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[speculawyer]

Was he even in the poll? I thought he was a write-in like Perry and Huntsman.

Apparently he was on the ballot but "not competing" . . . whatever that means.
http://news.yahoo.com/bachmann-wins-gop-2012-test-vote-224544660.html

 

[Particle Physicist]

Just to be clear, there is no one in this thread (with the possible exception of EV) that hates Perry more than I do. I'm pretty comfortable saying that.

I was standing outside the gates of Huntsville when they murdered Willingham. I've been outside those gates plenty of other times. I am adamantly against the death penalty. I've been fighting the death penalty here in Texas since 1986, when I first stood outside those gates. The thing to know is, the group protesting against is usually smaller than the people who come out and cheer while inmates die.

I am also in a minority in Texas, and the majority has little problem with the way our death penalty is enacted, save for the fact that it's too slow. Seriously. Ask your average Texan and that's the answer you're going to get -- too slow.

My only point of contention was that Perry's decision had anything to do with the viability of the science. It didn't.

Edit:

Actually, Perry agreed with the commission and allowed Kenneth Foster off death row, because there was a political upside -- there was massive political pressure over the fact that Foster hadn't actually killed anyone, but had been convicted under the law of parties. To be clear, no one cared about whether he lived or died, they were afraid his execution would open them up to Federal tampering in Texas's death penalty.

Thank you. I don't know why you were so abrasive about it earlier, but I do see your point.

 

[ezekial45]

Was he even in the poll? I thought he was a write-in like Perry and Huntsman.

Oh was he? That sorta makes more since. Though i'm wondering why he wasn't on it. But Bachmann is just gonna build up more momentum from here, and it might make things difficult for him.

 

[Wilsongt]

Now I remember why I used to only watch Nick and Cartoon Network when I actually watched TV. The amount of crazy going on on TV is enough to make anyone go mad. None of it directly effects me at this moment, but I can't help but get overly annoyed and angry, especially when people begin to attack science.

 

[empty vessel]

Just to be clear, there is no one in this thread (with the possible exception of EV) that hates Perry more than I do.

I suspect we hate him equally.

And I'm sure you are right about the Willingham affair. Texas governors are incredibly cavalier with the death penalty. I would not be surprised if the memo from arson expert Hurst was never even looked at by anybody in the Governor's office. (His office has so far successfully avoided having to disclose any internal documents about it under Texas's terrible public information act.) Then again, it also would not surprise me if it was looked at and immediately written off, not because of anti-science bias but because it came from the defense. Either way, I feel confident that there wasn't an intellectual struggle of any kind going on. It was just another execution for Perry to which he paid no mind at all.

That said, I think it is fair to use Willingham to paint Perry with the anti-science brush. Even after the exoneration and a chorus of experts have come forward to say there isn't evidence of arson, Perry has rejected their consensus.

 

[besada]

I suspect we hate him equally.

And I'm sure you are right about the Willingham affair. Texas governors are incredibly cavalier with the death penalty. I would not be surprised if the memo from arson expert Hurst was never even looked at by anybody in the Governor's office. (His office has so far successfully avoided having to disclose any internal documents about it under Texas's terrible public information act.) Then again, it also would not surprise me if it was looked at and immediately written off, not because of anti-science bias but because it came from the defense. Either way, I feel confident that there wasn't an intellectual struggle of any kind going on. It was just another execution for Perry to which he paid no mind at all.

That said, I think it is fair to use Willingham to paint Perry with the anti-science brush. Even after the exoneration and a chorus of experts have come forward to say there isn't evidence of arson, Perry has rejected their consensus.

Well, yeah, but do you really think it's because he disagrees with the science, or do you think it's because he's sort of obliged to pretend he disagrees with the science to cover his ass? It's not as if I think Perry is a science-lover, it's just that I think the science had little to nothing to do with his decision.

