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[ToxicAdam]

I kind of detest the word "healthy" when applied to foods. As long as you are active, you can eat just about anything you want. It's not the food that is making people fatter, it's the lack of activity.

Also, I think the war on drugs (and the social stigmatization of alcohol consumption) has driven people to food more for relief. Instead of self-medicating on a nip of brandy/scotch or a small bit of weed/tobacco people are using comfort food instead. It's a poor substitute, so you need to consume more to get the same effect.

 

[reilo]

I kind of detest the word "healthy" when applied to foods. As long as you are active, you can eat just about anything you want. It's not the food that is making people fatter, it's the lack of activity.

Not necessarily true. You have to be very careful when it comes to your various chemical levels in your blood. You can be super active and eat great, and still have bad cholesterol, for example.

Also, I think the war on drugs (and the social stigmatization of alcohol consumption) has driven people to food more for relief. Instead of self-medicating on a nip of brandy/scotch or a small bit of weed/tobacco people are using comfort food instead. It's a poor substitute, so you need to consume more to get the same effect.

Of course. Moderation is key.

 

[Kosmo]

Low-cal, does not mean healthy. All of those salads have a pretty low nutritional value, meaning that , "yes, you can eat a low calorie meal at McDonalds," but no, you cannot "eat healthy" at McDonalds.

You can get a lot of sodium if you like, however.

Now you're grasping at straws. You CAN eat healthy. Not everything they offer is "healthy."

 

[tranciful]

Actually, you can eat healthy at McDs - just not with a Big Mac, fries, and 40oz non-diet soda. They have salads, grilled chicken, apples, etc.

ಠ_ಠ

 

[The Technomancer]

Now you're grasping at straws. You CAN eat healthy. Not everything they offer is "healthy."

Er, what? How is pointing out that their salads have very little nutritional value grasping at straws?

 

[ToxicAdam]

Not necessarily true. You have to be very careful when it comes to your various chemical levels in your blood. You can be super active and eat great, and still have bad cholesterol, for example.

Very careful? Not really. More like mindful.

 

[tranciful]

Now you're grasping at straws. You CAN eat healthy. Not everything they offer is "healthy."

Southwest Salad with Grilled Chicken and Renee’s Ravin’ Raspberry Vinegrette
400 Calories
15.5g Fat
1000mg Sodium
13g of sugar

The BigMac
540 Calories
29g Fat
1020mg sodium
9g sugar

 

[Byakuya769]

Now you're grasping at straws. You CAN eat healthy. Not everything they offer is "healthy."

Is your argument that you can find something healthy to eat, but you cannot actually have a healthy meal at McDonalds?

 

[Kosmo]

Is your argument that you can find something healthy to eat, but you cannot actually have a healthy meal at McDonalds?

My argument is that you can have a healthy meal at McDonald's, period. I'm not arguing that everything they offer is "healthy".

 

[The Technomancer]

My argument is that you can have a healthy meal at McDonald's, period. I'm not arguing that everything they offer is "healthy".

What would this theoretical meal contain? I assume more then just a single 130 calorie salad.

 

[Byakuya769]

My argument is that you can have a healthy meal at McDonald's, period. I'm not arguing that everything they offer is "healthy".

Ok. Then we're back to those "heathy meals" only being low cal and not having much nutritional value, making your definition of "healthy" pretty dubious.

 

[Jackson50]

Fascinating article on Roberts' decision to uphold most of ACA. Thanks to Forever from the ACA thread in the OT for posting this.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-3460_162-57464549/roberts-switched-views-to-uphold-health-care-law/

Roberts switched views to uphold health care law



In hind sight Kennedy was never a swing vote. And if this article is anything to go by, it look like Roberts did switch because of legacy concerns. There's much more in the article.

Not to wholly discount Roberts' consideration of his legacy, I don't doubt he factored in the ramifications of his decision, but the media seems to be constructing a narrative that's not necessarily veracious. One of the reasons I considered Roberts a potential affirmative vote was his judicial record and respect for precedent. TMC has a series of informative posts on judicial politics. I find the analysis more compelling. Still, the reports on the decision are intriguing. The Court is notoriously opaque, so it's rare to have information on the deliberative process leak. The most surprising aspect of the decision was not Roberts' vote but Kennedy's vehement opposition.

 

[GaimeGuy]

What are your thoughts on the Enumerated Powers Act?

