Invisible_Insane
Member
78% of Americans are imbeciles.Bulbo Urethral Baggins said:
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PoliGAF 2011: Of Weiners, Boehners, Santorum, and Teabags
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TacticalFox88
Banned
Or they probably don't know what the hell the debt ceiling is/does. Another failure of the American Educational system.Invisible_Insane said:
Cygnus X-1
Member
Bulbo Urethral Baggins said:
These people should go to Greece first.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Skiptastic said:
Logistically speaking how would the Congress veto an executive order from the President?
Cygnus X-1
Member
mckmas8808 said:
Excuse me: where are the electric wires?
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
Our trains look so ghetto. 
It's all in the wording. The public is uninformed as to the consequences.Bulbo Urethral Baggins said:
Obama first argued that "the public at large" has been paying little attention "to the ins and outs of how a Treasury auction goes." Instead, the president said, "They're worrying about their family, they're worrying about their jobs, they're worrying about their neighborhood. They've got a lot of other things on their plate."
Recent polls support the president on that point. A Pew Research Center survey conducted this past week found that only 18 percent of Americans say they understand very well "what would happen if the government does not raise the federal debt limit." Another 37 percent say they understand it fairly well. That leaves nearly half of Americans who say they don't understand the issue, either not too well (27 percent) or not at all well (14 percent), or who say they are unsure (4 percent).
Obama next turned to the way question phrasing might influence poll results. "f you said to the American people, 'Is it a good idea for the United States not to pay its bills and potentially create another recession that could throw millions of more people out of work?' I feel pretty confident I can get a majority on my side on that one."
While no polls have asked that question exactly, the one that comes closest supports the president's position. The same newly released Pew Research survey finds that 75 percent of Americans say they are very or somewhat concerned that "not raising the debt limit would force the government into default and hurt the nation's economy." And those concerns have increased from 63 percent of people who were very concerned or somewhat concerned in May.
Recent polls support the president on that point. A Pew Research Center survey conducted this past week found that only 18 percent of Americans say they understand very well "what would happen if the government does not raise the federal debt limit." Another 37 percent say they understand it fairly well. That leaves nearly half of Americans who say they don't understand the issue, either not too well (27 percent) or not at all well (14 percent), or who say they are unsure (4 percent).
Obama next turned to the way question phrasing might influence poll results. "f you said to the American people, 'Is it a good idea for the United States not to pay its bills and potentially create another recession that could throw millions of more people out of work?' I feel pretty confident I can get a majority on my side on that one."
While no polls have asked that question exactly, the one that comes closest supports the president's position. The same newly released Pew Research survey finds that 75 percent of Americans say they are very or somewhat concerned that "not raising the debt limit would force the government into default and hurt the nation's economy." And those concerns have increased from 63 percent of people who were very concerned or somewhat concerned in May.
Asking if we should increase the debt limit yields a predictable response from the public. Asking whether the US should default on its debts, spike interest rates and likely spark a new recession, and the answers would be different.
Elected officials should not base their governing on the views of an ignorant public.
empty vessel
Member
TacticalFox88 said:
This is the correct answer. If you asked Americans whether they desire the expected consequences of the failure to raise the debt ceiling, the responses will overwhelmingly run in the other direction. The gap between the name of something and the consequences if that something were to come to fruition is where one finds the success of conservative politicians.
Not raising the "debt limit" sounds good, especially to one who has been primed (as all Americans have) to (falsely) believe we have a "debt crisis." It capitalizes on ignorance.
Invisible_Insane
Member
Just popped up on Reuters that Moody's may cut the US's bond rating.
Sheeeeeeeeeeiiiiiiiiiiiiittttttttttt
Sheeeeeeeeeeiiiiiiiiiiiiittttttttttt
Escape Goat
Member
Bush raised the debt ceiling 7 times but now GOP is adamantly opposed to doing so for some reason...how very interesting...
jamesinclair
Banned
Invisible_Insane said:
Means absolutely nothing.
About as relevant as me cutting my rating for Moodys.
Cygnus X-1 said:
Only a tiny portion of Amtrak runs off electricity.
Silly Cygnus, thinking anything in america can be oil-free.
