Skiptastic
Member
They ought to go back to calling it the Department of War and call Homeland Security the Department of Defense. Though changing that letterhead would probably cost a lot...jamesinclair said:
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PoliGAF 2011: Of Weiners, Boehners, Santorum, and Teabags
- Thread starter PantherLotus
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jamesinclair
Banned
Skiptastic said:
I hate the republican name games.
National airprot should always be National Airport. None of that Reagan crap.
The department of war provides absolutely no defense, and thus should continue to be called the department of war.
Homeland security should be called the Civil Rights Infringement Bureau.
This debt ceiling shit is stupid, pure politics. The entire debate is about posturing and image. Obama is going to make the cuts republicans want and republicans will raise the debt ceiling. All of this is about who're going to come out looking good. It's frustrating.
Skiptastic
Member
Blame Truman. He created the Department of Defense and dissolved the Department of War.jamesinclair said:
aronnov reborn
Banned
otake said:
most of politics is about looking good... we the people are mere pawns in their game.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
So apparently social security is on the table now? Gotta love Obama and the Dems.
jamesinclair
Banned
Skiptastic said:
"If we see that Germany is winning we ought to help Russia and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, and that way let them kill as many as possible"
"When the railway workers turned down a proposed settlement, Truman seized control of the railways and threatened to draft striking workers into the armed forces"
"He failed to prevent tax cuts or the removal of price controls "
"Truman made the decision to recognize the establishment of the State of Israel "
"Truman pardoned a Louisiana political figure, George A. Caldwell, a building contractor from Baton Rouge who had been imprisoned in the United States Penitentiary, Atlanta for income tax evasion and accepting kickbacks"
Sounds like an Obama republican to me.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Hoyer: No Help For Boehner On Raising Debt Limit If Taxes Off The Table
Brian Beutler | July 6, 2011, 12:06PM
The Democrats' vote-counter in the House of Representatives says the GOP will need his help to raise the national debt limit -- but they won't get it if they don't put everything on the table, including tax revenues.
"Speaker Boehner needed Democratic votes to pass keeping government running, even at minimal levels," Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-MD) told reporters at his weekly Capitol briefing, in response to a question from TPM. "So my presumption is [Senator] Schumer is right."
Schumer was the first Democratic leader to argue that the GOP can't raise the debt limit without agreeing to new tax revenues -- something they've thus far refused. Hoyer says he won't pitch in Democratic votes unless Republicans relent.
"I've told Mr. Boehner that I will help," Hoyer said. "Now I'm not going to help on some draconian do it my way or the highway vote, but we Democrats are prepared to co-operate in order to assure that the creditworthiness of the United States is not put at risk and to move towards a fiscally responsible path...everything needs to be on the table, and when I say everything I mean everything.... Revenues need to be a significant part of it."
Boehner has insisted in repeated statements that significant revenue increases can't pass the House. If Hoyer's right, then neither can a debt limit deal that does not include higher taxes of some kind. Another reporter asked Hoyer if Congress can figure a way out of conundrum.
"Not if David Brooks' premise, that the Republicans are unprepared to take yes for an answer, are unprepared to make any compromises and simply say 'my way or the highway,'" he said. "Then I think it will be very difficult to do."
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Hellz yeah!! This is what I want to hear more DEMs saying. I think the push from the left is helping finally.
Brian Beutler | July 6, 2011, 12:06PM
The Democrats' vote-counter in the House of Representatives says the GOP will need his help to raise the national debt limit -- but they won't get it if they don't put everything on the table, including tax revenues.
"Speaker Boehner needed Democratic votes to pass keeping government running, even at minimal levels," Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-MD) told reporters at his weekly Capitol briefing, in response to a question from TPM. "So my presumption is [Senator] Schumer is right."
Schumer was the first Democratic leader to argue that the GOP can't raise the debt limit without agreeing to new tax revenues -- something they've thus far refused. Hoyer says he won't pitch in Democratic votes unless Republicans relent.