I just thought it was a weird orthagonal line of attack when we were originally discussing ID and Perry's general opinions on science. Somehow we got from there to people suggesting I didn't have a problem with it. I just find it weird to pretend that Perry's issue was science, when it was clearly a big cup of political "don't give a fuck." I think it gives him way too much credit to suggest he actually cares one way or another about the science.

 

[empty vessel]

Well, yeah, but do you really think it's because he disagrees with the science, or do you think it's because he's sort of obliged to pretend he disagrees with the science to cover his ass? It's not as if I think Perry is a science-lover, it's just that I think the science had little to nothing to do with his decision.

Yeah, I am sure the politics of it is driving it. I mean, you can't just admit that you killed one of your citizens and still have a future in politics (although, honestly, I'm starting to doubt that bit of conventional wisdom in our current environment). But I think since he has to reject the science to do it, it's fair game to paint him with it, even if he isn't personally considering it. That has to be the cost.

I just thought it was a weird orthagonal line of attack when we were originally discussing ID and Perry's general opinions on science. Somehow we got from there to people suggesting I didn't have a problem with it. I just find it weird to pretend that Perry's issue was science, when it was clearly a big cup of political "don't give a fuck." I think it gives him way too much credit to suggest he actually cares one way or another about the science.

I agree. The complete ambivalence towards the State's killing of its own citizens and disinterest in making sure it's the right one (or even that a crime was committed at all) is, or ought to be, even more damning than rejecting the expert evidence after serious contemplation. In the latter scenario, Perry is stupid but acting in good faith. In the former, he is dangerous. Perry is definitely the former. "Good faith" is not something that comes to mind when I think about him.

 

[quaere]

Has this been posted? Can't believe it hasn't but I can't find it on GAF through Google. May I present to you the future Republican nominee...

Rick Perry's College Transcript: A Lot Of Cs And Ds

One reason that might explain his hostility toward the system: He didn't do very well in it. A source in Texas passed The Huffington Post Perry's transcripts from his years at Texas A&M University. The future politician did not distinguish himself much in the classroom. While he later became a student leader, he had to get out of academic probation to do so. He rarely earned anything above a C in his courses -- earning a C in U.S. History, a D in Shakespeare, and a D in the principles of economics. Perry got a C in gym.

Perry also did poorly on classes within his animal science major. In fall semester 1970, he received a D in veterinary anatomy, a F in a second course on organic chemistry and a C in animal breeding. He did get an A in world military systems and “Improv. of Learning” -- his only two As while at A&M.

"A&M wasn't exactly Harvard on the Brazos River," recalled a Perry classmate in an interview with The Huffington Post. "This was not the brightest guy around. We always kind of laughed. He was always kind of a joke."

A spokesperson for the governor recently told the Texas Tribune that the university "helped shape who he is today." The governor’s office did not return a request for comment from The Huffington Post.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/05/rick-perry-college-transcript_n_919357.html

Perry Graduated From A&M with Around a 2.0 GPA

The HuffPo article is clearly a hit piece on Rick Perry, but they have his scanned transcript posted for everyone to see. A quick calculation that I did reveals a cumulative GPA of 1.9 over his college career. In other words, Perry was a “D” student at Texas A&M. (To be fair, he was one tenth of a point away from being a “C” student. So close.)

UPDATE: Because A&M did not use a four-point GPA system in Perry’s first year, my calculations of his 1.9 GPA are most likely a little off. According to our reader Thomas Alan, his GPA would have been 2.1. Without having time to double check the arithmetic, the headline has been changed accordingly.

http://race42012.com/2011/08/05/perry-graduated-from-am-with-a-1-9-gpa/

 

[Particle Physicist]

Well, yeah, but do you really think it's because he disagrees with the science, or do you think it's because he's sort of obliged to pretend he disagrees with the science to cover his ass? It's not as if I think Perry is a science-lover, it's just that I think the science had little to nothing to do with his decision.

I just thought it was a weird orthagonal line of attack when we were originally discussing ID and Perry's general opinions on science. Somehow we got from there to people suggesting I didn't have a problem with it. I just find it weird to pretend that Perry's issue was science, when it was clearly a big cup of political "don't give a fuck." I think it gives him way too much credit to suggest he actually cares one way or another about the science.

