• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control

Status
Not open for further replies.
10/10 on that quiz. Not American.


Either these questions were just very easy, or I've been following poligaf/news enough. I'm guessing the former, because most questions are about the obvious "myths" about the ACA.
 

Chumly

Member
LOL, gave me a chuckle.

396041_4270233518146_921593678_n.jpg
Well we can't cut funding to food stamps since it would be a tax increase on the poor.
 

Kosmo

Banned

You're conflating sending out money with not collecting money - two different things.

And I'm not against food stamps, FYI, just making the point that ALL government handouts create a form of dependency and "expectations" (from individuals getting food stamps to multi-billion dollar companies getting tax breaks). If you don't see that, you're blind.
 
You're conflating sending out money with not collecting money - two different things.

And I'm not against food stamps, FYI, just making the point that ALL government handouts create a form of dependency and "expectations" (from individuals getting food stamps to multi-billion dollar companies getting tax breaks). If you don't see that, you're blind.

I depend on Firefighters, the police, and the military. I also depend on roads, public schools, getting clean water (and air).

dem dependencies and expectations
 
You're conflating sending out money with not collecting money - two different things.

And I'm not against food stamps, FYI, just making the point that ALL government handouts create a form of dependency and "expectations" (from individuals getting food stamps to multi-billion dollar companies getting tax breaks). If you don't see that, you're blind.

It's true. Like deer, poor people are more likely to run in front of my car at night if I feed them apples.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
You're conflating sending out money with not collecting money - two different things.

And I'm not against food stamps, FYI, just making the point that ALL government handouts create a form of dependency and "expectations" (from individuals getting food stamps to multi-billion dollar companies getting tax breaks). If you don't see that, you're blind.

Except people generally try to get off food stamps and become self sufficient, they don't generally "like it". I don't see the same thing happening with corporate tax breaks.
 

gcubed

Member
You're conflating sending out money with not collecting money - two different things.

And I'm not against food stamps, FYI, just making the point that ALL government handouts create a form of dependency and "expectations" (from individuals getting food stamps to multi-billion dollar companies getting tax breaks). If you don't see that, you're blind.

i see welfare as starvation insurance... people at some point paid some money into the insurance fund and may get out more then they put in. If thats a handout, so is government run and subsidized crop insurance.
 

DynamicG

Member
Funny, because most view Robert's decision as a form of activism, rather than ruling on the law as written.

Cool. You found a political comic online! Good job!


You're conflating sending out money with not collecting money - two different things.

And I'm not against food stamps, FYI, just making the point that ALL government handouts create a form of dependency and "expectations" (from individuals getting food stamps to multi-billion dollar companies getting tax breaks). If you don't see that, you're blind.

It's a valid argument that it will create dependency in SOME individuals. Some will abuse this and some will not. At this point I could ask you for a source to show that the majority become dependent, but I imagine you are communicating this from a completely ideological perspective and thus have no tolerance at all for the idea that some will game the system.

Am I right on that?
 
Funny, because most view Robert's decision as a form of activism, rather than ruling on the law as written.

By most do you mean Scalia, Alito, Thomas and Kennedy?

Cause the 5 others didn´t see it that way. The whole point of Roberts decision is that the court shouldn´t be overturning laws left and right if they can be read as constitutional that´s called judicial restraint. Nothing besides the medicaid part changed. Nothing.
 
Funny, because most view Robert's decision as a form of activism, rather than ruling on the law as written.

Well that's a stretch... because the law doesn't use the word tax he shouldn't treat it as a tax. Especially considering these are the same people who don't want to use our modern understanding of terms, but of the understandings as practiced by 250 year old dead guys.

But hey if the obamacare debate has shown me anything, the right is nothing if not entirely cynical when it comes to the arguments they use, and goalposts they move.
 

Kosmo

Banned
i see welfare as starvation insurance... people at some point paid some money into the insurance fund and may get out more then they put in.

You sure about this in all cases? Again, I'm not against food stamps, though I am for greater controls on what they should be allowed to be spent on.

If thats a handout, so is government run and subsidized crop insurance.

Correct.

So Anderson Cooper publicly came out.

Utter shock.
 

eznark

Banned
Except people generally try to get off food stamps and become self sufficient, they don't generally "like it". I don't see the same thing happening with corporate tax breaks.

That might change soon, if the new USDA ad blitz is successful.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/28/food-stamp-programs-promoting-with-parties-games/

I heard one of the ads when I was driving to Illinois last week. It was hilarious. Two old ladies complaining about feeling out of shape and lethargic, one says to the other how healthy she has been since going on food stamps. The USDA is selling em as a weight loss program essentially.

