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[ShironRedshift]

Here's some positive news.

Obama is planning on working with dems to coach the party into regaining control of areas on the local level and guiding new leadership.

http://time.com/4606711/president-obama-democrats-coach/?xid=time_socialflow_twitter

To quote what I was going to say in the closed "should Michelle run for President" thread before it was locked, not sure if this is good news or not.

After all, if there's one thing this election proved, it's that the whole "when they go low, we go high" that Barack and Michelle run on is complete bullshit. Her and Barack are too willing to get cozy with Republicans and much too unwilling to get down in the dirt if need be, letting Republicans just continue to give themselves more and more advantages while Dem's are unwilling to do the same and just let them keep getting away with that. If they hadn't focused on playing so nice with Republicans and betting on people like Comey, in addition to trying to play nice with Russia and treat that like nothing, in addition to betting on people like DWS as DNC Chair, we might not be in the situation we're in, but alas...

But in any case, no. Flat out no. That approach failed and we don't need more of that sheer naivete calling the shots. So I have no faith in anything positive coming out of this. My faith in him and Michelle is long gone. Guy doesn't exactly seem to be the best judge of character.

 

[pigeon]

50 years from now, people will look at that map and say "Idiots." Just as I do now.

Anyway, support for redistributive policy varies by racial resentment. Ergo, you can jettison that along with minority rights on the path to recapturing the flippers I guess.

I like this theory because the underlying message is that it really is just all about race and if you want socialism in america you literally need to fix racism first

I was right all along

 

[plagiarize]

I like this theory because the underlying message is that it really is just all about race and if you want socialism in america you literally need to fix racism first

I was right all along

Well that paints the Sanders supporters in a good light at least, so maybe there's still hope we can all work together.

 

[ugaboga232]

50 years from now, people will look at that map and say "Idiots." Just as I do now.

Anyway, support for redistributive policy varies by racial resentment. Ergo, you can jettison that along with minority rights on the path to recapturing the flippers I guess.

Empathy does shit all either. Tell us what should be done. Go.

Beta Blockers and atypical antipsychotics (trace lithium too) in the water supply along with oxytocin chemtrails will probably be a good start in amping up the empathy to tribalism ratio.

 

[Retromelon]

Melkr is making sense tbh

 

[shinra-bansho]

I mean, it's a theory borne out in data:

But good luck fixing racism...

 

[ShironRedshift]

I like this theory because the underlying message is that it really is just all about race and if you want socialism in america you literally need to fix racism first

I was right all along

I mean... it seems pretty hard to deny. The only nations that come anywhere close to socialism are those that do not have large minority populations to scapegoat all of society's ills onto. And in the situations where such scapegoats appear/are manufactured after a period of time, that's when the boat starts to get rocked a bit and people begin to suddenly get unsure about the beliefs they previously held so dear and if it's really worth it or not.

The only shocking thing to me is just how many people deny it. I mean, I knew it was a problem--this election only surprised me in just the sheer extent of how pervasive it is. Until we deal with racism head-on, there will always be a scapegoat as to why socialist policies aren't worth it, groups that are inherently "undeserving."

Of course, even if the racism problem were to magically be fixed, we would then have to deal with the classism problem of the working class and middle class being at each other's throats and inherently convinced that the other doesn't deserve what they have, but only then. Before then, it's pointless and completely impossible since the former directly feeds into a lot of the false beliefs that lead to classist believes to begin with and only once you deal with the core racism can you begin to start picking at the other stuff.

But yeah, it's very hard for me to disagree in any real sense.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Talking Points ‏@TPM
Gingrich suggests Trump simply pardon family that breaks anti-nepotism law http://bit.ly/2gViKx7

This is 'Nam, this is not bowling. There are no rules.

 

[Crocodile]

I feel this needs to be reposted every few days/weeks. American politics in like one paragraph.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Telling workers they are pretty much useless lol. Peak liberalism.

Talk about "empathy".


And damn, the defamatory and incendiary BS against Bern continues.

Yeah this is a bad strategy.

1) I'm not running for office, so I'm not going to trip over myself for the right words to say here.

2) You either embrace reality and work in the real world, or you tell the public that they can all grow up to be Jedi Knights. You both have picked the latter.

