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[ThisWreckage]

I'm just curious on the rest of the week. are we going to stabilize or free-fall.. well i guess if we all knew that we'd be rich but still.

It'll be somewhere in between. I predict small drops throughout the week.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Im so sick of hearing of the implausibility of big change. I think we need a electric shot to bold the system. Something new and drastic that could ignite entrepreneurs and consumers.

And to respond to "fairness" of the flat tax, I don't want to get into fairness of an issue, because its subjective and diverts what the conversation should be about. I advocate a simple tax system with two or three brackets with no loopholes or exceptions for simplicity, combined with a small national sales tax. Massive Government bureaucracies which create entire legal and political systems to maintain the bureaucracy are a complete waste of resources, that are diverted from areas that could give us better returns. Is it the most fair system? I don't know. But I do know we could get rid of most of the IRS (except a small percentage who enforce payment and cheats along with local police). All of these accountants, tax lawyers, estate managers, IRS and government agents, etc could be put into careers that actually produce a product or give us a service that benefit people, not maintaining a large complex bureaucracy. Maybe I'm a dreamer.

And to the other comment about me attacking teachers, nothing could be further from the truth. Instead of paying them 30-60k a year, I'm saying we pay them 60-100k a year, but get rid of these ridiculous "time out" rooms they have it New York that costs millions a year, get rid of tenure, make it like any other job where your performance matters, and you have to find a way to produce measurable results. And not some teachers union that threatens to strike if bad teachers need to be fired. My opinion is really skewed from that documentary "Waiting for Superman", maybe its BS I don't know, but I think we all can agree the current system doesn't work.

Also take the extra money from the cut in defense, wars, prisons and policing drugs into medicare and rehab/ drug awareness programs. Not to mention all of the additional tax revenue from drug use. Stop worrying about policing the world, or spreading our influence, and focus on our own areas and creating a society that the world would be envious of, and producing products, ideas, and services that will spread our influence and power for us. Anyways back to reality.

Edit:

Why are people worrying about a Gold bubble? With housing or education you have alot of loans that you need paid back...this isn't the case with gold is it? It would just drop value, and the wealthy who bought it would just be out. Is it because all of the banks who are buying it would take a hit?

- It really isn't subjective. A flat tax hurts the poor and helps the rich. What you're proposing would be a tax cut/same tax to the rich and a massive (IE, A MASSSSIIIIIVVVEEEE) tax increase on the poorest of Americans. The poor don't take 20% of the country's resources, they shouldn't have to pay 20% of the taxes. They should pay what they take out, and since they take out <1% anyway, them not paying federal income taxes is actually very fair and very justified.

- The IRS HAS to be a big government entity. It's a body that collects, maintains and double checks paperwork that every single person in the country sends to them. I really don't see how that could not be done unless you had a giant body like the IRS. All those lawyers and extra jobs and such are there to ensure that the right people are paying the right taxes.

- You advocate for paying teachers based on performance, but the advocate for an across the board pay increase that could possibly bankrupt states.

- The last paragraph I agree with, other than that we're the world's largest economy, and therefore we're going to have to protect ourselves the most. We also have the most at risk when small countries go nuts and do crazy political stunts.

 

[planar1280]

America....fuck yeah

 

[Xdrive05]

Obligatory...

 

[Rocket Punch]

Newsweek is raising eyebrows for its cover once again. This week they have a wide-eyed Michele Bachmann appearing to bring the crazy. The crazy eyes aren’t as bad as, say, Runaway Bride Jennifer Wilbanks, but that hi res shot over the words “The Queen of Rage” clearly invites a reader to see what makes Bachmann tic.

Link

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Hooray for American corporatism.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm244/huzkee/8-8-20113-15-55PM.png[IMG]][/QUOTE]
That shit is frightening.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Newsweek embarrassing themselves again. I'm no fan of Bachman but come the fuck on

 

[eznark]

Newsweek embarrassing themselves again. I'm no fan of Bachman but come the fuck on

Newsweek stopped pretending to be a serious news magazine a long time ago. The Daily Beast is a joke.

Wisconsin conservo-talk has been melting down today in preparation for a rebuffing tomorrow. Wednesday is going to be hilarious.

 

[Diablos]

Newsweek is raising eyebrows for its cover once again. This week they have a wide-eyed Michele Bachmann appearing to bring the crazy. The crazy eyes aren’t as bad as, say, Runaway Bride Jennifer Wilbanks, but that hi res shot over the words “The Queen of Rage” clearly invites a reader to see what makes Bachmann tic.

