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[PantherLotus]

I think you're missing some MSNBC show. Run along.

Oh dear did I hurt your feelings? Let me know when you want in at the big boy table. We're talking about the possibility of the narrative of a weak-kneed Obama being incorrect. Let us know if you're able to think on multiple fronts at the same time. It takes time, so don't beat yourself up for it.

Uh, did Obama walk out of negotiations or did he just walk out of the room when the meeting was finished :lol

And how can professional journalists confuse the two?

They're not in the room; you're reading first reports of both sides trying to control imagery.

 

[RustyNails]

I want to punch Eric Cantor in his smug fucking face.

I wake up everyday with this sentiment.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Although I prefer Rachel Maddow, I like how Ed brings on confrontational guests. This Tea Party Nation guy is great.

EDIT: AHAHAHAHA "Rich people create jobs!"

 

[SlipperySlope]

And payroll taxes.

If you want to get technical, poor people receive more benefits from the government than they pay out.

 

[PantherLotus]

If you want to get technical, poor people receive more benefits from the government than they pay out.

The same could be said for the wealthiest people in the history of the world.

 

[Oblivion]

Meh, sorry guys but this shit's just a performance piece.

Let's wait until the capitulator-in-chief actually doesn't capitulate by the end of the week before we start shootin' up the sky in celebration.

Wow. You've got to know you're a hack (O'Donnell, I mean) when you not only defend, but prop up, Obama's negotiating skill.

Clevinger, I likes you real good and all, but you leave Larry alone, damn it!

 

[Chichikov]

If you want to get technical, poor people receive more benefits from the government than they pay out.

I don't know how that's "getting technical", more like "getting irrelevant", but many rich people get more benefit from the government than they pay out.

 

[SlipperySlope]

The same could be said for the wealthiest people in the history of the world.

The wealthiest americans pay more in taxes than they receive in direct benefits from the government.

 

[A Human Becoming]

The wealthiest americans pay more in taxes than they receive in direct benefits from the government.

Yeah, but there are a lot of indirect benefits certainly.

 

[SlipperySlope]

I don't know how that's "getting technical", more like "getting irrelevant", but many rich people get more benefit from the government than they pay out.

Who, exactly? (note: don't include people that are directly employed by the government or contractors).

 

[PantherLotus]

The wealthiest americans pay more in taxes than they receive in direct benefits from the government.

1. The Wealthiest people in the history of the world are Americans.
2. They receive more benefits than they pay, direct or otherwise. (see #1).

This is really not up for debate, man. I know you're under the impression that poor people are takers and rich people are makers, but they're both takers. Rich people directly benefit from our patent system, inheritance laws, court system, and stable marketplace -- all due to our giant fucking military. And unless you suddenly want to defend deficit spending, the rich collect far more in benefits than they pay out. This is a fact.

 

[Cyan]

The wealthiest americans pay more in taxes than they receive in direct benefits from the government.

Do they? You have a source? I'd be interested to see that quantified.

 

[PantherLotus]

Well what's a "direct benefit" anyway? A welfare check?

 

[NullPointer]

Well what's a "direct benefit" anyway? A welfare check?

Does corporate welfare count? The lazy bums leeching from the public dole.

Why I oughta...

 

[SlipperySlope]

1. The Wealthiest people in the history of the world are Americans.
2. They receive more benefits than they pay, direct or otherwise. (see #1).

This is really not up for debate, man. I know you're under the impression that poor people are takers and rich people are makers, but they're both takers. Rich people directly benefit from our patent system, inheritance laws, court system, and stable marketplace -- all due to our giant fucking military. And unless you suddenly want to defend deficit spending, the rich collect far more in benefits than they pay out. This is a fact.

You're reaching far into the indirect area. Inheritance laws? They're benefiting because of their parents success in that case, not because of the government. The rest are also indirect.

 

[slit]

Lindsay Graham, yeah we basically fucked up.

Haha, the GOP really miscalculated.

 

[SlipperySlope]

Well what's a "direct benefit" anyway? A welfare check?

Direct benefits include entitlements (not just welfare), highways, public schools, personal safety, things along that nature.

An indirect benefit would be like the stable marketplace thing you brought up.

 

[zero_suit]

Lindsay Graham, yeah we basically fucked up.

Haha, the GOP really miscalculated.

LMAO, oh well.

 

[RustyNails]

Lindsay Graham, yeah we basically fucked up.

Haha, the GOP really miscalculated.

I'm liking this Senate Republicans vs House Republicans skirmish.

 

[Trurl]

Lindsay Graham, yeah we basically fucked up.

Haha, the GOP really miscalculated.

Wow, that's strangely candid.

 

[NullPointer]

Lindsay Graham, yeah we basically fucked up.

Haha, the GOP really miscalculated.

McConnell told radio host Laura Ingraham that a default could hand President Obama and other Democrats “an opportunity to blame Republicans for a bad economy” and “destroys” the GOP’s brand.

Well at least they're looking out for whats important in all this. Fucking jerks.

