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PoliGAF 2011: Of Weiners, Boehners, Santorum, and Teabags

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speculawyer said:
Yeah . . . the fan is couple thousand years closer than you realize.

I know, that's the point. It's useless to suck it out of the ground now. I wasn't meaning to say that 4025 was when we would run out of oil. I was (jokingly) saying that some unimaginably immense future crisis might make us glad that oil was never touched.

Synth_floyd said:
The strategic reserve makes no sense. If we ever got in the situation where we really needed it then what good would that amount of oil do? We could keep our country going for a couple of weeks/months maybe? Or just ration it out to the rich/government elite? It's like a guy with an apocalypse shelter. If the shit really hits the fan, then does it really matter if your bunker can keep you going for another 2 weeks?

That's exactly what makes the nature more valuable than the oil. And this is coming from somebody that doesn't value nature.
 

Piecake

Member
Synth_floyd said:
The strategic reserve makes no sense. If we ever got in the situation where we really needed it then what good would that amount of oil do? Or just ration it out to the rich/government elite? We could keep our country going for a couple of weeks/months maybe? It's like a guy with an apocalypse shelter. If the shit really hits the fan, then does it really matter if your bunker can keep you going for another 2 weeks?

well, you feel smugly superior that you were one of the few smart enough to build a bunker, then die a horribly slow, painful death alone while everyone else died a quick death togethr
 

ToxicAdam

Member
empty vessel said:
No, we'd have to send people there to do it. Why don't we create jobs where people already are? It's not like we can't.

The history of this country has been about creating jobs where there aren't people. Even recently, our Federal Government recruited and moved thousands of people to become our border patrol.

Those are all indirect benefits, all of which could be accomplished in ways that actually do provide direct benefits (i.e., provide meaningful services to or create meaningful goods for Americans). Oil is the past, not the future.

You have a pretty limited scope of what 'meaningful' means. Oil products are going to be desperately needed for the next 2-3 decades regardless of how much money we pour into 'green technology' that may one day supplant it.

Oil is the past and the near future.

Every resource (public or private) spent on it from here forward is ultimately wasted. The nature preserve is more valuable to our future than the oil.

It's a project that will cost our government zero dollars to initiate and will generate billions of dollars in revenues and help clothe, feed and educate thousands of it's families for an entire generation. How can you merely ignore that as a net benefit to society?

There is no current program/idea that could produce that spectacular of a ROI.
 
ToxicAdam said:
It's a project that will cost our government zero dollars to initiate and will generate billions of revenues and help clothe, feed and educate thousands of it's families for an entire generation. How can you merely ignore that as a net benefit to society?

The difference between us (and this is an obvious one) is that, unlike you, I don't distinguish between private and public costs (I look at our social wealth as a whole). They are both social costs. I would prefer private investment just as much as public investment go in directions that provide direct benefits and are directed to our future. But as I said, I would readily agree with you if I didn't think ready alternatives to job creation were available. I don't like to be bullied by powerful enforcers of the status quo, though.
 
Gonaria said:
don't you mean the shit?
We are the shit. :)

Gonaria said:
But yea, I'd have to agree with not drilling into that Alaskan nature preserve. Would rather just spend all of that money on green tech since that is what is actually going to help us in the future and create more tech savy (aka better jobs)
What money? The government has no money.

The money that would be used for drilling is in private investor hands and they'll only spend it if they think they'll see a decent return. And drilling is a way to get a return. They'll spend & create some jobs in the process. And the government get a cut of profits which they can then use on green tech.
 
Flying_Phoenix said:
Wouldn't the ANWR only supply us with oil for one year?
Predicting the size of reserves is still more of an art than a science. But yes, by some estimates if we instantly sucked all the ANWR oil out (which is impossible) it would only last us a year.

But that is part of the point that needs to be shown . . . ANWR is not going to save us. It is not even going to lower gas prices by a dime. Buy you are not going to get the AM radio listeners to believe that so you have to let them learn the hard way.
 

