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[Snake]

PoliGaf 2011: Of Weiners, Hotdogs, Coupons, and Diabetes

 

[Manmademan]

Hear that, guys, you have committed the logical fallacy of LIVING SOMEWHERE OTHER THAN KOSMO.

Christ on a cracker.

I usually end up on the opposite side of the fence but Kosmo's general point is correct here.

Outside of perhaps the most expensive market in the country (where the example was drawn from, I think) it's going to be cheaper to buy in bulk at the grocery store and cook for a family of four, rather than go to mcdonalds or someplace similar- especially if your state is like PA which will not tax groceries, but will tax fast food.

 

[gcubed]

My husband and I prepare every meal and we make stuff in bulk in the evening and then eat it for a few days for lunch and dinner. Last night was turkey meat cooked like tacos with vegetables mixed in (without the taco shells and wraps or whatever) Breakfast is the only thing prepared daily, eggs and some kind of meat or cheese.

It costs us around $600 a month to feed both of us in Florida according to Mint, sometimes more, sometimes less, depending on when we restock. $20 a day for two people that prepare everything the cheapest way possible by making bulk meals.

I can't fathom adding in two children while halving the budget yet maintaining the same quality of food that's healthy to eat. Are you kidding me?

I live in Philadelphia and my wife and I are pretty similar (she doesnt eat much for breakfast, but i have either oatmeal or eggs) and we go through about 500 a month in food costs (includes eating out though). Buying meat adds up quick, we buy in bulk as much as we can. Actually buying half a cow this year which saves a shitload of money, just need a chest freezer.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Your budget for food also depends on how much you eat period. If you eat just enough to sustain yourself, you're not going to be spending as much as say the guy who's family has a high metabolism and constantly needs food.

 

[Kosmo]

This thread makes me think I should start paying attention to our grocery bill. Since we slaughter two pigs and a cow every year though our grocery bill is probably fairly low relative to people who have to buy meat.

I've actually thought about looking into buying 1/2 a cow, processed. How long will it keep?

I usually end up on the opposite side of the fence but Kosmo's general point is correct here.

Outside of perhaps the most expensive market in the country (where the example was drawn from, I think) it's going to be cheaper to buy in bulk at the grocery store and cook for a family of four, rather than go to mcdonalds or someplace similar- especially if your state is like PA which will not tax groceries, but will tax fast food.

Yeah, no food tax in my state either.

 

[besada]

This thread makes me think I should start paying attention to our grocery bill. Since we slaughter two pigs and a cow every year though our grocery bill is probably fairly low relative to people who have to buy meat.

I assume you mean you have someone slaughter them for you? I never pictured you tending cattle.

 

[Jackson50]

As expected al-Zawahri succeeded bin-Laden as commander of al-Qa'ida. Of course, as I have iterated, focusing on the head of al-Qa'ida distracts from the graver threat the organization, and I use that term loosely, presents. And rather than the delay resulting from divisions within al-Qa'ida, I think it resulted primarily from the necessity of changing positions which hampered communications; essentially, they were distracted.

Bin Laden’s No. 2, Zawahri, Takes Control of Al Qaeda
By DAVID JOLLY and J. DAVID GOODMAN
Published: June 16, 2011

More than six weeks after American commandos found and killed Osama bin Laden in a Pakistan hideout, his second-in-command in Al Qaeda is officially replacing him, according to a statement it posted online Thursday.

Ayman al-Zawahri, an Egyptian who long served as No. 2 to Bin Laden, had been expected to inherit leadership of Al Qaeda, though the delay in announcing his succession led some counterterrorism analysts to see signs of a power struggle at the top following Bin Laden’s death in Abbottabad, Pakistan, on May 2.

“The general command of Al Qaeda, after the completion of consultation, announces that Sheikh Ayman al-Zawahri has assumed the responsibility of the leadership of the group,” Al Qaeda said in a statement presented by the Al Fajr Media Center, the group’s online voice, and posted on jihadist Internet forums.​

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/17/world/asia/17qaeda.html?_r=2&hp

On that, what are the potential ramifications on Obama? I am sure that it will play out where we draw down our troops and all is forgotten, but is there really any consequences if a president denies the War Powers Resolution?

Well, they could move to impeach Obama. I suppose they could censure him; the House almost censured president Polk over the Mexican-American War. Otherwise, nothing. Congress's only recourse would be to cease appropriations. The WPR is constructed with such ambiguity that it impedes efforts to restrain executive authority; the president can circumvent Congressional oversight. And the courts have been reluctant to interpret the act and provide clarity.

