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PoliGAF 2017 |OT3| 13 Treasons Why

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Blader

Member
It wasn't always a norm and there's no reason to assume he isn't an abnormallity which future candidates won't be able to replicate. Even then ... I'll take tax return a thousand times before either lasting impact I brought up.

So far he's been completely ineffectual with regards to policy. Let's see what happens here before we claim we won't recover from his term.

It has been a norm for 40 years, and given that Trump won the presidency without disclosing those tax returns, there's not much reason to suggest this won't be the new normal going forward, either. And I don't just mean specifically in terms of tax returns and conflicts of interest, but the general principle of transparency and accountability around presidential candidates that has now been exposed as being actually totally unnecessary to win.

I mean, yeah comparisons to the Civil War are pretty ridiculous, but I'd say potentially doing a irreparable harm to a decades-long tradition designed to give the electorate more insight into just who they're electing into the White House is a pretty big deal. Of course it remains to be seen whether Trump is an outlier in that regard -- I can just as well see Trump leaving office so unpopular that all future candidates will continue disclosing their tax returns just out of interest of putting daylight between themselves and Trump -- but who knows, right. We're only 120 or so days in, hard to judge what the actual permanent damage will be until long after this administration is over.

Backing out of the Paris Climate Deal leads to more greenhouse gases in the air because of greedy bullshit Trump backing manufacturing companies & agri companies not being forced to buy themselves some new scrubbers or what have you to curtail their emissions.

This, in turn, leads to global temperatures rising further, which leads to more 'wackiness'.

Or, those companies can go out of business because their competitors are saving money in adopting renewables and curbing their CO2 emissions.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Obama's Clean Power Plan never actually went into effect, right? It has been tied up in courts all this time? So all of the progress made over the last several years in energy efficiency, renewables, emissions reductions, etc. have been predominantly driven by market forces and city/state initiatives, not mandates from D.C.
 

daedalius

Member
First on CNN: Senators asked Comey to investigate AG Jeff Sessions for possible perjury

A pair of Democratic senators asked then-FBI Director James Comey to investigate Attorney General Jeff Sessions, amid concerns that he may have had an additional meeting with the Russian ambassador the US, Sergey Kislyak, according to letters obtained by CNN Thursday.
Sens. Patrick Leahy and Al Franken -- Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee -- sent the requests to Comey and, later, acting FBI Director Andrew McCabe in three letters dated March 20, April 28 and May 12.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/01/politics/sessions-russian-ambassador-letter/index.html

Oh
 

Zolo

Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Obama's Clean Power Plan never actually went into effect, right? It has been tied up in courts all this time? So all of the progress made over the last several years in energy efficiency, renewables, emissions reductions, etc. have been predominantly driven by market forces and city/state initiatives, not mandates from D.C.

Yeah. I would expect most companies have enough foresight to realize that the US will likely have regulations four years from now anyway as soon as a Dem president gets in office.
 

chadskin

Member
The announcement:

DBP3hWBXsAA_EWH.jpg


Open and closed session.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Obama's Clean Power Plan never actually went into effect, right? It has been tied up in courts all this time? So all of the progress made over the last several years in energy efficiency, renewables, emissions reductions, etc. have been predominantly driven by market forces and city/state initiatives, not mandates from D.C.

Subsidized by credits.
 

jtb

Banned
How many tax returns did Bernie release? I remember he released them pretty late in the cycle. Don't think he paid much political price for it.

The tax returns thing is dead as a "norm", which is fine because we should probably just pass ballot access laws mandating them anyways.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
How many tax returns did Bernie release? I remember he released them pretty late in the cycle. Don't think he paid much political price for it.

The tax returns thing is dead as a "norm", which is fine because we should probably just pass ballot access laws mandating them anyways.

He put out the summary page for one year and that's it.
 
I'm not sure Trump getting away with things can be translated to future candidates/presidents. Trump is somewhat of a unique figure who ran at the right time against the right opponent. A normal candidate would have been sunk by the Access Hollywood tape, for instance. Just as a normal candidate would have been sunk by the Rev Wright tapes, or multiple accusations of sexual assault (Bill Clinton). Honestly I think in hindsight that Trump running against Clinton basically neutralized a lot of those issues, whereas it would have been more damaging if he had been running against someone who wasn't married to a sexual predator. Right or wrong, it seems like many voters didn't care and used that to equate the candidates as equally meh or bad.

