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PoliGAF 2017 |OT3| 13 Treasons Why

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Gruco

Banned
Remember when she was on that black radio show and she pulled the hot sauce from her purse and claimed she carries it everywhere with her? It was that kind of stuff, the transparent patronizing crap that makes you say "come on, really?....". She didn't need to do that, she could have done without the obvious manipulative shit, but she couldn't resist. She came off as someone who would say and do anything to win.
The part of your brain which was supposed to engage in rational character analysis clearly failed during the 2016 elections and is continuing to fail. Your point here is such demonstrably absurd nonsense that the fact that you are pushing it should make you reevaluate the assumptions you baked in to how you see Hillary Clinton and interpret her actions.

Ask yourself how you got to the point where you automatically assume the worst of her actions, even when said assumptions are wrong, and why you push nonsense prior to making an effort to understand what you're talking about. Is there anything she could do that you wouldn't interpret as pandering or cynical? Given that you reached the wrong confusion on hot sauce, what gives confidence that you reached the right one on her marriage, or policies, or, anything?

This isn't even necessarily about Hillary per se, but the fact that so many people turned their brains off like this is a huge part of what lead to Trump. I'm not keen on repeating this process in four years, and I'm not writing this post to defend Hillary's honor. I'm seriously suggesting that you take a step back from the minutiae of arguing on the internet or the frustration you may feel with people in this thread, and ask yourself how you got this so wrong.
 

Chococat

Member
She was fighting to be on top, for her ambition, hence the "would join the Illuminati thing". If there were such a thing she would have LOVED to be part of it. Hahaha.

Because she is a women with ambition, she must want to join an evil organization? Do you think the same of ambitious men? It is an oldest sexist attack- women who have power and money must be evil.

The Republicans didn't create that image for her, they just ran with it and pounded it for their own advantage. I always got the distinct feeling that when Bill got caught messing around, she was way more upset about the "getting caught" part then she was about the messing around part. I don't know if that is true, but that is the vibe I get from her.

Yah, imaging you family being torn apart on the national stage by your husband stupidity and Republican vendetta machine, knowing that the blow back would affect her career for the rest of her life for bullshit double standard of - she's his wife, she must be in on it too.

She's the consummate politician. come on... I'm quite sure she's had to face sexism, and had to deal with being dismissed as a women. You can visibly see how these things have affected her character, as you've implied. But the battling she's done was in the pursuit of her own career, she comes off as a cold calculating politician because she very much was a cold calculating politician, everyone in the game is to some degree, but the patronizing way she went about it was cringe inducing.

You acknowledge the sexism she faces, then you give her grief for calculated politician because of sexism? Please tell us, how is a women suppose to act when their are so sexist hurtles to avoid so she does come off as patronizing and cringe inducting? Think of how terrible it has to be to live not as yourself every day, having to craft bland persona to skit as much sexism as possible, while trying to do the jobs you love (public service).

Remember when she was on that black radio show and she pulled the hot sauce from her purse and claimed she carries it everywhere with her? It was that kind of stuff, the transparent patronizing crap that makes you say "come on, really?....". She didn't need to do that, she could have done without the obvious manipulative shit, but she couldn't resist. She came off as someone who would say and do anything to win.

That is not saying shit just to win. That is an appeal to the public demanding she act more "human" instead of being cold and calculating. Even when she does what the personality police demand, she get blow back from it. That is sexism against Hillary in a nutshell. Your not judging her because her policies, you judging her being an ambitious women.

As far as the "Rich white lady syndrome", well, that has a different effect on HER base than it does on the Republican base. She lost some turnout because of that, she was not really that likable. This is not deep insight, it was pretty apparent and rather well known.

News flash, it take money to win on the national stage- all politicians are rich compared to the majority of the nation. Do you have a problem with Obama? Or Biden? or Warren? Or Bernie? All of them richer than the majority of Americans. So tell me, why does Hillary who got her wealth like the majority of the Democrats, by working hard all their lives get such shit for being rich after a lifetime of work? How many houses does Bernie own again? Oh wait, he is a man- it is okay for him have wealth.

