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PoliGAF 2011: Of Weiners, Boehners, Santorum, and Teabags

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T

ToxicAdam

Member
brucewaynegretzky said:
Ok so I'm just coming here to vent:

I'm a regular Drudge reader. I like keeping up with what the hell conservatives are reading, despite being a pretty big dem. Normally I think he's actually pretty good if you ignore the crazy headline, and even that's only sometimes. But today was rather infuriating. First, the headline blasts Obama for going on vacation while joblessness goes up. Isn't this the EXACT SAME THING as when they defended Bush for going on vacation? Personally I think it was stupid to call out either Pres, they can do the most important functions of their job while on vacation, and there's no reason they shouldn't take a vacation, but to so obviously make the exact same claim is fucking retarded.
Click to expand...

Drudge will often blast Democrats for the same things they blasted Bush with. It's that tit-for-tat hypocrisy game that blogs like to play. It really brings down the discourse in this country, but both sides are equally guilty. Although, Republicans appear to provide more fodder.

How the fuck does this shit pass for journalism. I always get pissed at HP for being intellectually dishonest, and I actually think Drudge is more consistent in presenting a "neutral" report despite sensationalist headlines that often will shape the readers' response. This shit today though is fucking insane.
Click to expand...

Drudge has always (purposely) passed his site as sensationlist and slanted. He modeled it after the old rags of the past.

If you want a better way to quickly look at what the chattering class are talking about, I use Polurls.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Five Facts About Rick Perry:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/fast-fix/fast-fix-five-fast-facts-rick-perry-091445346.html

1. Perry was a yell leader at Texas A&M University. It's a much sought-after position and an early indication of Perry's political aspirations.

2. He used to be a Democrat. Perry was elected to a West Texas state House seat in 1984 as a Democrat and even served as Al Gore's Texas chairman during the 1988 presidential race. He switched to the GOP in 1989.

3. Perry's first statewide office in Texas was as Agriculture Commissioner. Expect him to remind Iowa voters of that fact early and often given the state's farming-based economy.

4. Perry is the longest serving governor in the country currently. He took office in December 2000 after George W. Bush was elected president and won a third full term in 2010. That means a long record to run on -- or from.

5. Perry is a big believer in states' right and the 10th amendment. He once floated the idea that Texas could secede if the federal government kept overstepping its bounds.
Click to expand...

Game over, Perry. Unless people spin that into him finally "seeing the light of his evil liberal ways" and switching to the "correct" party.
 
I

Invisible_Insane

Member
Wilsongt said:
Game over, Perry. Unless people spin that into him finally "seeing the light of his evil liberal ways" and switching to the "correct" party.
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Party identification is sensitive to the the time period in question.
Anyone with up to an 8th grade education should understand this.

And as besada has pointed out, being a Democrat in Texas is not the same thing as being a Democrat elsewhere in the country. (I'm taking his word for it, all I know about Texas is something to do with steers and queers.)
 
B

Byakuya769

Member
Wilsongt said:
Game over, Perry. Unless people spin that into him finally "seeing the light of his evil liberal ways" and switching to the "correct" party.
Click to expand...

I don't think his party affiliation from over 20 years ago will matter that much.
 
T

ToxicAdam

Member
Isn't it kind of sad that we have been conditioned to discredit people immediately if they have changed positions over the years? Yet, almost all of us have evolved our opinions about subjects over the years as we learn more and experience more.

Yet, we respect the people that remain ideologically rigid from the moment they are politically aware until the day the die. That doesn't mean some of these people aren't worthy of respect, but it doesn't mean most are.

Seems we have it backwards.
 
I

Invisible_Insane

Member
ToxicAdam said:
Isn't it kind of sad that we have been conditioned to discredit people immediately if they have changed positions over the years? Yet, almost all of us have evolved our opinions about subjects over the years as we learn more and experience more.