Al of these posts regarding groceries have made me hungry.

 

[DasRaven]

Romney: "I'm also unemployed."

Technically true, but you gotta be f'n kidding!

 

[reilo]

I usually end up on the opposite side of the fence but Kosmo's general point is correct here.

Outside of perhaps the most expensive market in the country (where the example was drawn from, I think) it's going to be cheaper to buy in bulk at the grocery store and cook for a family of four, rather than go to mcdonalds or someplace similar- especially if your state is like PA which will not tax groceries, but will tax fast food.

That we can agree upon -- hell, I cook nearly all of my dinners. But $11/day for a family of four? That's highly disputable.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Romney: I'm also unemployed.

Technically true, but you gotta be f'n kidding!

If my eyes rolled any harder they'd fall out of my socket. What the fuck?

 

[Manmademan]

I live in Philadelphia and my wife and I are pretty similar (she doesnt eat much for breakfast, but i have either oatmeal or eggs) and we go through about 500 a month in food costs (includes eating out though). Buying meat adds up quick, we buy in bulk as much as we can. Actually buying half a cow this year which saves a shitload of money, just need a chest freezer.

do you know anyone in the middle of the state who hunts? those people are drowning in venison. I don't eat deer but they're always trying to find an excuse to unload some of the massive amounts of excess deer meat on me whenever I'm out there.

PA deer meat could feed every hungry person in Philly and Pittsburgh with room to spare, and the hunters would just give it away for an excuse to shoot more deer.

That we can agree upon -- hell, I cook nearly all of my dinners. But $11/day for a family of four? That's highly disputable.

eh, it's possible but if your kids are picky eaters who refuse to eat nothing but name brand stuff it might be tough.

I went through periods where I would and could live on $20 a week or less. Not kidding. It involved a lot of off brand pasta at a dollar a box. butter that up with lemon and pepper seasoning and there's dinner at about $.60 per serving.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

If my eyes rolled any harder they'd fall out of my socket. What the fuck?

He made a joke about trying to find employment, but he had a good feeling about a certain position. *wink* *wink*

His audience got the joke and it's a complete non-news item.

 

[RustyNails]

We have lots of fat people in America eating these meals because they are lazy, not because they are less expensive food options. I have 3 kids and we probably go shopping every 2½ weeks or so and spend around $450 a month - we could spend less.

Do you think you can sustain yourself and your family at $11-$15/day? A step further: Would you be okay if your kids eat unhealthy crap?

According to USDA's guidelines for the absolute lowest cost of healthy food for a family of 4 with kinds under 10 years of age, it will cost about $530/month. Of course, this is assuming that no one eats outside the home. If you factor in that variable, it should be $530 + or - $100. Regardless, well above $11/day.

http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/Publications/FoodPlans/2011/CostofFoodApr2011.pdf

 

[eznark]

I assume you mean you have someone slaughter them for you? I never pictured you tending cattle.

We slaughter the pigs ourselves, this year might have to beef processed though. Up until this year my father in law raised cattle as a hobby, since he quit we'll get the animals from the 4H fair.

 

[gcubed]

do you know anyone in the middle of the state who hunts? those people are drowning in venison. I don't eat deer but they're always trying to find an excuse to unload some of the massive amounts of excess deer meat on me whenever I'm out there.

well i do get some from my family (i grew up in pennsyltucky and moved to the big city for college and never left). As i mentioned, and i see kosmo mentioned as well, i'll be going in with another family and get 1/2 a cow. Its soooooooo much cheaper and Kosmo, if you get everything cut up how you want it and individually wrapped it will last you for quite a while (over 6 months)

We slaughter the pigs ourselves, this year might have to beef processed though. Up until this year my father in law raised cattle as a hobby, since he quit we'll get the animals from the 4H fair.

how i pictured you is completely changing now.

 

[besada]

We slaughter the pigs ourselves, this year might have to beef processed though. Up until this year my father in law raised cattle as a hobby, since he quit we'll get the animals from the 4H fair.

I have a new found respect for you, sir.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

I usually end up on the opposite side of the fence but Kosmo's general point is correct here.

