own downward spiral, but I suspect it may get harder to line up a mortgage if banks get even tighter. So yeah, maybe now is the best time.
 

eznark

Banned
planar1280 said:
wow GAF you disappoint me, why are you guys panicking so much, if you are like this imagine the others

You'll be panicking too when all the nations wealth lies with Glen Beck and his gold-sters
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
AiTM said:
End wars, bring home troops, move S.S. to 70, abolish IRS, Flat tax of 20% for all brackets, millionaire tax of additional 20% for people who make million+,
So you agree a flat tax isn't fair.
 
reilo said:
Dow 11,078.00 -366.61 -3.20%

Don't call it a comeback!
Can we just stop with the numbers until 4? That's not at you personally, but we're pretty much all trying to report on the machinations of a yo-yo, and it's kind of silly.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Mortrialus said:
Texas is the single biggest polluter in the United States and while I don't think those to photos are a before and after of the same specific area, I can guarantee you that much of the state has undergone that transformation because of Perry giving private industries free reign to do what they please.


Is this actually true? As a new Texan, I heard someone here that said that Texas' government hates pollution tries to do anything to stop/get rid of it.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Invisible_Insane said:
Can we just stop with the numbers until 4? That's not at you personally, but we're pretty much all trying to report on the machinations of a yo-yo, and it's kind of silly.
I'm just having fun with them. I don't take it too seriously. The more telling picture is what happens within the next 6 months.
 
reilo said:
I'm just having fun with them. I don't take it too seriously. The more telling picture is what happens within the next 6 months.

Next couple of days should be telling too. See if people are still trying to dump or if everyone is calming down again.
 
does anyone have a good tax rate chart to show to someone who says the Rich people don't deserve to be taxed even more than they are now and this someone keeps saying they contribute the most to the US economy
 

ToxicAdam

Member
mckmas8808 said:
Is this actually true? As a new Texan, I heard someone here that said that Texas' government hates pollution tries to do anything to stop/get rid of it.


It is in total, because it is a net energy exporter and has so many people. But, per capita? Nope. I think states like Wyoming are actually worse.
 

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
I honestly don't understand why Obama and Congress cannot create some form of agency that helps individual states create a jobs program where the federal government will pay for half of the costs to train someone or whatever costs it takes to hire someone. If someone was a banker and got laid off due to the recession, the bank would hire that person and the federal government pays for half of the costs for training. I know it wouldn't be perfect as you can't hire someone with no skills or performs poorly during the application process, but goddamn it should be start.
 

Evlar

Banned
Monday, August 08, 2011 12:09:13 PM RTRS - JP MORGAN SAYS SPOT GOLD PRICES COULD RISE TO $2500/OZ BY YEAR-END ON "VERY HIGH" VOLATILITY
via FT Alphaville.

That's scary high. That's "worry about getting mugged in the street for your wedding band" high.
 

DasRaven

Member
Jason's Ultimatum said:
I honestly don't understand why Obama and Congress cannot create some form of agency that helps individual states create a jobs program where the federal government will pay for half of the costs to train someone or whatever costs it takes to hire someone. If someone was a banker and got laid off due to the recession, the bank would hire that person and the federal government pays for half of the costs for training. I know it wouldn't be perfect as you can't hire someone with no skills or performs poorly during the application process, but goddamn it should be start.

There's the problem right there in bold.

Those who currently control the wallet (The GOP-controlled House) think we're already spending enough already and should reduce spending from this point forward.

Alternately, if you're more conspiratorial, the GOP doesn't want the economy do get better until the election is decided. Doing what you suggests will improve the economy, which will be attributed, in part at least, to the President and that dims the chances of his ouster.
 

Vestal

Junior Member
Jason's Ultimatum said:
I honestly don't understand why Obama and Congress cannot create some form of agency that helps individual states create a jobs program where the federal government will pay for half of the costs to train someone or whatever costs it takes to hire someone. If someone was a banker and got laid off due to the recession, the bank would hire that person and the federal government pays for half of the costs for training. I know it wouldn't be perfect as you can't hire someone with no skills or performs poorly during the application process, but goddamn it should be start.


SOCIALIST!!!!!!


thats what they will say.
 

eznark

Banned
Jason's Ultimatum said:
I honestly don't understand why Obama and Congress cannot create some form of agency that helps individual states create a jobs program where the federal government will pay for half of the costs to train someone or whatever costs it takes to hire someone. If someone was a banker and got laid off due to the recession, the bank would hire that person and the federal government pays for half of the costs for training. I know it wouldn't be perfect as you can't hire someone with no skills or performs poorly during the application process, but goddamn it should be start.