HyperionX

Member
empty vessel said:
I know, that's the point. It's useless to suck it out of the ground now. I wasn't meaning to say that 4025 was when we would run out of oil. I was (jokingly) saying that some unimaginably immense future crisis might make us glad that oil was never touched.



That's exactly what makes the nature more valuable than the oil. And this is coming from somebody that doesn't value nature.

I'm pretty sure oil would be quite useless in 2000 years.
 
HyperionX said:
I'm pretty sure oil would be quite useless in 2000 years.

Probably. That's why it was said in jest. (I'm not really predicting the great economic crisis of 4025.)

But if it happens, I totally did.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
evil%20obama.jpg



http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/da...s-manning-to-lose-obama-is-evil-sign-outside-


--- /// ---


The book business just ain't what it used to be:

! Two weeks after Christine O'Donnell's book Troublemaker was released, Nielsen Bookscan tells me that it has sold -- drum roll -- 2000 copies. For context, Newt Gingrich's latest book A Nation Like No Other has sold 5000 copies.

link
 
Dick Cheney is doing his part to help Obama win Michigan.

Former Vice President Dick Cheney was strongly opposed to saving General Motors and Chrysler and tried to convince then-President George W. Bush not to approve a proposed bailout of the floundering Detroit automakers.

Ultimately, the outgoing Commander-in-Chief decided to approve a partial rescue, at a cost of $17.4 billion for GM and Chrysler and another $7.5 billion for Chrysler Financial and what was then known as GMAC. The money helped carry the two manufacturers and their lending arms through until early 2009 when the White House guard changed, newly-elected Pres. Barack Obama authorizing billions more in rescue money.

“Although I understood the reasoning, I would have preferred that the government not get involved and was disappointed — but not surprised — when the Obama Administration significantly increased the government intervention in the automobile industry shortly after taking office,” the oft-controversial Cheney writes in his new memoir, “In My Time.”
It is still remarkable how the fates of the related oil industry and car industry went in such different paths. The car companies essentially all went bankrupt. GM & Chrysler literally went bankrupt and Ford would have also gone under if not for subsidies they were given to retool for green cars and the fact that GM & Chrysler were bailed out thus saving suppliers that Ford depended upon.

Meanwhile, the oil industry went on to become the most profitable business in all of mankind. You have power when you control an inelastic market with increasing demand and slowing supply.

The oil biz became so big that it could stab car makers in the back. The very companies that build the product needed to consume oil. If you buy a cheap car today, you will spend more money on gasoline over the car's lifetime than you spent buying the car.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
Since we have oil on the brain ... THIS is interesting.

MOSCOW — Exxon Mobil won a coveted prize in the global petroleum industry Tuesday with an agreement to explore for oil in a Russian portion of the Arctic Ocean that is being opened for drilling even as Alaskan waters remain mostly off limits.

The agreement seemed to supersede a similar but failed deal that Russia’s state oil company, Rosneft, reached with the British oil giant BP this year — with a few striking differences.

Where BP had planned to swap stock, Exxon, which is based in Texas, agreed to give Rosneft assets elsewhere in the world, including some that Exxon owns in the deepwater zones of the Gulf of Mexico and on land in Texas.

I believe this will cause quite a stink in Congress.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/31/business/global/exxon-and-rosneft-partner-in-russian-oil-deal.html
 
ToxicAdam said:
Since we have oil on the brain ... THIS is interesting.



I believe this will cause quite a stink in Congress.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/31/business/global/exxon-and-rosneft-partner-in-russian-oil-deal.html
Yeah, I found that quite interesting as well.

You gotta wonder about that deal. Who got that better part of that deal? Maybe the Russians feel they traded useless rights in the polar region for a sure thing down in Texas? Or maybe Exxon got the better end of the deal with real oil field and they have the technology to drill it?