Pointless. All it does is creates bureaucracy for the legislature that has no practical purpose. It's the congressional equivalent of digging holes and filling them up.

The only government body that has any official say on the constitutionality of a law is the Judiciary.

All you need to do is csay something. It doesn't have to be true, and it's not binding.

I could write a piece of legislation that declares war on China, and cite Article II, section 4 ("The President, Vice President, and all civil Officers of the United States shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other High Crimes and Misdemeanors.") as constittuional justification. The legal merit of the law is the exact same as if I cite aritcle 1, section 8. Literally.

You may as well say "Every piece of legislation should end with a smiley ^_^"

 

[Kosmo]

Ok. Then we're back to those "heathy meals" only being low cal and not having much nutritional value, making your definition of "healthy" pretty dubious.

Maybe you need to give me an example of a nutritional meal, then.

What would this theoretical meal contain? I assume more then just a single 130 calorie salad

Premium Southwest Salad with Grilled Chicken
Calories 290
Total Fat 8g 13%
Carbs 28g 9%
Protein 27g
Sodium 650mg 27%

Fruit 'N Yogurt Parfait
Calories 150
Total Fat 2g 3%
Carbohydrates 30g 10%
Protein 4g
Sodium 70mg 3%

1% Low Fat Milk Jug
Calories 100
Total Fat 2.5g 4%
Carbohydrates 12g 4%
Protein 8g
Sodium 125mg 5%

Pointless. All it does is creates bureaucracy for the legislature that has no practical purpose. It's the congressional equivalent of digging holes and filling them up.

Oh, now you're against bureaucracy, LOL

 

[Loudninja]

GOP State Senator Not Conceding After End Of Recount In Wisconsin Recalls

“Unfortunately, rather than clarify the myriad of issues that surfaced on June 5, the recount uncovered even more suspicious activity,” Wanggaard said in a statement Monday. “The list of problems now includes missing pages in poll books, missing signatures, wrong voter numbers, wrong and unverified addresses and most shocking of all, unsealed and sealed and reopened ballot bags -– all without explanation. None of these issues would have been discovered if not for the recount.

“Anyone who argues that this recount was a waste of time, or that we do not need voter ID, either wants to conceal these potential fraudulent activities or hasn’t been paying attention,” he said. “As with my decision to pursue the recount, I will spend the next couple of days reviewing the evidence, speaking with voters, supporters and my family before deciding my next step.”

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/gop-state-senator-not-conceding-after-end-of

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

I kind of detest the word "healthy" when applied to foods. As long as you are active, you can eat just about anything you want. It's not the food that is making people fatter, it's the lack of activity.

No. People having success losing weight are slowly cutting calories (down ~1000) over a few months and not eating processed foods. Exercise is a part of it of course, but not nearly as significant as diet.

 

[The Technomancer]

Oh, now you're against bureaucracy, LOL

People are for bureaucracy when they see it as doing something useful and against it when they see it as a waste. It seems that discretionary criteria is what people argue over.

 

[ToxicAdam]

No. People having success losing weight are slowly cutting calories (down ~1000) over a few months and not eating processed foods. Exercise is a part of it of course, but not nearly as significant as diet.

Why we got fat vegans?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25281188/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition/t/man-sheds-pounds-mcdonalds-diet/

--- /// ---

I don't understand why "processed foods" (another junk term) needs to even be in the equation.

Eat a variety of things and don't consume more calories than you burn. It's that simple.

 

[Gray Man]

Unless you have a medical condition, if you are overweight you either need to exercise enough to meet your food intake, or only eat as much as your body needs for as active as you are.

 

[thekad]

Obama will be doomed again on Friday.

 

[The Technomancer]

Alright, suppose we acknowledge that a McDonalds diet is feasible for a significant portion of the population. I'm not saying it is, but lets explore this hypothetical. Low-income people aren't eating healthy fast food, so clearly the questions that I'm interested in hearing the answers to are
-Why aren't they?
-Should we do anything to change that?
-If so, what should be done?

In simpler terms, this question is "should we actually care about other people's obesity?"