Just to clarify, I never suggested you didn't have a problem with it. Also, my original post was about Perry being dismissive of new scientific findings.. which he was. The post had nothing about his motives though.

 

[besada]

I agree. The complete ambivalence towards the State's killing of its own citizens and disinterest in making sure it's the right one (or even that a crime was committed at all) is, or ought to be, even more damning than rejecting the expert evidence after serious contemplation. In the latter scenario, Perry is stupid but acting in good faith. In the former, he is dangerous. Perry is definitely the former. "Good faith" is not something that comes to mind when I think about him.

And that's my point. Making it about the science suggests he has actual principles by which his decisions are guided, which is -- I think -- a complete misunderstanding of the man. If people want to know who Perry really is, they'd be better of reading Jim Thompson's Killer Inside Me. I've had the misfortune of meeting him twice, and both times he made my skin crawl.

I think a poster upthread got it mostly right when he compared him to Greg Stillson from King's novel the Dead Zone. He struck me as one of a hundred dirt poor farm boys I know that grew up to hate just about everyone, and discovered they could pretend to care about something other than punishing the world for their shitty upbringings.

I've never felt that he had any sort of real feeling for actual issues. Like Lee Atwater and Karl Rove, he cares about winning, period. He wants power, and once he has it he uses it to get more. Every decision is based on how much money and power it will buy him.

I find that vastly more terrifying than the vision of him as a true believer who denies science, and I think it's more accurate. If I thought he'd actually become President, I'd be scared shitless. Instead, I think he'll end his career trying, which is why I'm pleased he's making a run for it. Zod help us all if I'm wrong and he wins.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

I don't know if this is the place to ask, but I figure it's worth a shot. Do any of you guys know of a website or something that I could go to to learn about all of this political stuff? Preferably one that is easy to understand, and one that describes all of the lingo and policies. Basically politics for noobs. I vaguely know who the Michele Bachmann woman is, along with Ron Paul, but I don't know who any of these other people are. The upcoming presidential election will be the first that I participate in, and I would like to be informed on all of the potential candidates. I don't want to stay in the dark on political issues any more. I read the op, but there isn't any beginner friendly information in there, and the prospect of reading through this entire thread is daunting to say the least. Any help would be greatly appreciated, and if this isn't the right place to ask, then I'm sorry. ;p

 

[Gary Whitta]

Man, Huckabee has put a lot of weight back on.

 

[Cubsfan23]

watching Michelle win the Iowa straw poll basically confirmed that we could be in a great depression, and the republicans still wouldn't have anybody that would beat Obama

 

[unomas]

And I thought we couldn't get a president with less intelligence than George Bush, for god sakes.

 

[Kusagari]

Even if Bachmann wins Iowa it means nothing. She'll probably follow the same exact path the Huckster did.

 

[Tristam]

Has this been posted? Can't believe it hasn't but I can't find it on GAF through Google. May I present to you the future Republican nominee...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/05/rick-perry-college-transcript_n_919357.html


http://race42012.com/2011/08/05/perry-graduated-from-am-with-a-1-9-gpa/

A "hit piece"? Among the Tea Party faithful, this further elevates Perry's status.

 

[empty vessel]

I don't know if this is the place to ask, but I figure it's worth a shot. Do any of you guys know of a website or something that I could go to to learn about all of this political stuff? Preferably one that is easy to understand, and one that describes all of the lingo and policies. Basically politics for noobs. I vaguely know who the Michele Bachmann woman is, along with Ron Paul, but I don't know who any of these other people are. The upcoming presidential election will be the first that I participate in, and I would like to be informed on all of the potential candidates. I don't want to stay in the dark on political issues any more. I read the op, but there isn't any beginner friendly information in there, and the prospect of reading through this entire thread is daunting to say the least. Any help would be greatly appreciated, and if this isn't the right place to ask, then I'm sorry. ;p

Honestly, following along with this thread as it goes will probably work best. Read posts, click links. After a few months, you'll probably be up to speed.