Very much so. Warren comes off as genuine because she very much is, you can hear the true desire and purpose in her words. Warren is in so many ways what Hillary is not, and I feel would have CRUSHED Trump.

Warren comes of genuine because she doesn't have decade of the Republican propaganda machine tearing her down, yet. Notice now that she is becoming a threat, the Republican are releasing more smear piece against her and her policies. It won't be long before Pocahontas has a hate base to compare to Hillary.

It's just that Hillary had worked her entire life for that moment, and the DNC felt it was her time, I"m sure there was much pressure on them to feel that way. I empathize with her and feel bad for Hillary in that regard, the sense of despair and loss of her life's work that defeat must have been. To loose to that man none the less, it was devastating. She just was not the right candidate.

No, she was the right candidate the second time around. Her and Obama were equally as good choices. But her against Trump? It just shows that America is not progressive nor intelligent.

On one hand, you have an intelligent women, who served the public all her life, has fought for the average citizen, knows how to get things done on a bipartisan basis and is respected around the world for her abilities.

On the other hand, you have a spoiled rich man, who has a terrible track record running successful business, is a known racists and sexist, has committed numerous sexual assaults, has thousand of legal cases against him, and has been known not to pay workers for services rendered.

America choose Trump. Despite the fact that Hillary was the right candidate at the right time. Take Trump out of the equation and pit her against any the other major Republican Presidential runners of 2017. She was the clear choice for democrats and progressives. She was the clear choice for healthcare, education, for creating new jobs in dying areas, for the opiate crisis, for women's rights, for majority rights (she knows she fucked up with 90's and was working to correct that), and the environment. America itself has always been warhawk. Her and Obama were trying to move away from that, but one cannot erase 50 years of foreign meddling overnight.

Yes, the U.S has a woefully uneducated electorate that is partly filled with half baked dipshits, it's the symptom of our society. But I'm pretty sure Warren would have dispelled much of the mistrust of rich politicians that Hillary could not, and easily beaten Trump with that, which was part of his *gasp* draw.

If you believe Warren could rise above the Republican smear machine AND sexism to win a Presidency, then you need to look back attacks on Obama- which neutralized most of his run. You need to look back at Kerry. And Gore. And even McCain. That is without even touch the ever grown evidence that the Republican have been manipulation the voting machines and wide spread voter suppression.

American's being dipshits is the answer. The Democrats put out competent candidates. But the electorate is too self absorbed to do any critical thinking who would actual be best for them. America is sexist, racist, religious to a fault, anti-intellectual, greedy, and individualist to the detriment of society. None of that is Hillary's fault.

Even the so called progressives don't think beyond their wants. If they could not have Bernie, they did not care of other suffered of others if Trump won. Women rights, minority rights, healthcare, education, environmental protections, public sector jobs, are all going away cause Hillary was not pure progressive enough. Tearing down the DNC by and outsider is going to set back progressive by decades. Bernie, no matter how good his ideas may be, is not a uniter, he is a divider. Warren is a far better candidate than Bernie, because she is closer to Hillary- she get shit done by working with people, not labeling everyone as corrupt.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
The political atmosphere in this country is currently toxic for a woman running for president. Sexism is rampant, and the GOP and their voter base are a bunch of nutjobs who don't feel a woman should have power over a man, and they'll do everything in their power to break them down so it doesn't happen.

Sadly, I think any woman who runs is going to lose in 2020 because of that alone. If I'm Harris, I wait until 2024. Maybe things will have changed a bit by then.

On a different note:

Jason Kander‏Verified account @JasonKander

Jeff Sessions should resign because:
1. He keeps lying about stuff
2. He's incompetent anyway.

This is why I love Jason Kander.
 

Blader

Member
Not always true, especially on the right. Ben Carson wasn't actually running for president. Most of the people in that clown car were on glorified book tours. They sometimes do it to raise their profile for the base.