 

[Allard]

Why we got fat vegans?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25281188/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition/t/man-sheds-pounds-mcdonalds-diet/

Because believe it or not DNA is also a part of the equation. I hardly ever exercise, my job has me in front of a computer 24/7 and I am not fat, I have a high metabolism rate due to how much and when I eat. Also salads can have high amounts of calories and sodium too depending on seasoning; dressing is notorious for this. People should be trying to find the diet right for them, its not a one size fits all package.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Low-income people aren't eating healthy fast food

Why do we assume this to be true? It's what I assume also, but I don't know why I make that conclusion.



http://www.sacbee.com/2011/10/28/4012891/uc-davis-study-questions-link.html

Fast food alone cannot be blamed for high obesity rates among people with low incomes, according to a new UC Davis Center for Healthcare Policy and Research study

 

[The Technomancer]

Why do we assume this to be true? It's what I assume also, but I don't know why I make that conclusion.



http://www.sacbee.com/2011/10/28/4012891/uc-davis-study-questions-link.html

I did a simple research paper (just summarizing other people's work) on the subject for a class in Family Sciences a few months ago. Its most pronounced in urban areas where there's a correlation between average ratio between distance to fast food and distance to fresh grocery and risk of coronary heart disease.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Why we got fat vegans?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25281188/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition/t/man-sheds-pounds-mcdonalds-diet/

--- /// ---

I don't understand why "processed foods" (another junk term) needs to even be in the equation.

Eat a variety of things and don't consume more calories than you burn. It's that simple.

It's not even remotely that simple.

And the guy in that MSNBC story- he lowered his calories, stopped eating big macs and a lot of processed foods.

 

[The Technomancer]

Of course. To the extent that we care about other people's health at all, we absolutely should care about obesity and try to reduce it.

So, then the question is how do we actually do that. You can talk all you want about how people "just need to exercise more and eat less," but in practical terms, that clearly doesn't work. We need to find solutions that ignore all the are-fat-people-inherently-bad stuff and actually address the root problems, whatever those might be.

I wouldn't put it quite like

but in practical terms, that clearly doesn't work.

What I would say is that its utterly useless going on about what people "should do" as a justification for writing them off. If they aren't doing it then figure out why, don't just say "people should be smarter".
Of course, if you believe in lucid free will, as I think some people in here might, then people's choices aren't affected by their environment or circumstances at all, so the answer really is just for them to "be smarter"

 

[Allard]

Why do we assume this to be true? It's what I assume also, but I don't know why I make that conclusion.



http://www.sacbee.com/2011/10/28/4012891/uc-davis-study-questions-link.html

I know plenty of low income people that eat fairly healthy, but they aren't eating McDonalds either. I find it interesting that low income = fast food so often when McDonalds meals and a lot of other fast food prices are actually getting very, very expensive. I can make a comparatively simple meal in like 10-15 minutes with scraps I get at a store that is like a third the price of McDonalds meals. In fact I have been going to fast food LESS since I moved because I found it to be too expensive, especially when I can get a comparable and more balanced meal at a regular restaurant these days. Just need to call in ahead of time, grab it and then head back to work.

McDonalds (and all other fast food) is for the class of people that are either less resourceful (Can't cook very much) or just don't have the time to cook or prepare food ahead of time (either by call or making it themselves), and that spectrum exists across all income values, in fact I am inclined to believe it affects the working class more as they have less time to do things themselves.

 

[Snake]

GOP State Senator Not Conceding After End Of Recount In Wisconsin Recalls

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/gop-state-senator-not-conceding-after-end-of

"I think it moved."
-eznark

 

[The Technomancer]

I know plenty of low income people that eat fairly healthy, but they aren't eating McDonalds either. I find it interesting that low income = fast food so often when McDonalds meals and a lot of other fast food prices are actually getting very, very expensive. I can make a comparatively simple meal in like 10-15 minutes with scraps I get at a store that is like a third the price of McDonalds meals. In fact I have been going to fast food LESS since I moved because I found it to be too expensive, especially when I can get a comparable and more balanced meal at a regular restaurant these days. Just need to call in ahead of time, grab it and then head back to work.

McDonalds (and all other fast food) is for the class of people that are either less resourceful (Can't cook very much) or just don't have the time to cook or prepare food ahead of time (either by call or making it themselves), and that spectrum exists across all income values, in fact I am inclined to believe it affects the working class more as they have less time to do things themselves.

One of the patterns I noticed in my, admittedly shallow, research was that it wasn't specifically about income but about access. That its because low income neighborhoods are more likely to have fast food and less likely to have a fresh grocery.