This is spot on (although hopefully there is a way of massaging that message to make it more palatable).

One thing that seems to have been neglected in the conversation about the economy is that isolationism or avoiding automation will result in the US getting out-competed by other countries. I've been reading Guns, Germs, and Steel, and it mentions that societies that avoid technology tend to end up being dominated or replaced by societies that embrace it. If we impose tariffs or whatever to bring back manufacturing jobs, China will continue to take advantage of automation and globalization and eventually dominate us. Given how much of Trump's campaign rhetoric focused on "winning" against China, I'm surprised that the contradiction between that rhetoric and his policies wasn't pointed out more (or maybe it was, and I just didn't notice).

Yeah, it's not a good move to reject tech. The brain drain from other places is a major reason we kept our growth going during the 20th century. We offered open stability in a world of violence and injustice. The world has not changed, and as long as we don't either, we'll keep growing.

 

[JP_]

I mean, it's a theory borne out in data:

But good luck fixing racism...

More: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/05/welfare-utopia/484607/

Their research shows that states with a higher percentage of minorities on the welfare rolls are more likely to be punitive, implementing policies that reduce welfare caseloads, such as strict time limits on TANF; family caps that deny benefits to additional children; and benefits disqualification for small violations, like a child’s poor school performance. By contrast, states with poor populations that are predominately white are more likely to be generous, adopting the federal government’s five-year lifetime limit, waving work requirements if participants have young children, and continuing to give benefits to children even if the parents reach the time limits.

 

[Odrion]

I like this theory because the underlying message is that it really is just all about race and if you want socialism in america you literally need to fix racism first

I was right all along

see, I'm telling you man. bring back the rainbow coalition

 

[Holmes]

lol Washington's electors are such special snowflakes

 

[shinra-bansho]

I mean, on a grand scale, this is also readily apparent from The War on Drugs, morphing into a billion+ dollars in rehabilitation and treatment... when white and/or rural people started getting hooked on prescription opioids.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/there-was-no-wave-of-compassion-when-addicts-were-hooked-on-crack/

 

[Beer Monkey]

Newt just defined how to enable kleptocracy and how much is the media covering this?

 

[Odrion]

alright, so:

stop fucking over the poor and the minorities
get the rich to pay their taxes

that's our criteria then? sounds good

 

[JP_]

Would we be interested in having a conversation about what we would actually try to do to solve racism first?

Freakonomics touched on it a bit after the election: http://freakonomics.com/podcast/trust-me/

Basically, being isolated in all-white suburbs/rural areas tends to create a bubble (duh). Things like college can help break this bubble when they get to interact with people from other backgrounds. One initiative to combat this is being experimented with in the UK -- if I remember correctly, they tie something like student aid to a national civil service program. Young people are intentionally grouped with people from different backgrounds for a few weeks as they work together -- seems to have positive results, though on a small scale.

But the obvious challenge here is republicans will cry about social engineering and how we're trying to indoctrinate kids. That seems like a pretty common barrier to any solution. I'm also a fan of the idea of ditching suburbs and regrowing our city cores, but that's basically poison to these people.

edit: I guess a more likely advancement could be criminal justice reform -- at least, it used to have cross-party support before Trump. Might take generations for it to really have an effect on attitudes on race as the reversal of negative effects of the criminal justice system percolate through, but that might be true for any solution.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Newt just defined how to enable kleptocracy and how much is the media covering this?

I'm sure they'll get on it right after the

SQUIRREL

And now over to John to talk about the big game.

 

[pigeon]

see, I'm telling you man. bring back the rainbow coalition

I read Jamelle Bouie's article on this and I was like, man, we should have just run Jesse Jackson in every election

Yeah we probably would've lost but hey

 

[kess]

I love how 50 years from now people will look at that map and say, "Spotted Eagle?"

Fifty years from now people will be looking at this like we look at Yippies and the assholes who thought it was a funny joke to put Mao on the VP ballot in 1972.

 

[shinra-bansho]

One initiative to combat this is being experimented with in the UK -- if I remember correctly, they tie something like student aid to a national civil service program. Young people are intentionally grouped with people from different backgrounds for a few weeks as they work together -- seems to have positive results, though on a small scale.

