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[bob_arctor]

policing is a reactionary stance, i would rather work on solving the problem at the source than to try and manage the effects.

So you're saying we could stop, say, rape, altogether, eliminate it entirely, if only we were pro-active?

We will never stop murder, rape, theft, and other dark acts of human nature but that doesn't mean you don't try to.

Or does that somehow only apply to terrorism? If so, why? It definitely falls into the category of "dark acts of human nature". We both agree there I assume.

 

[numble]

That's messed up. I can't believe all states don't have photo ID requirements. Add one more thing that needs to be added to voter reform.

Voter ID requirements just open it up for voter suppression. If either the data entry people entered me in as "Vince Vangogh" or the person registering me at the mall misheard and put my name as "Vince Vangogh," while my ID says "Vincent Van Gogh, Jr." a campaign's poll observer will be within the law when they say that I am not allowed to vote.

 

[n1n9tean]

Whenever Limbaugh dies, and if there is a thread here about it, I'm going to pre-emptively state that I will not be mourning his death in that thread, rather I will cherish his death, and will state that his death was a positive thing for the world, and the world is a better place. I don't believe in this bullshit where you suddenly mourn someone after he passes, regardless of the negative and harmful effect of their lives, and ask that he rest in piece. If that gets me banned at the time, so be it. I'm not going to mince my words. Rush Limbaugh and the like are the reason the world is such a shitty place sometimes, and impede progress of any sort.

Although not to such a harsh degree, I'm with you. :lol

 

[oldschoolpinball]

this palin rally is awesome for all fo the wrong reasons! " now is where you chant drill baby drill *wink* "

 

[ColdDeckEd]

policing is a reactionary stance, i would rather work on solving the problem at the source than to try and manage the effects.

So you're saying Iraq is the source of Islamo-fascism? :lol

 

[scorcho]

policing is a reactionary stance, i would rather work on solving the problem at the source than to try and manage the effects.

Attacking terrorism through military force is solving it at the source?

Also, I don't understand how policing is a reactionary stance. At all. Unless you don't understand what the term implies.

 

[numble]

Whenever Limbaugh dies, and if there is a thread here about it, I'm going to pre-emptively state that I will not be mourning his death in that thread, rather I will cherish his death, and will state that his death was a positive thing for the world, and the world is a better place. I don't believe in this bullshit where you suddenly mourn someone after he passes, regardless of the negative and harmful effect of their lives, and ask that he rest in piece. If that gets me banned at the time, so be it. I'm not going to mince my words. Rush Limbaugh and the like are the reason the world is such a shitty place sometimes, and impede progress of any sort.

He is still very young. And Hannity is much younger. And Malkin even younger.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Holy shit. It's like a list of the craziest GOP talking points regurgitated in question form. That was absurd. Biden tore her apart.

I think Biden showed incredible restraint considering how batshit insane her questions were. I would have walked out on the interview after the Marxist question if I were him.

 

[SketchTheArtist]

this palin rally is awesome for all fo the wrong reasons! " now is where you chant drill baby drill *wink* "

What a crock of shit. I can't believe she's still saying how "Obama wants to take your money and redistribute it for his own agenda." She's actually talking to millionaires and CEOs, not the actual people in the audience. Wake up people.

 

[scorcho]

What a crock of shit. I can't believe she's still saying how "Obama wants to take your money and redistribute it for his own agenda." She's actually talking to millionaires and CEOs, not the actual people in the audience. Wake up people.

It's like we warped back to the great Communist/Socialist threat of the USSR. It's great to watch the slow unraveling of Republican Party.

 

[Zombie James]

What a crock of shit. I can't believe she's still saying how "Obama wants to take your money and redistribute it for his own agenda." She's actually talking to millionaires and CEOs, not the actual people in the audience. Wake up people.

The incredibly sad thing is that the people cheering for this crap are probably the ones that'll benefit the most from Obama.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I think Biden showed incredible restraint considering how batshit insane her questions were. I would have walked out on the interview after the Marxist question if I were him.