I have no clue. Exxon must feel they can do it since they signed the deal. But I just can't imagine drilling for oil with all that ice floating around. Maybe they have good detachable technology?

BTW, I have no problem with the Ruskies drilling in the Gulf as long as they are closely monitored. That's better than having the leases unused I guess.
 
Cheney drops a bomb on McCain in his book

On September 24, 2008, Republican presidential nominee John McCain announced he was suspending his presidential campaign to come back to Washington to deal with the financial crisis. It was a move that frankly surprised many of us in the White House. After all, there really wasn't much John could actually do, and it seemed pretty risky to announce the campaign suspension and head back to Washington without being clear about what you could actually deliver. But we wanted McCain to win, so when he asked the president to convene the congressional leadership in the Cabinet Room of the White House to discuss the financial crisis, the president did it. He called Senator Obama, McCain's opponent, and asked him to be there as well. What unfolded that day in the West Wing was likely unique in the annals of American presidential contests.

[...]

When the president turned to Senator McCain to speak, he passed. Since he had called for the meeting in the first place, that was a surprise. After a few other people expressed their opinions, most of them negative, the president came back to McCain. This time he spoke, but only for himself. It was a marked contrast with Obama, whose words carried the authority of all the Democrats in the room. Senator McCain added nothing of substance. It was entirely unclear why he'd returned to Washington and why he'd wanted the congressional leadership called together. I left the Cabinet Room when the meeting was over thinking the Republican presidential ticket was in trouble.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/30/dick-cheney-book-john-mccain_n_941573.html

I think McCain would have lost regardless, but that decision made people realize he simply wasn't serious at fucking all.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
PhoenixDark said:
Cheney drops a bomb on McCain in his book


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/30/dick-cheney-book-john-mccain_n_941573.html

I think McCain would have lost regardless, but that decision made people realize he simply wasn't serious at fucking all.
McCain was so stupid, and this was one of the dumbest political stunts of the last few decades. Not shocking that we see more and more confirmation that it was a pointless stunt and not substantive at all. McCain was so useless. Is.
 
jamesinclair said:
Our proud american patriotic (massivly subsidized) free market companies are giving away our american resources to, of all people, the russians?

This is wonderful.
The irony in politics and history never ceases to amaze me.
 
jamesinclair said:
Our proud american patriotic (massivly subsidized) free market companies are giving away our american resources to, of all people, the russians?

This is wonderful.
If this was Obama making the deal people on the right would be going fucking nonlinear with vitriol. But this is Exxon making the deal. So exactly who is going to take on Exxon?
 

Cyan

Banned
speculawyer said:
If this was Obama making the deal people on the right would be going fucking nonlinear with vitriol. But this is Exxon making the deal. So exactly who is going to take on Exxon?
Joe Barton?

"I'd like to apologize to Exxon..."
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face

Jackson50

Member
The scant hope of fostering political reconciliation with the Taliban has likely disappeared. Apparently, the normally trustworthy and deft Karzai Administration sabotaged the nascent negotiations. Of course, reconciliation is a pipe dream. Meanwhile, as civilian deaths reached record levels in the first half of 2011 and corruption remains rampant, we continue to waste billions in that quagmire. Have I noted the disconcerting inattention to Afghanistan's governance problem?
PhoenixDark said:
Never-Wrong Pundit Picks Obama to Win in 2012
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/wa...never-wrong-pundit-picks-obama-to-win-in-2012

Seems like a rosy analysis to me
Yes, too rosy. Admittedly, I am unfamiliar with the intricacies of Lichtman's model; I would like to examine its theoretical underpinnings before I confidently critique it. Nevertheless, I am not sure it is an entirely useful framework. It is problematic that each variable is weighed proportionally. I think certain variables would have a disproportionate effect; principally, the economic factors. If the state of economy were poor, but the incumbent party scored positively on the other measures, I think the incumbent party would lose. Most of the other variables seem incidental. Now, I think the qualitative researchers in my department would love this model...if they existed, that is.
 