Yet, we respect the people that remain ideologically rigid from the moment they are politically aware until the day the die.
Click to expand...
I agree with you completely. The trouble is that I don't think we have a media/political culture capable of appreciating the difference between legitimate, substantive changes in one's views and opportunistic hypocrisy. I do have to say (and I'm kind of young, so I may be wrong) that it does seem like the charges of "flip-flopping" are directed more right-to-left than the other way around.

In other news, Nouriel Roubini is calling double-dip.
 
G

gcubed

Member
SoulPlaya said:
Damn, what's up with the stock market today? Is it the bad labor news?
Click to expand...

a few larger companies downgrading their outlooks. The labor news isn't all bad, the rolling average is almost below 400k
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Invisible_Insane said:
On a completely different track:

And it only took how many civilian deaths?
Click to expand...


Yeah should he have said this after the first 100 deaths instead? And I can see some people saying that he should completely stay out of it.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
SoulPlaya said:
Damn, what's up with the stock market today? Is it the bad labor news?
Click to expand...


And we had TERRIBLE global news today. Germany, Britain, Japan, India, etc ALL had stock market falls of 2.0%-3.5%. It's not just an American thing.
 
I

Incognito

Troll
B

besada

Banned
brucewaynegretzky said:
First, the headline blasts Obama for going on vacation while joblessness goes up. Isn't this the EXACT SAME THING as when they defended Bush for going on vacation?
Click to expand...

It's particularly stupid because Congress is on vacation, which makes the President fairly pointless when it comes to passing new legislation, which is what's required to do anything about the economy.

I had this argument with my brother the other day, and pointed out that it's a dumb story that gets rolled out on every President. I remember the flak Carter took for it (although at least he fought a vicious water bunny and entertained the nation), the flak Reagan took for it, etc. ad nauseam.

It's just an easy piece to write for lazy journalists to generate some attention.
 
N

Novid

Banned
Get ready for a huge, huge increace in Job loss. There was a masssive increace in Food Stamps in July and the start of Aug.
 
I

Invisible_Insane

Member
Weekly Bitching About Media:

WNYC (New York Public Radio) hosts a weekly live text-chat on their website. Today they have on the editor of some centrist/independent blog who more or less accuses me of being a partisan hack because I said that splitting the difference between Democrats and Republicans does not yield objective truth. I think speculawyer has some pithy way of expressing that statement (which I did not use).

Why is that claim such heresy?

And since I'm on a roll with this combining completely unrelated topics stuff: yield on 10-year t-notes is below 2% today. DEBTCRISIS. If I look under my bed tonight, I expect to find some bond vigilantes.
 
B

brucewaynegretzky

Member
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
besada said:
It's particularly stupid because Congress is on vacation, which makes the President fairly pointless when it comes to passing new legislation, which is what's required to do anything about the economy.

I had this argument with my brother the other day, and pointed out that it's a dumb story that gets rolled out on every President. I remember the flak Carter took for it (although at least he fought a vicious water bunny and entertained the nation), the flak Reagan took for it, etc. ad nauseam.

It's just an easy piece to write for lazy journalists to generate some attention.
Click to expand...
Maybe there really does need to be a ZERO DOWNTIME: INFINITE PRODUCTIVITY version of the meme.
 
B

Byakuya769

Member
Invisible_Insane said:
Weekly Bitching About Media:

WNYC (New York Public Radio) hosts a weekly live text-chat on their website. Today they have on the editor of some centrist/independent blog who more or less accuses me of being a partisan hack because I said that splitting the difference between Democrats and Republicans does not yield objective truth. I think speculawyer has some pithy way of expressing that statement (which I did not use).

Why is that claim such heresy?

And since I'm on a roll with this combining completely unrelated topics stuff: yield on 10-year t-notes is below 2% today. DEBTCRISIS. If I look under my bed tonight, I expect to find some bond vigilantes.
Click to expand...

Because no one wants to invest the energy in pursuing that truth (whatever you think it may be, right/left/center), so splitting the difference is the most intellectual lazy way to try and come off as informed.
 