"Look at Sen. Biden run! I must have hit a nerve."

 

[numble]

Remember how the US Supreme Court through out the GOP's Ohio suit because they ruled that private parties aren't allowed to sue under the HAVA statute? Basically, it threw the suit out on a technicality and ruled that only the government (not the GOP or other private party) can pursue HAVA claims in court.

http://www.rollcall.com/news/29533-1.html?CMP=OTC-RSS

President Bush is asking the Justice Department to look into whether 200,000 Buckeye State poll-goers must use provisional ballots on Election Day because their names do not match state databases.

In response to a Boehner letter:

“I respectfully request that you use your authority to direct Attorney General Michael Mukasey and the U.S. Department of Justice to investigate these actions and direct the appropriate authorities in each state to comply with the Section 303 requirements of HAVA,” Boehner wrote.

 

[Saint Gregory]

"Look at Sen. Biden run! I must have hit a nerve."

Exactly why I'm not on the Democratic ticket. I heard I was on the McCain camp's short list though...

 

[TDG]

I don't know why people are even worried about voter fraud this year. You can maybe steal a close election, but you can't steal a lanslide election. Besides, Obama's MASSIVE legal team has everything covered.

 

[numble]

I don't know why people are even worried about voter fraud this year. You can maybe steal a close election, but you can't steal a lanslide election. Besides, Obama's MASSIVE legal team has everything covered.

It's not voter fraud, it's voter suppression. They want to throw out 200,000 votes "because of misspellings, incorrect addresses or other inconsistencies in their records." 200,000 is a lot, even in a "landslide."

Edit: The legal team (of which I will soon become a part of, gonna go down to Ohio in less than a week) can only ensure that voters follow the law, and if the law is ruled to be X (which we don't favor) instead of Y (which we favor), then there is only so much we can do--we'll have to follow X. And the Obama legal team can't formally help Ohio fight the Department of Justice in court.

 

[thekad]

I don't know why people are even worried about voter fraud this year. You can maybe steal a close election, but you can't steal a lanslide election. Besides, Obama's MASSIVE legal team has everything covered.

You've become a lot more optimistic. That troubles me for some reason.

 

[syllogism]

CNN has a follow up on Politico's "Palin gone rogue" story and has this tidbit

A second McCain source tells CNN she appears to be looking out for herself more than the McCain campaign.

"She is a diva. She takes no advice from anyone," said this McCain adviser. "She does not have any relationships of trust with any of us, her family or anyone else.

"Also, she is playing for her own future and sees herself as the next leader of the party. Remember: Divas trust only unto themselves as they see themselves as the beginning and end of all wisdom."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/25/palin.tension/index.html

 

[Zombie James]

The next leader of the party?! :lol

 

[Deku]

Obama's foreign policy view is deeply conservative which is why the likes of Powell supports him.

He is all about restoring American prestige and by extension American hegemony in the various international organizations it is involved in, and not for a retreat into America, which the Ron Paul wing of the Party wants or a fullscale retreat in foreign adventures, which the hard lefties want.

His most potent foreign policy argument is basically "Remember America's prestige under Raegan and Bush 41? I'll restore it if I'm president"

I don't mind this world view one bit, but I think it needs mentioning.

 

[scorcho]

I don't know why people are even worried about voter fraud this year. You can maybe steal a close election, but you can't steal a lanslide election. Besides, Obama's MASSIVE legal team has everything covered.

'Cuz most people are ignorant to GOP attempts to use voter fraud as a Trojan horse to introduce voter suppression tactics.

 

[The Librarian]

The next leader of the party?! :lol

Palin for president '12!

 

[BobLoblaw]

Finally got to vote. +1 for Obama. There were a shit ton of people out voting today. My wait was close to 90 minutes, but not a single person left the line at any point which was pretty impressive. People are really focused on this election on both sides. My only problem is that I live in Tennessee. :\

 

[Slurpy]

The incredibly sad thing is that the people cheering for this crap are probably the ones that'll benefit the most from Obama.