Of course the Karzai government would sabotage any talks with Taliban by the US, especially after the Karzai government was kept in the dark. Taliban have murdered tens of thousands of innocent Afghanis in mosques, markets and political offices. I wouldn't blame Karzai's corruption on this debacle. Obama administration should be blamed for taking a page from Bush's book about foreign policy and doing things unilaterally. This type of cold-war era backdoor bullshit in smoke filled rooms doesn't work anymore especially if everyone and their grandma have an intelligence agency that's the most well-oiled in the entire country. We should have brought Karzai and Taliban together in the room and worked out the details, instead of just dealing with the Taliban by ourselves and maybe asking them to not shoot at us anymore since we're leaving, while the Karzai government is left standing with their dicks in their hand. Completely ridiculous.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Oh hey, what a shocker. Gas prices by the gas station near my apartment went up $.10/gal overnight. Who would've thunk it?
 
Oblivion said:

Outside of his dismissal of the healthcare bill and the ridiculous "I might vote for Chris Christie cuz he's tuff" shit, this is spot on. The second half of Obama's first term has been nothing but a giant disaster. To call him a weak leader is an understatement, because to be perfectly honest he simply is not a leader. He's a negotiator in chief during regular hours and a counselor in chief during tragedies. Which makes him more of a university president than a president of the United States.

I hold no illusions that with a mere speech, Obama can get legislation passed or shame his enemies into civility. But it's shocking that someone who propelled and even saved his candidacy through speeches has been such an ineffective, hesitant speaker as president. He doesn't use the bully pulpit outside of the series of weak "come on guys" appeals after the polls show his latest initiative has been rejected by the American people, thanks to an uncontested, disciplined noise machine on the right.

His presidency has been a series of final straws, with each concession and cave worse than the previous one. There is no excuse for what happened with the debt ceiling, where he gave a nationally televised speech staking out a position before caving immediately afterward. How can anyone respect that type of behavior? You're going to tell me that if Obama completely pulled out of the discussion, Boehner would allow a default? Both him and McConnell said there would be no default, it wasn't possible. Obama was willing to give them a 70-30 deal and call it even, but settled for 98-2 because of what, fear of them nuking the economy? It was not going to happen. There were more democrats and moderate republicans in the house than tea partiers, by a significant margin in fact.

He wanted a bad deal, and got one even worse. And now OFA wants me to go around explaining to people the good things Obama got for them with this deal? Fuck that. Maybe we need four years of Perry, but most likely Romney.
 

Jackson50

Member
Well, for some marginally positive news. According to ADP, private-sector employment increased by 91,000 in august.
RustyNails said:
Of course the Karzai government would sabotage any talks with Taliban by the US, especially after the Karzai government was kept in the dark. Taliban have murdered tens of thousands of innocent Afghanis in mosques, markets and political offices. I wouldn't blame Karzai's corruption on this debacle. Obama administration should be blamed for taking a page from Bush's book about foreign policy and doing things unilaterally. This type of cold-war era backdoor bullshit in smoke filled rooms doesn't work anymore especially if everyone and their grandma have an intelligence agency that's the most well-oiled in the entire country. We should have brought Karzai and Taliban together in the room and worked out the details, instead of just dealing with the Taliban by ourselves and maybe asking them to not shoot at us anymore since we're leaving, while the Karzai government is left standing with their dicks in their hand. Completely ridiculous.
Sabotaging the negotiations was foolish. Seeking inclusion was vastly preferable to sabotaging them. Moreover, I did not attribute Karzai's corruption to this debacle; I think you accidentally reversed the direction of the relationship. That was to highlight the futility of the entire situation. Nevertheless, if I were to assign culpability, I would blame his incompetence.

Notwithstanding, it probably would have been prudent to include Karzai from the inception. Yet I suspect the Taliban wanted to negotiate directly with the U.S. to secure concessions. Of course, I think reconciliation is a pipe dream.
 