Outside of perhaps the most expensive market in the country (where the example was drawn from, I think) it's going to be cheaper to buy in bulk at the grocery store and cook for a family of four, rather than go to mcdonalds or someplace similar- especially if your state is like PA which will not tax groceries, but will tax fast food.

That's not so much what I took exception with. For one thing, his use of the word 'fallacy' was pretty egregiously wrong. But I also find it pretty objectionable for him to assert blindly that the reason that poor people don't cook is because they're lazy, as opposed to considering any of the more reasonable alternative explantions: they don't have the relevant skills, they don't have the time, their access to the relevant raw materials (try finding fresh food in a bodega sometime) is limited, the start-up costs (pans, spices [yes, you need spices]) are high, etc. It's pretty tiresome to hear Kosmo cleaving so desperately to the trope about the laziness of the poor.

 

[eznark]

well i do get some from my family (i grew up in pennsyltucky and moved to the big city for college and never left). As i mentioned, and i see kosmo mentioned as well, i'll be going in with another family and get 1/2 a cow. Its soooooooo much cheaper and Kosmo, if you get everything cut up how you want it and individually wrapped it will last you for quite a while (over 6 months)

We have a couple of chest freezers. It keeps fine for a year, after that we chuck it but I think roasts would probably be fine beyond that as well.

I have a new found respect for you, sir.

you should see me deliver a calf! Chains and a 4 wheeler may have been involved.

 

[LosDaddie]

Food is cheap here in Orlando, but $350/mo for groceries for a family of 3 is still low. I have a family of 3 as well, and we spend at least $300/month at Costco alone. That's not including the runs to the local grocery store & such.

I'd say $500/mo is more realistic. My wife cooks most of the time, we pack our lunches and we only eat out (pizza/subs/fastfood) maybe a couple times a week. I'm sure we cut get those costs down a bit if we were more aggressive on coupons (we do use them though), and just plain don't eat out ever.

It's totally possible to feed a family of 4 on 11 dollars a day.

Pricerite (North-east cheap food store, and where I shop)
Not Frozen Chicken Patties (10) : 4.99
White Buns: .89
2 lbs Frozen French Fries (which is like 4 meals): 2.99

And still have money left to get a 2 liter of off-brand soda and some cheese.

Any poor kids eat lunch at school for no cost, and just skip breakfast.

So, only one meal a day...and only on school days?

And no, I prefer to feed my daughter the most important meal of the day before school.

 

[RustyNails]

eznark is a part time pig farmer? learn something everyday

So, only one meal a day...and only on school days?

And no, I prefer to feed my daughter the most important meal of the day before school.

Pretty sure balladofwindfishes was being sarcastic as hell

 

[Manmademan]

That's not so much what I took exception with. For one thing, his use of the word 'fallacy' was pretty egregiously wrong. But I also find it pretty objectionable for him to assert blindly that the reason that poor people don't cook is because they're lazy, as opposed to considering any of the more reasonable alternative explantions: they don't have the relevant skills, they don't have the time, their access to the relevant raw materials (try finding fresh food in a bodega sometime) is limited, the start-up costs (pans, spices [yes, you need spices]) are high, etc. It's pretty tiresome to hear Kosmo cleaving so desperately to the trope about the laziness of the poor.

having been broke and without a car at one point, its HARD to go grocery shopping when you're in the city with no car. I think that's probably the biggest factor.

Grocery stores are extremely scarce within urban environments, and carrying bags of groceries on the bus doesn't exactly work well. the rare times I've seen it/done it it's a huge hassle, and would be impossible if *everyone* was doing it.

thus poor urban folk tend to shop at bodegas, gas stations, fast food joints etc that are convenient. So I don't think its an issue of laziness, but the logistics of grocery shopping when you have no money can be tough to manage.

how i pictured you is completely changing now.

we'll have to change his tag to "killapig smith" now

 

[LosDaddie]

We slaughter the pigs ourselves, this year might have to beef processed though. Up until this year my father in law raised cattle as a hobby, since he quit we'll get the animals from the 4H fair.

Like a boss.

well i do get some from my family (i grew up in pennsyltucky and moved to the big city for college and never left). As i mentioned, and i see kosmo mentioned as well, i'll be going in with another family and get 1/2 a cow. Its soooooooo much cheaper and Kosmo, if you get everything cut up how you want it and individually wrapped it will last you for quite a while (over 6 months).

I need to look into buying a half cow. We love steak. But I don't know where the freezer would go.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Is Walmart not cheaper than the grocery stores you guys visit? Here in SC, it's pretty much the best place for food at relatively low costs.