My brain wanted to commit suicide, when McCain stated that Obama wanted to tax the 'very rich', and everyone started booing, while I'm pretty sure most people in that audience make less than 50K a year. Keep at it guys, glad to see you enjoy being raped up the ass and cheer policies that will not benefit you in the least but harm you. Its one of the caveats of being dumb as bricks.

 

[Karma Kramer]

CNN has a follow up on Politico's "Palin gone rogue" story and has this tidbit


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/25/palin.tension/index.html

All this Palin fighting against the McCain campaign is just a ploy to get the base riled up about how much of a maverick she is against the other maverick.

They are so mavericky that their maverickness is conflicting with each other.

 

[The Librarian]

Finally got to vote. +1 for Obama. There were a shit ton of people out voting today. My wait was close to 90 minutes, but not a single person left the line at any point which was pretty impressive. People are really focused on this election on both sides. My only problem is that I live in Tennessee. :\

Pack your bags and move to NC.

 

[artredis1980]

what would be amazing that when John McCain in the last week knows he is losing and she is contributing to it, he will do his october surprise and drop her as his VP saying he made a mistake., that will destroy Palin as a future leader. I am pretty sure this is exactly what McCain will do if Palin goes even more Rogue than what she has already become

 

[Zombie James]

Palin for president '12!

Well, four years of high school education would really help her out. MAVERICK II: THE LEARNENING (Coming Soon, Fall '12).

 

[scorcho]

Obama's foreign policy view is deeply conservative which is why the likes of Powell supports him.

He is all about restoring American prestige and by extension American hegemony in the various international organizations it is involved in, and not for a retreat into America, which the Ron Paul wing of the Party wants or a fullscale retreat in foreign adventures, which the hard lefties want.

His most potent foreign policy argument is basically Remeber America's prestige under Raegan and Bush 41? I'll restore it.

I don't mind this world view one bit, but I think it needs mentioning.

It's very centrist, very realist. I'm hopeful that he'll strengthen our positive involvement in and, by extension, the legitimacy of various supranational organizations and treaties that allows us to check the likes of China and such by forcing them to work within the Western system we helped create.

 

[mj1108]

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/taking-back-t-6.html

i almost threw up laughing from this

This one is awesome too:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/taking-back-t-5.html

(and takes a hit of hopium....)

 

[3rdman]

+2 for Obama here in Florida!

 

[AndyIsTheMoran]

Can you elaborate on your WWII point please?

Now, I understand that even if we were to stop meddling in the region now (even if we stopped supporting Israel), animosity towards us would continue, which is why I'm making this argument as "what should have been done," not "what we should do."

And that anti-American propaganda that targets our lifestyle? A result of hatred for us because we meddle in the region. Without our having done that, propaganda like that would no exist.

well for one, hindsight is alwasy 20-20. And to my WWII point, we were a isolationist country after WWI. Many people saw the problems that the treaty of Versailles and other post WWI conditions were doing in Germany. Churchill was widely ignored in trying to address the problem as it was growing. We were ignoring Germany, allowing them to rebuild and expand. And we all know how that ended up.

Now im not trying to say Iran, Syria, North Korea, or whoever is an equivalent case, but I think this is a plausible reason as to why we should stay involved in global politics, and realize that an isolationist attitude, especially with emerging China and Russia, will only come back to haunt us.

and do you really think that our progressive tendencies wouldn't be an issue for many Muslim countries, regardless of our intervention?

 

[Mandark]

Non-state actors act within states because it's hard to find land that's completely autonomous. Jesus.

Not just that, but terrorist and paramilitary groups tend to spring up where there is no strong central authority. South Lebanon, Waziristan, Darfur, etc.

Removing stable regimes, even undemocratic ones hostile to the US, creates a vacuum that is a billion times more likely to spawn these non-state actors than the roguest of rogue states.

 

[TDG]

It's not voter fraud, it's voter suppression. They want to throw out 200,000 votes "because of misspellings, incorrect addresses or other inconsistencies in their records." 200,000 is a lot, even in a "landslide."