Baraka in the White House

2-Terms of Kombat
speculawyer said:
Yeah, I found that quite interesting as well.

You gotta wonder about that deal. Who got that better part of that deal? Maybe the Russians feel they traded useless rights in the polar region for a sure thing down in Texas? Or maybe Exxon got the better end of the deal with real oil field and they have the technology to drill it?

I suspect this. The Russians probably didn't want to bother developing the technology to get at any deposits in the deep artic, a climate where Exxon has experience drilling.
 

HylianTom

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
Outside of his dismissal of the healthcare bill and the ridiculous "I might vote for Chris Christie cuz he's tuff" shit, this is spot on. The second half of Obama's first term has been nothing but a giant disaster. To call him a weak leader is an understatement, because to be perfectly honest he simply is not a leader. He's a negotiator in chief during regular hours and a counselor in chief during tragedies. Which makes him more of a university president than a president of the United States.

I hold no illusions that with a mere speech, Obama can get legislation passed or shame his enemies into civility. But it's shocking that someone who propelled and even saved his candidacy through speeches has been such an ineffective, hesitant speaker as president. He doesn't use the bully pulpit outside of the series of weak "come on guys" appeals after the polls show his latest initiative has been rejected by the American people, thanks to an uncontested, disciplined noise machine on the right.

His presidency has been a series of final straws, with each concession and cave worse than the previous one. There is no excuse for what happened with the debt ceiling, where he gave a nationally televised speech staking out a position before caving immediately afterward. How can anyone respect that type of behavior? You're going to tell me that if Obama completely pulled out of the discussion, Boehner would allow a default? Both him and McConnell said there would be no default, it wasn't possible. Obama was willing to give them a 70-30 deal and call it even, but settled for 98-2 because of what, fear of them nuking the economy? It was not going to happen. There were more democrats and moderate republicans in the house than tea partiers, by a significant margin in fact.

He wanted a bad deal, and got one even worse. And now OFA wants me to go around explaining to people the good things Obama got for them with this deal? Fuck that. Maybe we need four years of Perry, but most likely Romney.

I can't say it any better.

A growing part of me wouldn't mind Perry or Romney winning. There's some really, truly nasty and unavoidable shit coming down the pike for this country over the rest of this decade (and the next), regardless of who's in the White House, and I'd be amused at the idea of a Republican at the helm when our Energy/Economy/Environment chickens come home to roost.

Hell, we've been implementing Republican policy over the last 30 years under both parties.. it would be sweet justice to see them catch the blame for the results.

And this is going to sound hateful, but the American people kinda deserve it. I say "30 years" because the Carter-Reagan election was an inflection point, a "red letter" event, as Doc Brown would say:
Carter asked us to behave like adults and sacrifice and live within our limits, while Reagan promised free cotton candy and missile-equipped ponies for everyone, and the infantile voting public ate that bullshit up. Politicians took note of Carter's fate, and now we're here.

(I take that back.. there is no "kinda" in that statement. We deserve what we're going to get.)

I used to use the phrase "if it weren't for Supreme Court appointees" as a caveat in my voting decision discussions, but I think we are now past the point where voting for a candidate if only to save the Court from a hard right turn is valid. Good appointees or not, there is now enough bad policy baked into the cake - and implemented by both sides - that good justices aren't going to hand-down decisions that: (a) magically reverse decades of immature, short-sighted policy choices; and (b) buy us enough time to get on course.

National politics are now like a sport: fun to watch, but we're on a set of rails now. Community, neighborhood, and family mitigation/organization/efforts are what will determine the fate of localities.
 

Novid

Banned
HylianTom said:
I can't say it any better.

A growing part of me wouldn't mind Perry or Romney winning. There's some really, truly nasty and unavoidable shit coming down the pike for this country over the rest of this decade (and the next), regardless of who's in the White House, and I'd be amused at the idea of a Republican at the helm when our Energy/Economy/Environment chickens come home to roost.