 

[Clevinger]

Oh dear did I hurt your feelings? Let me know when you want in at the big boy table. We're talking about the possibility of the narrative of a weak-kneed Obama being incorrect. Let us know if you're able to think on multiple fronts at the same time. It takes time, so don't beat yourself up for it.

Except for the part where I said I'd give him kudos if he follows through. You know, when it goes beyond just talk. I'm not sure what you're mad about, exactly.

 

[Oblivion]

Lindsay Graham, yeah we basically fucked up.

Haha, the GOP really miscalculated.

Backpeddle in 3...2...

"By blaming ourselves, I meant to say that we haven't done ENOUGH to stop Obama's reckless spending binge on our grandchildren!"

Direct benefits include entitlements (not just welfare), highways, public schools, personal safety, things along that nature.

You don't think the richies benefit tremendously more from such a thing? Imagine 2 people. One has a safe in his house full of a million dollars. The other has $75 for food money in his studio in compton. Who benefits more from law enforcement?

 

[TacticalFox88]

Lindsay Graham, yeah we basically fucked up.

Haha, the GOP really miscalculated.

This really is turning out pretty fucking awesome.

 

[Byakuya769]

If you want to get technical, poor people receive more benefits from the government than they pay out.

Quantify that for us, since we're getting technical.

 

[SlipperySlope]

Backpeddle in 3...2...

"By blaming ourselves, I meant to say that we haven't done ENOUGH to stop Obama's reckless spending binge on our grandchildren!"



You don't think the richies benefit tremendously more from such a thing? Imagine 2 people. One has a safe in his house full of a million dollars. The other has $75 for food money in his studio in compton. Who benefits more from law enforcement?

Not sure who'd keep a million dollars in a safe. A thief may get a valuable watch or TV or something from robbing a rich person. At the very most, a nice car. But that's only a fraction of his wealth. Whereas if you rob $75 from a poor person, you may have just grabbed all of the wealth he has.

The biggest benefit from personal safety is getting injured or killed, of which both sides benefit equally.

 

[empty vessel]

Direct benefits include entitlements (not just welfare), highways, public schools, personal safety, things along that nature.

An indirect benefit would be like the stable marketplace thing you brought up.

I don't understand what the point of drawing a distinction between a direct and indirect benefit is. Both are benefits, and isn't that all that's relevant? Indeed, we could say that the poor are affirmatively harmed by the 'indirect' benefits to the wealthy (i.e., "the system"). When we add them up, the poor are at a deficit.

Obviously, the wealthy have benefited more from our society and the poor much, much, much, much less. Indeed, one could say that that is what money does: measures social benefits. What else is there to say about it?

Isn't this just an inane 'lucky ducky' argument?

 

[SlipperySlope]

Quantify that for us, since we're getting technical.

I listed a few things in an above post.

 

[Byakuya769]

I listed a few things in an above post.

So you don't know the meaning of quantify or technical. Cool.

 

[NullPointer]

So you don't know the meaning of quantify or technical. Cool.

Reading all of your posts in Idris Elba's voice is even cooler.

But don't mind me. Carry on.

 

[SlipperySlope]

I don't understand what the point of drawing a distinction between a direct and indirect benefit is. Both are benefits, and isn't that all that's relevant? Indeed, we could say that the poor are affirmatively harmed by the 'indirect' benefits to the wealthy (i.e., "the system"). When we add them up, the poor are at a deficit.

Obviously, the wealthy have benefited more from our society and the poor much, much, much, much less. Indeed, one could say that that is what money does: measures social benefits. What else is there to say about it?

Isn't this just an inane 'lucky ducky' argument?

When you go indirect, you can stretch things really far. You can go as far as to say "Well, they benefit from the country not being communist. Then they'd have ALL of their money taken away!". The whole argument gets inane then.

Pantherlotus almost went this far when he mentioned inheritance and a stable market.

 

[Byakuya769]

Reading all of your posts in Idris Elba's voice is even cooler.

But don't mind me. Carry on.

In Stringer's or Idris Elba's real accent? Either is pretty damn cool.

 

[NullPointer]

In Stringer's or Idris Elba's real accent? Either is pretty damn cool.

Luther's at the moment. Especially with that expression.

 

[Rubenov]

I want to punch Eric Cantor in his smug fucking face.

Sweeeet, I'm not the only one.

 

[Byakuya769]

Luther's at the moment. Especially with that expression.

Hah, now I'm reading my internal posting voice in the same way. I like it.

Sweeeet, I'm not the only one.

Actually received a scholarship from a school that listed him as a notable alumni. Trashed it immediately.

 

[Clevinger]

Hah, now I'm readin' me internal postin' voice in the same way. I lahk it.

.

 

[ToxicAdam]

1936 video of an assembly line in Flint, MI.


I found it interesting. Count the fat people.

 

[jamesinclair]

But is this train a really old model, right? RIGHT??

]

Silly Cygnus, thinking Amtrak is given funding for new trains.

The only time a train is retired before 40 years have passed is if its destroyed in an accident.

Although to be fair, the one high speed rail line uses trains that are 11 years old, and they sure look nice in comparison. (Democrat congress + democrat president)

(look at old smokey over to the left)

Look at what the MBTA took delivery of on only last month!