Would...Ted Cruz have gotten away with that if he was the nominee? What about Huckabee, Santorum, or any other number of GOP politicians with similar right wing platforms. Of course not, even against Clinton. Trump not being a politician was also an excuse for his behavior to many people.
 
I can agree these outcomes are possible and I can also agree using the civil war as an example is pretty silly. Reagan a bit less silly, but still silly. I mean I've also posted here I kind of view Trump partially as a result of Reagan himself. It's really hard to separate these things completely and say what was a result of what and what was its own real problem.

Still I think despite Trump being dumb and ineffectual in legislation doesn't take away his ability to do some really really long lasting things.

Ohh he definitely could do some damage. Reagan may be a valid comparison when all is said and done. Or ... he could wreck healthcare enough that the nation starts to support Medicare for all. Are we living through a period we won't recover from or a period of accelerationism r just a bump in the road in our never ending political swings?


Laid bare to the international community that the US is an unstable democracy and that any deal you make with them during a good time can die just like that when the crazys take over.

Trump has made it clear that on an international level the US can't fully be relied on or trusted.


This is probably the most lasting thing so far. I don't know why I wasn't thinking of this since I was doing that just the other day but ...

I agree though. good will is hard to earn back
 

tuxfool

Banned
This is interesting:

On the Mood Among My Former Colleagues at the FBI

The basic truth is that while Comey was a controversial figure in the larger political system and among Justice Department officials, he was not a controversial figure at the FBI at all. Nearly everyone loved him. In any other piece, I would caveat this statement as obvious hyperbole and oversimplification of the situation, but the degree of consensus on this point as I have talked to people has been incredible. In the most literal sense of the word, it's almost hard to believe.

My former coworkers who agreed to help me with this post represent a variety of career paths within the FBI. With very few exceptions, all of them are ”rank-and-file" employees. They come from diverse backgrounds and, in their personal lives, represent almost the entirety of the ideological spectrum. If you were to invite them all to a dinner party and bring up politics, I can't guarantee that everyone would make it out alive. There are also a lot of them. I don't want to go into specifics because people have legitimate fears of retaliation for speaking out right now. But consider this post as reflecting input from as many as 20 individuals.
 

tbm24

Member
I'd like to think post Trump, politicians would be held to a higher standard than Trump again, but I don't see how you can watch the GOP defend blatant corruption then turn around and pretend to care again if they're not in power. Trump lowered the bar across the board and it'll take, I believe, a very long time to get back.
 

jtb

Banned
I'm not sure Trump getting away with things can be translated to future candidates/presidents. Trump is somewhat of a unique figure who ran at the right time against the right opponent. A normal candidate would have been sunk by the Access Hollywood tape, for instance. Just as a normal candidate would have been sunk by the Rev Wright tapes, or multiple accusations of sexual assault (Bill Clinton). Honestly I think in hindsight that Trump running against Clinton basically neutralized a lot of those issues, whereas it would have been more damaging if he had been running against someone who wasn't married to a sexual predator. Right or wrong, it seems like many voters didn't care and used that to equate the candidates as equally meh or bad.

Would...Ted Cruz have gotten away with that if he was the nominee? What about Huckabee, Santorum, or any other number of GOP politicians with similar right wing platforms. Of course not, even against Clinton. Trump not being a politician was also an excuse for his behavior to many people.

I completely disagree.

Trump exposed bare how transactional the Republican coalition is. He won the "family values" vote despite being a sexual assaulter - that's not an accident. They just want their policies (abortion restrictions) passed.

The only GOP base he didn't appease in his campaign was the neo-cons, with his quasi-facist isolationism - a base that was largely decimated by the failure of the Iraq War anyways.

That's why Trump is a brilliant politician, because he - on some subconcious level - understands that electoral politics is all about incentives. It's why he managed to pull off two genuinely impressive electoral upsets, and is also why he's so terrible at governing (he has no guiding principles and no goals).
 