Link

"AHHHH BITCHES!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!"

 

[maximum360]

I hope that the reason he's acting like this is because of re-election, with him after 2012 election saying/doing WTF he wants and becoming the badass we all hoped he'd be.

I'm really hoping that's the end game as well.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

For a second, I was thinking of Newsweek doing the cover on Ann Coulter. Turns out it was TIME:

 

[Amir0x]

Anything that makes her appear as crazy as she is is just accurate reporting.

Anyway, that's some dow drop today. Lovely.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Newsweek isn't worth paying attention to and hasn't been for ages. That said, those eyes are scary as hell. She has the face of a lunatic. (Which is fittng, of course.) I suppose it's a good thing that people see her for what she is.

Days like today make me glad I only build my portfolio tracking file once a quarter. I'm sure it's been shellacked (though less than the market has been), but hey. Just means my regularly scheduled investments will gobble up more shares.

 

[Clevinger]

For a second, I was thinking of Newsweek doing the cover on Ann Coulter. Turns out it was TIME:

Ms. Long.

 

[Mercury Fred]

Newsweek embarrassing themselves again. I'm no fan of Bachman but come the fuck on

Well, she's a deranged sociopath who's bearding for a gay man who runs a center to torture the gay out of people. The cover is appropriate.

 

[besada]

Bank of America is down 17.9%; Citigroup is down 16.4%; Goldman Sachs is down 8% http://on.wsj.com/p3XrEc

good lawd

I probably shouldn't be laughing, but I can't help it.

 

[zero_suit]

I probably shouldn't be laughing, but I can't help it.

Yeah, especially at Goldman.

 

[besada]

Is this actually true? As a new Texan, I heard someone here that said that Texas' government hates pollution tries to do anything to stop/get rid of it.

That person was lying their ass off. Texas not only produces ridiculous amounts of oil-based pollution at the refineries, our biological pollution (chicken shit, pig shit, cow shit, blood, viscera, etc.) is off the charts. Granted, that's because we're also some of the biggest producers of refined oil and livestock, but the general trend has been to give "bidness" whatever they want, which is mostly no one paying attention to their pollution.

The infamous Bo Pilgrim incident was about chicken shit being pumped into our rivers.

And to respond to "fairness" of the flat tax, I don't want to get into fairness of an issue, because its subjective and diverts what the conversation should be about. I advocate a simple tax system with two or three brackets with no loopholes or exceptions for simplicity, combined with a small national sales tax.

You're not describing a flat tax. You're describing the basis of the progressive tax system we currently have. You'd probably have less people blowing you off over a flat tax system if you called it something else, because a flat tax system, by definition, is a system in which everyone pays the same percentage. What you want is a simplified progressive tax system. You'll find a lot less people disagree with you when you accurately describe your policy solution.

If you'd said, "I want a progressive, but simple tax system, where the richest pay a higher amount, and there are no loopholes for capital gains, etc. and I also want a V.A.T" I imagine you would have been lauded for your wisdom, since those are things that many of the people here support.

 

[Novid]

Watch out the next few months folks. Rumblings have started that could lead into Mega Crash around October. Possibly dealing with the AIG lawsuit. Today was a mini crash and my friends who worked in finance tell me that over the last ten days the market washed all of the QE2 distorion.

 

[indigo-cyclops]

All the whack jobs are in full effect today on the local AM political talk shows. Frustrating to hear people call in and say they know nothing about politics then proceed to say the dumbest shit ever.

 

[NeoUltima]

I am so goddamn confused. Yields on treasuries actually fell today (and the dollar went up?!)? But isn't the whole cause of this shit the US credit rating dropping? That would imply the opposite.

"omg us debt rating has fallen. Let's sell our stocks and invest in treasuries." Just doesn't make sense. What am I missing? Is the credit falling on one of many reasons for today's slide? Or is the market just full of crazy fear mongers who have no idea what they are doing?

 

[Vestal]

Watch out the next few months folks. Rumblings have started that could lead into Mega Crash around October. Possibly dealing with the AIG lawsuit. Today was a mini crash and my friends who worked in finance tell me that over the last ten days the market washed all of the QE2 distorion.

Sadly it will probably be blamed on the current president and administration, when Alot of the problems BofA is having are due to them buying Merryl back in 08, and the double dip stimilus they took.

 

[Novid]

I am so goddamn confused. Yields on treasuries actually fell today? But isn't the whole cause of this shit the US credit rating dropping? That would imply the opposite.

