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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control

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GhaleonEB

Member
Yeah, I don't think you would be singing this tune if Republicans ever get full power again.

I am comfortable with the democratic process, as envisioned by the founders of the country. Advent of the filibuster came later, through Senate rule changes, and its modern usage to throttle damn near everything is also new. I have said this many times over the past several years but to say it even more clearly:

I am comfortable with a majority rule Senate, even if Republicans take the Senate and House and White House. I want this country to function as intended. I won't like the policies, but if elected they should be able to enact them because they will have been elected by the people to do just that, for better or worse.

The filibuster is a mechanism that was retained to ensure full deliberation. The House was designed to function as a majoritarian institution. With the exceptions of proposed constitutional amendments and overriding a presidential veto, only a simple majority is required in the House. The Senate was designed to be more deliberative. That is why they were designated the responsibility of ratifying treaties and other functions. Thus, the filibuster was retained, after its accidental conception, to ensure the majority did not silence the minority. But the filibuster has become routinely exploited to impede legislation. If the filibuster were utilized only in this manner, I'd support its retention. But it's not functioned in this manner for a while. Presently, it's an instrument to undermine the democratic process. And its imperative we either reform or eliminate it. And you wouldn't sing this tune if Republicans gained unified power.

The Senate was intended to be more deliberative, but also to function with majority rule. The filibuster came later.

We can have a deliberative Senate that also functions. I do not believe this can be accomplished without a major reform (and removal) of the filibuster.


################

I have this hypothesis that part of the reason Obama is playing the "what is he hiding?" line with Romney's tax returns is that they actually know what he's hiding. They had the oppo research dump from the McCain campaign, I suspect someone gave them the tax returns, or at least a heads up on the goodies they contain, long ago. Specifically, I think Romney may have paid little or no taxes for some years.

From this morning's Plum Line round up:

* New Obama ad asks if Romney paid no taxes at all: The offensive continues: The Obama campaign is going up with a new ad in Pennsylvania today that hits Romney on every tax front: It notes he paid only 15 percent on millions in income; wonders aloud whether Romney paid no taxes at all in some years; raises the “tax havens” and “offshore accounts”; asks why he won’t release more returns; and intones: “Mitt Romney has used every trick in the book...what is Mitt Romney hiding?”

The new spot, which is timed to a Romney visit to Pennsylvania, suggests that the Obama camp will be raising the possibility that Romney paid nothing in taxes to increase pressure on him to release them — and will be making this case in forthcoming ads in multiple swing states.

Separately:

Meanwhile, Mark Halperin notes that the Obama team’s attacks on Romney over the tax returns is only beginning, and that Republicans are getting very nervous. And note this:

For now, without a doubt, Romney is losing on two fronts: the politico-media dialogue is not focused on the Obama economic record and Romney is being defined by the opposition....most of those nervous Republicans would be even more nervous if they knew what Chicago was still, patiently, sitting on.

That's where Obama seems to be heading. Imagine if at the end of the summer, when the final sprint begins, that it comes out that Romney dodged all or nearly all taxes for years, and that's what he's hiding by not releasing his tax returns. Either he releases them to disprove this, unearthing everything he's quite clearly trying to shield from public view, or he lets the claims go unanswered. Very damaging either way, especially after he's been defined as the Obama team is defining him.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Yeah, I don't think you would be singing this tune if Republicans ever get full power again.

Conserva-GAF really need to stop with this fallacy. Many of us have repeated over and over that we would be okay with a simple majority rule. Exactly as the House functions.
 

Tim-E

Member
As has been said in the past, when you don't have a record to run on, make your opponent someone to run from. Make a big election about small things.

Ended Don't Ask, Don't Tell
Stopped defending DOMA
Ordered the mission to kill Osama bin Laden and other terrorist leaders
War in Iraq is over
War in Afghanistan is ending
Signed the ACA,most significant social legislation since the 60s, into law
Signed the Fair Pay Act
Saved the auto industry
Granted waivers for states to get out of No Child Left Behind


So yeah, he has nothing to run on.
 

RDreamer

Member

While the cocaine use complain is pretty stupid, what the hell at this:

Let's look at his own family tree. His Uncle Omar, remember? The illegal immigrant who was picked up for driving drunk. And then there was Zeituni, she was living as an illegal immigrant in Boston.

Huh? His family does some illegal stuff and that looks bad on him how?
 

Allard

Member
Conserva-GAF really need to stop with this fallacy. Many of us have repeated over and over that we would be okay with a simple majority rule. Exactly as the House functions.

Yep, I want more accountability and less excuses for passing legislation. There are already safeguards in place for large sweeping changes (Treaties, Constitutional amendments etc.), we elect officials in to pass an agenda and not play politics over some 'hypothetical' possibility. By taking away the 'excuses' like the filibuster that gives majority rule, and if they enact legislation they know will be unpopular then that is theirs to fight, and if they lose someone will remove the policy whatever it might be in the future. If its damaging it can be fixed, if its good, no one is going to touch it till proven differently, its how our democracy 'should' work.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
I look forward to the "Fast and Furious" version targeting Obama.