T

Tristam

Member
ToxicAdam said:
Isn't it kind of sad that we have been conditioned to discredit people immediately if they have changed positions over the years? Yet, almost all of us have evolved our opinions about subjects over the years as we learn more and experience more.

Yet, we respect the people that remain ideologically rigid from the moment they are politically aware until the day the die. That doesn't mean some of these people aren't worthy of respect, but it doesn't mean most are.

Seems we have it backwards.
Click to expand...

Yet, as besada has pointed out multiple times, Perry has undergone no such ideological transformation. The man has no principles to speak of except the hunger for more power, a la Rove or Atwater.
 
T

ToxicAdam

Member
Tristam said:
Yet, as besada has pointed out multiple times, Perry has undergone no such ideological transformation. The man has no principles to speak of except the hunger for more power, a la Rove or Atwater.
Click to expand...

How exactly can you discern and quantify that? He was a conservative Democrat in the 80's and thought Gore represented his interests, also. Then made a decidely opportunistic move shortly thereafter to ressurect his career and has remained essentially the same since.

The leap this guy made wasn't exactly an Arlen Specter move.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
brucewaynegretzky said:
This is kind of nuts, but at the same time I don't buy that the name change has anything to do with the job change.
Click to expand...
Yeah, they need to figure out if they are related occurrences. If not, this is lame bashing. But if they are right, that is amazingly deceitful.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Invisible_Insane said:
Weekly Bitching About Media:

WNYC (New York Public Radio) hosts a weekly live text-chat on their website. Today they have on the editor of some centrist/independent blog who more or less accuses me of being a partisan hack because I said that splitting the difference between Democrats and Republicans does not yield objective truth. I think speculawyer has some pithy way of expressing that statement (which I did not use).

Why is that claim such heresy?
Click to expand...
I would understand calling that 'partisan' but not 'partisan hack' . . . I think a partisan hack is when you support a particular side despite massive hypocrisy or objective evidence that contradicts your position.
 
M

Macam

Banned
Incognito said:
will stoop at nothing:

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2...g-interests-as-a-top-staffer-to-darrell-issa/
Click to expand...
.

That shouldn't surprise anyone familiar with Rep. Issa. The NYT did a great piece on just what kind of Congressman Issa is.

VISTA, Calif. — Here on the third floor of a gleaming office building overlooking a golf course in the rugged foothills north of San Diego, Darrell Issa, the entrepreneur, oversees the hub of a growing financial empire worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

Just a few steps down the hall, Representative Darrell Issa, the powerful Republican congressman, runs the local district office where his constituents come for help.

The proximity of the two offices reflects Mr. Issa’s dual careers, a meshing of public and private interests rarely seen in government.

Most wealthy members of Congress push their financial activities to the side, with many even placing them in blind trusts to avoid appearances of conflicts of interest. But Mr. Issa (pronounced EYE-suh), one of Washington’s richest lawmakers, may be alone in the hands-on role he has played in overseeing a remarkable array of outside business interests since his election in 2000.
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I

Incognito

Troll
tpm has a follow up on the issa staffer and former goldman VP changing his last name:

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsme...nged_name_to_honor_transylvanian_heritage.php
A staffer working for Rep. Darrell Issa's Oversight Committee on financial regulation issues has come under scrutiny by ThinkProgress for changing his name after he left his previous position at Goldman Sachs. The story implied that he changed his name three years ago to hide his background with the company.

But Peter Haller, formerly known as Peter Simonyi, said in a statement to TPM says he and his sister switched their names a few years back to respect the last wish of his grandfather to carry on his mother's family name.

His mother's father, Alfred haller-koi gr Haller, was killed in Budapest in 1944 by Fascists as he tried to stop children from being conscripted into the military, Haller said.

"As my sister and I became adults, at some point discussions began that we should carry on the name of my mother's family, which had lived in Transylvania, up until it was granted to Romania under the Treaty of Trianon after World War I," Haller said.