 

[tranciful]

Maybe you need to give me an example of a nutritional meal, then.



Premium Southwest Salad with Grilled Chicken
Calories 290
Total Fat 8g 13%
Carbs 28g 9%
Protein 27g
Sodium 650mg 27%

Fruit 'N Yogurt Parfait
Calories 150
Total Fat 2g 3%
Carbohydrates 30g 10%
Protein 4g
Sodium 70mg 3%

1% Low Fat Milk Jug
Calories 100
Total Fat 2.5g 4%
Carbohydrates 12g 4%
Protein 8g
Sodium 125mg 5%

Wouldn't this cost more than a typical McDonalds meal? Isn't the whole argument that healthy foods cost more so people are more likely to choose the cheap unhealthy foods?

 

[RustyNails]

Obama will be doomed again on Friday.

Gonna be a mixed bag. Manufacturing index is down on its lowest in 3 years. Sub 100k for sure.

 

[eznark]

"I think it moved."
-eznark

This has been going on since the day after the election and I've mentioned it zero times. It's meaningless to the state Republicans. They win it, they lose it, it doesn't matter. They'll take the senate back in November thanks to gerrymandering and this Democratic led senate will never ever have a session. I think Wangaarrd is a dope for doing this.

 

[FLEABttn]

It's not even remotely that simple.

It's pretty much how I dropped 50 pounds while still eating pizza and burgers. Walking and calorie counting.

Eating food that's less shitty certain helps, but you're still going to be fat if you're eating 3000+ calories of salad every day. It's just a ton easier to hit an excessive amount of calories with fast food and soda and liquor and what have you.

 

[eznark]

I think the amount some people think about what they are eating is probably far more detrimental to overall health than what you're actually eating. God damn.

 

[Jackson50]

I kind of detest the word "healthy" when applied to foods. As long as you are active, you can eat just about anything you want. It's not the food that is making people fatter, it's the lack of activity.

Also, I think the war on drugs (and the social stigmatization of alcohol consumption) has driven people to food more for relief. Instead of self-medicating on a nip of brandy/scotch or a small bit of weed/tobacco people are using comfort food instead. It's a poor substitute, so you need to consume more to get the same effect.

It's not the lack of activity, it's the amount of food people consume. That's a simplistically tautological explanation as they are not mutually exclusive. If you increase food consumption, increase physical activity. If you decrease physical activity, decrease food consumption. The principal question is what was the catalyst for the proliferation of obesity. And the most compelling explanation is an explosion in food consumption. Increased physical activity could mitigate the increase in caloric intake, but that would require an unrealistically high level of activity. To reduce the obesity rate, Americans must reduce the amount of food consumed. And, apropos to your subsequent post on processed foods, they are especially pernicious. Not all processed foods are inimical to good health. But they promote obesity. They are calorie-dense, nutritionally-destitute food designed to maximize the food reward response which encourages overindulgence. Certainly, people need to increase physical activity, but they also must eat less and change the composition of their diet.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Oh, now you're against bureaucracy, LOL

I am beginning to think you have the critical thinking skills of a child.

Unlike you, I don't have a blanket belief that all bureaucracy is good, all taxes are bad, or good, or whatever. I believe context matters, that there isn't a one-size fits all approach to everything. So don't throw me that "Oh, now you're against bureaucracy hurr durr" shit. I'd like to think you're not that shallow.

Tell me something: What is the purpose of the enumerated powers act? What would be the ramifications of the enumerated powers act? Congress doesn't have the power of judicial review. Congress doesn't determine what is or isn't constitutional. Starting a circle jerk over how awesome the constitution is and how much a bunch of slaveowners from 240 years would agree with your legislation is fucking pointless.

What is the point? In fact, why the fuck did you even bring up the enumerated powers act in the first place?

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

It's pretty much how I dropped 50 pounds while still eating pizza and burgers. Walking and calorie counting.

Eating food that's less shitty certain helps, but you're still going to be fat if you're eating 3000+ calories of salad every day. It's just a ton easier to hit an excessive amount of calories with fast food and soda and liquor and what have you.

Great, you found the magic solution. Pizza, burgers and walking.

 

[eznark]

Great, you found the magic solution. Pizza, burgers and walking.

I bet it is more effective than sarcasm.