"I've told Mr. Boehner that I will help," Hoyer said. "Now I'm not going to help on some draconian do it my way or the highway vote, but we Democrats are prepared to co-operate in order to assure that the creditworthiness of the United States is not put at risk and to move towards a fiscally responsible path...everything needs to be on the table, and when I say everything I mean everything.... Revenues need to be a significant part of it."
Boehner has insisted in repeated statements that significant revenue increases can't pass the House. If Hoyer's right, then neither can a debt limit deal that does not include higher taxes of some kind. Another reporter asked Hoyer if Congress can figure a way out of conundrum.
"Not if David Brooks' premise, that the Republicans are unprepared to take yes for an answer, are unprepared to make any compromises and simply say 'my way or the highway,'" he said. "Then I think it will be very difficult to do."
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Hellz yeah!! This is what I want to hear more DEMs saying. I think the push from the left is helping finally.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Yay, let's all celebrate for mediocre brinksmanship
Invisible_Insane
Member
It's like trying to play chicken with one's hands on the surface of an induction stove.PantherLotus said:
I am in the mood for bad analogies, folks.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
PantherLotus said:
So you'd rather for him not to say or believe these things?
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
mckmas8808 said:
No, I just think it's time to stop hyperventilating when Democrats show some minimum amount of backbone.
To iterate my previous posts on Afghanistan, the problem is political. The Afghan government is corrupt and impotent. Moreover, it is an intractable problem beyond the scope of our diplomats and military. It can only be ameliorated by the Afghan government. Well...
He should be worried as it is over seven months until the primary. His lead is hardly secure. But Bachmann is not the threat. She is merely the candidate du jour. The establishment will quash her candidacy.Averon said:
Aaron Strife
Banned
Kent Conrad is proposing a plan that would save 4 trillion dollars through 50% cuts and 50% tax increases/repeal of tax breaks/etc.
ed: well actually i guess it could pass in the Senate through reconciliation (what a wonderful tool), but good luck getting it through the House
it won't pass
ed: well actually i guess it could pass in the Senate through reconciliation (what a wonderful tool), but good luck getting it through the House
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Here's the problem, and I think I'm stealing this from Chris Hayes: both sides think they'll benefit politically from a collapse. It's like the opposite of the Mutually Assured Destruction theory, where instead of both entities being destroyed leading to de-facto cooperation, both parties believe the other will be destroyed leading to further and futher runs down the rabbit hole.
I'm terrified, as ambivalent as I am.
This whole thing was fucking bought and sold long ago, and we're staring down the gaping mouth of the starved beast. Except the beast isn't helping poor people and reaching for equality, the beast are the natural forces of what happens when the richest people on the planet don't throw a few loaves to the mob.
I'm tired of the back and forth and the endless, eye-rolling rhetoric from both sides, both of which are paid by giant, soul-less corporations, enivorment-fucking donors, and self-serving miscreants to do their collective bidding.
This thing goes down in flames, or we tape it up and have another go at it in 5, 10, 15 years. It's all the same to me.
I'm terrified, as ambivalent as I am.
This whole thing was fucking bought and sold long ago, and we're staring down the gaping mouth of the starved beast. Except the beast isn't helping poor people and reaching for equality, the beast are the natural forces of what happens when the richest people on the planet don't throw a few loaves to the mob.
I'm tired of the back and forth and the endless, eye-rolling rhetoric from both sides, both of which are paid by giant, soul-less corporations, enivorment-fucking donors, and self-serving miscreants to do their collective bidding.
This thing goes down in flames, or we tape it up and have another go at it in 5, 10, 15 years. It's all the same to me.