Skiptastic
Member
Hmmm...that is a good question. Meh, fuck it. Take away veto power then. But create the legislation as granting power to the President that can only be overruled by a 2/3 vote in Congress? As in Congress cannot limit the President's ability to set the debt limit without a 2/3 vote. Congressional leaders can propose to limit it as often as they want in the meantime, but a 2/3 required vote to restrict it (and no filibustering to waste the time of the American people) ought to work, right?mckmas8808 said:
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Invisible_Insane said:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...ts-are-holding-debt-limit-hostage.php?ref=fpb
GOP Masks Infighting By Claiming Democrats Are Holding Debt Limit Hostage
GOP Masks Infighting By Claiming Democrats Are Holding Debt Limit Hostage
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Averon said:
President Obama is on a spending spree? :lol Hell I wish he was.
Escape Goat
Member
Averon said:
Rush Limbaugh would say this is the Democrats projecting onto the Republicans. What the Democrats accuse the GOP of doing is actually what Democrats are doing. lulz.
Invisible_Insane
Member
It's not like I think the rating agencies should be the end-all as far as evaluating risk in the markets, given how badly they failed with the financial crisis. But you can't dismiss this as wholly inconsequential--having our debt downgraded is unequivocally bad news.jamesinclair said:
empty vessel
Member
Evlar said:
Extra emphasis added.
Bay Maximus
Banned
Invisible_Insane said:
I agree. No point in cracking open Pandora's box even a little bit. Not happy right now
RustyNails
Member
Moody's WILL cut the bond rating. It's inevitable...US doesn't get a pass just because we have a pretty big economy.Invisible_Insane said:
Republicans know this. They want our ratings to turn to junk so they can blame the black man for screwing up the world. I'm absolutely convinced right now.
TacticalFox88
Banned
Of course. That's been their goal(s):RustyNails said:
1)Screw President Obama in ANY way they can no matter how big or small
2)Take back the White House in 2012
3)Sabotage the economy
4)Blame Obama for said sabotage and take advantage of American People's ignorance.
5)???
6)Profit!
Or not considering they screwed everyone over
Invisible_Insane
Member
It's pretty tragic, too, because the yield on T-bills was something like 2.9 yesterday. Now would be an awesome time to finance some infrastructure.RustyNails said:
RustyNails
Member
Fuck that. Canada looks so much better right now. Universal Healthcare bitches. USA is a lost cause and it's on a downward spiral because no one has the cojones to take on the now mafia-like Republican Party.Invisible_Insane said:
jamesinclair
Banned
Invisible_Insane said:
The ratings are supposedly so people can get an idea of the credit-worthiness of a company without having to do deep reaserch on them.
China isnt about to say "Oh shit, these super reliable Moody people are saying this USA thing we've dumped money into isnt as reliable as we thought they were!"
It means nothing.
It's just Moodys way of trying to appear to be relevant.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
jamesinclair said:
Man a LARGE percentage of the stock market is perception. So if/when Moody's does this it will affect the market. Regardless of if it should or not.
jamesinclair
Banned
mckmas8808 said:
Yeah, the stock market is about perception, but we're talking about USA, people arent dumb enough to think that a rating has absolutely any affect on anything.
Itll get "lols"
Moody can give USA junk status and the stock market will go up a couple of points.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
I do think we're nearing a HOLYCRAP moment.
Cygnus X-1
Member
jamesinclair said:
But is this train a really old model, right? RIGHT??
Because I weekly use the following train, which already is 10 years-old:
The Moody's thing is a nonissue. They are considering downgrading the US credit rating not because of our long term creditworthiness, but because of the chance that no deal is reached by August 2. If the ceiling is increased, all is well.
You're out of your mind.jamesinclair said:
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
HylianTom said:
The funny part is that he may not want to!
RustyNails said:
I'm pretty much at the point where whatever happens happen. And we're just going to have to suck it up and face the consequences. No more excuses for the electorate. In other words, we get what we deserve. That's happening as we speak in FL, OH, and WI. I have no pity for those people.