I find that vastly more terrifying than the vision of him as a true believer who denies science, and I think it's more accurate. If I thought he'd actually become President, I'd be scared shitless. Instead, I think he'll end his career trying, which is why I'm pleased he's making a run for it. Zod help us all if I'm wrong and he wins.

I'll drink to that.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

A "hit piece"? Among the Tea Party faithful, this further elevates Perry's status.

I doubt this will harm him much. Among his supporters it probably just makes him more relatable in that he didn't thrive in an elitist liberal institution like... Texas A&M...

 

[Baraka in the White House]

I don't know if this is the place to ask, but I figure it's worth a shot. Do any of you guys know of a website or something that I could go to to learn about all of this political stuff? Preferably one that is easy to understand, and one that describes all of the lingo and policies. Basically politics for noobs. I vaguely know who the Michele Bachmann woman is, along with Ron Paul, but I don't know who any of these other people are. The upcoming presidential election will be the first that I participate in, and I would like to be informed on all of the potential candidates. I don't want to stay in the dark on political issues any more. I read the op, but there isn't any beginner friendly information in there, and the prospect of reading through this entire thread is daunting to say the least. Any help would be greatly appreciated, and if this isn't the right place to ask, then I'm sorry. ;p

Some of our more conservative posters might scoff at this but I started picking up and keeping up with political news through PoliGAF. There's always links to topics and stories flying around in here, just stick with it and don't be afraid to do a little extra research of your own when the opportunity presents itself and you'll be caught up before you know it.

 

[Oblivion]

I doubt this will harm him much. Among his supporters it probably just makes him more relatable in that he didn't thrive in an elitist liberal institution like... Texas A&M...

"Hey, he's an average guy. Who doesn't believe in evolution. Just like you and me."

 

[Gary Whitta]

Has this been posted? Can't believe it hasn't but I can't find it on GAF through Google. May I present to you the future Republican nominee...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/05/rick-perry-college-transcript_n_919357.html


http://race42012.com/2011/08/05/perry-graduated-from-am-with-a-1-9-gpa/

Intelligence and education don't matter when choosing a President, what matters is DO I WANT TO HAVE A BEER WITH THE GUY? [/idiot]

 

[RustyNails]

I don't know if this is the place to ask, but I figure it's worth a shot. Do any of you guys know of a website or something that I could go to to learn about all of this political stuff? Preferably one that is easy to understand, and one that describes all of the lingo and policies. Basically politics for noobs. I vaguely know who the Michele Bachmann woman is, along with Ron Paul, but I don't know who any of these other people are. The upcoming presidential election will be the first that I participate in, and I would like to be informed on all of the potential candidates. I don't want to stay in the dark on political issues any more. I read the op, but there isn't any beginner friendly information in there, and the prospect of reading through this entire thread is daunting to say the least. Any help would be greatly appreciated, and if this isn't the right place to ask, then I'm sorry. ;p

You can ask us...what would you like to know? I'm pretty sure you already know about the two modern parties: Democrat and Republican (GOP). If you know about those two, you should be good. Basically on the GOP side, Bachmann is the most conservative and Hunstman is the most moderate.

Some of our more conservative posters might scoff at this but I started picking up and keeping up with political news through PoliGAF. There's always links to topics and stories flying around in here, just stick with it and don't be afraid to do a little extra research of your own when the opportunity presents itself and you'll be caught up before you know it.

I got all my liberal brainwashing from Thom Hartmann

 

[SecretMoblin]

Honestly, following along with this thread as it goes will probably work best. Read posts, click links. After a few months, you'll probably be up to speed.

Yes. And don't be afraid to ask questions!

But I would recommend staying away from partisan blogs, at least if you're trying to learn the lingo and basic info about the candidates.

