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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control

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T

thatbox

Banned
el retorno de los sapos said:
I know but it comes from a 2007 debate. And some of those amendments have exceptions for rape, incest and the life of the mother. He never specifically supported on that banned this stuff. I don't know about Ryan.

He's also said this more recently.


I disagree with his stance but I don't like Obama playing this game with the quote. There is a lot of other scary things in there then saying that they'd not be able to get an abortion if they get raped.
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Which policy positions from which time periods are the Obama campaign supposed to use? Obama's campaign manager should send another email asking about that: tell us exactly which statements from exactly which days we should take to be current, and send us a weekly update on any changes. If you do that, we promise not to hit you on anything you don't explicitly believe that day!
 
S

speculawyer

Member
watershed said:
Serious question: what positives do republicans run on aside from rhetoric? Tax cuts that don't benefit 95% of the American people? Expansions of medicare (Bush's prescription drug program) that are antithetical to Republican ideology and add to the deficit?

I remember President Bush running on the two wars but I can't remember what else.
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Culture war. Anti gay, anti-abortion, anti-atheist, anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant, etc.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
thatbox said:
Which policy positions from which time periods are the Obama campaign supposed to use? Obama's campaign manager should send another email asking about that: tell us exactly which statements from exactly which days we should take to be current, and send us a weekly update on any changes. If you do that, we promise not to hit you on anything you don't explicitly believe that day!
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Wouldn't work. Romney has literally flip flopped on a position within a single statement.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
Chumly said:
Here is an example from wikipedia but it gives a good idea how people making a small amount can pay more than Romney.


Keep in mind the SS tax is lower for 2011 so normally that would be higher. I think its pretty crazy that single person making 40k pay more as a percentage of there income than Mitt Romney making 20+ MILLION.


EDIT: One more thing.... Most people also have to pay state income taxes but when your rich like Mitt Romney with your 4+ homes they conveniently file in states with no income taxes. 99% of the population can't do that.



Yea there definitely seems to be a number of us.
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And don't forget, economists assume workers pay all the payroll tax, not half, because evidence shows the employers simply lower wages to pay for the tax. Even though they pay half in accounting, the employee pays almost all of it. Or you can think of it as a sole entrepreneur making $40k in your example.

And one other thing, that doesn't include excise taxes (like federal gas tax) which hurts that $40k income earner more than Mittens. Your example is closer to 22% without excise taxes when we include all the payroll (and that's, as you say, lower today than usual from the tax cut).
 
W

watershed

Banned
I'm surprised the Romney campaign actually made a really good move by bringing Ryan's mom into their medicare message. Ryan has campaigned with her in florida. Apparently she lives there and is on medicare. By bringing her on to further their mesaage of being medicare saviors they put a soft face on their message and turn what has been a viscious battle with Obama into a positive moment for themselves. I bet lots of seniors in Florida are responding positively to this, wholesome, family oriented tactic. Also the Obama camp can't directly rebutt this latest move because you can't attack a candidate's mom.

Of course it doesn't mean the Romney camp has won the medicare issue but it will probably help the ticket's likeability numbers in florida. It will be interesting to see what happens next on the medicare front.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
watershed said:
I'm surprised the Romney campaign actually made a really good move by bringing Ryan's mom into their medicare message. Ryan has campaigned with her in florida. Apparently she lives there and is on medicare. By bringing her on to further their mesaage of being medicare saviors they put a soft face on their message and turn what has been a viscious battle with Obama into a positive moment for themselves. I bet lots of seniors in Florida are responding positively to this, wholesome, family oriented tactic. Also the Obama camp can't directly rebutt this latest move because you can't attack a candidate's mom.

Of course it doesn't mean the Romney camp has won the medicare issue but it will probably help the ticket's likeability numbers in florida. It will be interesting to see what happens next on the medicare front.
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I don't think anyone would attack Ryan's mom any way, they'll attack Ryan's position. Bringing out a family member as a stage prop is silly.
 