They can't force employers to hire people. Currently firms are still shedding capacity, why would they add to the labor force even at a discount?
 

gcubed

Member
what are the bubbles we have remaining? Gold, Student Loans, ...

eznark said:
They can't force employers to hire people. Currently firms are still shedding capacity, why would they add to the labor force even at a discount?

firms are hiring (on average for the last how many months), the public sector is shedding.
 

nubbe

Member
Most state budgets wont be in balance for 3-5 years... if at that with the current outlook.
gold could go very high when there is no confidence in bank notes.
 

AiTM

Banned
ToxicAdam said:
Debating a flat tax is probably the biggest time waster of all-time. Both parties LOVE using the tax code to exert their influence on society at-large. No politician is going to willingly cede that power.

Im so sick of hearing of the implausibility of big change. I think we need a electric shot to bold the system. Something new and drastic that could ignite entrepreneurs and consumers.

And to respond to "fairness" of the flat tax, I don't want to get into fairness of an issue, because its subjective and diverts what the conversation should be about. I advocate a simple tax system with two or three brackets with no loopholes or exceptions for simplicity, combined with a small national sales tax. Massive Government bureaucracies which create entire legal and political systems to maintain the bureaucracy are a complete waste of resources, that are diverted from areas that could give us better returns. Is it the most fair system? I don't know. But I do know we could get rid of most of the IRS (except a small percentage who enforce payment and cheats along with local police). All of these accountants, tax lawyers, estate managers, IRS and government agents, etc could be put into careers that actually produce a product or give us a service that benefit people, not maintaining a large complex bureaucracy. Maybe I'm a dreamer.

And to the other comment about me attacking teachers, nothing could be further from the truth. Instead of paying them 30-60k a year, I'm saying we pay them 60-100k a year, but get rid of these ridiculous "time out" rooms they have it New York that costs millions a year, get rid of tenure, make it like any other job where your performance matters, and you have to find a way to produce measurable results. And not some teachers union that threatens to strike if bad teachers need to be fired. My opinion is really skewed from that documentary "Waiting for Superman", maybe its BS I don't know, but I think we all can agree the current system doesn't work.

Also take the extra money from the cut in defense, wars, prisons and policing drugs into medicare and rehab/ drug awareness programs. Not to mention all of the additional tax revenue from drug use. Stop worrying about policing the world, or spreading our influence, and focus on our own areas and creating a society that the world would be envious of, and producing products, ideas, and services that will spread our influence and power for us. Anyways back to reality.

Edit:

Why are people worrying about a Gold bubble? With housing or education you have alot of loans that you need paid back...this isn't the case with gold is it? It would just drop value, and the wealthy who bought it would just be out. Is it because all of the banks who are buying it would take a hit?
 

Xdrive05

Member
So at what point does the greater Republican constituency say "I don't want our nation to evaporate because of the off-the-charts-right-wing ideology of the people I just put in office. I will not put them in office again, for the sake of our country."

Country first, right?
 

Clevinger

Member
Xdrive05 said:
So at what point does the greater Republican constituency say "I don't want our nation to evaporate because of the off-the-charts-right-wing ideology of the people I just put in office. I will not put them in office again, for the sake of our country."

Country first, right?

When the right wing media machine somehow mysteriously implodes into thin air.
 

eznark

Banned
gcubed said:
what are the bubbles we have remaining? Gold, Student Loans, ...



firms are hiring (on average for the last how many months), the public sector is shedding.

I don't think gold is a bubble in a traditional sense. When that gold "bubble" bursts it will do so because of renewed confidence in economic infrastructure.

I didn't dig into the latest jobs report to get granular, but wasn't most of the private sector hiring low end, unskilled type positions?
 
eznark said:
They can't force employers to hire people. Currently firms are still shedding capacity, why would they add to the labor force even at a discount?

I dunno. To get people spending again. The workers program gets people working again, they spend money, demand goes up, people are going to banks more often to deposit money, etc., etc.. Multiplier effect!
 
Evlar said:
And the dollar got stronger.

Yes, but let's hold the celebrations until we see what the banks are exchanging at tomorrow. Exchange rate plummeted from banks from friday to today, hopefully it will go back to where it was since the dollar is actually getting stronger and not weaker.
 
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