Others may disagree, but I don't think it's very helpful to hear a torrent of "She's crazy! Don't believe a word she says! She's insane!" when trying to learn about someone like Michele Bachmann. Try and find ostensibly neutral profiles of the candidates on big news sites like CNN and go from there. People can get passionate when discussing issues and candidates they feel strongly about, but try and keep an open mind.

I think most of the people on this thread are willing to be respectful and helpful -- at least from what I've seen.

 

[Clevinger]

I find that vastly more terrifying than the vision of him as a true believer who denies science, and I think it's more accurate. If I thought he'd actually become President, I'd be scared shitless. Instead, I think he'll end his career trying, which is why I'm pleased he's making a run for it. Zod help us all if I'm wrong and he wins.

How do you think Obama will do with him in debates?

 

[speculawyer]

And that's my point. Making it about the science suggests he has actual principles by which his decisions are guided, which is -- I think -- a complete misunderstanding of the man.

I've been laughing at Perry and evangelical preacher friends. But I don't get the feeling he really believes in that stuff much or cares about it. He just knows that is a big part of the Texas (and American conservative) electorate. But it doesn't really matter if he believes it or not. He is willing to adjust his policy views based on what they say and that is terrifying.

 

[Hootie]

Has this been posted? Can't believe it hasn't but I can't find it on GAF through Google. May I present to you the future Republican nominee...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/05/rick-perry-college-transcript_n_919357.html


http://race42012.com/2011/08/05/perry-graduated-from-am-with-a-1-9-gpa/

Dude fucked up hard in Organic Chem lolol

 

[antonz]

Dude fucked up hard in Organic Chem lolol

Looks like he is in good company. Gore, Kerry,Bush etc were all fantastic at getting bad grades

 

[Gary Whitta]

How do you think Obama will do with him in debates?

I think Gingrich is the only Republican contender who could really challenge Obama in a debate, and he won't get that far.

Perry really reminds me of Robert Ritchie, the brainless Republican played by James Brolin that Bartlet decimated to win his second term on The West Wing. Good omen?

"Crime... boy, I don't know."

 

[Wilsongt]

Dude fucked up hard in Organic Chem lolol

Organic is really all about the professor. If you have a good professor, then you will do well. If you have a shit professor, then good luck. I had a shit professor for the first part of Organic. Some ancient guy who had been there forever and a day who taught theory in lecture and then gave problems on the exam. Then I got to organic II, had to learn everything I was suppose to learn from Organic I but didn't due to said shit professor, then proceeded to do great due to excellent TAs and an excellent professor and came out of the course with a much better grade.

 

[maximum360]

Parry didn't beat anyone? That's disappointing.

I see what you did there.

 

[Kusagari]

The funniest thing to me is that he only got a C in gym.

 

[Wilsongt]

The funniest thing to me is that he only got a C in gym.

He was probably too busying praying to study or to go to class.

 

[Gary Whitta]

This Thaddeus guy is creepy but he's really good at memorizing his answers.

 

[Stinkles]

I'm actually pissed, because if we're going to have a two party system, they should both be serious. Republican party is completely bankrupt. Every thinking Republican gaf-er should be terrified and truly embarrassed.

 

[Wes]

I think Gingrich is the only Republican contender who could really challenge Obama in a debate, and he won't get that far.

Perry really reminds me of Robert Ritchie, the brainless Republican played by James Brolin that Bartlet decimated to win his second term on The West Wing. Good omen?

"Crime... boy, I don't know."

Now he's going to throw a big word at you. "Unfunded mandate."

 

[Gary Whitta]

Now he's going to throw a big word at you. "Unfunded mandate."

That's two words, not one big word.

 

[The Chosen One]

If two years ago you told me that Michelle Bachmann would not only be running for President but would also be leading in the straw polls ahead of the Republican Presidential Primary, I would have thought you insane.

But here we are. The GOP is a joke party right now. No serious party would have Michelle Bachmann as a leading candidate for President.