W

watershed

Banned
Silly to political observers and maybe those who are already weary of the republican ticket. But to a bunch of seniors in florida watching the rally on tv at their retirement home? I'm not so sure. Image politics is powerful stuff and the Romney camp have found a great face to create further distance between their rhetoric and their policy.
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
watershed said:
I'm surprised the Romney campaign actually made a really good move by bringing Ryan's mom into their medicare message. Ryan has campaigned with her in florida. Apparently she lives there and is on medicare. By bringing her on to further their mesaage of being medicare saviors they put a soft face on their message and turn what has been a viscious battle with Obama into a positive moment for themselves. I bet lots of seniors in Florida are responding positively to this, wholesome, family oriented tactic. Also the Obama camp can't directly rebutt this latest move because you can't attack a candidate's mom.

Of course it doesn't mean the Romney camp has won the medicare issue but it will probably help the ticket's likeability numbers in florida. It will be interesting to see what happens next on the medicare front.
Click to expand...


Personally, I wouldn't call politicians use of their family members as political props a wholesome, family oriented tactic
 
J

Jackson50

Member
speculawyer said:
I tend to agree. It is one thing to be an affiliate pollster. But I get a feeling that the polls they release are merely trying to push a narrative of some form or another by raising or lowering expectations. They seem like worthless numbers to look at other than to try to figure out the game they are playing.
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It's difficult to identify the impetus for Rasmussen's performance. It often seems they're cultivating an agenda. But there's no direct evidence of fraudulent behavior. Rather, it could be the more benign, although equally frustrating, use of poor methods. Compared to other pollsters, they are reticent about their methods. But the information available indicates their willingness to occasionally employ poor methods to reduce costs. Granted, the impetus could be an agenda. Nevertheless, until there's evidence of unethical behavior, I don't think it's beneficial to completely disregard their polls. Instead, incorporate them in the proper context.
Jooney said:
Bringing up Reverend Wright will remind people that Obama is a Christian, and not a secret Muslim.
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He claims to be a Christian. But a real Christian wouldn't support the murder of innocent babies.
 
R

ryutaro's mama

Member
quadriplegicjon said:
Personally, I wouldn't call politicians use of their family members as political props a wholesome, family oriented tactic
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Yep.

Also, even if Ryan's mother is on Medicare, are we to assume that she is relying on that 100% for all her needs?

I'm assuming that Ryan is a good son and and is helping to subsidize his mother's income to some degree, if she requires it.

Also, her son is running for VP...what is she gonna do, disagree with him?!?

I hate pandering tactics...like Obama's beer drinking for instance...
 
J

Jackson50

Member
ryutaro's mama said:
Yep.

Also, even if Ryan's mother is on Medicare, are we to assume that she is relying on that 100% for all her needs?

I'm assuming that Ryan is a good son and and is helping to subsidize his mother's income to some degree, if she requires it.

Also, her son is running for VP...what is she gonna do, disagree with him?!?

I hate pandering tactics...like Obama's beer drinking for instance...
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I think Obama genuinely likes beer. Although, every instance he orders a Bud Light makes me wonder.
 
W

worldrunover

Member
cartoon_soldier said:
Obama can't help it if Mitt changes his position every week. In Oct 2011, Romney said he would sign a personhood bill if it came to his desk as Governor.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...rsonhood-bill/2011/11/03/gIQAjYyWkM_blog.html



This was asked by Huckabee in context of the upcoming Miss. primary and vote on this amendment. The Miss. amendment would outlaw abortions in cases of rape and incest too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/26/u...-ban-nearly-all-abortions.html?pagewanted=all

On top of that, the new ad also ties in Romney with Ryan, who absolutely supports banning all Abortions.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/08/11/paul-ryan-s-extreme-abortion-views.html
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The GOP: Where life begins at conception and ends at birth.
 
A

AntoneM

Member
quadriplegicjon said:
He's gotta order an American beer. I think it's in the constitution.
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But but but, Budweiser is not owned by an American company, plus there are like 1700 breweries in the US now.