"During a period of unemployment following my time at Goldman Sachs, I found the time to proceed with the name change, as did my sister," Haller said. "Please note my father and mother remain happily married to this day."
Click to expand...
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Incognito said:
tpm has a follow up on the issa staffer and former goldman VP changing his last name:

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsme...nged_name_to_honor_transylvanian_heritage.php
Click to expand...
TPM actually contacted him for comment, which seems like the sort of thing any reporter should do. This is also worth quoting, from the article:

Haller hasn't hiden his name change. It was noted on his biography on the website of his previous employer and on his page of Legistorm, an online database of congressional salaries.
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The outlines of some scandal are there at the surface, but it doesn't look like one to me.

TacticalFox88 said:
Which is why using it as measuring stick for the economy is pointless as fuck
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Agree. And today, it's just reacting to news. Check out today's economic releases:

http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/economic-calendar/

My company's stock purchase buys tomorrow, so I'm rooting for the stock to plunge. More shares for me.
 
J

jamesinclair

Banned
Novid said:
Get ready for a huge, huge increace in Job loss. There was a masssive increace in Food Stamps in July and the start of Aug.
Click to expand...

Anecdotal:

I saw more stores close/go out of business last month than at any point this year.

And Im talking about every kind of store.

Baby store
Robeks Franchise
Sonic Franchise
Furniture Store
General Store

etc etc

We have a shit load of commercial areas that have been half empty since 2008. And now theyre getting even emptier.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Invisible_Insane said:
On a completely different track:

And it only took how many civilian deaths?
Click to expand...
I want to preface this by saying that I found Obama's such a delayed response pretty despicable. I mean, how long did it take for him to call Mubarak to stand down? And Mubarak stepped down within 17 days of the start of the revolution. This shit has been going on for months with no end in sight, and suddenly the state dept realizes something needs to be said. Unacceptable.

With that being said, saying a leader has lost legitimacy to rule are the words you say when you are 100% sure about what you want. Once you say these words, you can't go back to being friends/lift sanctions/mend ties, etc with the country. Calling for a leader to step down would mean that you will never negotiate with the government ever in the future, assuming the regime prevails and protestors lose (depressing thought). Unlike Egypt or Libya, Syria actually has backers: Russia and Iran, that made things more complicated. US is now set on a diplomatic collision course with these two states. I guess we are in a perpetual diplomatic collision course with Iran, but this just makes things slightly more difficult.
Incognito said:
tpm has a follow up on the issa staffer and former goldman VP changing his last name:

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsme...nged_name_to_honor_transylvanian_heritage.php
Click to expand...
I don't want anything to happen to Darrel Issa. He has an amazing immigration reform bill in the house which should be used as a framework for the big overhaul.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Invisible_Insane said:
Well, this about seals it for Jonny. See y'all in 2016!
Click to expand...
As he replied, the boy’s mother urged him to ask about evolution. Perry answered, "It's a theory that is out there. It's got some gaps in it. In Texas, we teach both creationism and evolution in our public schools because I figure you're smart enough to figure out which one is right."
Click to expand...
So... Perry believes one is right and one is wrong. I love the notion that he thinks it's a good idea to teach children something he thinks is incorrect, which is stupid in the first place but also a waste of time, and then let them sort out the mess.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Perry heckled and says that he thinks evolution is just some theory.



t1larg.perry.aug18.jpg





The protesters were largely outnumbered by supporters as well as those looking for a glimpse of the latest entrant into the race for the Republican presidential nomination.
Perry received a similar reception at his second event of the day in Dover. But he did not seem disturbed by the commotion, as he signed autographs and mugged for a camera as he chewed a bite of popover. Despite the loud chanting, Perry made two loops of the outdoor seating area at the cafe to shake people's hands.

Several feet away Democratic protesters from the Alliance for Retired Americans held signs warning Perry to "Back Off My Social Security."
Perry criticized the entitlement program in a book, calling it a "Ponzi scheme" and a "failure."

"That's a stunning position to take and I don't think that's going to go over well in New Hampshire," said State Rep. Robin Read, D-Portsmouth.