 

[Gary Whitta]

I'm actually pissed, because if we're going to have a two party system, they should both be serious. Republican party is completely bankrupt. Every thinking Republican gaf-er should be terrified and truly embarrassed.

I agree, it's terrifying how much the GOP has been hijacked by the far right. This whole Iowa circus is really a contest to see who can come across as the most right-wing. I'm really nervous that the country is going to wind up being run by one of these clowns. Are any of them capable of doing anything other than parroting vague platitudes about the Constitution? I guess that's all you need to do to win over Tea Party voters.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Now he's going to throw a big word at you. "Unfunded mandate."

Perry "Unfunded-mandate. Fixed?"

 

[Piecake]

I'm actually pissed, because if we're going to have a two party system, they should both be serious. Republican party is completely bankrupt. Every thinking Republican gaf-er should be terrified and truly embarrassed.

those still exist?

 

[Wes]

That's two words, not one big word.

Eskimo poetry.

 

[Stinkles]

those still exist?

somewhere there is a twenty-something gaf-er who dresses and acts exactly like his dad, fumbling with the shitball ideas clanging through his brain as he attempts to be enthused about Bachmann. Its a testament to how fucking ridiculous she is that it hasn't happened yet.

 

[speculawyer]

I'm actually pissed, because if we're going to have a two party system, they should both be serious. Republican party is completely bankrupt. Every thinking Republican gaf-er should be terrified and truly embarrassed.

Yeah this. I'm neither Republican nor Democrat but I'm pretty much forced to lean Dem because the Republicans are just too far from rationality for me with the anti-evolution, anti-gay, anti-stem-cell, and other non-sense.

Bachmann . . . really? Most of her career can be summed as as violating the separation of church/state with a charter school, fighting against gay marriage, being anti-abortion even in cases of rape & incest, fighting against energy efficient lighting, and trying to get the government to stop paying its bills. Really? Is any of that going to help our economy? It is anti-science theocracy!

The conservative parties in Canada, the UK, and Australia are not as loopy as the GOP.

I agree, it's terrifying how much the GOP has been hijacked by the far right. This whole Iowa circus is really a contest to see who can come across as the most right-wing. I'm really nervous that the country is going to wind up being run by one of these clowns.

On the bright side, that will make the candidate less electable in the general.

 

[Jeels]

Has this been posted? Can't believe it hasn't but I can't find it on GAF through Google. May I present to you the future Republican nominee...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/05/rick-perry-college-transcript_n_919357.html


http://race42012.com/2011/08/05/perry-graduated-from-am-with-a-1-9-gpa/

I don't think his audience cares about how well he did in an environment of socialist elitist educated liberals. (Even though Texas A&M is a very conservative University).

 

[Gary Whitta]

Well... it's good right? By going hard at the Tea Party fanatics don't all these candidates alienate the independents they need to win?

 

[KHarvey16]

Well... it's good right? By going hard at the Tea Party fanatics don't all these candidates alienate the independents they need to win?

And hopefully motivate those who might otherwise be apathetic.

 

[Gary Whitta]

And hopefully motivate those who might otherwise be apathetic.

That too. I'd be twice as likely to get out and vote/knock on doors/whatever if I felt there was a real chance that someone as dangerous as Bachmann could actually win.

 

[Mumei]

Please just watch this lecture from Ken Miller (a biologist who is also Catholic). It explains the movement and rebranding of ID a couple decades ago and some of the recent court cases its advocates have lost. It's very informative if you don't know much about Intelligent Design.

Speaking of Ken Miller, I strongly recommend his recent book to anyone interested in the issue. Most of the main points are covered in that lecture, but the book naturally goes into more detail.

 

[Particle Physicist]

And hopefully motivate those who might otherwise be apathetic.

Oh god.. I hope so.

 

[empty vessel]

I don't think his audience cares about how well he did in an environment of socialist elitist educated liberals.

Yeah, those animal science profs are the fucking worst. I heard they've been known to assign Das Kapital as reading material. Perry's grades represent a defiant act of resistance against communism.