The 2018 Oklahoma governor race, particularly the GOP primary and how the candidates respond to current and future Trump dumpster fires, could be interesting to follow over the next year and a half.

Oklahoma City mayor Mick Cornett announced he will run yesterday. He'll never get mistaken for anything other than a Republican, but there are some outlier decisions like voting yes to add sexual orientation and gender identity to the fair housing ordinance. And the mildest of Trump criticisms "I don't think he's very inclusive." Cornett is an opportunist who has largely only cared about how the city is perceived from a business perspective.

Lt. Gov. Todd Lamb is the other big GOP name, and he's already started to distance himself from Mary Fallin by resigning from her cabinet earlier this year. Standard issue, dyed in the wool Republican.

Dem side is hard to guess at. Former AG Drew Edmondson would be my first guess but he's failed in the past. Former state senator and US Senate candidate Connie Johnson is my preferred option as of now. State House Minority Leader Scott Inman is running, as well.
 

RDreamer

Member
I'm not sure Trump getting away with things can be translated to future candidates/presidents. Trump is somewhat of a unique figure who ran at the right time against the right opponent. A normal candidate would have been sunk by the Access Hollywood tape, for instance. Just as a normal candidate would have been sunk by the Rev Wright tapes, or multiple accusations of sexual assault (Bill Clinton). Honestly I think in hindsight that Trump running against Clinton basically neutralized a lot of those issues, whereas it would have been more damaging if he had been running against someone who wasn't married to a sexual predator. Right or wrong, it seems like many voters didn't care and used that to equate the candidates as equally meh or bad.

Would...Ted Cruz have gotten away with that if he was the nominee? What about Huckabee, Santorum, or any other number of GOP politicians with similar right wing platforms. Of course not, even against Clinton. Trump not being a politician was also an excuse for his behavior to many people.

You can't really make that case after Trump went against over a dozen of those candidates in the republican primary and still came out on top.
 
I'm not sure Trump getting away with things can be translated to future candidates/presidents. Trump is somewhat of a unique figure who ran at the right time against the right opponent. A normal candidate would have been sunk by the Access Hollywood tape, for instance. Just as a normal candidate would have been sunk by the Rev Wright tapes, or multiple accusations of sexual assault (Bill Clinton). Honestly I think in hindsight that Trump running against Clinton basically neutralized a lot of those issues, whereas it would have been more damaging if he had been running against someone who wasn't married to a sexual predator. Right or wrong, it seems like many voters didn't care and used that to equate the candidates as equally meh or bad.

Would...Ted Cruz have gotten away with that if he was the nominee? What about Huckabee, Santorum, or any other number of GOP politicians with similar right wing platforms. Of course not, even against Clinton. Trump not being a politician was also an excuse for his behavior to many people.

Ted Cruz wouldn't have gotten away with an overdue parking ticket because fuck Ted Cruz.
 
President Trump’s newest U.S. golf club — a luxury-priced course in New York that opened in 2015 — reported a 12 percent decrease in revenue over the past 12 months, as its banquet business sagged and golfers played fewer rounds.

That drop in business at the Trump Golf Links at Ferry Point in the Bronx was revealed in documents that the Trump Organization filed with the city of New York. The city owns the course, built on an old garbage dump,[b/] but Trump’s business has a 20-year contract to operate it and will pocket nearly all of its revenue.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...f64b4fe2dfc_story.html?utm_term=.8434bc5f99b8

How appropriate.
 
How many tax returns did Bernie release? I remember he released them pretty late in the cycle. Don't think he paid much political price for it.

The tax returns thing is dead as a "norm", which is fine because we should probably just pass ballot access laws mandating them anyways.
I think Massachusetts is working on it. Wonder if we're blue enough that Rs would ignore our ballot entirely at the presidential level to hide things
 

jtb

Banned
I think Massachusetts is working on it. Wonder if we're blue enough that Rs would ignore our ballot entirely at the presidential level to hide things

It could potentially destroy turnout in downballot races, particularly in states like New York and California where there are still plenty of GOP districts. Assuming it passes legal muster, I would imagine there would be plenty of political pressure to just release the damn things.
 