"omg us debt rating has fallen. Let's sell our stocks and invest in treasuries." Just doesn't make sense. What am I missing? Is the credit falling on one of many reasons for today's slide? Or is the market just full of crazy fear mongers who have no idea what they are doing?

The Market is full of TNT right now. There gonna be a bounce but after that watch out.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

I am so goddamn confused. Yields on treasuries actually fell today? But isn't the whole cause of this shit the US credit rating dropping? That would imply the opposite.

"omg us debt rating has fallen. Let's sell our stocks and invest in treasuries." Just doesn't make sense. What am I missing? Is the credit falling on one of many reasons for today's slide? Or is the market just full of crazy fear mongers who have no idea what they are doing?

{sigh} Bad reporting. Even NPR is doing it. Dysfunctional as our political system is now, the risk of the US being unable to meet its obligations to bondholders in pretty close to nil. There is no real risk in treasuries. The best explanation out there for what the market is doing, I think, is that investors are largely becoming aware that prospects for growth given consumer deleveraging, and the resulting hesitance of businesses, are limited, as is the possibility of meaningful government intervention. So they're moving they're assets to cash and waiting. But the downgrade by S&P means virtually nothing.

 

[KingGondo]

All the whack jobs are in full effect today on the local AM political talk shows. Frustrating to hear people call in and say they know nothing about politics then proceed to say the dumbest shit ever.

They're always in full effect on the radio.

I heard a guy on the radio today say, "this wonderful economy Obama has given us," as if it isn't 90% Republicans' fault for holding the country hostage over every big business/crazy fundamentalist tax issue to get their way.

President Perry/Romney/Bachmann here we come. No way they'll let up now that Obama is basically fucked in 2012.

 

[besada]

Yeah, especially at Goldman.

Well, BoA bought my mortgage from Countrywide, and then put me through six months of failed mortgage adjustment hell, so I'd pay a pretty penny to see BoA burn to the ground.

Not to mention that it increases the chances that no one will ever be able to find the original loan papers on my house. If enough of the serial buyers of my mortgage collapse, the chances increase that no one will be able to foreclose on me.

 

[Plinko]

Watch out the next few months folks. Rumblings have started that could lead into Mega Crash around October. Possibly dealing with the AIG lawsuit. Today was a mini crash and my friends who worked in finance tell me that over the last ten days the market washed all of the QE2 distorion.

I'm not buying this quite yet.

 

[Novid]

Sadly it will probably be blamed on the current president and administration, when Alot of the problems BofA is having are due to them buying Merryl back in 08, and the double dip stimilus they took.

The market has to wash out the debt. All Obama had was two choices. Arrest the bankers that forged the documents and caused this mess, or barring that - set up camps for the disposessed workers and allow the market wash out the debt. It was going to be bad either way but we would have out of this mess in 18 months.

 

[Plinko]

Sadly it will probably be blamed on the current president and administration, when Alot of the problems BofA is having are due to them buying Merryl back in 08, and the double dip stimilus they took.

As I said earlier in the thread, people are pissed at both parties. I honestly have no clue what happens in this next election because of how angry the American people are at everyone in office right now.

If a viable 3rd party candidate stood up right now and started taking shots at both sides, they'd have a fighter's chance.

 

[FLEABttn]

As I said earlier in the thread, people are pissed at both parties. I honestly have no clue what happens in this next election because of how angry the American people are at everyone in office right now.

If a viable 3rd party candidate stood up right now and started taking shots at both sides, they'd have a fighter's chance.

Anecdotal for sure but the general political chat around the office has shifted from "fuck the democrats and Obama" to "fuck them all".

Will this translate into anything in 2012? Probably too early to tell.

 

[Wall]

I am so goddamn confused. Yields on treasuries actually fell today? But isn't the whole cause of this shit the US credit rating dropping? That would imply the opposite.

"omg us debt rating has fallen. Let's sell our stocks and invest in treasuries." Just doesn't make sense. What am I missing? Is the credit falling on one of many reasons for today's slide? Or is the market just full of crazy fear mongers who have no idea what they are doing?

The reasons are simple:

1) Standard and Poors doesn't know wtf it is doing. The metrics they use to assess risk are flawed.

2) Many influential people in the media and politics are under the mistaken impression that the United States has unsustainable deficits and is under immediate threat of a loss of confidence in its ability to repay its debts which would produce a crisis similar to those facing European countries such as Spain and Greece. These individuals are incorrect.