 

[besada]

you should see me deliver a calf! Chains and a 4 wheeler may have been involved.

We just used a horse and some rope. You fancy northerners.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

do you know anyone in the middle of the state who hunts? those people are drowning in venison. I don't eat deer but they're always trying to find an excuse to unload some of the massive amounts of excess deer meat on me whenever I'm out there.

PA deer meat could feed every hungry person in Philly and Pittsburgh with room to spare, and the hunters would just give it away for an excuse to shoot more deer.

They actually have a program like that
http://sharedeer.org/
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/12/06/us-food-hunters-idUSTRE6B53E420101206

 

[Manmademan]

Is Walmart not cheaper than the grocery stores you guys visit? Here in SC, it's pretty much the best place for food at relatively low costs.

Nope.

Aldi is by far the cheapest I've seen in the philly area, but everything they carry tends to be off brand, the stores are small, etc.

Walmart isn't really any cheaper than the major chains where I am- not that I find myself in there if I can help it, Walmart is the pits.

They actually have a program like that
http://sharedeer.org/
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/...6B53E420101206

didn't know about the program, but that does not surprise me at ALL.

 

[eznark]

eznark is a part time pig farmer? learn something everyday

Don't get the wrong impression, I don't do any real farming or raising of animals. My wife's family does the hard work, I just pitch in when necessary on weekends. Basically I hold the animal or haul the hay. They give carpetbagging Yankees like me the bitch work.

 

[Plinko]

Pawlenty's tax plan, by design and effect, would dramatically erode the government's revenue base. As noted here, his plan would reduce the top individual income tax rate from 35 percent to 25 percent, cut the top corporate rate from 25 percent to 15 percent, and allow pass-through corporations to pay taxes at the corporate -- not the individual -- rate. He also wants to completely eliminate capital gains taxes, taxes on dividends and interest, and the estate tax.

This is honestly the first thing I've ever read in 29 years of life where I said, "If this ever passes I'm moving out of the country."

 

[SolKane]

Pretty depressing about Weiner, one of the few congresspeople I had any respect for, pre-scandal.

 

[Skiptastic]

Hey, I want to eliminate capital gains taxes too!

Spoiler

Because it should be taxed as income, not a special tax rate.

I really wonder the impact of essentially erasing all of the individual "special" taxes (estate tax, capital gains tax, dividends, etc.) and simply taxing all flows of money as income would be? It ought to simplify the tax code, but someone I'm sure can think of other external impacts. I'd like to discuss that. Should be fun brainstorming...

 

[Particle Physicist]

No wonder we are all fat and unhealthy if that is deemed an acceptable way to feed a family of four.

Exactly what I was thinking.

:/

 

[AlteredBeast]

It would be a shame if that were indeed the norm. My kid, however, loves tomatoes, broccoli, and carrots. We eat veggies and fruits every day.

350 per month. 400 tops.

 

[bionic77]

Fantastic thread title.

Also, eznark thanks for suggesting this thread. If you didn't suggest I never would have discovered you were a pig farmer!

 

[RustyNails]

Boss.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

http://i.imgur.com/7DIrZ.jpg[IMG]

Boss.[/QUOTE]
Who? Context?

 

[Jackson50]

Romney received a few worthwhile endorsements today; this is particularly important in Florida. Now, a single endorsement is inconsequential. But if a trend develops, it will indicate the establishment favors Romney which is crucial to become the nominee.

Nope. Aldi is by far the cheapest I've seen in the philly area, but everything they carry tends to be off brand, the stores are small, etc.

Aldi is great for certain items. But their produce is wholly underwhelming, and the stores smell odd.

 

[RustyNails]

Who? Context?

John Boehner smoking a cig on the White house lawn during a congressional picnic.

 

[Manmademan]

Who? Context?

looks like boehner smoking? Can't see why this is interesting tho

 

[Trojita]

CHART OF THE DAY: Tim Pawlenty's Tax Cuts Are Bush's On Steroids
Brian Beutler | June 15, 2011, 3:45PM

Tim Pawlenty has a plan for America, and it would force the government out of just about every sphere of American life where it exists now.

Pawlenty's tax plan, by design and effect, would dramatically erode the government's revenue base. As noted here, his plan would reduce the top individual income tax rate from 35 percent to 25 percent, cut the top corporate rate from 25 percent to 15 percent, and allow pass-through corporations to pay taxes at the corporate -- not the individual -- rate. He also wants to completely eliminate capital gains taxes, taxes on dividends and interest, and the estate tax.