Or to put it another way. "Obama chooses not to support American small businesses and instead supports foreign owned multinational corporations. Where are the jobs Mr. President?"
 
C

commedieu

Banned
watershed said:
Serious question: what positives do republicans run on aside from rhetoric? Tax cuts that don't benefit 95% of the American people? Expansions of medicare (Bush's prescription drug program) that are antithetical to Republican ideology and add to the deficit?

I remember President Bush running on the two wars but I can't remember what else.
Click to expand...

Honestly, good question. No one can answer it, at this point... Just seems negative.
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
max_cool said:
But but but, Budweiser is not owned by an American company, plus there are like 1700 breweries in the US now.

Or to put it another way. "Obama chooses not to support American small businesses and instead supports foreign owned multinational corporations. Where are the jobs Mr. President?"
Click to expand...


:O

Damn it, why is he so unamerican? :(
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
@upwithchris: Tomorrow's show: Ever see Paul Ryan argue FOR govt spending to help create jobs. We found the video.
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Not that it will matter. Paul Ryan has always been a fraud, Media still hasn't really caught up except for a few people.
 
S

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
Charron said:
An India Pale Ale? Doesn't sound very American....
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bitter-american.jpg
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
Oblivion said:
Oh, Paul Ryan...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=z_CYS35IHeE
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It's even worse than that. Paul Ryan was well aware of when the plant closed considering he had made many many comments about attempting to save it, and when it closed he had a statement about it as well. The guy is a sleazy shit head.

EDIT

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...unds_n_1799515.html?utm_hp_ref=elections-2012

According to a rudimentary LexisNexis search, Ryan made multiple public pleas to GM, including op-eds in his home state newspaper, to keep the plant open. He and fellow Wisconsin lawmakers went to the automobile company's headquarters to present plans to extend the plant's life. When the Bush administration itself called the decision to close the plant evidence that the auto industry was trimming fat and improving its bottom line, Ryan called the news "gut-wrenching."

And as it became clear in early-fall 2008 that GM wouldn't relent, Ryan publicly touted the federal tax money he secured to help displaced workers -- a use of funds that would seem at odds with his limited-government, fiscal conservative image.


EDIT 2

http://paulryan.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=200283

vCyaa.png


even on his own website....
 
E

el retorno

Member
Salvor.Hardin said:
Goosebumps. Easily one of the greatest electioneers in US history.

Of course he'll never top his 'A More Perfect Union' speech. For me, that was the greatest oratorical achievement of any living US politician.
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I just watched this again. wow. it still is amazing

Best speech in my lifetime.
 
J

Jackson50

Member
The NYT published another article punctuating the failure of the Obama Administration to prioritize judicial appointments. And given the prospects of another nominal majority in the Senate, or even outright losing control, I fear Obama's judicial legacy is going to be an unfortunate underachievement.

Obama Lags on Judicial Picks, Limiting His Mark on Courts
By CHARLIE SAVAGE
Published: August 17, 2012

WASHINGTON — President Obama is set to end his term with dozens fewer lower-court appointments than both Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush achieved in their first four years, and probably with less of a lasting ideological imprint on the judiciary than many liberals had hoped for and conservatives had feared.

Mr. Obama’s record stems in part from a decision at the start of his presidency to make judicial nominations a lower political priority, according to documents and interviews with more than a dozen current and former administration officials and with court watchers from across the political spectrum. Senate Republicans also played a role, ratcheting up partisan warfare over judges that has been escalating for the past generation by delaying even uncontroversial picks who would have been quickly approved in the past.

But a good portion of Mr. Obama’s judicial record stems from a deliberate strategy. While Mr. Bush quickly nominated a slate of appeals court judges early in his first year — including several outspoken conservatives — Mr. Obama moved more slowly and sought relatively moderate jurists who he hoped would not provoke culture wars that distracted attention from his ambitious legislative agenda.