One woman who did not appear to be affiliated with the protesters ushered her son up to the governor and prompted him with questions for Perry like "do you believe in evolution?"
"It's a theory that's out there," Perry told the child. "It's got some gaps in it. In Texas we teach both Creationism and evolution."
The mother then told her young son: "Ask him why he doesn't believe in science," as Perry continued into the cafe.
​


#####################


Why is it so hard for these folks to believe in evolution? I can understand why religiously he'd believe that man was created literally by god, but why undermine all of science by stating that evolution is just some thought?

And we (Texas) really teach creationism in school?
 
T

Tristam

Member
ToxicAdam said:
How exactly can you discern and quantify that? He was a conservative Democrat in the 80's and thought Gore represented his interests, also. Then made a decidely opportunistic move shortly thereafter to ressurect his career and has remained essentially the same since.

The leap this guy made wasn't exactly an Arlen Specter move.
Click to expand...

Well, you were arguing in favor of ideological progression, but as you're saying, he hasn't demonstrated that--just opportunism. A change of party--particularly for a Texas Democrat--doesn't represent any transformation. I'm sure his true beliefs skew clearly conservative, but for Perry, ideology is still secondary to the pursuit of power.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
mckmas8808 said:
Perry heckled and says that he thinks evolution is just some theory.



t1larg.perry.aug18.jpg





The protesters were largely outnumbered by supporters as well as those looking for a glimpse of the latest entrant into the race for the Republican presidential nomination.
Perry received a similar reception at his second event of the day in Dover. But he did not seem disturbed by the commotion, as he signed autographs and mugged for a camera as he chewed a bite of popover. Despite the loud chanting, Perry made two loops of the outdoor seating area at the cafe to shake people's hands.

Several feet away Democratic protesters from the Alliance for Retired Americans held signs warning Perry to "Back Off My Social Security."
Perry criticized the entitlement program in a book, calling it a "Ponzi scheme" and a "failure."

"That's a stunning position to take and I don't think that's going to go over well in New Hampshire," said State Rep. Robin Read, D-Portsmouth.

One woman who did not appear to be affiliated with the protesters ushered her son up to the governor and prompted him with questions for Perry like "do you believe in evolution?"
"It's a theory that's out there," Perry told the child. "It's got some gaps in it. In Texas we teach both Creationism and evolution."
The mother then told her young son: "Ask him why he doesn't believe in science," as Perry continued into the cafe.
​


#####################


Why is it so hard for these folks to believe in evolution? I can understand why religiously he'd believe that man was created literally by god, but why undermine all of science by stating that evolution is just some thought?

And we (Texas) really teach creationism in school?
Click to expand...
Evolution IS just a theory....that happens to be fact.

He's being horrendously stupid.
 
A

Averon

Member
http://www.fox59.com/news/politics/sns-rt-us-ohio-union-fighttre77h0f7-20110817,0,4907155.story

Ohio governor signals desire to compromise on anti-union law


COLUMBUS (Reuters) - Ohio Governor John Kasich and leading Republican lawmakers said on Wednesday they want to negotiate with opponents of a law curbing public sector union rights to prevent the measure from going to a public referendum this fall.

But leaders of organized labor quickly signaled they were unwilling to compromise and said they looked forward to putting the controversial curbs that Kasich backed earlier this year before voters in November.

Unions and opponents of the law, which bans strikes and limits bargaining rights for public employees including teachers, firefighters and police officers, have already gathered over three times the number of signatures needed to put the issue on the ballot.

...


Republican Senate President Tom Niehaus said this emotionally charged issue was causing his constituents to ask this question: "Why can't you just sit down and work this out? What's the big deal"?

A spokeswoman for the umbrella group that represents unions and Democrats said she wonders where this spirit of compromise was this winter, when opponents of the bill were locked out of the Ohio Statehouse as lawmakers were considering the plan.
Click to expand...

Wis elections spooked them? Or maybe they see the writings on the wall and realized they overreached.
 
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