Now, that's happened less on the left and I don't think Warren seems like the type to do that.

I could've sworn I wrote "if you're running for president, it's because you should want to be president," but I guess not, so let me just asterisk that in.

I know a lot of people run for president for reasons other than actually wanting to be president, but ideally, that should not be the case. In any event, I don't believe it's a good use of time, money or grassroots energy to have Warren run a fake presidential campaign. I don't think she should run, but if she wants to run, it should be because she genuinely wants to be president. Running a fake campaign to shield the real nominee-in-the-wings doesn't do that real nominee any favors.

The political atmosphere in this country is currently toxic for a woman running for president. Sexism is rampant, and the GOP and their voter base are a bunch of nutjobs who don't feel a woman should have power over a man, and they'll do everything in their power to break them down so it doesn't happen.

Sadly, I think any woman who runs is going to lose in 2020 because of that alone. If I'm Harris, I wait until 2024. Maybe things will have changed a bit by then.

On a different note:



This is why I love Jason Kander.

I cracked up at his response to Cruz's awful joke yesterday.

https://twitter.com/JasonKander/status/869981543040602112
 

RDreamer

Member
When people like me say that Clinton has been the victim of a right wing smear campaign for most of her adult life they're not saying that the personality faults some people see aren't there at all. We're saying the personality faults you might see are also the result of that.

Seriously, it baffles me that people could call themselves progressives or even left leaning and completely dismiss the effects of sexism on someone like Hillary Clinton. Yes she might be cold or calculating just like you said, but you don't think that came from the media and American public trying to beat down ambition and fit her into a housewife mold for years and years and years? You don't think that has any effect on how open she is with the public?

And another thing, because I've seen this twice in the last two days or so. Just because some on the left believe some things about her doesn't mean it wasn't a right wing smear campaign. If there's anything we should learn from the 2016 fight it's that the left is insanely perceptible to the same tactics used on the right that made Trump president. Sanders supporters have parroted the same talking points as Trump himself was tweeting. On top of that, you throw shit at someone for decades and create a narrative about them and it's bound to stick all over the political spectrum regardless of what you actually think of Newt Gingrich or not. You're not going to directly connect those things all the time.

I could've sworn I wrote "if you're running for president, it's because you should want to be president," but I guess not, so let me just asterisk that in.

I know a lot of people run for president for reasons other than actually wanting to be president, but ideally, that should not be the case. In any event, I don't believe it's a good use of time, money or grassroots energy to have Warren run a fake presidential campaign. I don't think she should run, but if she wants to run, it should be because she genuinely wants to be president. Running a fake campaign to shield the real nominee-in-the-wings doesn't do that real nominee any favors.

Absolutely. And honestly if she did run this time I think I'd probably be behind her most of anyone else I've heard floated. In 2016 I wanted her to stay in the Senate as I believed that would be the best spot for her to get shit done especially with a Clinton presidency. In 2020, though I'm fine with her going for president. If a dem wins there's a good chance they grab the house or senate too and then she can actually get some shit done. She'd be the perfect Democrat populist retort to Trump.
 

dramatis

Member
Oh man, holy shit..... lol.


I'm forming an opinion after a lifetime of observing her. I don't feel that way about other women in politics. How is it you think it's only the "right" that feels this way? What is that nonsense? She was not favored by much of her own party and un-liked independents. I am not alone in this. Why do you HAVE to assume that it has anything to do with her being a woman and a sexist thing on my part?

It's effing crazy that you can't even fathom that maybe it's because she just puts people off because of her. Do you not like Trump because he's a man? It's crazy that without indication this is where you go...

I talked about how I thought she was hurt privately, by her defeat. I'm am aware that she is human. Wow. I just never observed much intimacy or.... The Clintons seemed like a power couple first, where the Obama's seemed like a power couple second, but a couple first. She had already dealt with Bill's cheating by that point, and I'm sure it's something that hurt her, but by that point she was focused like a laser beam on her career, and knew her husband.

It's crazy that you think this is just an opinion of the right.... Her lack of support on the left is well documented and polled. I've been observing Hillary Clinton for more than 20 years, it's crazy that me forming an opinion that is not yours means I must be sexist. That is freaking insane.

FiveThiryEight.com: Americans’ Distaste For Both Trump And Clinton Is Record-Breaking

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...people_who_hate_hillary_clinton_the_most.html



Washington Post: A record number of Americans now dislike Hillary Clinton
You're doubling down instead of reflecting on whether or not some of your opinions may be sexist.

Presenting the argument that "Well, a lot of leftists don't like her too!" does not cleanse your opinion of sexism. Do you think a lot of leftists weren't racist or sexist during the 80s? Did the narrative of the "Hillary Clinton" character not start in a world where things were quite different from now, and do you honestly think after 20 years of constant public attention that you and the left would be wholly isolated from this influence on your consciousness?

"I don't feel that way about all women, just this one" is also not an argument that indicates your opinion of Hillary is not sexist. I'm quite sure a lot of men said the same thing about suffragists back in the day. They get irritated when a woman isn't acting the way they would like the woman to act. That feeling starts persisting and eventually it becomes a lens through which men view that woman negatively regardless of what she does. To the point where they may fail to see how their opinions may have a sexist root that they will never admit to or address.

You did not talk about how you thought Hillary was hurt privately. These are your words:
The Republicans didn't create that image for her, they just ran with it and pounded it for their own advantage. I always got the distinct feeling that when Bill got caught messing around, she was way more upset about the "getting caught" part then she was about the messing around part. I don't know if that is true, but that is the vibe I get from her.

I never said that I can't fathom that people are possibly "put off" because she's Hillary Clinton. I am saying that your words have betrayed your sexism, even as you try to deny it. The most telling example you put forth isn't hot sauce or unlikeability, it was your assessment of how Hillary felt about her marriage and the Lewinsky scandal. The gall of assuming that she was probably more upset about about Clinton getting caught than about being cheated on. I, too, observed that and can too know exactly what your feelings on marriages are, and know exactly what you think about your personal relationships right now.

I can also observe George Clooney for a lifetime and form a very well informed opinion about exactly what kind of person he is, to the point where I can infer what his motivations and feelings are on all subjects, because I got a 'vibe' about what kind of guy he is. Never mind that I have never actually met him, and also actually have observed very little about him.

Because you clearly observed Hillary for a lifetime and thinks she is pandering to black people because of a snippet about hot sauce on a podcast in 2016, even though there is an interview by the NY Times in 2008 where Hillary said she was into hot sauce since 1992, and an article from AP from 2015 about how Hillary had 100 bottles of hot sauce in the White House back when she was first lady. You were still obviously observing Hillary for a lifetime when the articles that came out at the time of the hot sauce podcast presenting evidence about Hillary and hot sauce, and didn't miss that because you couldn't possibly be already selectively hearing what you wanted to hear.

But yes, you have indeed observed Hillary for a lifetime and formed a very well informed opinion about what kind of person Hillary Clinton is, including that she doesn't care that much about her husband cheating, that she is a pandering fake, and that your opinion is equal to majority opinion, which is of course what the right wing thinks too, except for the part where you aren't like the right wing at all.

Note that you have a more virulent response to me than everyone who basically called you sexist, because I flat out told you that you're ignorant of your own sexism. Basically, being sexist mattered less to you than being told you were ignorant.
 
Personally I think Warren is an ineffective politician and would be a terrible nominee, especially against Trump. She has major financial advantages but I don't believe she'll win the nomination, or come close.

If I could wave a magic wand and create a ticket it would be Sherrod Brown/Kamala Harris. I like Kanter too.
 
Personally I think Warren is an ineffective politician and would be a terrible nominee, especially against Trump. She has major financial advantages but I don't believe she'll win the nomination, or come close.

If I could wave a magic wand and create a ticket it would be Sherrod Brown/Kamala Harris.

Hell yeah. I got all giddy when I saw them make that NBA Finals wager on twitter.
 

Blader

Member
I don't know that Sherrod Brown is all that great a public speaker, but I've only seem him the one time, I think, at last year's DNC. He also has a tough re-election battle next year and may need to commit to not running in 2020 if it helps to keep his Senate seat (similarly, if he loses his race next year, that should all but eliminate him from 2020 consideration).

I am more and more interested in Gillibrand, though.
 

RDreamer

Member
The answer is no. We never fully recovered from Reagen or the Civil War either.

Was about to say something similar, really. It really depends on what you define as "Trump" and what recovery actually means. I'd argue Trump himself is just evidence we haven't actually recovered from Bush yet. All of this stuff started elsewhere and built up and will take time to tear down pieces of it. Trump right now is more of a symptom than an actual cause. He's a symptom of the Republican party response to Obama's election. He's a symptom of the anti-elitism and anti-intellectualism that's been building for a while.
 
I think I have a feeling of having hopelessness but at the same time hope that things will get better after Trump. We will still have problems even with Trump gone but I feel like I'm going crazy with each week.
 

RDreamer

Member
Man the left needs to get its act together. Hillary gets quoted in some fucking headlines and they lose their shit. Now I've got people on Facebook saying we should resist Hillary the same as resisting Trump. We've had months of Trump's bullshit and we are STILL pretending 'both sides are the same.' Like, holy fucking shit.
 
The political atmosphere in this country is currently toxic for a woman running for president. Sexism is rampant, and the GOP and their voter base are a bunch of nutjobs who don't feel a woman should have power over a man, and they'll do everything in their power to break them down so it doesn't happen.

Sadly, I think any woman who runs is going to lose in 2020 because of that alone. If I'm Harris, I wait until 2024. Maybe things will have changed a bit by then.

On a different note:



This is why I love Jason Kander.
Kander was much too good for this sinful earth.
 
Man the left needs to get its act together. Hillary gets quoted in some fucking headlines and they lose their shit. Now I've got people on Facebook saying we should resist Hillary the same as resisting Trump. We've had months of Trump's bullshit and we are STILL pretending 'both sides are the same.' Like, holy fucking shit.

Liberals in general seem to be dumb as rocks when it comes to basic civics education. I know people like to say GOP supporters are dumb and don't know how governance works, but they certainly know when to just shut up and vote for the person they think will help them best - even if they say they hate them.

Liberals could learn from them on how voting, support, and governance works from GOP supporters. We'd rather eat our own, I guess.
 
When it really comes down to it, most people, liberal or conservative, aren't particularly bright.

Our education system is really bad, and it doesn't just effect Republicans.
 

Blader

Member
The civil war is probably the most aweful comparable ever and Reagan gave us an economic plan and a neat slogan as well as the war on drugs.

What has trump done?

Revealed that a lot of the norms and expectations surrounding presidential behavior are actually just traditions that can be ignored with zero repercussions. Now, in the absence of any new law stipulating otherwise, there is no reason any presidential candidate will ever need to disclose their tax returns ever again.
 
Revealed that a lot of the norms and expectations surrounding presidential behavior are actually just traditions that can be ignored with zero repercussions. Now, in the absence of any new law stipulating otherwise, there is no reason any presidential candidate will ever need to disclose their tax returns ever again.

Is it possible for a state to require tax returns to be on the ballot?

If blue states required it to be included in a presidential primary, that would solve that problem pretty fast. Even Republicans need the delegates from California, Washington or New York.
 

tbm24

Member
Man the left needs to get its act together. Hillary gets quoted in some fucking headlines and they lose their shit. Now I've got people on Facebook saying we should resist Hillary the same as resisting Trump. We've had months of Trump's bullshit and we are STILL pretending 'both sides are the same.' Like, holy fucking shit.
Those people have no interest in anything improving. I think they just have fun "resisting" at this stage. I would not be surprised that once Trump is out of office be it forcefully or after the next 3 years, they'll put up a mission accomplished banner and go back to not caring.
 
Revealed that a lot of the norms and expectations surrounding presidential behavior are actually just traditions that can be ignored with zero repercussions. Now, in the absence of any new law stipulating otherwise, there is no reason any presidential candidate will ever need to disclose their tax returns ever again.

It wasn't always a norm and there's no reason to assume he isn't an abnormallity which future candidates won't be able to replicate. Even then ... I'll take tax return a thousand times before either lasting impact I brought up.

So far he's been completely ineffectual with regards to policy. Let's see what happens here before we claim we won't recover from his term.
 

barber

Member

Treated better in Saudi Arabia than in Israel. SAD!
Edit: Thank god he didnt change it otherwise we could probably see a new Gaza invasion when palestine starts protesting again.
And the problem about Trump winning without doing any of the self imposed norms is that why should anyone do them if there is no punishment? Like why should Romney present his tax returns if Trump wasnt punished for doing that and it could be something slightly negative for him? Their base clearly doesnt give a fuck about them and the "moderates" also do not at a big enough level to affect their vote intention as much as saying you dont have blacks that much.
 

Pixieking

Banned
When it really comes down to it, most people, liberal or conservative, aren't particularly bright.

Our education system is really bad, and it doesn't just effect Republicans.

This is it, really... The conversation a few days ago about trying to force people to vote (through humiliating them, or automatic registration or whatever) is just trying to find a way around people's stupidity. Even with early postal voting giving people a ton of time to look up the candidates and their voting histories (if they have them), you're still going to have to deal with stupid ignorant dumbasses who vote "with their gut", or just vote for anyone as long as it's not a woman.
 

RDreamer

Member
Liberals in general seem to be dumb as rocks when it comes to basic civics education. I know people like to say GOP supporters are dumb and don't know how governance works, but they certainly know when to just shut up and vote for the person they think will help them best - even if they say they hate them.

Liberals could learn from them on how voting, support, and governance works from GOP supporters. We'd rather eat our own, I guess.

Yeah definitely. I mean I guess I should have known that considering we don't vote in midterms.

Revealed that a lot of the norms and expectations surrounding presidential behavior are actually just traditions that can be ignored with zero repercussions. Now, in the absence of any new law stipulating otherwise, there is no reason any presidential candidate will ever need to disclose their tax returns ever again.

That's the biggest thing so far. He's revealed that a lot of consequences for things are purely political and political consequences can be mitigated with unwavering party support. Not only do people not have to reveal taxes, but they don't have to separate from business or even pretend not to have a conflict of interest.

I think the biggest things he'll end up inflicting on us, though, is with Sessions and DeVos. Yes he hasn't accomplished a lot in the traditional sense right now, but what he has done and who he's put in place has the potential to do some really bad things for a very long time. Reigniting the war on drugs, dismantling education, pulling out of climate deals and tanking NATO aren't things that are done deals right now, but they're headed in a very shitty direction.
 
Man the left needs to get its act together. Hillary gets quoted in some fucking headlines and they lose their shit. Now I've got people on Facebook saying we should resist Hillary the same as resisting Trump. We've had months of Trump's bullshit and we are STILL pretending 'both sides are the same.' Like, holy fucking shit.

Resist her from doing what exactly? Talking?
 

RDreamer

Member
Resist her from doing what exactly? Talking?

I don't fucking know. I was specifically posting after a guy was hyperventilating that she might try and run again, heaven forbid!

But yeah she needs to shut up and go away, she's dividing people and not bringing them together, she needs to be resisted just like Trump. This is all stuff coming from the 'left' and it's ridiculous.

It wasn't always a norm and there's no reason to assume he isn't an abnormallity which future candidates won't be able to replicate. Even then ... I'll take tax return a thousand times before either lasting impact I brought up.

So far he's been completely ineffectual with regards to policy. Let's see what happens here before we claim we won't recover from his term.

You don't see reigniting the war on drugs, tanking NATO, pulling out of the Paris climate deal, and the DOJ minimizing civil rights efforts as kinda big things?
 

kirblar

Member
Man the left needs to get its act together. Hillary gets quoted in some fucking headlines and they lose their shit. Now I've got people on Facebook saying we should resist Hillary the same as resisting Trump. We've had months of Trump's bullshit and we are STILL pretending 'both sides are the same.' Like, holy fucking shit.
They won't and we'll do it without them, just like we always have had to.
 
Hillary's response to Trump bashing her again:
Hillary Clinton
Hillary Clinton‏ @HillaryClinton
People in covfefe houses shouldn't throw covfefe.

Legit I wonder what her approval rating would be if she just ran full tilt as her dry humor self the entire time.

She's actually got a really good sense of wit, it's just very dry and sarcastic...

Actually what I wonder more is how that all would have been received if she were a man
 

royalan

Member
It wasn't always a norm and there's no reason to assume he isn't an abnormallity which future candidates won't be able to replicate. Even then ... I'll take tax return a thousand times before either lasting impact I brought up.

So far he's been completely ineffectual with regards to policy. Let's see what happens here before we claim we won't recover from his term.

It doesn't really matter if Trump ultimately ends up being ineffectual. When this is all over there needs to be consequences for all those involved, and harsh ones. Because otherwise Trump and Republicans have just laid out the blueprint for how our government can be hijacked by a wannabe fascist dictator. Just imagine the horror if Trump were competent in achieving his goals.

The thing that we as a country need to take away from this administration is that our Democracy isn't as strong as wr all thought. Far from it.
 
Guardian: Nigel Farage is 'person of interest' in FBI investigation into Trump and Russia

Last modified on Thursday 1 June 2017 08.04 EDT

Nigel Farage is a “person of interest” in the US counter-intelligence investigation that is looking into possible collusion between the Kremlin and Donald Trump’s presidential campaign, the Guardian has been told.

Sources with knowledge of the investigation said the former Ukip leader had raised the interest of FBI investigators because of his relationships with individuals connected to both the Trump campaign and Julian Assange, the WikiLeaks founder whom Farage visited in March.

iP42wHz.gif
 

Pixieking

Banned
Legit I wonder what her approval rating would be if she just ran full tilt as her dry humor self the entire time.

She's actually got a really good sense of wit, it's just very dry and sarcastic...

Actually what I wonder more is how that all would have been received if she were a man

As a woman, it'd be a double-edged sword - you'd get lots of people loving her wit and her "take no shit but do it with humour" style, as well as "true" progressives and feminists on her side. But you'd also see all the MRA spouting dicks and "don't rock the boat" women and minorities who would see the sarcasm as nagging, and the wit as a woman not knowing her place being disrespectful to a man.

As a man, those negatives above wouldn't occur, and she'd still get all the progressives, feminists, and people who love her humour.
 
Bradd Jaffy‏Verified account
@BraddJaffy

Putin admits ”patriotically minded" private Russian hackers could have been involved in U.S. election interference
AHAHA

Gotta admit, oppoium has been weak this past couple of days. Bobby Three Sticks better be up to something.
 
You don't see reigniting the war on drugs, tanking NATO, pulling out of the Paris climate deal, and the DOJ minimizing civil rights efforts as kinda big things?

The war on drugs was so damaging during the 80s because the majority of society agreed with it. It persisted on a federal level into the 90's and was further exacerbated by tough on crime shit. So probably not? If we get 8 years trump and sessions, followed by eight more years of conservative bullshit, coupled with a societal shift away from marijuana legalization... I mean a red state like Ohio currently treats addiction more humanely than blue states.

Tanking NATO? I mean maybe if WW3 break out with Russia. If not the EU has basically taken the stance that the US will get over its momentary lapse and come back to the fold.

