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PoliGAF 2011: Of Weiners, Boehners, Santorum, and Teabags

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P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
GhaleonEB said:
That's not what I've seen reported, which is 10,000 out this year and the rest of the 33,000 out by the end of 2012. Which is far too slow, as that just gets us back to the levels we were at before the 'surge'. We need to get out much faster.

Unless there has been an update reported on what Obama plans to say, which I have not seen.
Click to expand...

I should have provided the link--an administration source confirms it's 33,000 out by next summer.

Not anywhere near enough, though.
 
P

polyh3dron

Banned
Cyan said:
Wow. I mean, I knew she was banana nutbars, but holy shit.

Anyone who thinks it'd be hilarious if she got the nomination: read this article, and see if you still feel the same way.

Frightening.
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Yes, I still feel the same way. It is precisely because of the reasons put forth in the article. This kind of crazy can win a primary in this political climate but it sure as shit won't fly in a general, and if she's debating Obama he will shoot her the fuck down; it will be glorious.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Plinko said:
I should have provided the link--an administration source confirms it's 33,000 out by next summer.

Not anywhere near enough, though.
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Much better (reading the link a few posts up).

Now my concern is what comes after - continued draw down or leave the occupying force in place?
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
GhaleonEB said:
Much better (reading the link a few posts up).

Now my concern is what comes after - continued draw down or leave the occupying force in place?
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's the question. I will agree that leaving Afghanistan too quickly will result in it being in further shambles then if we did it phased.
 
J

Jackson50

Member
TacticalFox88 said:
What are we even still doing there? Regardless, the Taliban is still going to run the country. We give no reasons for the Afghan civilians to trust our soldiers, and only feed into more recruitment.
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We are doing our damnedest to facilitate political reconciliation and ensure a stable Afghanistan; nation building, essentially. Practicably, that is beyond the capabilities of the U.S. military and diplomats.

Moreover, I think it is a bit bold to assert that the Taliban is going to run the country. They are neither that powerful nor capable. Nevertheless, they can and will challenge the national government. That is why we are attempting to incorporate them into the existing constitutional framework. If we are successful, that would remove the most significant domestic challenge to the government. However, we have begun the process too late. Had we begun negotiations decidedly sooner they may have borne results. Otherwise, the Taliban are not foolish. They understand the U.S. is moving towards withdrawal. Furthermore, our continued targeting of the Taliban reinforces their resistance. I hope am wrong, but reconciliation is a pipe dream.

Additionally, the problem is not mistrust of our troops. The problem is the mistrust of the government. An incompetent, corrupt government will not engender legitimacy. And that is precisely the problem in Afghanistan. Again, a problem that is beyond our capabilities.

--- /// ---

Bros, I hate to admit it, but we are inhibiting progress. We should elect more women.

By contrast, Democratic women appear to still be more liberal than their male counterparts, where the most moderate woman (Shelley Berkley (D NV-1) with a score of -0.54) is still quite a bit more liberal than the most moderate man (Jason Altmire (D PA-4) with a score of +0.02). This is also borne out in a mean comparison test, with evidence that the Democratic women are rather more liberal than men (t=3.8, df=190, p<.01).

http://rule22.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/gop-women-as-conservative-as-the-men-are/
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O8Jhd.png
 
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polyh3dron

Banned
Republicans will continue to propagate that mistrust of government meme until they are back in power. And then they will do lots of things to warrant said mistrust.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
TacticalFox88 said:
What are we even still doing there? Regardless, the Taliban is still going to run the country. We give no reasons for the Afghan civilians to trust our soldiers, and only feed into more recruitment.
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First off, Taliban is in no way shape or form to run the country from a central standpoint. Sure, they may intimidate some podunk border towns, but the era of Taliban patrolling the streets in machine gun mounted pickup trucks is long gone. Secondly, we are trying to not repeat mistakes of Charlie Wilson's War. Back then, we helped them fight nasty people and after the nasty people were gone, so were we. That gave rise to Taliban and their system of government. If we were to leave Afghanistan after toppling Taliban in 2002, a newer Taliban would take their place. But we didn't, and instead proceeded with nation building. Will it pay off? Probably not in the short run.
 