Hell, we've been implementing Republican policy over the last 30 years under both parties.. it would be sweet justice to see them catch the blame for the results.

And this is going to sound hateful, but the American people kinda deserve it. I say "30 years" because the Carter-Reagan election was an inflection point, a "red letter" event, as Doc Brown would say:
Carter asked us to behave like adults and sacrifice and live within our limits, while Reagan promised free cotton candy and missile-equipped ponies for everyone, and the infantile voting public ate that bullshit up. Politicians took note of Carter's fate, and now we're here.

(I take that back.. there is no "kinda" in that statement. We deserve what we're going to get.)

I used to use the phrase "if it weren't for Supreme Court appointees" as a caveat in my voting decision discussions, but I think we are now past the point where voting for a candidate if only to save the Court from a hard right turn is valid. Good appointees or not, there is now enough bad policy baked into the cake - and implemented by both sides - that good justices aren't going to hand-down decisions that: (a) magically reverse decades of immature, short-sighted policy choices; and (b) buy us enough time to get on course.

National politics are now like a sport: fun to watch, but we're on a set of rails now. Community, neighborhood, and family mitigation/organization/efforts are what will determine the fate of localities.

We are gonna end up like Japan socially now but its going to be a MILLION times worse because of religious demagougery. Were going into another Civil War.
 
PhoenixDark said:
Outside of his dismissal of the healthcare bill and the ridiculous "I might vote for Chris Christie cuz he's tuff" shit, this is spot on. The second half of Obama's first term has been nothing but a giant disaster. To call him a weak leader is an understatement, because to be perfectly honest he simply is not a leader. He's a negotiator in chief during regular hours and a counselor in chief during tragedies. Which makes him more of a university president than a president of the United States.

I hold no illusions that with a mere speech, Obama can get legislation passed or shame his enemies into civility. But it's shocking that someone who propelled and even saved his candidacy through speeches has been such an ineffective, hesitant speaker as president. He doesn't use the bully pulpit outside of the series of weak "come on guys" appeals after the polls show his latest initiative has been rejected by the American people, thanks to an uncontested, disciplined noise machine on the right.

His presidency has been a series of final straws, with each concession and cave worse than the previous one. There is no excuse for what happened with the debt ceiling, where he gave a nationally televised speech staking out a position before caving immediately afterward. How can anyone respect that type of behavior? You're going to tell me that if Obama completely pulled out of the discussion, Boehner would allow a default? Both him and McConnell said there would be no default, it wasn't possible. Obama was willing to give them a 70-30 deal and call it even, but settled for 98-2 because of what, fear of them nuking the economy? It was not going to happen. There were more democrats and moderate republicans in the house than tea partiers, by a significant margin in fact.

He wanted a bad deal, and got one even worse. And now OFA wants me to go around explaining to people the good things Obama got for them with this deal? Fuck that. Maybe we need four years of Perry, but most likely Romney.

And despite all that McCain would've been 10x worse.
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
HylianTom said:
I can't say it any better.

A growing part of me wouldn't mind Perry or Romney winning. There's some really, truly nasty and unavoidable shit coming down the pike for this country over the rest of this decade (and the next), regardless of who's in the White House, and I'd be amused at the idea of a Republican at the helm when our Energy/Economy/Environment chickens come home to roost.

Hell, we've been implementing Republican policy over the last 30 years under both parties.. it would be sweet justice to see them catch the blame for the results.

And this is going to sound hateful, but the American people kinda deserve it. I say "30 years" because the Carter-Reagan election was an inflection point, a "red letter" event, as Doc Brown would say:
Carter asked us to behave like adults and sacrifice and live within our limits, while Reagan promised free cotton candy and missile-equipped ponies for everyone, and the infantile voting public ate that bullshit up. Politicians took note of Carter's fate, and now we're here.

(I take that back.. there is no "kinda" in that statement. We deserve what we're going to get.)

