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PoliGAF 2017 |OT3| 13 Treasons Why

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K

kirblar

Member
Macho Madness said:
If you read the article, he resigned because there was so much resistance to him working with the freedom caucus. He's not showing remorse for what he did. He thinks he did the right thing and is mad the group didn't back it more.
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He wasn't representing their interests in negotiations. You can't be the "leader" if you're actually opposed to what the group wants.
 
N

nature boy

Member
Cesare Borgia said:
If true this is a huge development...gonna wait and see if anyone else reports this. Last we heard, he was allegedly denied immunity. What changed?
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Yeah I was surprised as everyone else, expecting Flynn to serve time, still a bit sceptical that an immunity deal is being considered.

Maybe the DOJ had a "Queen for a day" session and learned something new?
 
B

BlastProcessing

Member
broz0rs said:
Rep. Tom MacArthur resigns as leader of the Tuesday group.

http://www.politico.com/states/new-...r-resigns-as-co-chair-of-tuesday-group-112255

It's probably a fallout from his involvement with getting AHCA passed.
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Fuck that guy..

Pastry said:
Okay, the last one I thought she might have been trying to avoid public affection because they were in Saudi Arabia but this one lol
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They were in Israel for the last one not Saudi Arabia. Trump only went for Melania's hand because Bibi was holding hands with his wife.
 
A

Allard

Member
Blader said:
He's not turning on Trump at all. Giving Flynn immunity would be disastrous. It'd protect from the consequences he deserves and he wouldn't do anything to bring Trump down. Maybe he has some dirt on other people in the administration, but he and Trump are too close for Flynn to turn on him.
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One thing to note is given his work as a foreign agent for not just 1 but 2 countries he might have far more people tied to him then just Trump. He could get asked for immunity to help bring down a much larger and robust network if he has the information. Its something lost in all this sometimes plea deals/immunity deals don't just involve crimes related to what they are arrested for. Like for instance if he had knowledge of other noteworthy crimes involving Russian, Ukrainian and Turkish crimes inside the USA. Remember he was supposedly caught talking about abducting a person legally in the USA to illegally extradite to Turkey who would likely await life in prison or execution without any evidence.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I've been watching Victorian Slum House on PBS and I can't help but see the similarities between the ruling class in late 1800's England and today's Republicans. It is pretty disgusting.
 
N

numble

Member
Aaron Strife said:
That and get rid of the Electoral College, though that would require a constitutional amendment to implement (not convinced the interstate compact would hold up in courts, not to mention states could withdraw at any time).

Don't know how anyone can argue that the EC is beneficial to our democracy when it alone installed a Russian patsy to the top executive office in the country.
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You won't pass an Amendment to remove the unbalanced process of the Electoral College when the passage of the Amendment requires an unbalanced process in itself. You need 38 States to agree to an Amendment.

Not sure what is wrong with the Interstate Compact. The States are legally allowed to send in anybody they want to act as Electors. The withdrawal of a State from the compact (if it removes the threshold for the compact to come into effect) simply means that all the other states revert to their default current system.
 
S

sangreal

Member
Drewton said:
Obviously not a credible source here but a conservative friend wants me to refute this article about Obama and I just don't have the time to look over all of it right now. Any help would be great.

http://bit.ly/2f3B1s9
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Illegally armed Mexican drug cartels and ISIS militants

Utter nonsense about F&F: http://fortune.com/2012/06/27/the-truth-about-the-fast-and-furious-scandal/

The US recognized the Syrian National Council as the legitimate government of Syria. nothing illegal about arming them

Attempting to shut down gun stores outside of law

Didn't happen. Operation Chokepoint was about payday lenders and other fraud. Gun Sellers, etc. were on the FDIC's list of 'high-risk businesses' but it had nothing to do with operation chokepoint


https://www.law360.com/articles/704346/fdic-inconsequential-to-operation-choke-point-report-says

3) Spent tax dollars to re-settle illegals inside U.S.