3) The economy is poor due to a continuing lack of demand for products and services, thus leaving investors with few places to invest. As a result, they continue to put a lot of their money into T-Bills, thus driving the interest rates that the government needs to pay on its debt to record lows. Any little market panic, such as today, caused either by foreign crisises such as what is happening in Europe or fears of a renewed recession, sends even more investor money into T-Bills, driving their interest rates even lower.

 

[Novid]

Anecdotal for sure but the general political chat around the office has shifted from "fuck the democrats and Obama" to "fuck them all".

Will this translate into anything in 2012? Probably too early to tell.

It will not matter who wins the election in 2012. Im way, way more worried who comes in 2016.

 

[Evlar]

Anecdotally again, there has been a lot less political discussion in earshot in the past week or so; since I'm living in one of the most hard-right regions in the country, this suggests a little bit of re-thinking on the right. After all, just a week ago the Tea Party mantra was that default would have no consequences...

I expect this period of uncertainty to be shaken off soon as the right wing media machine takes control of their spin machine again.

 

[TacticalFox88]

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm244/huzkee/8-8-20113-15-55PM.png[IMG]

Newsweek is raising eyebrows for its cover once again. This week they have a wide-eyed Michele Bachmann appearing to bring the crazy. The crazy eyes aren’t as bad as, say, Runaway Bride Jennifer Wilbanks, but that hi res shot over the words “The Queen of Rage” clearly invites a reader to see what makes Bachmann tic.

[URL="http://videogoneviral.com/2011/08/michele-bachmanns-eye-popping-newsweek-cover/"]Link[/URL][/QUOTE]
The face of evil.

 

[Xdrive05]

I love how when the left was bashing Bush we were supposed to "consider the impact of the Democratic congress". And now that the tables have turned and shit's going south, it's all Obama's fault. Funny how the standards always double every time "the other side" is in the white house.

Anyways, back to "Barakapocalypse".

 

[Macam]

The reasons are simple:

1) Standard and Poors doesn't know wtf it is doing. The metrics they use to assess risk are flawed.

2) Many influential people in the media and politics are under the mistaken impression that the United States has unsustainable deficits and is under immediate threat of a loss of confidence in its ability to repay its debts which would produce a crisis similar to those facing European countries such as Spain and Greece. These individuals are incorrect.

3) The economy is poor due to a continuing lack of demand for products and services, thus leaving investors with few places to invest. As a result, they continue to put a lot of their money into T-Bills, thus driving the interest rates that the government needs to pay on its debt to record lows. Any little market panic, such as today, caused either by foreign crisises such as what is happening in Europe or fears of a renewed recession, sends even more investor money into T-Bills, driving their interest rates even lower.

Just to underscore those first two points, Nate Silver takes on S&P's poor track record. An excerpt:

For instance, the S.&P. ratings have an extremely strong relationship with a measure of political risk known as the Corruption Perceptions Index, which is published annually by Transparency International. These ratings have been the subject of much criticism because they are highly subjective, relying on a composite of surveys conducted among “experts” at international organizations who may have spent little time in most of the countries and who may instead base their judgments on cultural stereotypes.

I don’t know whether or not S.&P. looks at these ratings. But the fact that the two sets of ratings are so closely related is troublesome. It suggests that S.&P. is making a lot of judgment calls about countries they have no particular knowledge about. Keep in mind that even when it comes to the United States, S.&P. made a $2 trillion error that reflects their lack of understanding of the way that bills are scored by the Congressional Budget Office. Are we to expect that they add value based on their perceptions of the political climate in Kazakhstan, or Cyprus, or Uganda?

 

[NeoUltima]

{sigh} Bad reporting. Even NPR is doing it. Dysfunctional as our political system is now, the risk of the US being unable to meet its obligations to bondholders in pretty close to nil. There is no real risk in treasuries. The best explanation out there for what the market is doing, I think, is that investors are largely becoming aware that prospects for growth given consumer deleveraging, and the resulting hesitance of businesses, are limited, as is the possibility of meaningful government intervention. So they're moving they're assets to cash and waiting. But the downgrade by S&P means virtually nothing.

Well that makes sense, thanks. Here I was totally confused by headlines and the results. I guess it just sounds more sensationalist to blame it all on the downgrade.

 

[Jackson50]

Last minute pathetic begging by Israel so Palestinians don't go to UN for statehood next month. I hope the Palestinians don't fall for Israel's bullshit, and go full speed ahead. They had their chance for the last 20 years, so why all of a sudden now?