I'm just talking about in general, the fraud and supression worries.

And though 200,000 is a lot even in a landslide, it's 200,000 in just one state, and Ohio isn't really a must-win at all for Obama.

You've become a lot more optimistic. That troubles me for some reason.

Eh, I guess. I've always suspected that we may be headed towards a blowout and that this would be a "shift electon" (of course 2006 was the real shift election, but I digress,) but I wanted to keep my expectations in check for awhile.

I mean, to be honest, I think that outside of a major event like Osama being captured/putting out a tape endorsing Obama, this election's over. The finger-pointing and retracing steps has already begun for the GOP, and it seems like McCain is doing more campaigning in states he's sure to lose (Iowa and NM today) in order to energize the base there to try to avoid massive House, Senate, Governor, and local election losses, a la Dole in '96. This baby's over.

 

[M3wThr33]

The next leader of the party?! :lol

SHE thinks it. Remember, this is a woman that couldn't name a fucking magazine that she read. She lives a sheltered life out in the fucking boonies of America. She's thrust from a no-name governor to VP candidate solely because she is attractive, female and as right-wing as you can get.

Her little mind matured WAY too fast for this and now she thinks she could carry herself. It's not surprising. The GOP has been WAY too fucking supportive of her and basically flat-out fucking lying to make her feel confident.

 

[Nabs]

CNN has a follow up on Politico's "Palin gone rogue" story and has this tidbit


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/25/palin.tension/index.html

:lol

 

[monchi-kun]

The next leader of the party?! :lol

isn't this the gist of Rush's diatribe as quoted above?

 

[AndyIsTheMoran]

So you're saying we could stop, say, rape, altogether, eliminate it entirely, if only we were pro-active?



Or does that somehow only apply to terrorism? If so, why? It definitely falls into the category of "dark acts of human nature". We both agree there I assume.

You don't agree that prevention is better, and more effective, than reaction?

 

[Mandark]

well for one, hindsight is alwasy 20-20. And to my WWII point, we were a isolationist country after WWI. Many people saw the problems that the treaty of Versailles and other post WWI conditions were doing in Germany. Churchill was widely ignored in trying to address the problem as it was growing. We were ignoring Germany, allowing them to rebuild and expand. And we all know how that ended up.

Now im not trying to say Iran, Syria, North Korea, or whoever is an equivalent case, but I think this is a plausible reason as to why we should stay involved in global politics, and realize that an isolationist attitude, especially with emerging China and Russia, will only come back to haunt us.

and do you really think that our progressive tendencies wouldn't be an issue for many Muslim countries, regardless of our intervention?

OPPOSITION TO DUMB INVASIONS IS NOT ISOLATIONISM.

 

[Trakdown]

CNN has a follow up on Politico's "Palin gone rogue" story and has this tidbit


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/25/palin.tension/index.html

That plus the story going around that the McCain camp is going to "shred her" is going to make for some fantastic fireworks if true.

 

[artredis1980]

That plus the story going around that the McCain camp is going to "shred her" is going to make for some fantastic fireworks if true.

link?

 

[AndyIsTheMoran]

So you're saying Iraq is the source of Islamo-fascism? :lol

no, of course not. but the region is where the heart of it lies. Ive said in previous post I thought Iraq was very much the wrong war at the wrong time, but only that since we are already in it, we should work for what would be the best solution instead of dropping it completely.

But does anyone not think islamo-facism is our biggest man made nation security threat? Our biggest domestic attack was a result of it, our the past 20 years we've had numerous attacks as a result of it. I see it as a very viable threat that requires invention, that without our intervention, and only policing, it will get worse and more destructive.

 

[Trakdown]

link?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/25/mccain-faces-internal-pal_n_137786.html

Anger among Republicans who see Palin as a star and as a potential future leader has boiled over because, they say, they see other senior McCain aides preparing to blame her in the event he is defeated.