http://www.snopes.com/dhs-quietly-vanloads-border/

4) Using executive action to restrict Second Amendment

It is true that Obama wanted to tie gun sales to no fly list. But he tried through congress. Also, I agree that it was bullshit and unconstitutional

Also true that Obama did what he could through EO to restrict gun sales. All legal

5) Illegally targeted conservative groups via IRS

Nothing to do with Obama. Also, the fact that they are being called conservative groups demonstrates that this was the IRS doing their job, because political groups are not eligible for the relevant tax exempt status. Further, they did the same thing to liberal groups

6) Secretly obtained phone records from Associated Press journalists

Yeah, that's true. Messed up, but not illegal

7) Carried out military interventionism in Libya without Congressional approval

Not going to get into a debate about the war powers act

8) Expanded Bush’s unconstitutional government faith-based programs

I'm sorry, is this a complaint? From a far-right source?

9-12 are more or less true

13) Ordered private company to fire 1,000 employees

No, they ruled that Boeing illegally moved jobs in retaliation for union activity.

14) Stole money from retired teachers and police officers

Obama is not a bankruptcy judge

15) Fired Inspector General for discovering that Obama’s friend had embezzled government funds

“The Board’s action was precipitated by a May 20, 2009 Board meeting at which Mr. Walpin was confused, disoriented, unable to answer questions and exhibited other behavior that led the Board to question his capacity to serve.”


I lost interest at that point
 
N

nature boy

Member
Wilsongt said:
Has Hillary confessed to killing Seth Rich yet?
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No, but Kim Dotcom has something to say:

#SETHRICH WAS A HERO

I KNOW THAT SETH RICH WAS INVOLVED IN THE DNC LEAK.
I know this because in late 2014 a person contacted me about helping me to start a branch of the Internet Party in the United States. He called himself Panda. I now know that Panda was Seth Rich.

Panda advised me that he was working on voter analytics tools and other technologies that the Internet Party may find helpful.

I communicated with Panda on a number of topics including corruption and the influence of corporate money in politics.

“He wanted to change that from the inside.”
I was referring to what I knew when I did an interview with Bloomberg in New Zealand in May 2015. In that interview I hinted that Julian Assange and Wikileaks would release information about Hillary Clinton in the upcoming election.

The Rich family has reached out to me to ask that I be sensitive to their loss in my public comments. That request is entirely reasonable.

I have consulted with my lawyers. I accept that my full statement should be provided to the authorities and I am prepared to do that so that there can be a full investigation. My lawyers will speak with the authorities regarding the proper process.

If my evidence is required to be given in the United States I would be prepared to do so if appropriate arrangements are made. I would need a guarantee from Special Counsel Mueller, on behalf of the United States, of safe passage from New Zealand to the United States and back. In the coming days we will be communicating with the appropriate authorities to make the necessary arrangements. In the meantime, I will make no further comment.
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I'm sure he'll appear on Hannity, so...

Brother of Seth Rich has told Hannity to stop this nonsense:

DAhtr6VXUAA437J.jpg:large
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
So Mulvany said he hoped less people get SSDI....

As someone who knows just how much shit some of these people go through to get disability...

Fuck him.
 
I

IggyChooChoo

Member
numble said:
You won't pass an Amendment to remove the unbalanced process of the Electoral College when the passage of the Amendment requires an unbalanced process in itself. You need 38 States to agree to an Amendment.

Not sure what is wrong with the Interstate Compact. The States are legally allowed to send in anybody they want to act as Electors. The withdrawal of a State from the compact (if it removes the threshold for the compact to come into effect) simply means that all the other states revert to their default current system.
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One worry I have about it is the potential for gaming it. Imagine a situation where a few weeks before the election, it's pretty clear that the GOP will lose the popular vote but *would* win under old rules. If a few higher-population red-trifecta states decide to abruptly pull out, suddenly the rug gets pulled out from under everyone, and there are no federal institutions that could stop them; only state courts. Chaos reigns.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
nature boy said:
No, but Kim Dotcom has something to say:



I'm sure he'll appear on Hannity, so...