I don't think the goal is to pass it. The goal is to provide some push toward a middle ground, from the hard right the negotiations are taking place in. Any bill needs to pass the Senate, and Dems do have some leverage there. I think they'll crumple like so many paper flowers in the end, against what ever deal Obama and Boehner put together, but it's the right direction to push in right now.Aaron Strife said:
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Where I'm at pyschologically in this political process reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from The Matrix, where the ever-wise Morpheus looks to the ever-blank Neo and says, "I see it in your eyes. You have the look of a man who accepts what he sees because he is expecting to wake up."
Except in this fuck-tarded illusion, waking up doesn't reveal that we're in the future and can have bad-ass trance parties with gasoline alcohol and play chessboxin' on the holodeck. Oh fuck no -- Our reality is that we're just dumb animals given just enough brains to destroy ourselves, just enough self-realization to be afraid of it, and just enough emotional fortitude to cry when it happens. But none of the collective foresight or foreskin to prevent it.
We're fucked. Why didn't I take the BLUE pill?
Except in this fuck-tarded illusion, waking up doesn't reveal that we're in the future and can have bad-ass trance parties with gasoline alcohol and play chessboxin' on the holodeck. Oh fuck no -- Our reality is that we're just dumb animals given just enough brains to destroy ourselves, just enough self-realization to be afraid of it, and just enough emotional fortitude to cry when it happens. But none of the collective foresight or foreskin to prevent it.
We're fucked. Why didn't I take the BLUE pill?
Invisible_Insane
Member
"think they will" was the critical point, I believe. It doesn't have to be true that they will, but if both sides believe that they'll be at the advantage in case of a default, then that's going to inform their decision making in unfortunate ways.Clevinger said:
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Clevinger said:
Yes they do. Democrats believe that decades of "government is the problem" Reaganisms will stick to the idiots actually repeating it when it goes down, and Republicans believe their own myths that the public will never blame the party out of power, that Obama is Hoover (or Carter or w/e meme you're repeating at this very moment).
The real cynic notes that in either case, it doesn't matter. When the shit hits the wall it will be like every other time the shit hits the wall. The wealthiest survive.* Oh sure, a couple will bite the bullet. Maybe one or two goes down with the ship. Who cares? Their children will still be the wealthiest people in the history of the world. And those that do actually burn are still friends with the other wealthiest people in the history of the world.
*And surely you know that the wealthiest are the ones in charge, right?
speculawyer
Member
Go Crazy-lady!Jackson50 said:
The establishment could be forced to have to deal with her. They dealt with Palin, the can handle Bachmann. Of course she'll lost badly but that is what happens when your base is filled with superstitious and paranoid nuts.
Invisible_Insane said:
Neither side, for all of their faults, is dumb enough to think that.
Now, they may think that they'll gain politically by going as close to the edge as possible, but that's something completely different.
PantherLotus said:
You have no idea what you're talking about. Why the fuck would they want to chance their wealth on something that may or may not help them politically? Even if they're the most cynical and abhorrent motherfuckers ever, they're still not going to let the country default because their wealth would be one of the things hurt.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Clevinger said:
You're definitely wrong. The both believe they'll win if everyone else loses.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Clevinger said:
I don't think you get it.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Clevinger said:
I didn't say I think they think they'd be fine, I said that each side thinks it would be a political win and the other would lose. Further, I contest your assertion that they're smart enough. And I've already outlined an easy-to-understand reasoning for why they might believe their wealth would survive as well.
I won't say your reasoning is idiotic, but I will say that you're not actively engaging in actually trying.
I was watching Cenk Uygur on his MSNBC show and he had on Bill Press who said that if the debt ceiling is not raised, Obama could just take whatever revenues the government has and spend it on his priorities and cut every Republican project.
Let's ignore the fact that Obama would ever have the balls to even think about doing such a thing, but I am curious, does the president have that kind of power?
Let's ignore the fact that Obama would ever have the balls to even think about doing such a thing, but I am curious, does the president have that kind of power?