So, the US equivalent of this would be like, loan forgiveness for public service through an expanded AmeriCorps...

 

[pigeon]

So, the US equivalent of this would be like, loan forgiveness for public service through an expanded AmeriCorps...

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/brie...to-come-together-and-serve-their-communities/

 

[Pyrokai]

I'm sure they'll get on it right after the

SQUIRREL

And now over to John to talk about the big game.

Sports were a mistake.

 

[Odrion]

So, the US equivalent of this would be like, loan forgiveness for public service through an expanded AmeriCorps...

that... sounds good to me!

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/brie...to-come-together-and-serve-their-communities/

god damn it all

 

[shinra-bansho]

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/brie...to-come-together-and-serve-their-communities/

I was wondering if anybody would catch that.

that... sounds good to me!

god damn it all

 

[kess]

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/brie...to-come-together-and-serve-their-communities/

People were moaning about community service being attached to free college tuition during the primaries on this very forum. Self interest at the expense of community isn't just a Republican thing.

Yeah, free college for everyone would be a great thing, but if people can't get invested in their communities in exchange for their education, it shows just how paper thin most people's convictions are.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Keith Olbermann is very compelling in this vid

https://twitter.com/KeithOlbermann/status/811053911599616000

 

[Wilsongt]

Franklin Graham Jr says it was God who got Trump elected.

God must really fucking hate America.

Reminds me of that image meme I see on Facebook at times:

"And the end shall be brought in by trumpets."
"No, Trump-Pence."
"Right. Trumpets."
"Never mind."

 

[kirblar]

What do you call fighting wealth inequality?

Fighting Wealth Inequality.

That's not populism. Populism is know-nothingism.

 

[kirblar]

This is wild to see visualized:

I respect what the WA electors did w/ the Powell throwaways.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

People were moaning about community service being attached to free college tuition during the primaries on this very forum. Self interest at the expense of community isn't just a Republican thing.

Yeah, free college for everyone would be a great thing, but if people can't get invested in their communities in exchange for their education, it shows just how paper thin most people's convictions are.

It's because people don't realize that money isn't the only privilege in the world. I totally get that millions are stressed about the rising costs of various institutions, which I want to work on, but so many people have ways of helping these places other than taxes.

How about when people take their lives and move into trendy places? That's privilege. You could probably find a similar job to the one you landed in Portland, but in a smaller city in the Midwest. And given the lower populations in these places, your impact is already worth more than in populated states. If half of the yearly migrants to California went to Cheyenne, WY instead, you'd add almost 50% to their population, mostly liberal. Stuff like this flips states. Sure, the EC votes aren't much, but two blue Senators would be, plus a governor's mansion.

The coastal bubble isn't cultural. That's just BS that republicans made up. The coastal bubble is that we keep sorting ourselves into fewer states. We're essentially gerrymandering the country by packing ourselves into highly blue states while a bunch of small population states stay red by low numbers of voters.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

It's because people don't realize that money isn't the only privilege in the world. I totally get that millions are stressed about the rising costs of various institutions, which I want to work on, but so many people have ways of helping these places other than taxes.

How about when people take their lives and move into trendy places? That's privilege. You could probably find a similar job to the one you landed in Portland, but in a smaller city in the Midwest. And given the lower populations in these places, your impact is already worth more than in populated states. If half of the yearly migrants to California went to Cheyenne, WY instead, you'd add almost 50% to their population, mostly liberal. Stuff like this flips states. Sure, the EC votes aren't much, but two blue Senators would be, plus a governor's mansion.

The coastal bubble isn't cultural. That's just BS that republicans made up. The coastal bubble is that we keep sorting ourselves into fewer states. We're essentially gerrymandering the country by packing ourselves into highly blue states while a bunch of small population states stay red by low numbers of voters.

As someone who has lived in a shitty red state my entire life, what motivation do I have to stay here? This state will never flip outside of some mass migration program where Democrats pay people to settle here. There is one city in this state of modest size (the 99th largest in the Union, I believe) and I've wanted to live in a city since I first visited Seattle when I was like 9. It's not just about being trendy, I want my kids to live in a place with more diversity, more options, and more opportunities for them to do what they want and I want those things too! Rural areas are boring as fuck and my school district was super shitty, why should I stay here to add a single vote to a party that will never win elections here?