An independent analysis found that it would cost the Treasury over $11 trillion over the course of a decade -- nearly three times the cost of the Bush tax cuts -- most of which would benefit the wealthiest Americans.

But how severe would the upward redistribution be? The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities crunched the numbers and came up with a handy chart

After taxes, the very wealthiest people in the country would see their after-tax income spike by over one-third. Those on the other end of the income spectrum would hardly notice the bump. And that's to say nothing of the fact that, without all that revenue, the government would no longer be able to fund the services many middle class and lower income Americans depend on.

From CBPP: "In 2013 the Pawlenty plan would give people in the top one-tenth of 1 percent on the income scale (i.e., people with incomes above $2.7 million) an average annual tax cut of $1.8 million"

His plan is driving the debate among GOP presidential hopefuls. Though not all of them will ultimately match his cuts or exceed them, they will certainly be using it as a benchmark.

​

################


HOLY SHIT!!! T-Paw is crazy as hell. I thought he was suppose to be the reasonable one like Romney and Huntsman. Who is T-Paw trying to fool. I doubt most middle of the road (a few in number I know) GOP members would even think this is a reasonable starting point.

Is it just me or does each time someone on the right puts out a budget plan, it gets worse and worse?

This guy needs to be dragged into the street and get the shit beat out of him. What a fucking traitor.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

John Boehner smoking a cig on the White house lawn during a congressional picnic.

Did he offer one to the President? That would be a hell of a photo. (I know he quit.)

This guy needs to be dragged into the street and get the shit beat out of him. What a fucking traitor.

Take it down. Several notches. This is not Pakistan.

 

[RustyNails]

Did he offer one to the President? That would be a hell of a photo. (I know he quit.)

That would have been a legendary photo but unfortunately, Obama wasn't there.

 

[scorcho]

guys, don't worry - Pawlenty was only being aspirational with his 10-year plan. he doesn't need a background in macroeconomics or even fleeting knowledge of our economic performance over the last decade or two to lead our recovery - he can will us by aspirations and instinct alone.

this is the quintessential Kosmo candidate.

 

[PantherLotus]

What NeoGAF thought of eznark before today:

What NeoGAF thinks of eznark after today:

 

[Amir0x]

Fuck the Democrats and the President for joining in the ruckus to force Weiner to resign

bunch of gutless goddamn parties this country has

 

[scorcho]

Fuck the Democrats and the President for joining in the ruckus to force Weiner to resign

bunch of gutless goddamn parties this country has

i'm somewhat in agreement, but Weiner also faced the highly likely prospect that his district would be the sacrificial lamb for redistricting with NYS Republicans. as it stands, both parties will give up one seat - one GOP district upstate, one Dem district in the City.

there's still a chance he could repair relations and lay the groundwork with staff and donors to enter the NYC mayoral race.

 

[Pctx]

So I don't get the hate on Boehner for smoking... what's the story on that GAF?

 

[Clevinger]

Fuck the Democrats and the President for joining in the ruckus to force Weiner to resign

bunch of gutless goddamn parties this country has

Yes, jump to the defense of the moron who not only started this, and idiotically drew it out, but probably also harassed women online.

 

[Suikoguy]

In other news:

The Senate has voted to end about $6 billion in taxpayer subsidies for the ethanol industry. The vote on an amendment was 73 to 27.

Under the amendment, co-sponsored by Sens. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., and Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., refiners would lose the 45-cent-a-gallon subsidy, and the 54-cent-per-gallon tariff on imported ethanol from Brazil and other countries would be eliminated, Reuters writes.

Backing the repeal were 33 Republicans, 38 Democrats and both of the chamber's independents, who caucus with Democrats, The Hill reports. Voting to keep the tax breaks were 14 Republicans and 13 Democrats.

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...11/06/senate-votes-to-end-ethanol-subsidies/1

 

[JGS]

Is Walmart not cheaper than the grocery stores you guys visit? Here in SC, it's pretty much the best place for food at relatively low costs.

Nope.

Kroger & Aldi all the way although I rarely shop at Aldi.

 

[scorcho]

In other news:



http://content.usatoday.com/communi...11/06/senate-votes-to-end-ethanol-subsidies/1

huzzah.