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GhaleonEB

Member
I heard the first bit on the radio before getting home and tuning in again.

It sounds like:

10,000 troops out by the end of the year

33,000 troops out by "next summer"

A "steady" draw down from there, until all are out by the end of 2014.

Not the pace I was hoping for, but I'm glad he set an end point. Given how Obama has held to this deadline, I'm hopeful that he will meet it. (Assume he's in office then.)

This was a smart pivot to investment at home and to jobs. "It is time to focus on nation building here at home."
 
M

Measley

Junior Member
GhaleonEB said:
I heard the first bit on the radio before getting home and tuning in again.

It sounds like:

10,000 troops out by the end of the year

33,000 troops out by "next summer"

A "steady" draw down from there, until all are out by the end of 2014.

Not the pace I was hoping for, but I'm glad he set an end point. Given how Obama has held to this deadline, I'm hopeful that he will meet it. (Assume he's in office then.)

This was a smart pivot to investment at home and to jobs. "It is time to focus on nation building here at home."
Click to expand...

If McCain had won, we'd be in Afghanistan until the end of time.
 
T

tHoMNZ

Member
Measley said:
And more would have died if not for NATO intervention.
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You know this how?

Even if, doesn't make this right. At all.

So are you go going to go bomb Syria, Bahrain maybe? Fucking Hell. You'd think America would have learnt its lesson
 
G

gcubed

Member
Bulbo Urethral Baggins said:
So great. At the end of next year we'll be at twice the number of troops as when Obama took office. Great strides.
Click to expand...

He left no doubts during the campaign that he would increase presence in Afghanistan
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
Bulbo Urethral Baggins said:
So great. At the end of next year we'll be at twice the number of troops as when Obama took office. Great strides.
Click to expand...

Rachel Maddow spent 10 minutes getting to the point that you so effortlessly made in exactly 23 words. 19 if you subtract the sarcasm.
 
P

polyh3dron

Banned
Honestly, every time before someone complains about one of Obama's policies they need to think: What would McCain have done?

They also need to think about how much of a media circus Palin would have surrounding her right now if she actually was VP.
 
G

gcubed

Member
polyh3dron said:
Honestly, every time before someone complains about one of Obama's policies they need to think: What would McCain have done?

They also need to think about how much of a media circus Palin would have surrounding her right now if she actually was VP.
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Better than the other guy is a horrible trend in politics
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Bulbo Urethral Baggins said:
That's true but I'm not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.
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Obama just said clearly that we'd be out by the end of 2014 under the draw down plan he described. We're on track to hitting the deadline in Iraq, and Obama is initiating this withdrawal on the schedule he described early last year. I see no reason to believe he's not serious about hitting it.

It is my preference to be out tomorrow. But Obama did clearly lay out a final exit strategy.

Also, with Wiener now out of the picture, I propose an udpated thread title to keep it relevant:

Of Boehners, Santorums, Teabags and Pull Outs
 
I

Incognito

Troll
not to be a diablos (i keed diablos!) but what's up with obama's numbers at gallup? he went from 49-43 to 43-49 in a span of two whole days. wtf? they change their voter models? something happen i miss?
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
So...the troop drawdown is basically Obama's way of apologizing for killing Bin Laden?
 
B

Bulbo Urethral Baggins

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
Obama just said clearly that we'd be out by the end of 2014 under the draw down plan he described. We're on track to hitting the deadline in Iraq, and Obama is initiating this withdrawal on the schedule he described early last year. I see no reason to believe he's not serious about hitting it.

It is my preference to be out tomorrow. But Obama did clearly lay out a final exit strategy.

Also, with Wiener now out of the picture, I propose an udpated thread title to keep it relevant:

Of Boehners, Santorums, Teabags and Pull Outs
Click to expand...
Obama said : "Our mission will change from combat to support. By 2014, this process of transition will be complete, and the Afghan people will be responsible for their own security."
What does that even mean? Is that clear to everyone here?
I'm guessing it's similar to the Iraq situation.