Yeah. I think it is mostly a ploy to deter the Palestinians. Why force the issue if Israel has already proffered a framework for statehood? Of course, it is disingenuous. And I think the PA should reject it. Additionally, I think it is an attempt to increase the fissure developing within the PA on pushing the issue at the UN. If they provide a seemingly viable alternative, it may strengthen the position of those reluctant to pursue recognition.

As I said earlier in the thread, people are pissed at both parties. I honestly have no clue what happens in this next election because of how angry the American people are at everyone in office right now.

If a viable 3rd party candidate stood up right now and started taking shots at both sides, they'd have a fighter's chance.

Save us, American's Elect. You're our only hope.

 

[thekad]

We're fucked.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

Save us, American's Elect. You're our only hope.

I think a state-by-state effort to award electoral votes proportionally (as I doubt we'd be able to get rid of the electoral college directly) might serve us better than anything Americans Elect will come up with. Even this is probably a pretty high hurdle to clear, though.

 

[polyh3dron]

It's a pity that Bachmann's campaign went up in smoke the moment we learned that she had a gay husband who had "prayed the gay away" and is running a business to help others of his kind do the same.

 

[Patrick Klepek]

It's hard to imagine Democrats getting any traction with a counter message to all of this, even if Obama's hardly to blame. There's no story to tell. Obama needs to spend the next year and a half finding a story to tell, but by constantly slotting himself as the moderate, he's without a narrative.

 

[Jackson50]

I think a state-by-state effort to award electoral votes proportionally (as I doubt we'd be able to get rid of the electoral college directly) might serve us better than anything Americans Elect will come up with. Even this is probably a pretty high hurdle to clear, though.

Of course. Reforming the electoral system is integral. I was merely mocking Friedman and the notion that a viable third party will materialize in our current system.

 

[Souldriver]

It's hard to imagine Democrats getting any traction with a counter message to all of this, even if Obama's hardly to blame. There's no story to tell. Obama needs to spend the next year and a half finding a story to tell, but by constantly slotting himself as the moderate, he's without a narrative.

Eh, momentum and image building can be weird phenomena. Obama being so moderate could be turned into a catchy story of the steady president trying to keep the house standing in the midst of utter madness.

Not that that's gonna happen. I'm just saying that every position or attitude of a politician can be turned into a good or bad character profile, given the right circumstances. Truth and facts aren't even all that important in this.

 

[TacticalFox88]

It's hard to imagine Democrats getting any traction with a counter message to all of this, even if Obama's hardly to blame. There's no story to tell. Obama needs to spend the next year and a half finding a story to tell, but by constantly slotting himself as the moderate, he's without a narrative.

What? Do you know the amount of soundbites from what Republicans have said that they could absolutely ROAST the GOP with? They're either extremely stupid or extremely scared to use them. The messages literally write themselves.

 

[Oblivion]

Lol. So there was a tea bagger rally the other day, and the speaker was talking about how the media/dems are blaming the tea baggers for the credit downgrade. Apparently, thespeaker didn't expect the reaction from the attendees:

SHEA KING: This week—I wrote it down—they are blaming the credit downgrade on the tea party movement.

CROWD: Yeah! [Cheers, clapping]

SHEA KING: They are calling it "the tea party downgrade." They are objectivizing [sic] us.

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/tea-partiers-cheer-downgrade-americas-cred


If only they could be this honest about other things as well.

 

[besada]

I think a state-by-state effort to award electoral votes proportionally (as I doubt we'd be able to get rid of the electoral college directly) might serve us better than anything Americans Elect will come up with. Even this is probably a pretty high hurdle to clear, though.

This has been my primary political work for the last twenty years. I've worked with Fairvote.org to try to make this a reality. It's slow and unrewarding but I think it's one of the most important things we might actually be able to achieve.

 

[Patrick Klepek]

What? Do you know the amount of soundbites from what Republicans have said that they could absolutely ROAST the GOP with? They're either extremely stupid or extremely scared to use them. The messages literally write themselves.

I think you're totally right in regards to the situation in Congress, but for Obama? I don't know. The argument against Perry because he's a Texas governor might work if the economy was rolling, but even though Texas' economic story is full of holes, it's what people want to hear.

 

[Vestal]

Shouldn't it be time we reform congress?

2 things I would like to see.

1. Get rid of Midterm elections.. As in Normalize elections so they are all every 4 years

2. Institute a Term limit.