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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control

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Ok, I agree she did a great job that time. And thank god she actually asked him to explain what "premium support program" even means. He clearly was unprepared and instead shot out a bunch of buzz words (choice...flexibility...flexibility...competition). Under the Ryan plan, the government basically gives you x amount of money to buy insurance, based on your income/needs. That amount does not scale with the rise in health care costs, meaning a senior citizen will be paying more every year, or every time insurance companies decide to jack up rates.

It's basically like controlling your water bill by taking one shower a week.

It's amazing how the GOP talking heads freak the heck out when they can't play with their buzzwords. Mad props to Soledad for causing stress in these fools. I have a feeling the GOP guys will soon pack up shop and not interview with her anymore.
 
Lol. You are naive if you think that people making 30k are paying 13%

In total taxes? Yes they do at times. What does a self-employed person with $30k salary pay with nothing but the standard deduction, including payroll?

And even then there are all sorts of deductions available to the majority of wage earners beyond 50k

The mean income is roughly $50k and the mean tax rate for the middle quintile is over 14%.


I know from personal experience how much someone earning $30k can pay in total taxes and that it can be above what Mittens pays. Not everyone can get the deductions needed to bring it down at all times.


I'm sorry if my statement made it seem like I was saying all $30k earners pay more (most do not) but it does happen. It should also be noted that employees take the brunt of payroll taxes even though it's "split."
 

sangreal

Member
I wish I only paid 13% taxes last year. Unlike Romney who makes a game out of lowering his tax rate, the difference would actually have a real impact on my lifestyle.

(I paid 18%)
 

FyreWulff

Member

Dave Heineman is a turd. He's also denied prenatal car for illegal immigrants. Supposedly pro-life, but only as long as the vagina they're coming out of is a full citizen apparently.

Problem there is Omaha still can't quite outvote the rest of the state. We're getting there though. Meanwhile, he'll continue to turn a blind eye to the Plaza de la Raza because it benefits his farm buddies.
 
It's almost like these people are secret Dem agents. It's pretty stupid for these state governors to further alienate hispanic voters right before a national election. These type of actions bleed across state borders. They're not just pissing off hispanics in Arizona and Nebraska... I'm interested to see what Romney's response is to this.
Meh, it won't matter as much in Nebraska unfortunately.
 
late to the party, but this is pretty great. republicans are really going to regret coining the term obamacare.

I've said this from day 1. All it's going to do is literally remind them just WHO gave the US healthcare reform. 2014 is going to be glorious once the law takes full effect.
 
The creator of The Wire is going to be on the Ed Show? Damn... I guess I'll have tolerate Ed for a hour... *sigh*

Tolerate Ed? Is he that obnoxious to you? After dealing with various right wingers, ignorant persons and politicians who are borderline psychotically insane, Ed doesn't even phase me in the slightest

Edit: Aww hell double post
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
Wow, Soledad is really keeping this up. In addition to arguing again about the 700 billion cut, she's now arguing with a republican that's claiming a "premium support program" is different from a voucher program... Is this really how they're going to do this? They're going to use doublespeak?

Man, I love this woman.
She really tries to wade through all the bullshit to get to the real answers, and it's clear the Republican representatives don't have them either.
 
Just placed holds on five books at my university's library... and only one of them is focused on something other than policy.

The other four have probably been mentioned in this thread or elsewhere (I know the first one has): The Death and Life of the Great American School System, The Death and Life of Great American Cities, The New Jim Crow, and The Price of Inequality.

I might actually have a basic understanding of certain bits of public policy by next month!
 