 

[Diablos]

1) I'm not running for office, so I'm not going to trip over myself for the right words to say here.

2) You either embrace reality and work in the real world, or you tell the public that they can all grow up to be Jedi Knights. You both have picked the latter.

Not necessarily. It's how you say things. You don't tell voters they are worthless and that their jobs are worthless in a world incrasingly driven by globalization and automation. There are better ways you can say that while trying to bridge the gap between it and educating voters about guaranteed minimum income etc.

 

[kirblar]

It's because people don't realize that money isn't the only privilege in the world. I totally get that millions are stressed about the rising costs of various institutions, which I want to work on, but so many people have ways of helping these places other than taxes.

How about when people take their lives and move into trendy places? That's privilege. You could probably find a similar job to the one you landed in Portland, but in a smaller city in the Midwest. And given the lower populations in these places, your impact is already worth more than in populated states. If half of the yearly migrants to California went to Cheyenne, WY instead, you'd add almost 50% to their population, mostly liberal. Stuff like this flips states. Sure, the EC votes aren't much, but two blue Senators would be, plus a governor's mansion.

The coastal bubble isn't cultural. That's just BS that republicans made up. The coastal bubble is that we keep sorting ourselves into fewer states. We're essentially gerrymandering the country by packing ourselves into highly blue states while a bunch of small population states stay red by low numbers of voters.

Younger people are leaving the red states because they're desolate shitholes because the electorate keeps putting crazed GOP despots into power.

 

[plagiarize]

I respect what the WA electors did w/ the Powell throwaways.

I don't follow.

You respect Democratic electors voting for a Republican when their state was won by a large Democratic majority?

Why?

 

[B-Dubs]

Younger people are leaving the red states because they're desolate shitholes because the electorate keeps putting crazed GOP despots into power.

Not only that, but a lot of the opportunity has always been in the big cities.

 

[kirblar]

I don't follow.

You respect Democratic electors voting for a Republican when their state was won by a large Democratic majority?

Why?

A Bernie vote is a "fuck you Clinton" vote.

A Powerll vote is a "If something weird happens, we want a decent GOP choice on the menu" vote.

 

[plagiarize]

A Bernie vote is a "fuck you Clinton" vote.

A Powerll vote is a "If something weird happens, we want a decent GOP choice on the menu" vote.

Every vote that Clinton lost made it less likely that something weird would happen.

 

[StopMakingSense]

A Bernie vote is a "fuck you Clinton" vote.

A Powerll vote is a "If something weird happens, we want a decent GOP choice on the menu" vote.

Yep.

Every vote that Clinton lost made it less likely that something weird would happen.

Nope. If you don't get 270... you don't get 270.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I don't follow.

You respect Democratic electors voting for a Republican when their state was won by a large Democratic majority?

Why?

The idea was that it's more likely to convince republican electors to vote for an alternative republican than to vote for hillary.

 

[StopMakingSense]

The idea was that it's more likely to convince republican electors to vote for an alternative republican than to vote for hillary.

Or if it went to the house, have a decent alternative.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Not necessarily. It's how you say things. You don't tell voters they are worthless and that their jobs are worthless in a world incrasingly driven by globalization and automation. There are better ways you can say that while trying to bridge the gap between it and educating voters about guaranteed minimum income etc.

Well, at a base level honesty around the reality that someone's skills or lack thereof are no longer marketable should be recognised as distinct from saying people are worthless.

 

[kirblar]

Every vote that Clinton lost made it less likely that something weird would happen.

No, Clinton's votes weren't relevant.

Any votes going to a GOP candidate were strategic in case something crazy happened and it went to the house.

Any votes going to Sanders were a middle finger.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

As someone who has lived in a shitty red state my entire life, what motivation do I have to stay here? This state will never flip outside of some mass migration program where Democrats pay people to settle here. There is one city in this state of modest size (the 99th largest in the Union, I believe) and I've wanted to live in a city since I first visited Seattle when I was like 9. It's not just about being trendy, I want my kids to live in a place with more diversity, more options, and more opportunities for them to do what they want and I want those things too! Rural areas are boring as fuck and my school district was super shitty, why should I stay here to add a single vote to a party that will never win elections here?