Wow, the senate's gonna hold a vote tomorrow, not for any specific proposal, but just the QUESTION of whether the rich should share the sacrifice:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...s-on-the-rich/2011/03/03/gIQAvN3i0H_blog.html
Where the fuck have THESE Dems been all this time?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...s-on-the-rich/2011/03/03/gIQAvN3i0H_blog.html
Where the fuck have THESE Dems been all this time?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Aaron Strife said:
Sounds so great even with no details.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Oblivion said:
They are here now, so embrace it.
jamesinclair
Banned
I just read this article and I thought it was hilarious.
For just one second, I thought a republican was being logical.
And then I read the next line.
http://news.yahoo.com/white-house-says-sees-support-ending-tax-breaks-144554272.html
Sigh.
For just one second, I thought a republican was being logical.
And then I read the next line.
http://news.yahoo.com/white-house-says-sees-support-ending-tax-breaks-144554272.html
Sigh.
RustyNails
Member
Might want to kill his re-election goodbye before that though. The noise machine will be deafening.gcubed said:
Not if PD/Diablos have anything to say about it.thekad said:
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
jamesinclair said:
Gotdamn it! Why can't the GOP be a little bit more responsible?
jamesinclair
Banned
Oblivion said:
Id love to be in that position.
"Sorry folks, we have no money for the Pentagon. Everyone there is fired, and the building is on sale. Maybe it will make nice condos? We need the revenue. In other news, I just found $200 billion for rail and mass transit. By the way, GOP, hows that no-tax line holding? Lols."
jamesinclair said:
"Since the Republicans hate 'pork', 'earmarks', and pretty much the entire concept of 'spending', they won't be too heartbroken that we reallocate all that money to districts that DO want it!'
Obviously it won't happen, but I'd love to see Obama say it and have the fuckhead Republicans turn around and implicitly acknowledge that they NEED that evil gubment spending.
jamesinclair
Banned
Oblivion said:
"Dear Arizona, I hear you dont like government or government employees, so we are pulling out all national guard, border control, customs agents, FBI, ATF, FAA flight controllers etc etc. Perhaps you can make the Phoenix airport a nice go-kart racing area?
Oh, and make sure you wash your vegetables, we wont be inspecting those anymore.
Also, we'll be keeping all the highway monies and giving them to states that like infrastructure spending
And finally, any company doing business in your state will no longer be susbidized with federal taxbreaks."
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/58419.html
Bill Clinton likens GOP effort to Jim Crow laws
Former President Bill Clinton Wednesday compared GOP efforts to limit same-day voter registration and block some convicted felons from voting to Jim Crow laws and poll taxes.
I cant help thinking since we just celebrated the Fourth of July and were supposed to be a country dedicated to liberty that one of the most pervasive political movements going on outside Washington today is the disciplined, passionate, determined effort of Republican governors and legislators to keep most of you from voting next time, Clinton said at Campus Progresss annual conference in Washington.
There has never been in my lifetime, since we got rid of the poll tax and all the Jim Crow burdens on voting, the determined effort to limit the franchise that we see today, Clinton added.
Bill Clinton likens GOP effort to Jim Crow laws
Former President Bill Clinton Wednesday compared GOP efforts to limit same-day voter registration and block some convicted felons from voting to Jim Crow laws and poll taxes.
I cant help thinking since we just celebrated the Fourth of July and were supposed to be a country dedicated to liberty that one of the most pervasive political movements going on outside Washington today is the disciplined, passionate, determined effort of Republican governors and legislators to keep most of you from voting next time, Clinton said at Campus Progresss annual conference in Washington.
There has never been in my lifetime, since we got rid of the poll tax and all the Jim Crow burdens on voting, the determined effort to limit the franchise that we see today, Clinton added.
TacticalFox88
Banned
Is it just me or do Dems grow balls at the ODDEST of times?Oblivion said:
U.S. Afghanistan drawdown begins slowly, 800 Marines out in fall
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/06/us-usa-afghanistan-drawdown-idUSTRE76570Q20110706
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