Loudninja

Member
New Obama ad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=R6MTwBlJk5E

Federal court gives 5 Florida counties extra early voting days
The Republican-controlled Florida legislature last year cut the state's number of early-voting days to 8 from 12. But the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia said the changes won't happen in Collier, Hardee, Hendry, Hillsborough and Monroe counties, which are covered by Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

That section requires election changes to be cleared by federal officials or federal judges. The states covered under Section 5 are mostly in the South and all have a history of discriminating against blacks, American Indians, Asian-Americans, Alaskan Natives or Hispanics.
http://www.startribune.com/nation/166500506.html?refer=y&refer=y&refer=y
 
Ma boy Steve Benen nails it as usual:



http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/08/17/13335003-missing-the-medicare-forest-for-the-trees?lite

I posted an article yesterday that offered a similar argument. This is something Obama and the dems need to hammer relentlessly til November.

I always thought Krauthammer was meant to be taken as a "serious" journalist. Sure he's conservative but that's not a problem as long as you're having an honest debate. So how can he steal an obviously false Romney talking point and act like it's true? How does one have any integrity after that?
 
Why does Romney bring up giving money to charity (and is the Mormon church literally the only charity he donates to?), when that actually also reduces his taxes anyway?
 

Puddles

Banned
Are any of you guys familiar with rationalwiki.org?

I just discovered the site, and it's like tvtropes, but focused on subjects like philosophy and economics. You can easily get sucked in for hours.
 

RDreamer

Member
I wish I only paid 13% taxes last year. Unlike Romney who makes a game out of lowering his tax rate, the difference would actually have a real impact on my lifestyle.

(I paid 18%)

I wish I paid more attention to mine. I'm not entirely sure the percent I paid. For the few years before I got married I believe it was probably like 8% or something. I know it was less than 10%. I was making about $22,000 per year. After marriage I think things went up a bit, but I think we're still near the 10% mark, and probably below. That with us making about $45,000 per year. I get a lot of deductions and stuff for my student loans and for business expenses on the programs and stuff for my job. That's just federal income tax, though.

I think we pay nearly as much in health insurance as we do taxes, and we still try and stay away from the doctor like the plague, since it still costs an arm and a leg to do anything.
 
I always thought Krauthammer was meant to be taken as a "serious" journalist. Sure he's conservative but that's not a problem as long as you're having an honest debate. So how can he steal an obviously false Romney talking point and act like it's true? How does one have any integrity after that?

Krauthammer of not a serious journalist. Hee hasn't been at least since 2008
 

Gruco

Banned
Lol. You are naive if you think that people making 30k are paying 13%

I just calculated it at just over 14%, for single and no kids. Presumably you are not including FICA.

I really don't think there is a good reason to make these kinds of comparisons without FICA, as it obviously matters that you get an automatic tax cut on income over 100k.
 
Why does Romney bring up giving money to charity (and is the Mormon church literally the only charity he donates to?), when that actually also reduces his taxes anyway?

Because some people think that giving money to charity is as good as or better than giving it to the government.

I think that is bullshit especially when you are trying to call giving money to your personal religion to build castles and send missionaries to gather more blind-faith followers as 'charity'. That is the opposite of charity, IMHO.
 

Chichikov

Member
Are any of you guys familiar with rationalwiki.org?
I wasn't.
Alternative medicine is any medical treatment that is not part of conventional evidence-based medicine, such as one would learn in "medical school", "nursing school" or even paramedic training. Much, if not most of the "alternative medicine" world lacks any scientific proof of its effectiveness, and that which does have real effectiveness, tends to be palliative[1] not curative. Alternative medicine includes "traditional medicines" (i.e. "medical" systems developed prior to or outside of "Western Medicine", such as traditional Native American remedies, or traditional Chinese medicine), "folk remedies" (e.g., herbalism, tinctures, and rubs that were common place "treatments" often passed around via urban legend), and an ever growing class of "religious" or "spiritual" treatments that have their sources in Eastern Religions, but are filtered through a pay-as-you-go, for-profit (see "New Age" mindset. The term "alternative medicine" is also a common term for medical marijuana).
Oh my god, its full of scare quotes.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
WTF?

Mitt Romney is too much of a coward to say anything about this.