Brother of Seth Rich has told Hannity to stop this nonsense:

DAhtr6VXUAA437J.jpg:large
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I imagine he'll get a similar response to how O'Reilly treated the wives of 9/11 victims who were protesting the war in Iraq.

"Fuck you, traitor, let me use your dead loved ones to justify my political cause"
 
broz0rs

broz0rs

Member
balladofwindfishes said:
Reminder: After Wednesday, the AHCA likely has to go back through the House again

Town halls and calling congressmen absolutely does work.
Click to expand...

I think I was a bit naive, but the thing I finally realized about politics is that when politicians say something to the extent of how they don't need to be in Congress, but want to be elected to change America is absolute horseshit. They absolutely want to keep their jobs.
 
K

kirblar

Member
@jbendery

Bob Corker says Senate GOP's process for writing a health care bill is "very awkward, at best," b/c no experts or actuaries in the room.
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....and whose fault is that?

Real translation: They're not actually working on a bill.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
kirblar said:
....and whose fault is that?

Real translation: They're not actually working on a bill.
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Alright, we should probably get started on this healthcare bill.

Snack break!

whyamihere said:
I just noticed that Karen Handel has yet to clear 50% in any poll taken since the primary.
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Seemed pretty telling their response to the SUSA poll was that their internals showed it "closer to a tie" but they wouldn't share their numbers.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
kirblar said:
....and whose fault is that?

Real translation: They're not actually working on a bill.
Click to expand...

Still think the plan is to let Trump have his "win" getting it through the House, and then quietly let it die in the Senate by never doing a vote or even working on it.

All the Trump scandals give them decent cover to just never bring it up again.
 
S

studyguy

Member
MacAurthur already got what he wanted, the bill out of the house. What the Tuesday Group does with him is meaningless at this point. If moderates had any real backbone, they wouldn't have let this bill fly.
 
B

Blader

Member
Shit, Ossoff has a 7-point lead over Handel? That's really good!

broz0rs said:
I think I was a bit naive, but the thing I finally realized about politics is that when politicians say something to the extent of how they don't need to be in Congress, but want to be elected to change America is absolute horseshit. They absolutely want to keep their jobs.
Click to expand...

Well, not necessarily. A lot of Dems took tough votes in 2010 on ACA that they were increasingly sure would end their time in Congress (and did) but still voted anyway because they believed in what they were doing. A lot of Republicans are craven, cynical people, but there are plenty there who are true believers and doing what they think is right for the country.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
studyguy said:
MacAurthur already got what he wanted, the bill out of the house. What the Tuesday Group does with him is meaningless at this point. If moderates had any real backbone, they wouldn't have let this bill fly.
Click to expand...

The bill likely needs another vote in the House after the CBO score before it gets sent to the Senate.
 
B

BlastProcessing

Member
studyguy said:
MacAurthur already got what he wanted, the bill out of the house. What the Tuesday Group does with him is meaningless at this point. If moderates had any real backbone, they wouldn't have let this bill fly.
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The CBO is about to dump the bill right back into the House. I hope getting it out of the House for a couple of weeks was worth it!
 
G

GiJoccin

Member
sorry if this is a dumb question, but why would the CBO score dump it back to the house?

would it be showing that it wasn't revenue neutral / couldn't pass by reconciliation?
 
B

Basileus777

Member
GiJoccin said:
sorry if this is a dumb question, but why would the CBO score dump it back to the house?

would it be showing that it wasn't revenue neutral / couldn't pass by reconciliation?
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Essentially. There's a good chance they will need to amend the bill to make it qualified for reconciliation.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Blader said:
Well, not necessarily. A lot of Dems took tough votes in 2010 on ACA that they were increasingly sure would end their time in Congress (and did) but still voted anyway because they believed in what they were doing. A lot of Republicans are craven, cynical people, but there are plenty there who are true believers and doing what they think is right for the country.
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And it turned out it didn't matter, they went down with the ship anyway.
 