Younger people are leaving the red states because they're desolate shitholes because the electorate keeps putting crazed GOP despots into power.

I've only ever lived in rural Mississippi so I'm not coming from a lack of empathy. I'd imagine my local politics is much worse than most here.

But a young person's vote in Seattle is quite literally worthless. It's just math (most votes are worthless too, but especially so in this case). It is also worthless here in Mississippi. But those low population states? Less worthless.

I don't fault you for moving to greener pastures. But you can't then be surprised as you lose states. Abolishing the EC only changes one race. It does not fix our governor or Senate problems.

Not necessarily. It's how you say things. You don't tell voters they are worthless and that their jobs are worthless in a world incrasingly driven by globalization and automation. There are better ways you can say that while trying to bridge the gap between it and educating voters about guaranteed minimum income etc.

Did you read my first point there?

 

[kirblar]

I've only ever lived in rural Mississippi so I'm not coming from a lack of empathy. I'd imagine my local politics is much worse than most here.

But a young person's vote in Seattle is quite literally worthless. It's just math (most votes are worthless too, but especially so in this case). It is also worthless here in Mississippi. But those low population states? Less worthless.

I don't fault you for moving to greener pastures. But you can't then be surprised as you lose states. Abolishing the EC only changes one race. It does not fix our governor or Senate problems.

Stop shaming people for bettering their lives. It's not their fault there's a stupid EC created at an earlier era.

 

[plagiarize]

No, Clinton's votes weren't relevant.

Any votes going to a GOP candidate were strategic in case something crazy happened and it went to the house.

Any votes going to Sanders were a middle finger.

Wasn't it already obvious by the time these votes were counted that nothing weird was happening?

What kind of crazy person do you have to be to think that the GOP would pick the Republican three democrats in Washington state put in the mix?

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Stop shaming people for bettering their lives. It's not their fault there's a stupid EC created at an earlier era.

The EC has nothing to do with the Senate or our decreasing state control.

Edit: Or is this really a pick-me-up thing? Like you want me to say these states are actually clamoring for some sweet government expansion and that we can all still live in Vermont but still regain legitimate Senate control and enough state governments to avoid this new Senate from getting blocked?

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

I've only ever lived in rural Mississippi so I'm not coming from a lack of empathy. I'd imagine my local politics is much worse than most here.

But a young person's vote in Seattle is quite literally worthless. It's just math (most votes are worthless too, but especially so in this case). It is also worthless here in Mississippi. But those low population states? Less worthless.

I don't fault you for moving to greener pastures. But you can't then be surprised as you lose states. Abolishing the EC only changes one race. It does not fix our governor or Senate problems.



Did you read my first point there?

My life and my theoretical children's lives are worth far more than a negligible effect on trends that are completely outside my control. The GOP wins state elections here by 30+ points. Our state legislature is less than 20% Democratic and when my local college town even considers something marginally progressive (a small increase to the minimum wage or a plastic bag ban) the state legislature writes laws to prevent that from happening. If my kids are LGBT, they will be faced with a state where the vast majority of the residents do not want them to exist. Why the fuck should I stay in Idaho?

I mean, wasn't everyone cheering about how North Carolina, Georgia, and Arizona are inevitable blue states?

Edit: I mean if Democrats want to flip a small state, it should probably be Montana. It could probably have a Colorado-esque shift in the future. But I'm not sure I should base my life decisions on the negligible potential of trying to reverse trends.

 

[And_Gignac]

I thought you were done tbh

go be done tbh

somewhere else

tbh

Done with primary re litigation.

And you only quote me to bully me tbh. 😩

Now I know how Bernie feels in the Senate surrounded by all those neoliberals constantly bullying him. 😡

 

[kess]

This is the wrong time to screw with process. It makes Democrats looks disorganized, stupid, and weak -- and unlike the primaries, this shit is recorded for posterity.

"Daddy, what did you do when fascism came to America?"

"I voted for Colin Fucking Powell."