I used to use the phrase "if it weren't for Supreme Court appointees" as a caveat in my voting decision discussions, but I think we are now past the point where voting for a candidate if only to save the Court from a hard right turn is valid. Good appointees or not, there is now enough bad policy baked into the cake - and implemented by both sides - that good justices aren't going to hand-down decisions that: (a) magically reverse decades of immature, short-sighted policy choices; and (b) buy us enough time to get on course.

National politics are now like a sport: fun to watch, but we're on a set of rails now. Community, neighborhood, and family mitigation/organization/efforts are what will determine the fate of localities.
I'm beginning to feel the same way. I find it hard to stomach the idea of rewarding Obama for his shittacular lack of leadership and constant caving to the Right. I don't want the Right much less the tea party in charge of the country any more than the next sane person, but I sometimes wonder how much it'll really matter in the long run. The kind of democratic leadership we have is completely ineffectual for dealing with, as you said, the major chickens that'll be coming home to roost in the coming years/decades. We may get some progress here and there with more "progressive" Presidents in office, but this country's on a downard slope regardless of which party is in power, as I see it. Maybe the Democrats will grow a bit of a spine if they see Obama punished for his behavior and we'll ultimately be better off for it. Maybe not... But punishing Obama means rewarding the Tea Party, and that sickens me more than anything.
 

Jackson50

Member
RustyNails said:
Nah. If I were Karzai I'd have done the same. As much as I loathe and detest Karzai government, they were within their moral authority to do it. I wouldn't sit idly by while the US is secretly baking cakes with my enemy, even if it was indirectly doing me a favor. Diplomacy 101.
Nah. Irrespective of their moral authority, which I never broached, it was foolish. Since they are already seeking reconciliation, they should have sought inclusion in the negotiations. It behooved them to foster rather than damage these negotiations. Rather, their actions wasted an apparently credible interlocutor, eroded trust between the various parties, and ruined the already improbable negotiations involving the U.S. and the Taliban. And negotiations require nuance and delicacy. Diplomacy 625.
 
Smoking Gun: US Ex-Diplomat David Welch and Dennis Kucinich tried to undermine US' NATO effort. Kucinich not only tried to undermine US' NATO effort, but actively tried to gather information in order to defend Seif Al Islam in ICC, and build a case against US in ICC. Yes, you are allowed to re-read that last line.
Secret Libyan documents reveal how Americans were trying to help Gaddafi beat the revolution: an Al Jazeera exclusive.

The US has played a key role in the battle to end Muammar Gaddafi's rule over Libya, but Al Jazeera uncovers evidence that influential Americans have been trying to help Gaddafi cling to power.

One is a member of congress - the other is a former ambassador.

The documents were found in the offices of Libyan intelligence. The building was abandoned as Libyan fighters took over Tripoli.


Al Jazeera's Jamal El Shi-yal has this exclusive report.
Unforgivable. This guy's one district is the one that I wouldn't get worked up about getting gerrymandered.
 
I am convinced that these insane republicans absolutely don't care if this country collapses or if they get financially screwed by the corporate class, just as long as gays are marginalized, immigrants are treated unfairly and taught "their place," and creationism is being taught in schools--they will be happy.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
Another solar company bites the dust


In a press release on Wednesday, Solyndra said it could not compete with bigger overseas rivals. Earlier this year, cuts to generous solar subsidies in No. 2 market Italy stalled development of solar projects and led to a global glut of solar panels that sparked a 25 percent drop in prices.

Even industry heavyweights such as China's Suntech Power Holdings Co Ltd and U.S.-based First Solar Inc are struggling with dwindling profits, while small, up-and-coming solar companies are finding it increasingly difficult to stay afloat.

Solyndra said it was evaluating options, including a sale of the business and licensing its copper indium gallium selenide (CIGS) technology.

About 1,100 employees are being laid off immediately, it said in a statement.

I think that makes 4 in the past 18 months. 2 of which received stimulus funds.
 