“The White House in that first year did not want to nominate candidates who would generate rancorous disputes over social issues that would further polarize the Senate,” said Gregory B. Craig, Mr. Obama’s first White House counsel. “We were looking for mainstream, noncontroversial candidates to nominate.”

Mr. Obama has still put a significant stamp on the judiciary, appointing two Supreme Court justices — the same number as Mr. Clinton and Mr. Bush each did in eight years — and 30 appeals court judges, roughly as many as either did on average per term. But his impact has been uneven. He has made significant changes to some appeals court circuits — which have the final word on tens of thousands of cases a year — while leaving others untouched.

In federal district courts, where trials are held, Mr. Obama has appointed just 125 such judges, compared with 170 at a similar point in Mr. Clinton’s first term and 162 for Mr. Bush.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/18/u...e-judiciary.html?_r=1&ref=us&pagewanted=print
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Pickles the Firecat said:
It was Dijon. You know, the only mustard worth having.

And someone get the president a damn IPA!
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I read an article recently which noted he's given Goose Island beer as a gift to foreign dignitaries. They brew a decent IPA.
 
C

Chumly

Member
Jackson50 said:
The NYT published another article punctuating the failure of the Obama Administration to prioritize judicial appointments. And given the prospects of another nominal majority in the Senate, or even outright losing control, I fear Obama's judicial legacy is going to be an unfortunate underachievement.

I read an article recently which noted he's given Goose Island beer as a gift to foreign dignitaries. They brew a decent IPA.
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Ive worried about this

Senate Republicans also played a role, ratcheting up partisan warfare over judges that has been escalating for the past generation by delaying even uncontroversial picks who would have been quickly approved in the past.
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This pretty much says it all. If the judge isn't a crazy right winger then they are somehow evil socialists.
 
B

Byakuya769

Member
Judge games are nothing new for Republicans. Peter Edelman got fucked over by Orrin Hatch saying he was "too liberal [to be making laws.]" So of course, Clinton being Clinton, chose not to nominate someone clearly qualified to be a federal circuit judge. Meanwhile we have idiots on the circuit who think it's proper to request needless and unrelated briefs due to politics.
 
D

DeathbyVolcano

Banned
Jackson50 said:
The NYT published another article punctuating the failure of the Obama Administration to prioritize judicial appointments. And given the prospects of another nominal majority in the Senate, or even outright losing control, I fear Obama's judicial legacy is going to be an unfortunate underachievement.

I read an article recently which noted he's given Goose Island beer as a gift to foreign dignitaries. They brew a decent IPA.
Click to expand...

Barf. Goose island makes one of the worst Christmas ales I've ever had
 
G

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
Black Mamba said:
In total taxes? Yes they do at times. What does a self-employed person with $30k salary pay with nothing but the standard deduction, including payroll?



The mean income is roughly $50k and the mean tax rate for the middle quintile is over 14%.


I know from personal experience how much someone earning $30k can pay in total taxes and that it can be above what Mittens pays. Not everyone can get the deductions needed to bring it down at all times.


I'm sorry if my statement made it seem like I was saying all $30k earners pay more (most do not) but it does happen. It should also be noted that employees take the brunt of payroll taxes even though it's "split."
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A self employed person pays more than 13% in fucking payroll taxes alone.
 
G

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
BTW, guys, I was at the Mall of America today, and I saw some SuperPAC representative offering people money to appear and speak in an anti-obama commercial ($100, upped to $200 if you were black, latino, or female)
 
G

gcubed

Member
Jackson50 said:
The NYT published another article punctuating the failure of the Obama Administration to prioritize judicial appointments. And given the prospects of another nominal majority in the Senate, or even outright losing control, I fear Obama's judicial legacy is going to be an unfortunate underachievement.

I read an article recently which noted he's given Goose Island beer as a gift to foreign dignitaries. They brew a decent IPA.
Click to expand...

maybe when he isn't scared about re-election he will make shit loads of recess appointments.
 
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