"A border agent was killed with a gun the Obama administration let walk across the Mexican border in the hands of a known drug gang. The President says he and AG Holder knew nothing of the program, and yet claims "Executive Privilege" in hiding the documents related to the case. Makes you wonder what else he is hiding."

Funny thing is, there is an agency dedicated to making sure Romney has been on the up and up with his taxes - the IRS. He can be audited at any time.

The House claimed they wanted to investigate holder's involvement during fast & furious.
The documents the obama administration claimed executive privilege over were created after fast and furious was shut down and declassified. They're irrelevant to proving his involvement during the program, and actually would be ex post facto prohibited in any proceedings against him, I think.

Now, there will probably be an ad, since you can deceive others all you want in America without civil or criminal penalties, but don't act like these are the same thing.

But false equivalences are your forte, aren't they?
 

Kosmo

Banned
The House claimed they wanted to investigate holder's involvement during fast & furious.
The documents the obama administration claimed executive privilege over were created after fast and furious was shut down and declassified. They're irrelevant to proving his involvement during the program, and actually would be ex post facto prohibited in any proceedings against him, I think.

Now, there will probably be an ad, since you can deceive others all you want in America without civil or criminal penalties, but don't act like these are the same thing.

But false equivalences are your forte, aren't they?

I don't think that means what you think it means.
 

Tim-E

Member
Wait a second. I thought Obama was supposed to be helping his donor class? That's what you told me Romney. Now I'm all confused...

I don't know how any one working for this campaign has made it so far in this field that they were able to get a job with a presidential campaign. It's really mind-blowing.
 

Guileless

Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
The House claimed they wanted to investigate holder's involvement during fast & furious.
The documents the obama administration claimed executive privilege over were created after fast and furious was shut down and declassified. They're irrelevant to proving his involvement during the program, and actually would be ex post facto prohibited in any proceedings against him, I think.

The House wants to investigate why a high-ranking Justice Dept. official denied the program's existence to Congress in Feb. 2011 and did not correct that statement until Dec. 2011. The Executive Branch argues that how it responds to an investigation is none of the House's business due to the separation of powers.

Which is a valid argument, but asserting executive privilege to reduce scrutiny of government incompetence (and conceivably lying as well) sounds a lot like what made people so mad at the Bush Administration.
 

Diablos

Member
Pawlenty would be the best pick. So hopefully he'll pick Portman.

Jindal... really? I thought no one but Newt cared about that guy.
 

Tim-E

Member
Pawlenty would be the best pick. So hopefully he'll pick Portman.

Jindal... really? I thought no one but Newt cared about that guy.

I can seriously imagine some republican strategists thinking "if we have a brown person on our ticket, it will broaden our appeal to minorities!"
 

gcubed

Member
Err, isn't that basically fueling the fire?
Confirming there is bad stuff in there?

Who the fuck thought that was a good thing to say?

you can look at anything from the romney camp in the last 2 weeks and not one things was a good thing to say. Its an epicly dysfunctional campaign, and its still July.
 

Dram

Member
John McCain: I Didn’t Pick Romney Because ‘Sarah Palin Was The Better Candidate’

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/07/john-mccain-sarah-palin-romney-vp.php?ref=fpb

Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) defended Mitt Romney from Democratic speculation that he passed on him as a 2008 running mate after reviewing his tax returns, saying Sarah Palin was simply the better choice at the time.

McCain called the tax claims “outrageous” and “disgraceful” in an interview with Politico Tuesday. He said he chose Palin “because we thought that Sarah Palin was the better candidate.”

“Why did we not take [Tim] Pawlenty, why did we not take any of the other 10 other people,” McCain said. “Why didn’t I? Because we had a better candidate, the same way with all the others. … Come on, why? That’s a stupid question.”
 
The word there: "thought" she was the better candidate.

“Why did we not take [Tim] Pawlenty, why did we not take any of the other 10 other people,” McCain said. “Why didn’t I? Because we had a better candidate, the same way with all the others. … Come on, why? That’s a stupid question.”

no thought in that statement.... hmmmm. you provide a quote, I provide a quote. am I doing it right?
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
I think he was just trying to defend the indefensible (the Palin pick). He will defend it forever on end, even though deep down he knows he fucked it up.

Yeah, he pretty much will not admit, even a little bit, that it might not have been the best choice. Even in retrospect.
 
Halperin dropping bombs

But Romney has not collapsed in the polls by any means, and the President remains short of the magical 50% in most surveys. Maybe Romney’s foreign trip, VP selection, and convention will organically turn the page for him in time. But there are a lot of nervous Republicans outside the campaign who don’t think that’s true. And most of those nervous Republicans would be even more nervous if they knew what Chicago was still, patiently, sitting on.
http://thepage.time.com/2012/07/17/status-of-bain-and-romneys-tax-returns/#ixzz20uCrZlvW
 

GhaleonEB

Member
John McCain: I Didn’t Pick Romney Because ‘Sarah Palin Was The Better Candidate’

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/07/john-mccain-sarah-palin-romney-vp.php?ref=fpb

I don't think McCain is helping as much as he thinks he's helping. Pancakes?


Perfect. :lol

I posted that on the last page in an admittedly busy post; coupled with an Obama ad openly asking whether Romney is hiding the fact that he may have paid no taxes at all some years, and I think that could be what the Obama camp is sitting on.
 
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