 

[Clevinger]

I kind of detest the word "healthy" when applied to foods. As long as you are active, you can eat just about anything you want. It's not the food that is making people fatter, it's the lack of activity.

Weight isn't the only health factor with food, though, even if it's an important one.

 

[FLEABttn]

I bet it is more effective than sarcasm.

Actually I found it worked out best when combined with sarcasm.

Nobody had a serious conversation with me about calories until I was 24, and I grew up in a very privileged background. It wouldn't surprise me if people in less advantageous circumstances know less than I did.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

I bet it is more effective than sarcasm.

My statement about it not being simple, wasn't that it couldn't be that simple for somebody- it's that there is no simple solution for everyone. You can't just say, 'eat what you want, just walk it off'. That doesn't work for a lot of people. With how serious of a problem it is and how hard it is to lose weight and actually keep it off... it's kind of insulting to just dismiss it like you can just eat anything and exercise it all off.

 

[PantherLotus]

I think you need a new hobby

(Why?)

While you may or may not be correct here, there's nothing so insulting to a creative person than to say their time was wasted, or that they "have too much time on [their] hands."

 

[FLEABttn]

My statement about it not being simple, wasn't that it couldn't be that simple for somebody- it's that there is no simple solution for everyone. You can't just say, 'eat what you want, just walk it off'. That doesn't work for a lot of people. With how serious of a problem it is and how hard it is to lose weight and actually keep it off... it's kind of insulting to just dismiss it like you can just eat anything and exercise it all off.

I'm not saying you can eat anything and just exercise it off, I'm saying you can eat anything within the caloric ceiling your body needs to maintain a healthy weight and put forth even a modicum of effort towards exercise (7000 steps a day is hardly a burden and is probably around 300ish calories if you have a normal BMI).

I'd be surprised if your average overweight person necessarily knew that, or perhaps they did but felt they were too far gone to do anything about it.

 

[Guileless]

You guys, the weight loss thread already has 100 pages of this.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

I assume you already knew that the health care law mandates everyone have health insurance, right? And that under the bill, if you choose to not purchase health insurance, the government will charge you a monetary fine as punishment, and you'll still be without insurance. You already knew this, right?

Nothing has changed. The court just said that's a constitutional thing for congress to do under Article I, Section 8, Clause 1 of the constitution, which says "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises."

It's a prohibitive tax used to discourage individuals from being uninsured.

This fine is legally the same thing as a tax, just like the penalty you pay for a parking ticket.

Because the word "tax" is a boogeyman, the legislation calls it a penalty/fine/fee, but it's conceptually the same thing. Always has been.

Tell your family that without this mandate, people can go uninsured and use the ER for free when medical needs arise. Now, they will be unable to freeload off of others, because they will have to contribute to their usage of emergency services. That's what the fines go towards.

Let me reiterate: If you have health insurance, you're not being taxed.

Why are people still so uninformed about even the basics of the law? It's been 2 years FFS

I think your first assertion reflects poorly on your second; I'd hardly call the tax prohibitive.

 

[GaimeGuy]

While you may or may not be correct here, there's nothing so insulting to a creative person than to say their time was wasted, or that they "have too much time on [their] hands."

.... well now I feel like shit


I wasn't serious

 

[eznark]

I think your first assertion reflects poorly on your second; I'd hardly call the tax prohibitive.

I assume he was looking for punitive.

 

[sc0la]

Maybe you need to give me an example of a nutritional meal, then.
Premium Southwest Salad with Grilled Chicken
Calories 290
Total Fat 8g 13%
Carbs 28g 9%
Protein 27g
Sodium 650mg 27%

Fruit 'N Yogurt Parfait
Calories 150
Total Fat 2g 3%
Carbohydrates 30g 10%
Protein 4g
Sodium 70mg 3%

1% Low Fat Milk Jug
Calories 100
Total Fat 2.5g 4%
Carbohydrates 12g 4%
Protein 8g
Sodium 125mg 5%
Oh, now you're against bureaucracy, LOL

the only reason you have any of those numbers is dirty government regulation on food nutritional information.

 

[Blergmeister]

the only reason you have any of those numbers is dirty government regulation on food nutritional information.

Kosmo is now dependant on the government

 

[PhoenixDark]

I think the amount some people think about what they are eating is probably far more detrimental to overall health than what you're actually eating. God damn.