Mitt won't do anything to appear centrist until its too late. This strategy of theirs is fucked. They are going to focus on a narrow illogical base and alienate swing or moderate voters completely. If I were a 'good' republican I would be shaking my head in disbelief at how absolutely retarded the party strategy has become.

Demographics were going to cause this to happen inevitably and instead of adapting to a changing world they are trying to change the world using a small core of angry old racists and corporate money. Money cannot create enough voters and they have already used up all the democratic value of hate.
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
I just calculated it at just over 14%, for single and no kids. Presumably you are not including FICA.

I really don't think there is a good reason to make these kinds of comparisons without FICA, as it obviously matters that you get an automatic tax cut on income over 100k.
Yeah. Us lucky duckies get to pay bonus taxes on every penny of our income. Job creators only on the first 100k. That rarely gets brought into the conversation.
 
Mitt won't do anything to appear centrist until its too late. This strategy of theirs is fucked. They are going to focus on a narrow illogical base and alienate swing or moderate voters completely. If I were a 'good' republican I would be shaking my head in disbelief at how absolutely retarded the party strategy has become.
Well . . . he may have finally made his first Etch-a-Sketch moment when he did that whiteboard thing whining about Obama cutting $700 Billion from Medicare.

As Benin pointed out, it was pretty funny so see the Romney/Ryan team defending teh evil socialist Medicare from the socialist Obama. Wait . . . wat?
 

watershed

Banned
Serious question: what positives do republicans run on aside from rhetoric? Tax cuts that don't benefit 95% of the American people? Expansions of medicare (Bush's prescription drug program) that are antithetical to Republican ideology and add to the deficit?

I remember President Bush running on the two wars but I can't remember what else.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Serious question: what positives do republicans run on aside from rhetoric? Tax cuts that don't benefit 95% of the American people? Expansions of medicare (Bush's prescription drug program) that are antithetical to Republican ideology and add to the deficit?

I remember President Bush running on the two wars but I can't remember what else.

Basically none anymore. They just do the opposite of what Obama does now. Which has led to hilarious moments of the GOP voting against stuff they wanted.

Party needs a reboot
 
It is from Romney supporting life at conception constitutional amendment during the primaries.
I know but it comes from a 2007 debate. And some of those amendments have exceptions for rape, incest and the life of the mother. He never specifically supported on that banned this stuff. I don't know about Ryan.

He's also said this more recently.
I am pro-life and believe that abortion should be limited to only instances of rape, incest, or to save the life of the mother.

I disagree with his stance but I don't like Obama playing this game with the quote. There is a lot of other scary things in there then saying that they'd not be able to get an abortion if they get raped.
 

Chumly

Member
Not surprising. I consider my governor nothing short of a monster. Anything he can do to screw over Omaha.


wait, are there even any brown people in Nebraska?

About 30% of Omaha is Brown with like half that being Hispanic which is a pretty sizable portion and its growing pretty fast. Unfortunately our rural state population which is like 99% white is full of backwards idiots.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Not surprising. I consider my governor nothing short of a monster. Anything he can do to screw over Omaha.




About 30% of Omaha is Brown with like half that being Hispanic which is a pretty sizable portion and its growing pretty fast. Unfortunately our rural state population which is like 99% white is full of backwards idiots.

I'm starting to lose count of how many of us are from Omaha/Nebraska. Tempted to make Omaha/Lincoln-Age thread sometime.


I agree but I am worried they will have Ryan Reynolds as Romney.

Their gun policy will be replaced by walkie-talkies
 
I know but it comes from a 2007 debate. And some of those amendments have exceptions for rape, incest and the life of the mother. He never specifically supported on that banned this stuff. I don't know about Ryan.

He's also said this more recently.


I disagree with his stance but I don't like Obama playing this game with the quote. There is a lot of other scary things in there then saying that they'd not be able to get an abortion if they get raped.