Both of these wars have been such huge disasters, but Afghanistan seems the biggest failure to me. It should have been over long ago.
I hope and want to believe that this country has learned a serious lesson from these misguided policies. I sure have anyway.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Incognito said:
not to be a diablos (i keed diablos!) but what's up with obama's numbers at gallup? he went from 49-43 to 43-49 in a span of two whole days. wtf? they change their voter models? something happen i miss?
Click to expand...

People are beginning to blame the economy more on him than Bush. He's fucked
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
PhoenixDark said:
People are beginning to blame the economy more on him than Bush. He's fucked
Click to expand...

No way. There was a poll just last week or so that had a significant majority of people still blaming Bush over Obama for the economy.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Incognito said:
not to be a diablos (i keed diablos!) but what's up with obama's numbers at gallup? he went from 49-43 to 43-49 in a span of two whole days. wtf? they change their voter models? something happen i miss?
Click to expand...

Might have to do with the recent news that the long form birth certificate Obama released was proven to be a forgery.
 
B

Byakuya769

Member
Obama's dealing with the results of pushing for an inadequate stimulus and then proclaiming that stimulus to be adequate as we sit at around 9% unemployment. Probably why he can't hold on to any good economists, who wants to advise someone who's constantly going to ignore you do to self prescribed "political reality". Welp, let's fix the deficit. That will get this economy going....
 
C

Clevinger

Member
Incognito said:
not to be a diablos (i keed diablos!) but what's up with obama's numbers at gallup? he went from 49-43 to 43-49 in a span of two whole days. wtf? they change their voter models? something happen i miss?
Click to expand...

Happens a lot. Not long after Bin Laden took a trip to the sea, his approval took a nose dive. Shortly after that it flew back up to 52 or something.
 
I

Incognito

Troll
How the White House played Petraeus

Earlier this year, as the administration began to gather inputs for this review, National Security Adviser Thomas Donilon and Defense Secretary Robert Gates both sent word informally that any leaks would be interpreted by the president as insubordination and as an attempt to irregularly influence public opinion, and that they would be called out (the leaks themselves, not the leakers, assuming they weren’t findable) and would harden the president’s own convictions. Obama’s implicit promise, in turn, was that he would be guided by the intelligence and the inputs if they were honest, and that he would keep the current strategy in place.
Click to expand...

There simply was not a transnational threat coming out of Afghanistan. Afghanistan and Pakistan have a future that’s interrelated, and Pakistan needed assurance that the government in Kabul could stand on its own two feet, one that would not rely on, say, India as a crutch.

Today, Obama needed to justify withdrawing troops so he can tell more of the truth: indeed, a senior administration official, in a conference call today, said this: “The al-Qaida threat does come from Pakistan. That is where they were hunkered down.” And: “There is no transnational threat—no terrorist threat—from Afghanistan.”

The official even acknowledged what heretofore had been unmentionable: that the United States was prosecuting an aggressive campaign inside Pakistan, sometimes without their knowledge, using assets both “human and technical,” a reference to the CIA’s successful drone attacks and to U.S. special forces raids along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border.

Petraeus is a great general. Here, he may have out-generaled himself.
Click to expand...
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
Bulbo Urethral Baggins said:
Obama said : "Our mission will change from combat to support. By 2014, this process of transition will be complete, and the Afghan people will be responsible for their own security."
What does that even mean? Is that clear to everyone here?
I'm guessing it's similar to the Iraq situation.

Both of these wars have been such huge disasters, but Afghanistan seems the biggest failure to me. It should have been over long ago.
I hope and want to believe that this country has learned a serious lesson from these misguided policies. I sure have anyway.
Click to expand...
We didn't learn it after Vietnam, and won't after these two. FFS we blew into Iraq with the minimum troops required and no realistic plan for nation-building or maintaining security. How much lazier could Rumsfeld be?
 
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