It's cool to be poor, ya'al.
 

Chumly

Member
You're conflating sending out money with not collecting money - two different things.

And I'm not against food stamps, FYI, just making the point that ALL government handouts create a form of dependency and "expectations" (from individuals getting food stamps to multi-billion dollar companies getting tax breaks). If you don't see that, you're blind.
What difference does it make if a corporation gets hand outs through tax loopholes or if someone gets food stamps. They both are expecting something so by your earlie standard it would definitely be a "tax increase" on the poor.
 

Kosmo

Banned
Anybody here have ever went to, or are the product of, or are currently using, public schools?

Yup - and I have no problem with public schools. Now you want to talk about over-reaching teacher's unions, that's another story.

So you guys are depending and expecting something from the government? How dare you.

Actually, for my kids, I pay for it through thousands of dollars in property taxes every year, as my parents did as well.
 
Yeah, they really should have chosen a private school when they were 4. What leeches. Your lame gotcha would only work on parents.
Good thing it was mainly to get Kosmo to respond, then.
Yup - and I have no problem with public schools. Now you want to talk about over-reaching teacher's unions, that's another story.

Actually, for my kids, I pay for it through thousands of dollars in property taxes every year, as my parents did as well.

So being dependent on public schools isn't a bad thing? You seemed to imply on the last page that any sort of dependency was bad.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I went to one of dem hippie "Montessori" schools from kindergarten through fifth grade. Did so much for me as a child.

Also I think Kosmo's argument is getting lost among like three threads of argument: I think his point was that, like food stamps, companies can be dependent on tax breaks, and that removing said breaks can be seen as an increase in taxation in that light? Maybe? Was that what you were saying?
 
U.S. Manufacturing Drops Sharply

U.S. manufacturing contracted unexpectedly in June, the first time in almost three years, reports Bloomberg News:

The Institute for Supply Management’s manufacturing index fell to 49.7, worse than the most-pessimistic forecast in a Bloomberg News survey, from 53.5 in May, the Tempe, Arizona- based group’s report showed today. Figures less than 50 signal contraction. The medianforecast in the Bloomberg survey called for a decline to 52.
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/us-manufacturing-drops-sharply

Game over
 

KingGondo

Banned
I heard one of the ads when I was driving to Illinois last week. It was hilarious. Two old ladies complaining about feeling out of shape and lethargic, one says to the other how healthy she has been since going on food stamps. The USDA is selling em as a weight loss program essentially.

It's cool to be poor, ya'al.
De-stigmatizing SNAP is a perfectly worthwhile goal. If you're working and trying to make it and can't afford to feed your family, there's no shame in accepting government assistance.

And the ad is true if you consider malnutrition to be a concern that can be remedied via food stamps (which it obviously can).

The next step is to change the regs so that SNAP only covers healthy/nutritious foods, but I suspect that'll be difficult considering the influence of lobbyists.
 

Kosmo

Banned
Mixed bag of manufacturing news:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-07-02-11-11-45

US manufacturing shrinks for first time in 3 years

WASHINGTON (AP) -- U.S. manufacturing shrank in June for the first time in nearly three years, a troubling sign as evidence builds that economic growth is slowing.

The Institute for Supply Management, a trade group of purchasing managers, said Monday that its index of manufacturing activity fell to 49.7. That's down from 53.5 in May and the lowest reading since July 2009, one more after the recession officially ended. Readings below 50 indicate contraction.

Production fell to a three-year low and a measure of new orders plummeted by the most in more than a decade, suggesting the weakness will likely persist in the coming months.

Stocks, which had largely been flat when the market opened, fell immediately after the report was released at 10 a.m. The Dow Jones industrial average dropped more than 70 points in morning trading.

"This is not good. Not good at all," said Dan Greenhaus, chief economic strategist at BTIG, an institutional brokerage. While the report "does not mean recession for the broader economy, it is still a terribly weak number."

Manufacturing, which has helped drive growth since the Great Recession ended, has begun to falter as the U.S. job market has fizzled and global growth has weakened.

Americans have pulled back on spending, which has lowered demand for factory-made goods. Europe's economy is likely in recession, which has hurt U.S. exports. And China's manufacturing sector grew in June at its slowest pace in seven months, according to a survey released Sunday by the state-affiliated China Federation of Logistics and Purchasing

The sharp drop in U.S. factory activity overshadowed more positive news on the housing market. U.S. construction spending rose for the second straight month, although spending remains well below healthy levels.