Obama can't help it if Mitt changes his position every week. In Oct 2011, Romney said he would sign a personhood bill if it came to his desk as Governor.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...rsonhood-bill/2011/11/03/gIQAjYyWkM_blog.html

In an interview this week with Mike Huckabee, Romney said that he would “absolutely”have signed life at conception legislation while he was Massachusetts governor.

While social issues have taken something of a back burner in this economy-focused campaign, the “personhood” bills are being considered in key states, including Florida and Ohio, and could have a galvanizing effect, especially for women voters, who will be crucial to the election.

In Mississippi, the bill faces a vote on Tuesday, yet Gov. Haley Barbour, who is anti-abortion, says that he isn’t sure how he will vote on the measure.
“Some very strongly pro-life people have raised questions about the ambiguity and about the actual consequences — whether there are unforeseen consequences,” Barbour said in a USA Today interview. “They give me some pause.”

This was asked by Huckabee in context of the upcoming Miss. primary and vote on this amendment. The Miss. amendment would outlaw abortions in cases of rape and incest too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/26/u...-ban-nearly-all-abortions.html?pagewanted=all

On top of that, the new ad also ties in Romney with Ryan, who absolutely supports banning all Abortions.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/08/11/paul-ryan-s-extreme-abortion-views.html

Any Republican vice-presidential candidate is going to be broadly anti-abortion, but Ryan goes much further. He believes ending a pregnancy should be illegal even when it results from rape or incest, or endangers a woman’s health. He was a cosponsor of the Sanctity of Human Life Act, a federal bill defining fertilized eggs as human beings, which, if passed, would criminalize some forms of birth control and in vitro fertilization.
 

Chumly

Member
In total taxes? Yes they do at times. What does a self-employed person with $30k salary pay with nothing but the standard deduction, including payroll?



The mean income is roughly $50k and the mean tax rate for the middle quintile is over 14%.


I know from personal experience how much someone earning $30k can pay in total taxes and that it can be above what Mittens pays. Not everyone can get the deductions needed to bring it down at all times.


I'm sorry if my statement made it seem like I was saying all $30k earners pay more (most do not) but it does happen. It should also be noted that employees take the brunt of payroll taxes even though it's "split."

Here is an example from wikipedia but it gives a good idea how people making a small amount can pay more than Romney.

Example of a tax computation
Income tax for year 2011:
Single taxpayer, no children, under 65 and not blind, taking standard deduction;
$40,000 gross income
– $5,800 standard deduction – $3,700 personal exemption = $30,500 taxable income
$8,500 × 10% = $850.00 (taxation of the first income bracket)
$30,500 – $8,500 = $22,000.00 (amount in the second income bracket)
$22,000.00 × 15% = $3,300.00 (taxation of the amount in the second income bracket)
Total income tax is $850.00 + $3,300.00 = $4,150.00 (10.375% effective tax)
Note that in addition to income tax, a wage earner would also have to pay Federal Insurance Contributions Act tax (FICA) (and an equal amount of FICA tax must be paid by the employer):
$40,000 (adjusted gross income)
$40,000 × 4.2%[7] = $1,680 (Social Security portion)
$40,000 × 1.45% = $580 (Medicare portion)
Total FICA tax = $2,260 (5.65% of income)
Total Federal tax of individual = $6,410.00 (16.025% of income)
Further information: Rate schedule (federal income tax)
Keep in mind the SS tax is lower for 2011 so normally that would be higher. I think its pretty crazy that single person making 40k pay more as a percentage of there income than Mitt Romney making 20+ MILLION.


EDIT: One more thing.... Most people also have to pay state income taxes but when your rich like Mitt Romney with your 4+ homes they conveniently file in states with no income taxes. 99% of the population can't do that.


I'm starting to lose count of how many of us are from Omaha/Nebraska. Tempted to make Omaha/Lincoln-Age thread sometime.
Yea there definitely seems to be a number of us.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
I paid double (as a percentage) in income taxes last year than what Romney paid.
 
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