"These people are going to try and shred her after the campaign to divert blame from themselves," said a McCain insider, referring to McCain's chief strategist, Steve Schmidt, and to Nicolle Wallace, a former Bush aide who has taken a lead role in Palin's campaign.

 

[syllogism]

For polling data released during the week of October 26-November 1, 2008, the partisan weighting targets will be 40.0% Democratic, 32.8% Republican, and 27.2% unaffiliated. For the preceding week, the partisan weighting targets were 39.7% Democratic, 33.0% Republican, and 27.3% unaffiliated.

Another 0.5% net shift

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...ighting_targets_40_0_democrat_32_8_republican

 

[scorcho]

Removing stable regimes, even undemocratic ones hostile to the US, creates a vacuum that is a billion times more likely to spawn these non-state actors than the roguest of rogue states.

But if we don't attack the problem at the source through the military nothing will be solved! We must invade and rebuild all states that harbor terrorism and reorient them to democracy.

You don't agree that prevention is better, and more effective, than reaction?

False distinction. You haven't even articulated what is considered 'preventive' action or how viewing terrorism as a policing issue somehow implies a reactionary stance that somehow, someway can't be considered preventive.

 

[Ether_Snake]

They should have picked a candidate who could say what he/she actually believes. I'm pretty sure Palin thinks robocalls are stupid and annoying, but I don't think she's very good at saying things she doesn't agree or believe in.

Whatever, she has no future in Washington.

 

[AndyIsTheMoran]

Attacking terrorism through military force is solving it at the source?

Also, I don't understand how policing is a reactionary stance. At all. Unless you don't understand what the term implies.

policing implies placing efforts for protection from it, and not action towards containing it. Policing would mean tougher security here, and pursuing people who have already committed acts. I think prevention would be much more effective, Striking these groups before or as they rise. Funding governments based on their efforts to stop it as well, and not be tolerated by many fundamentalist governments like its seems to be now. Of course policing is needed, but i don't think we should rule out small scale military intervention.

 

[artredis1980]

from now on lets everyone on gaf use Drudge's favourite poll just for laffs

 

[seat]

All this Palin fighting against the McCain campaign is just a ploy to get the base riled up about how much of a maverick she is against the other maverick.

They are so mavericky that their maverickness is conflicting with each other.

I was going to say the same. She's just playing the role that the McCain campaign has framed her.

from now on lets everyone on gaf use Drudge's favourite poll just for laffs

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IMAGES/trackpoll102508.jpg

Youth vote still in favor of McCain I see. :lol

 

[TDG]

well for one, hindsight is alwasy 20-20. And to my WWII point, we were a isolationist country after WWI. Many people saw the problems that the treaty of Versailles and other post WWI conditions were doing in Germany. Churchill was widely ignored in trying to address the problem as it was growing. We were ignoring Germany, allowing them to rebuild and expand. And we all know how that ended up.

But I'm talking about from an American point of view. We have large yet friendly nighbors who are no threat to us. We aren't in Europe. Anything that goes on in Europe isn't really comparable to any policies we make, because ever conflict they have had was a result of long-held ethnic and nationalistic hatreds and border disputes.

So yeah, comparing the failures of short-term post-war isolationist (as in: let's not feel the need to invade random countries for no particular reason) policies by a country in Europe to a long-term isolationist policy for a country that is already isolated (by geography) from "the old world" is kind of silly.

Now im not trying to say Iran, Syria, North Korea, or whoever is an equivalent case, but I think this is a plausible reason as to why we should stay involved in global politics, and realize that an isolationist attitude, especially with emerging China and Russia, will only come back to haunt us.

Oh, I agree. I think there are certain arenas where using some isolationist principles would have done us good, but applying them to modern day Iran, or N. Korea or China would be silly. This is one of the main reasons I'm glad that Obama has pledged to meet with leaders from these countries.

and do you really think that our progressive tendencies wouldn't be an issue for many Muslim countries, regardless of our intervention?

Maybe it would be an issue for some people, but they certainly wouldn't be flying planes into buildings because they don't like our progressive tendencies.