T

tuxfool

Banned
Aaron Strife said:
I imagine he'll get a similar response to how O'Reilly treated the wives of 9/11 victims who were protesting the war in Iraq.

"Fuck you, traitor, let me use your dead loved ones to justify my political cause"
Click to expand...

Or they could bullshit their way to not doing the show. Let them trot out their moral superiority and faux empathy.

As disgusting as that would be, it would still be a better outcome.
 
G

GiJoccin

Member
Basileus777 said:
Essentially. There's a good chance they will need to amend the bill to make it qualified for reconciliation.
Click to expand...

but why would that matter if the senate was supposedly tossing the house bill and starting over from scratch?

also did they have to state that it was their intention from the beginning to pass by reconciliation? or does that only matter when it goes up to vote in the senate?
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Don't pin your hopes too high on CBO saying it increases deficits past 10 years. I don't think it's very likely the changes will increase the deficit that much.

I'd more look towards the uninsured numbers being even worse.
 
B

Box of Kittens

Banned
Aaron Strife said:
Don't know how anyone can argue that the EC is beneficial to our democracy when it alone installed a Russian patsy to the top executive office in the country.
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Pretty much every argument in favor of the Electoral College is a rationalization. It doesn't protect against the tyranny of the majority, it doesn't force candidates to run campaigns in the entire nation, it basically doesn't do any of the things people say it does. It's an anachronism that was designed to inflate the voting power of slaveholders. Really I think deep down a lot of the time it gets defended because it's the way we've always done things and we like to treat the Founding Fathers as flawless.
 
J

Joe Shlabotnik

Banned
Blader said:
Well, for one thing, Flynn has taken a steep detour into stupidity over the last two years.

I mean, Flynn's not going to prison, who are we kidding? He can be charged with crimes but Trump will pardon him, and they both know it. And, I'm not completely sure about how immunity deals are arranged, but doesn't he need to be granted immunity before sharing what he knows? Couldn't be obtain immunity and then, free from prosecution, spill the beans that just so happen not to implicate Trump in any way?
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He has to tell them what he can provide before being granted immunity. That would certainly include who he could definitively implicate.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
balladofwindfishes said:
Reminder: After Wednesday, the AHCA likely has to go back through the House again

Town halls and calling congressmen absolutely does work.
Click to expand...

It's possible, but I don't think it's very likely.

GiJoccin said:
but why would that matter if the senate was supposedly tossing the house bill and starting over from scratch?

also did they have to state that it was their intention from the beginning to pass by reconciliation? or does that only matter when it goes up to vote in the senate?
Click to expand...

It still seems to me like they would just let the bill be scrapped by the senate. Only evidence we have of that plan being changed is the house holding onto the bill until after CBO, which is odd, but might not mean that much.

And the house is supposed to pass an explicit reconciliation bill first before the senate, but then the senate can basically amend the entire thing so it's basically a replacement which follows the rules for the 50+1 vote.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Blader said:
Well, for one thing, Flynn has taken a steep detour into stupidity over the last two years.

I mean, Flynn's not going to prison, who are we kidding? He can be charged with crimes but Trump will pardon him, and they both know it. And, I'm not completely sure about how immunity deals are arranged, but doesn't he need to be granted immunity before sharing what he knows? Couldn't be obtain immunity and then, free from prosecution, spill the beans that just so happen not to implicate Trump in any way?
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I'm pretty sure Flynn will go to prison. He's up to eyeballs in lies and illegal stuff he did.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
kirblar said:
....and whose fault is that?

Real translation: They're not actually working on a bill.
Click to expand...

Yep. You know they are waiting because nothing is going to get passed with this Russia investigation picking up steam.
 
S

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
dramatis said:
The "A new foundation" catchphrase isn't really doing it for me in this budget.
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What if he got a good hype man to yell it with reverb and echo and stuff?

"A New Foundation(dation-dation)! 2018! Greatness(ness-mess)! Starving the poor in this motherfuckeeeeeeerrrrrrrrr!"
 
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