Manufacturing is likely to stay weak for the next few months. The ISM's gauge of new orders, a good measure of future activity, plunged from 60.1 to 47.8. That's the first time it has fallen below 50 since April 2009, when the economy was still in recession.

Fewer new orders reflect growing concerns of businesses. Many are worried about growth slowing from the anemic 1.9 percent annual pace in the January-March quarter. Europe's financial crisis and the prospect that U.S. lawmakers won't extend a package of tax cuts at the end of the year have added to the uncertain outlook.

Bricklin Dwyer, an economist at BNP Paribas, said the increasing uncertainty "has left businesses unwilling to invest."

A gauge of production also fell to its lowest level in more than three years.

U.S. factories are also reporting much less overseas demand, likely because Europe's financial crisis has lowered demand for U.S. exports. A measure of exports dropped to 47.5, its lowest level since April 2009.

A gauge of employment edged down but remained at a healthy level of 56.6. That suggests factories may still be adding jobs. Manufacturers have reported job gains for eight straight months.


Factories have been a key source of jobs and growth since the recession ended almost three years ago. But the sector has shown signs of weakness in recent months.

Manufacturers produced less in May than in April, the Federal Reserve said this month. Automakers cut back on output for the first time in six months. In June, manufacturing activity barely grew in the New York region and contracted sharply in the Philadelphia area, according to surveys by regional Federal Reserve banks. Factory output ticked up in Chicago but only after sliding for three months.

Consumers are less confident in the economy than they have been at any time all year, according to a measure of consumer sentiment released Friday. Worries about slowing job growth are outweighing the benefits of lower gas prices. A separate measure of consumer confidence, issued Tuesday, showed that confidence fell for the fourth straight month.

Overall hiring has slowed sharply this spring, raising concerns about the pace of the recovery. Employers added an average of only 73,000 jobs per month in April and May. That's much lower than the average of 226,000 added in the first three months of this year. The unemployment rate rose in May to 8.2 percent from 8.1 percent, the first increase in a year.

Slower job growth and falling confidence is weighing on consumers' willingness to spend. Americans cut back on purchases of autos and other long-lasting factory goods in May, the government said Friday.

U.S. exports of manufactured goods have also suffered as Europe's financial crisis has cut into demand in that region. And slowing growth in China, India and other emerging markets means that companies in Asia and Latin America are buying fewer American-made cranes, trucks and other heavy equipment.

There have been a few good signs recently.

U.S. factories received more orders for long-lasting manufactured goods in May, the government said last week, while also noting that a key measure of business investment plans rose.

And home sales are up from last year, with prices rising in most cities and homebuilders planning to break ground on more projects in the next 12 months. That should raise demand for manufactured goods such as appliances, building materials and furniture.

Still, the Federal Reserve has cut its forecast for the year. It now expects growth of just 1.9 percent to 2.4 percent for 2012. That's half a percentage point lower than the range it estimated in April. The Fed also says unemployment won't fall much further this year than it has.

© 2012 The Associated Press. All ri
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I heard one of the ads when I was driving to Illinois last week. It was hilarious. Two old ladies complaining about feeling out of shape and lethargic, one says to the other how healthy she has been since going on food stamps. The USDA is selling em as a weight loss program essentially.

It's cool to be poor, ya'al.
That's straight up dishonest, most studies positively correlate food stamps with health problems and obesity.
 

Kosmo

Banned
I went to one of dem hippie "Montessori" schools from kindergarten through fifth grade. Did so much for me as a child.

Also I think Kosmo's argument is getting lost among like three threads of argument: I think his point was that, like food stamps, companies can be dependent on tax breaks, and that removing said breaks can be seen as an increase in taxation in that light? Maybe? Was that what you were saying?

What I am saying is that government handouts, in all forms, create a level of dependence and expectation of what the government should do for you.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
What I am saying is that government handouts, in all forms, create a level of dependence and expectation of what the government should do for you.

And what's wrong with that?
 

eznark

Banned
That's what I've been trying to get at with the public schools angle. He's saying this in such a way that implies that any sort of dependency and expectation is a bad thing.

Kosmo is all for government spending and taxation as long as he feels he will get a net benefit out of it. He pays in, so he rationalizes that it's ok to take out. He isn't "dependent" he is paying for a service.

I think it's kind of a cowardly stance personally.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom