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[JzeroT1437]

I sure hope that everyone takes Joe the Plumber's ability to make over $250,000 and still not pay more in taxes as their highest priority when entering the voting booth 3 weeks from now. Joe is more important than everyone else's economic stability and global appeal. It's true.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

I was sick of hearing about this guy before the debate was over and hearing him all over the news this morning has turned that sickness into frustration. This guy is not the face of the middle-class. He is not the average joe. If he can afford a $260,000 business, he is in the minority when it comes to small business owners and he certainly is not middle class. And yet, all the pundits are painting this guy as the face of "average joe's" in America.

And since we are talking about taxes, lets look at Obama's tax increase. It is a 3% increase. That means a person making $260,000 will pay $300 more in taxes under his plan. Now, not every person making $250,000 is a small-business owner, but perhaps the savings a small business owner like Joe will get from Obama's health insurance credits will help.


For most Americans in the middle-class over the last 8 years, we have seen our cost of living increase by 2-3% almost every year. If a person making $250,000 has to pay a little more in taxes, I think they are still doing a lot better than the 95% of Americans that aren't.

EDITED: Thanks for the clarification on the taxes and how they are increased over $250,000.

 

[xabre]

Why be so uptight for? Gore is going to win the election so chill out yeah?

This election can't even be closely compared to that one.

 

[1-D_FTW]

The blinking got really hilarious to me and the people I was watching with at work - it's like he used some amphetamine eyedrops or something. At least he stopped calling himself a maverick.

Blinking is totally the new "my friends."

It looked like he was trying to transmit some secret Morse code using his eyes.

 

[sangreal]

I was sick of hearing about this guy before the debate was over and hearing him all over the news this morning has turned that sickness into frustration. This guy is not the face of the middle-class. He is not the average joe. If he can afford a $260,000 business, he is in the minority when it comes to small business owners and he certainly is not middle class. And yet, all the pundits are painting this guy as the face of "average joe's" in America.

And since we are talking about taxes, lets look at Obama's tax increase. It is a 3% increase. That means a person making $250,000 will pay $7500 more in taxes under his plan. Now, I not every person making $250,000 is a small-business owner, but perhaps the savings a small business owner like Joe will get from Obama's health insurance credits will help. In fact, a person spends ~12,500 a year on health insurance. If Obama dleivers on his promise, a small business owner will get a 50% credit on those benefits. That is $6250. Which means, they may only have to pay $1250 more in taxes which is 0.5% of their total income.

For most Americans in the middle-class over the last 8 years, we have seen our cost of living increase by 2-3% almost every year. If a person making $250,000 has to pay a little more in taxes, I think they are still doing a lot better than the 95% of Americans that aren't.

Its only an increase on the income over 250,000. At $300,000 it would be a $1500 tax increase

 

[gcubed]

so Obama is down 2 pts in WV where he hasnt even been contesting... all he has to do is pretty much show up in W Va and say, "Hey guys, look at me!" and he can probably pull a small lead there

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Its only an increase on the income over 250,000. At $300,000 it would be a $1500 tax increase

So, if a person makes $260,000, they only pay 3% more on $10,000? Are you sure?

 

[DenogginizerOS]

so Obama is down 2 pts in WV where he hasnt even been contesting... all he has to do is pretty much show up in W Va and say, "Hey guys, look at me!" and he can probably pull a small lead there

In WV, there are a lot of places that would not warm to that. I specifically remember a woman being interviewed back during the primaries when Hilary won big in WV and the woman said Obama is, "not one of our kind".

 

[GrapeApes]

Here's the black dude who slurped McCain walking off CNN. Sell out is right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPVJnyRPZ3k

 

[JzeroT1437]

so Obama is down 2 pts in WV where he hasnt even been contesting... all he has to do is pretty much show up in W Va and say, "Hey guys, look at me!" and he can probably pull a small lead there

You don't know how many ignorant frigid rednecks there are here. It's horrifying. He's probably going to lose here, unfortunately.

We have too many plumbers worth more than 250,000 a year. Or at least idiots who didn't hear or understand the actual numbers part and only got the narrative of the message.

 

[guess]

Why be so uptight for? Obama is going to win the election so chill out yeah?

ok, I will chill out and stop being so uptight. sorry

 

[xabre]

ok, I will chill out and stop being so uptight. sorry

Good.

 

[eznark]

Here's the black dude who slurped McCain walking off CNN. Sell out is right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPVJnyRPZ3k

Black guys can't like McCain?

edit: I can't access youtube, is it James T Harris?

 

[NekoFever]

I was just on Rapture Ready and they're accusing Fox News of selling them out now and asking for new 'unbiased' news sources :lol

 

[GrapeApes]

Black guys can't like McCain?

edit: I can't access youtube, is it James T Harris?

Yeah it's that guy. Other black republican called him a sell out on his conservative principles for voting McCain. Didn't like the argument but he said only one person seemed like a leader through out this whole thing. (which is dead on)

I've got no problem with blacks supporting McCain but the way he did it was not a good look. Begging McCain just to bring up Wright and slam Obama? Seriously? Even McCain doesn't pull Wright up because he doesn't want to stir up racism in his campaign.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

And now all that's left between now and election day is a thirty minute OBAMA INFOMERCIAL.

So good

Time to run the clock out

 

[sangreal]

So, if a person makes $260,000, they only pay 3% more on $10,000? Are you sure?

Yeah, thats how the tax bracket system works

If it worked differently, it would be possible to lose money by getting a raise!

 

[iapetus]

As clueless as John McCain is, I have a hard time believing he'd blurt out something that would make him look so stupid. I wonder if he really meant, 'ZERO?!' as in, 'yeah, no fucking way that's happening' instead of 'ZERO?! WHAT AN AWESOME DEAL PRESIDENT OBAMA!'

It sounded to me more like "ZERO?! That's not what my pre-debate briefing said. Shit."

 

[Maximilian E.]

What is it americans (well, some.. and the anti socialist thinking. I mean, when Obama says things like "spread the wealth" then some, in the media and in appalachia, are talking about "Commie" and "Marxist" and "Obama is buddy buddy with Chavez and Kimche from North korea".... I mean wtf..there are "levels" of socialism..is not Ultra left or ultra right....

some people are truly "morans"..

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Can anybody tell me which of the "This American Life" episodes I should listen to in order to get the best understanding of this economic situation? I've seen them listed several times throughout this thread, but it's only now that I think I want to listen to them.

 

[Fjolle]

So, if a person makes $260,000, they only pay 3% more on $10,000? Are you sure?

How much is the tax cut for the income under 250k?
If the taxes of the income under 250k is lovered, and the tax for the income over 250k is raised by 3% wont joe plmber get a tax cut if he earns 260-270k a year?

Edit:

Can anybody tell me which of the "This American Life" episodes I should listen to in order to get the best understanding of this economic situation? I've seen them listed several times throughout this thread, but it's only now that I think I want to listen to them.

355 and 365

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Looks like Joe the Plumber is voting for McCain from what I saw on TV this morning.

 

[sangreal]

It sounded to me more like "ZERO?! That's not what my pre-debate briefing said. Shit."

That was the impression I got too

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

It sounded to me more like "ZERO?! That's not what my pre-debate briefing said. Shit."

Precisely. I could watch that until November 5th.

 

[JzeroT1437]

What is it americans (well, some.. and the anti socialist thinking. I mean, when Obama says things like "spread the wealth" then some, in the media and in appalachia, are talking about "Commie" and "Marxist" and "Obama is buddy buddy with Chavez and Kimche from North korea".... I mean wtf..there are "levels" of socialism..is not Ultra left or ultra right....

some people are truly "morans"..

It's because we in Appalachia have such extravagant wealth to spread around. I'm personally going to take a swan dive into my giant bank vault filled with gold doubloons just after showering.

 

[Loudninja]

"Joe the Plumber" Not a Registered Voter

Two readers with access to the Ohio voter file say that Joe Wurzelbacher's inluence on this cycle will be limited in one way: He doesn't appear to be registered to vote.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/The_Joe_file.html#comments

 

[Ponn]

Looks like Joe the Plumber is voting for McCain from what I saw on TV this morning.

Of course he is. That's why he was planted by the McCain campaign in the first place.

 

[Sleeker]

Hillary Clinton watching 3rd Debate:

That woman is always right near her.
Has anyone heard the rumors of hil being a closeted lesbian?

 

[Ventron]

Good.

I really hope you're going to vote instead of staying home asserting the outcome. Complacency like this is why the young vote is not so sought after.

 

[Slurpy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5mdIPNB8t8

Very, very scary. McCain came off as such a tool, refusing to take any responsibility for this, and playing the victim.

 

[thesoapster]

Looks like Joe the Plumber is voting for McCain from what I saw on TV this morning.

Yeah. Seems that way.

 

[Fragamemnon]

Huma Abedin? Wikipedia says she's dating a congressman from NY.

Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Charlie Crist is getting married to a woman this year and he's like SUPERGAY.

 

[Gallbaro]

Hillary Clinton watching 3rd Debate:

That woman is always right near her.
Has anyone heard the rumors of hil being a closeted lesbian?

Yes and from a secret service agent who claimed to be on her 2 presidential election detail.

 

[Tobor]

Yeah. Seems that way.

There was never any question about this. That's why McCain brought him up.

 

[Justin Bailey]

So, if a person makes $260,000, they only pay 3% more on $10,000? Are you sure?

Yup:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States#Year_2008_income_brackets_and_tax_rates

Anytime you hear someone bitching about how they "don't want to get into another tax bracket," it usually means they don't understand how it works.

 

[CharlieDigital]

So, if a person makes $260,000, they only pay 3% more on $10,000? Are you sure?

Yes, that's how tax brackets work.

I've been trying to make this point :lol

US taxpayers, by and large, have no idea how the tax brackets work.

We seriously need a thread on tax brackets....I think most people are just clueless on this.

 

[Maximilian E.]

It's because we in Appalachia have such extravagant wealth to spread around. I'm personally going to take a swan dive into my giant bank vault filled with gold doubloons just after showering.

Ok, but what about "helping those who are less fortunate" then? Or is it "every man for itself" in appalachia?

 

[Dahellisdat]

Joe Sixpack, Joe The Plumber, and Joesus Christ. I call it the Joe-ly Trinity.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Yes, that's how tax brackets work.

I've been trying to make this point :lol

US taxpayers, by and large, have no idea how the tax brackets work.

The way it is portrayed in the media does make it sound a lot worse in many cases. In my defense, I haven't gone up or down in my tax bracket in over 8 years so I really didn't have hard numbers to compare. But you are right, saying Americans have trouble understanding tax laws is an understatement.

 

[Dabanton]

Joe “the Plumber” Wurzelbacher related to Charles “the Crook” Keating. Oops.
October 15th, 2008 . by Marty

John McCain did great tonight in the debate. But every time John mentioned “Joe the Plumber,” some of us in the campaign banged our heads against the wall. If Steve Schmidt had any hair left, I hear he would have been pulling it out tonight. He reportedly screamed at John’s debate prep team tonight (out of earshot of reporters, of course). “You idiots - he’s related to Charles Keating… of the Keating Five scandal!” They thought they had a real live Joe Six-Pack who’s spurned Barack Obama’s tax plan. But what they forgot to do was check on Joe Wurzelbacher’s background.

Turns out that Joe Wurzelbacher from the Toledo event is a close relative of Robert Wurzelbacher of Milford, Ohio. Who’s Robert Wurzelbacher? Only Charles Keating’s son-in-law and the former senior vice president of American Continental, the parent company of the infamous Lincoln Savings and Loan. The now retired elder Wurzelbacher is also a major contributor to Republican causes giving well over $10,000 in the last few years.

Does any of this make Joe the Plumber a bad guy? Of course not. In fact, after that ill-fated night at the Watergate, he may finally be giving plumbers a good name. But at a debate where John goes full bore on Obama for guilt-by-association with William Ayers (and dodges a bullet by Obama not mentioning Keating Five), the press is going to bring it back front and center by midday tomorrow once they delve deeper into the most popular plumber in America.

link

 

[CharlieDigital]

The way it is portrayed in the media does make it sound a lot worse in many cases. In my defense, I haven't gone up or down in my tax bracket in over 8 years so I really didn't have hard numbers to compare. But you are right, saying Americans have trouble understanding tax laws is an understatement.

Well, it should be obvious by the effective tax rate that you end up paying. My wife and I are above the second tax bracket (33%) but paid an effective tax rate of about 21% this year.

This year was really the first time that I took time to understand this (I've been filing for myself for about 5 years now) since I ended up owing $12,000 more in taxes.

Calculator here --> http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm

Everyone should look over the example:

(	$ 7,000   -   	 0 )	   x .10 :	      $   700
(	28,400   -   	7,000 )	  x .15 :	3,210
(	57,325   -   	28,400 )	  x .25 :	7,231
(	87,350   -   	57,325 )	  x .28 :	8,407
(	100,000   -   	87,350 )	  x .33 :	4,175
	    Total: 	  $ 23,723

"This puts you in the 33% tax bracket; but as a percentage of your income, your tax is about 23.7%. "

And yeah, the media does a great disservice to the public by not explaining how the progressive tax brackets work. "Punishing success" is so far from the truth, I don't understand how people even use that argument against a higher top tier tax bracket. No person becomes wealthy in a vacuum; each business needs well educated and well trained employees via the public education system. Each business needs a base of customers who can pay for the services or goods and for this you need a strong middle class. Each business needs infrastructure like roads, trains and bridges so that it can attract talented individuals no matter where they live in respect to the business.

People who make more rightly have a greater responsibility to feed into the system since they reap the biggest benefit from government spending indirectly.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

link

:lol Yea, the guy sure was a plant alright.

 

[eznark]

Yeah it's that guy. Other black republican called him a sell out on his conservative principles for voting McCain. Didn't like the argument but he said only one person seemed like a leader through out this whole thing. (which is dead on)

I've got no problem with blacks supporting McCain but the way he did it was not a good look. Begging McCain just to bring up Wright and slam Obama? Seriously? Even McCain doesn't pull Wright up because he doesn't want to stir up racism in his campaign.

He does radio in Milwaukee. I don't really like him because he's kind of stupid, but man, he has been getting some absurd feedback for his stances. He reads the emails and plays voice mails sometimes.

If you've read I Had a Hammer (Hank Aaron) it would sound pretty similar.

 

[Tobor]

link

Worst run campaign ever. :lol

 

[Barrett2]

edit.

 

[xabre]

I really hope you're going to vote instead of staying home asserting the outcome. Complacency like this is why the young vote is not so sought after.

I won't be voting. Obama will win.

 

[GrapeApes]

Any other sources besides a blog?

 

[eznark]

What do congressional races look like? Is the left going to make significant gains in both branches?

 

[Ventron]

I won't be voting. Obama will win.

*sigh*

Woo... go Obama... or something... more or less...

 

[xabre]

*sigh*

Woo... go Obama... or something... more or less...

Dude I didn't even vote in my own country's election and its compulsory here. What makes you think I'm going to vote in yours?