Jackson50 said:
Nah. Irrespective of their moral authority, which I never broached, it was foolish. Since they are already seeking reconciliation, they should have sought inclusion in the negotiations. It behooved them to foster rather than damage these negotiations. Rather, their actions wasted an apparently credible interlocutor, eroded trust between the various parties, and ruined the already improbable negotiations involving the U.S. and the Taliban. And negotiations require nuance and delicacy. Diplomacy 625.
Not informing Karzai government was foolish and reminds me of cowboy politics, not nuance and delicacy. How do you promote reconciliation when you're not even in the picture? The mind boggles. US is not a credible interlocuter. We never gave a rat's ass about Afghanistan, and won't care if they return to shit again. The US' sole interest in opening up a channel with Taliban was to assure them that they were leaving the country. Karzai was left out because he wants US to stay. We need multilateralism in post-cold war diplomacy. Such negotiations that are solely interest-oriented will always fall flat especially when you're ruling out the entire government from a picture.
 

KtSlime

Member
BotoxAgent said:
I am convinced that these insane republicans absolutely don't care if this country collapses or if they get financially screwed by the corporate class, just as long as gays are marginalized, immigrants are treated unfairly and taught "their place," and creationism is being taught in schools--they will be happy.

Why should they care? They have long learned that the only real power in this world is resource control. As long as they hold that power, and everyone is kept scared to death about socialism/communism/other systems that want to redistribute the resources, governments can freely come and go.

These social problems are no more than a tool used by the corporate class for controlling the lesser classes votes. They are a talking point to be contrary so that a specific faction holds the power, and once they lose weight in swaying the lesser classes, they will be ignored. As long as one of the two factions is in constant competition, everything is okay in the eyes of the corporate class because it will keep them in power.

I don't believe that all of the people championing DOMA, anti-abortion, ID in schools actually care - or believe what they are selling. But they certainly see the utility of their words. Not only can they get the uneducated and bigots to vote for them - these people hold the same right to determine political direction as anyone else - so it's worth the effort to get them since they are easy to convince, but they can also further propagate the existence of these uneducated, the people that have no means to recognize what is really happening.
 

HylianTom

Banned
ToxicAdam said:
Another solar company bites the dust

I think that makes 4 in the past 18 months. 2 of which received stimulus funds.

Scary to think about what will happen to the solar companies when the big energy tax credit expires in 2016.

We're building a house next year, and a PV system is a key part of the design. I don't know if it would be possible if it weren't for the stackable 30% federal and 50% state PV system tax credits. A $50,000 system suddenly becomes affordable.

Get 'em while you can, folks.
http://www.dsireusa.org/incentives/incentive.cfm?Incentive_Code=US37F
 

Jackson50

Member
RustyNails said:
Not informing Karzai government was foolish and reminds me of cowboy politics, not nuance and delicacy. How do you promote reconciliation when you're not even in the picture? The mind boggles. US is not a credible interlocuter. We never gave a rat's ass about Afghanistan, and won't care if they return to shit again. The US' sole interest in opening up a channel with Taliban was to assure them that they were leaving the country. Karzai was left out because he wants US to stay. We need multilateralism in post-cold war diplomacy. Such negotiations that are solely interest-oriented will always fall flat especially when you're ruling out the entire government from a picture.
If the U.S. acted foolishly, it does not render Karzai's response less foolish. Regardless, I noted it was likely a mistake not to include Karzai. If, as I speculated, the Taliban wanted to exclude Karzai, I think it was a necessary concession. Otherwise, I concur; Karzai's inclusion is essential to reconciliation. Moreover, that is why Karzai's response was terribly daft.

I did not claim the U.S. was a credible interlocutor. I was referring to the interlocutor between the U.S. and the Taliban. I think the U.S.'s intention was to facilitate reconciliation. Incorporating the Taliban into the constitutional framework is essential to secure a modicum of stability. And the policymakers do not wish to withdraw from an unstable Afghanistan.
 
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