The Paris climate deal isn't stopping green tech.

The DOJ being shitty with civil rights might.

I'm not saying we won't have to recover, I'm contesting the claim that we will never recover from his term and contesting using the civil war and Reagan as comparibles.

[
 

RDreamer

Member
The war on drugs was so damaging during the 80s because the majority of society agreed with it. It persisted on a federal level into the 90's and was further exacerbated by tough on crime shit. So probably not? If we get 8 years trump and sessions, followed by eight more years of conservative bullshit, coupled with a societal shift away from marijuana legalization... I mean a red state like Ohio currently treats addiction more humanely than blue states.

Tanking NATO? I mean maybe if WW3 break out with Russia. If not the EU has basically taken the stance that the US will get over its momentary lapse and come back to the fold.

The Paris climate deal isn't stopping green tech.

The DOJ being shitty with civil rights might.

I'm not saying we won't have to recover, I'm contesting the claim that we will never recover from his term and contesting using the civil war and Reagan as comparibles.

[

I can agree these outcomes are possible and I can also agree using the civil war as an example is pretty silly. Reagan a bit less silly, but still silly. I mean I've also posted here I kind of view Trump partially as a result of Reagan himself. It's really hard to separate these things completely and say what was a result of what and what was its own real problem.

Still I think despite Trump being dumb and ineffectual in legislation doesn't take away his ability to do some really really long lasting things.
 
The civil war is probably the most aweful comparable ever and Reagan gave us an economic plan wrapped in a neat slogan as well as the war on drugs.

What has trump done?

Laid bare to the international community that the US is an unstable democracy and that any deal you make with them during a good time can die just like that when the crazys take over.

Trump has made it clear that on an international level the US can't fully be relied on or trusted.
 
Is there any way to read this except as Putin deliberately fucking with Trump?

Bradd Jaffy‏Verified account
@BraddJaffy
Putin admits “patriotically minded” private Russian hackers could have been involved in U.S. election interference
 
As a woman, it'd be a double-edged sword - you'd get lots of people loving her wit and her "take no shit but do it with humour" style, as well as "true" progressives and feminists on her side. But you'd also see all the MRA spouting dicks and "don't rock the boat" women and minorities who would see the sarcasm as nagging, and the wit as a woman not knowing her place being disrespectful to a man.

As a man, those negatives above wouldn't occur, and she'd still get all the progressives, feminists, and people who love her humour.

It's sad really, her dry wit is one of the reasons why I like her as much as I do. Mostly because I'm the same way
 

AndyD

aka andydumi
Is there any way to read this except as Putin deliberately fucking with Trump?

Bradd Jaffy‏Verified account
@BraddJaffy
Putin admits ”patriotically minded" private Russian hackers could have been involved in U.S. election interference

It's the same pattern as the Crimea invasion. First deny, then say it was independent Russian citizens being patriotic, then admit state involved and directed, then brag about it. We're at stage 2.
 
Backing out of the Paris Climate Deal leads to more greenhouse gases in the air because of greedy bullshit Trump backing manufacturing companies & agri companies not being forced to buy themselves some new scrubbers or what have you to curtail their emissions.

This, in turn, leads to global temperatures rising further, which leads to more 'wackiness'.
 
Is there any way to read this except as Putin deliberately fucking with Trump?

Bradd Jaffy‏Verified account
@BraddJaffy
Putin admits “patriotically minded” private Russian hackers could have been involved in U.S. election interference

"Why we gotta worry about Russian interference? Isn't it good that they are giving us this information about our politics?"
 

Ogodei

Member
Yes, the good ol days of conservatism before the scowling primitives took over, back when Bill Buckley used slurs and threatened violence on national TV.

Conservatism is one giant delusion at best, a cult at worst.

But it's funny to see the contempt that the well-heeled think-tank class has for the working-class racists who are the only reason their opinion matters (because they're the only reason GOP has a shot at power in most places).
 
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