I imagine this is a response to the debt negotiations. If they raise the debt limit punctually, it should not be a problem.Invisible_Insane said:
Additionally, our unabashed, unflagging support of Israel. As it became painfully clear that the U.S. would not apply even negligible pressure, their disapproval increased. Moreover, I think our unpopularity is a function of general Arab dissatisfaction. They are suffering economically and politically. And as a traditionally unpopular actor, our standing will suffer.Evlar said:
I think an important point in the data that has been ignored is the popularity of Turkey. This could have fairly serious implications for geopolitics. As Turkey attempts to balance its Western and Eastern inclinations, it will be enticed to pursue its regional hegemony. And Turkey, as should be expected, has begun to embrace their power in the region; this is especially true regarding the Palestinian issue. And given U.S. intransigence, this could distress relations with the U.S and its role as a NATO state. Currently, I think they strike a delicate, effective balance. But the situation warrants watching.
Journeywalker
Member
TacticalFox88 said:
Oh, they can still make a profit, but it takes a certain kind of evil:
They just have to short indexes that have high correlations with the economy like the Wilshire 5000, S&P 500, and Safian Benchmark. They gain politically AND financially by fucking the country.
Averon said:
I've been there for a while now. While I still pay attention to national politics, and still vote, and still sympathize with the left on many issues, I treat it more like a spectator sport and am personally preparing for the worst.
On a bright side, I've been paying more attention to local politics. It seems that efforts on this level are more productive, hopes are more realistic, and goals are more attainable.
ElectricThunder
Member
Averon said:
I can never bring myself to get behind the bolded---as it belies the fact that much of what has been wrought was INTENTIONALLY wrought on the public over decades of messaging and other shit to take advantage of the same generally unsuspecting folks you'd find in any country in the world.
I know "why" the notion exists and is at times valid, but the whole "incompetence, not malice" angle will never stop rubbing me the wrong way as an all too readily acceptable patsy nowadays. : /
It'd be great if more people in Fl, WI, my own state of GA, and so on snapped to it and spontaneously generated the critical thinking/sense of civics that many of them were never taught in their formative years and said "no more"---but such a thing is tricky/semi-magical, especially given the "desperation" level isn't there yet in terms of real deal civil implosion.
Social engineering can be a force for good or ill, and when enough powerful folk choose to think short term and reckon they can just fuck off to elsewhere or get Rapture-ported or some such instead of playing long ball---things get worse before they get better.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
speculawyer
Member
Our train systems is a neglected mess. With a near zero gas tax, everyone drives cars. We have built up an infrastructure that is almost completely car and oil dependent to operate. Then oil went from $20/barrel in 2000 to $100/barrel now with nearly 2/3s of it being imported oil . . . . and we all scratch our heads trying to figure out why our economy no longer works. Duh.Cygnus X-1 said:
But sadly, there are no easy fixes.
NullPointer
Member
Time to accidentally hit Moody's with a few hellfire missiles.Invisible_Insane said:
PhoenixDark
Banned
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/07/president-obama-gave-both-sides.php
Cantor left the meeting, went on Fox, and accused the president of angrily leaving the meeting. Regardless of whether it's true, it's clear this guy has no intention of negotiating anything.
You really gotta love the irony at play here. The very underwriters of a lot of Tea Party activity have now created a monster they cant control. Wall Street knows what will happen if we default but the idiots they rabble roused are now the ones that stand between them and economic ruin. The GOP has backed themselves into a corner and now each of them are going to have to take a bite of the shit sandwich they helped make. Obama played this like a pro. He dangled a carrot in front of them and took it away at the last minute making them scurry to figure out what to do. The GOP is getting exactly what they deserve by playing both sides of the coin and watching them squirm is just so funny.
speculawyer
Member
I was listening to Bill Maher's Overtime and Anne Coulter thought we dropped bombs in Egypt. I knew she is a complete zealot ideologue but I never knew she was that completely retarded.
http://www.hbo.com/real-time-with-b...0/219-episode/video/219-july-8-overtime.html/
Amazingly stupid. Holy fuck.
http://www.hbo.com/real-time-with-b...0/219-episode/video/219-july-8-overtime.html/
Amazingly stupid. Holy fuck.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
I didn't click on the link, but maybe she meant to say Libya?
StopMakingSense
Member
See we just need to bundle US Bonds with other bonds, creating a new security, and BAM! back to AAA.NullPointer said:
speculawyer said:
She's been known to say completely nonsenscial factually incorrect things and stand by them during the course of an interview.
Total nutjob.
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