RDreamer

Member
I think Massachusetts is working on it. Wonder if we're blue enough that Rs would ignore our ballot entirely at the presidential level to hide things

I think just one state doing it might not be enough but if even like 5-10 blue states did it I'm not sure they could ignore that. Especially with the clusterfuck the GOP primaries have been, giving up a bunch of states like that could cost someone pretty big.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Oh man, I can only imagine what his rural voters would say if that were publicized.
 
I don't speak Arabic, but 5 minutes fucking around with google translate tells me that this is (shockingly) complete bullshit. Could any actual Arabic speakers weigh in?

it checks out when you add an apostrophe and a space:

I6A2xkC.jpg


but it's nonsense. and you'll all be shocked to know who started this nonsense.

cassandra fairbanks
 

RDreamer

Member
I don't speak Arabic, but 5 minutes fucking around with google translate tells me that this is (shockingly) complete bullshit. Could any actual Arabic speakers weigh in?

The world has a massive amount of Arabic speakers and they're saying it took this long for that to come out? Yeah... bullshit.

Edit: That's still nuts. Kinda hilarious. Totally still a typo.
 
This Arabic thing is done jaw-dropping cultist tier gaslighting/self-delusion.
It could potentially destroy turnout in downballot races, particularly in states like New York and California where there are still plenty of GOP districts. Assuming it passes legal muster, I would imagine there would be plenty of political pressure to just release the damn things.

I think just one state doing it might not be enough but if even like 5-10 blue states did it I'm not sure they could ignore that. Especially with the clusterfuck the GOP primaries have been, giving up a bunch of states like that could cost someone pretty big.

Oh wow I hadn't thought about downballot turnout or primary points. Then yeah CA or NY really is all we need to lock this in
 
Yes, the good ol days of conservatism before the scowling primitives took over, back when Bill Buckley used slurs and threatened violence on national TV.

Conservatism is one giant delusion at best, a cult at worst.

I'm gonna play devils advocate and say the good old days when the conspiracy theorists were just the fringe of the conservatives instead of the majority.

That isn't to say that the democrats weren't still vastly superior for decades now.
 

studyguy

Member
The weird conspiracy that Donald Trump of all people is trying to speak in arabic on twitter.

The thing isn't trending beyond the usual jokes. Covefefe is a bankrupt meme now. The rose garden announcement feels like the biggest unnecessary dick waving moment though.
 
it checks out when you add an apostrophe and a space:

I6A2xkC.jpg


but it's nonsense. and you'll all be shocked to know who started this nonsense.

cassandra fairbanks

That's not what I get at all.

ouasWbE.png


sawf faqaf is what translates into I will stand up and that is no where near covfefe no matter how many apostrophes you add.
 

Armaros

Member
The thing isn't trending beyond the usual jokes. Covefefe is a bankrupt meme now. The rose garden announcement feels like the biggest unnecessary dick waving moment though.

The fact that he needs buddies to announce something that everyone else is against is telling.
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
Awww the poor thing's feefees are hurt.

Edit:
:O Covert-Fefes, it was a cry for help!

Also I would care more about unmasking of incidental collection if there was any evidence at all that it was systemic or unwarranted for our national security. If anything the extremely selective unmasking shows just how concerning the contacts and conversations were to the IC.
 

Blader

Member

I am loving the comments in this thread.

daniel sieradski‏Verified account @selfagency 3m3 minutes ago
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Replying to @DevinNunes
You voted YES on H.R. 3199 (109th), H.R. 6304 (110th), H.R. 5949 (112th), S.990 (112th), & H.R. 514 (112th) — all of which authorized this.

daniel sieradski‏Verified account @selfagency 2m2 minutes ago
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"I'm outraged that these surveillance powers I voted for that every civil liberties organization said would be abused were possibly abused."

Max Kennerly‏Verified account @MaxKennerly 12m12 minutes ago
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Replying to @DevinNunes
I'm interested! Please hold public hearings that discuss each time a Trump associate was unmasked, and the reasons for the unmasking.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
I think they spammed the "suggest an edit" option on google translate.
 
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