A brand new (very used) train from Maryland!

 

[Oblivion]

Not sure who'd keep a million dollars in a safe. A thief may get a valuable watch or TV or something from robbing a rich person. At the very most, a nice car. But that's only a fraction of his wealth. Whereas if you rob $75 from a poor person, you may have just grabbed all of the wealth he has.

The biggest benefit from personal safety is getting injured or killed, of which both sides benefit equally.

Holy shit. Friggin seriously, yo? I mean, really?

 

[Cyan]

highways, public schools, personal safety, things along that nature.

Hard to say if all of these are really direct benefits. I mean, I directly benefit from a few specific highways, but not the vast majority of them. I directly benefited from my education at the local elementary school, middle school, high school, and at university, but that's one student out of hundreds or thousands at four schools out of thousands of schools across the country. I've never directly benefited from the fire department, and the police department only once or twice that I can recall.

If those are what count as direct benefits, it should only be a few more years before I've paid more in taxes than I've received in direct benefits, if I haven't already. Which, since I'm hardly rich, makes that argument not especially meaningful or enticing.

 

[jamesinclair]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/13/obama-debt-ceiling-meeting_n_897834.html

Thank you, sir, for finally doing what we expected of you.

I wonder what Obama would have done in the cuban missile cri-compromise?

"Listen USSR, we'll give you Puerto Rico if you just delay those ships for a month"



Does anybody really believe Obama wont cave?

 

[Crisis]

I've read a couple of pages back, but I'm confused. Obviously, the Republicans are fucking up on this one, but what are the odds that they will back down off this nonsense and raise the debt ceiling?

 

[Oblivion]

Michele Bachmann: ‘I Just Want To Make It Absolutely Clear: I Abhor Slavery.

Good to know, Michelle.

 

[PantherLotus]

The point is not some mystical point like "we're not taking all their money, therefor they benefit the most," the point is real, concrete. The point is that the wealthy in America benefit far more than any other from the US Government. This is the majority of justification for a progressive tax code -- it's paying your fair share, not "proppin up the lazies."

 

[Tamanon]

I've read a couple of pages back, but I'm confused. Obviously, the Republicans are fucking up on this one, but what are the odds that they will back down off this nonsense and raise the debt ceiling?

The debt ceiling will be raised, and I'm starting to think it'll be raised with no conditions.

 

[bananas]

I wonder what Obama would have done in the cuban missile cri-compromise?

"Listen USSR, we'll give you Puerto Rico if you just delay those ships for a month"



Does anybody really believe Obama wont cave?

Actually, when it comes to foreign policy, Obama seems to be a shit ton more agressive. It's only when dealing with Republicans he goes into compromise mode.

 

[Clevinger]

I wonder what Obama would have done in the cuban missile cri-compromise?

"Listen USSR, we'll give you Puerto Rico if you just delay those ships for a month"



Does anybody really believe Obama wont cave?

Even if he doesn't, it begs the question of where exactly he's putting his foot down. Is he still letting them cut social security, medicare, and medicaid? A true "putting his foot down" would be to say, "No taxes, period? No spending cuts, period. Do a clean vote." Senate Republicans have already admitted publicly that the debt limit has to be raised. There's really no reason at all to placate them.

 

[Matt]

When you go indirect, you can stretch things really far. You can go as far as to say "Well, they benefit from the country not being communist. Then they'd have ALL of their money taken away!". The whole argument gets inane then.

Pantherlotus almost went this far when he mentioned inheritance and a stable market.

The rich take more advantage of the systems that society puts in place using tax money then the poor do. Without the highway system, how could any modern corporation grow? What about the airlines and air transportation, how would that work without the FAA? Without the creation of the internet and the federal regulations that developed it, how many millionaires and billionaire would never have been created? How much money do they get to keep because patent and trademark systems protect their creations? Without the FCC, how would television and radio have ever developed into the monsters they are today?

I can go on and on. You're argument is very weak.

 

[PantherLotus]

I wonder what Obama would have done in the cuban missile cri-compromise?

"Listen USSR, we'll give you Puerto Rico if you just delay those ships for a month"



Does anybody really believe Obama wont cave?

I don't believe he'll cave, but not because I think he's a good negotiator (he is), but because we've already seen the end game. Wall Street fat cats are calling up their GOP fat-cat buddies (same guys, really) and saying, "enough nonsense."

The McConnell flop was the real tell. It really was.

 

[jamesinclair]

I don't believe he'll cave, but not because I think he's a good negotiator (he is), but because we've already seen the end game. Wall Street fat cats are calling up their GOP fat-cat buddies (same guys, really) and saying, "enough nonsense."

The McConnell flop was the real tell. It really was.

But thats what Im saying, even with wall street forcing the GOP to backpeddle, I can see Obama throwing in some garbage just because.

Medicare cuts? Cutting funds for Amtrak? Closing Nasa for a month? He'll go for something the GOP isnt even asking for and toss it in, just because.

Edit:

Oh heres a good one I can see him doing:

"Lets raise the debt ceiling by x amount, as long as 1/2x goes to the pentagon!"