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PoliGAF Interim Thread of cunning stunts and desperate punts

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HokieJoe said:
The abuse and overall mismanagement of the programs I work with are what makes me very skeptical that a universal health care system will be any less of a boondoggle. I know it's a complicated issue, and I don't want to whitewash the issue, but my experience leaves me with a decided lack of faith in government bureaucracy's ability to deal with something as large as universal health care. Moreover, there are privacy issues that I'd rather be dealt with at the private level (for liabilities sake) as opposed to a government administered program.

All that said, I realize that some changes need to be made to the system. For instance, too many hospitals are in competition with one another selling pricey services like MRI's, CAT scans, and like. Ideally, expensive machines like that should be situated regionally to minimize the competitive pressures. There are many other health care issues that need to be tackled head on (like prospective care), but I favor a very large ration of well reasoned debate before giving the Fed’s a mandate. I would prefer that a regulation be kept at the absolute minimum to improve the system and ultimately, promote better competition.
That's all fair. I just want to reiterate that social spending programs are not necessarily the heart of my liberal views. It's not like I'm a liberal just because of modern day Robin Hood ideals. Yes, I might somewhat agree with the ideals behind these programs, and I might also not shed any tears for Richie Rich who exists in a higher tax bracket to fund them, but that's really not the crux of my political beliefs. I'm completely open to moderate views on fiscal issues, even if I skew slightly liberal.

I am, however, staunchly liberal on many other issues, though.
 

Gruco

Banned
HokieJoe said:
Warner is a very popular politician. Kaine rode Warner's coat tails. Webb won a lark (Allen was a lock until his infamous rally comment). The war isn't popular in the suburbs of DC and Richmond, but I maintain that Virginia's base voter demographic is still quite conservative (relative to other states). But don't take me seriously, it's JMO.
Eh, I think we've been over this before, but just to bring up the counterpoints for bystanders:

- Warner is so popular that he could have coattails of his own.
- NoVa population growth, demographic changes blah blah blah
- I think even the conservatives in VA are generally more moderate than those a few states south and Obama has the ability to make significant inroads.

I'm not calling it or anything, but it's a winable state.

edit - and even if Webb's run was improbable, it was still a hell of an accomplishment. He took down an incumbent who probably had a serious chance of being the GOP nominee right now. It was part luck, part the wave of 2006, but just as much part of the changing face of the state and Webb himself.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Rugasuki said:
I agree but one problem I foresee is that Palin and McCain will be so vague in their responses that it will be difficult to attack. Also, Biden has said that he doesn't know any of Palin's positions. This makes it harder for him to go into attack mode. He may try to attack her assuming what her position is and then she can just say that it is different and she will be interpreted as the winner.


But see that's a problem with Palin as well. Being that she doesn't have a position on 80% of the debate questions she has to study super hard for 4 weeks right?

So her positions can't be that far from John McCain's positions. Honestly there's no way she learn foreign policy, national security, economic policy, and domestic policy in 4 weeks and then learn what's McCain's positions are on them in order to NOT screw up the talking points.

If she does Biden can call her out on it. Biden knows McCain like the back of his hand. If he notices something that doesn't fit he can do a rebuttal and ask her to further explain the point.

This will make her look stupid and screw up.
 

AniHawk

Member
In Audacity of Hope, Obama talks about how no one really got under his skin quite like Alan Keyes (for insinuating Obama wasn't a true Christian). The Keyes/Obama debates might be the best insight into how Obama deals with an opponent from a different ideology.

225px-Alan_Keyes.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md2bf9DNVB4

Probably doesn't hurt that Keyes comes off as a few types of crazy. I'd be surprised to see McCain's speaking ability come anywhere near either Obama or Keyes.
 

Agent Icebeezy

Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!

HokieJoe

Member
Gruco said:
Eh, I think we've been over this before, but just to bring up the counterpoints for bystanders:

- Warner is so popular that he could have coattails of his own.
- NoVa population growth, demographic changes blah blah blah
- I think even the conservatives in VA are generally more moderate than those a few states south and Obama has the ability to make significant inroads.

I'm not calling it or anything, but it's a winable state.


Yeah, I recall this discussion. Your points are fair, but I think changing demographics is overplayed a bit. I think people in the suburbs (and statewide) are still very sensitive to taxes, and McCain will seize that issue. (See Kaine's inability to get another tax increase by the House). Plus, I think the military vote will trend heavily toward McCain. Again, just gut instinct here.
 
AniHawk said:
Probably doesn't hurt that Keyes comes off as a few types of crazy. I'd be surprised to see McCain's speaking ability come anywhere near either Obama or Keyes.

Keyes is more than just a few types.
 
AniHawk said:
225px-Alan_Keyes.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md2bf9DNVB4

Probably doesn't hurt that Keyes comes off as a few types of crazy. I'd be surprised to see McCain's speaking ability come anywhere near either Obama or Keyes.
Alan Keys is comedy gold. That guy is crazy on a stick.

Why didn't they let him speak at the RNC? They could have got some real color on stage other than the Texas railroad commissioner or whoever that guy was.
 

Nabs

Member
Alan Keyes would be an awesome character on a sketch comedy show :lol. SNL, Mad TV, In Living Color, Chappelle, etc...
 

Zeliard

Member
speculawyer said:
Alan Keys is comedy gold. That guy is crazy on a stick.

Why didn't they let him speak at the RNC? They could have got some real color on stage other than the Texas railroad commissioner or whoever that guy was.

Larry Wilmore spots Alan Keyes at the RNC.

28ama83.jpg


"What are you doing here, man?"

:lol
 
mckmas8808 said:
But to be fair Obama has rocked youtube and other social websites. He has shirts that sell out the wazoo to us youngins. And he has a major song that's been played I think 15 million times on youtube with Will i am.

And I honestly believe that us young people want change enough to get out and vote. I don't why I'm about to say this but like Obama I trust the American people this time.
My mom keeps trying to reassure me about this "They can't be wrong all the time."

I hope.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
HokieJoe said:
Yeah, I recall this discussion. Your points are fair, but I think changing demographics is overplayed a bit. I think people in the suburbs (and statewide) are still very sensitive to taxes, and McCain will seize that issue. (See Kaine's inability to get another tax increase by the House). Plus, I think the military vote will trend heavily toward McCain. Again, just gut instinct here.


But you do understand that Obama will CUT taxes for 95% of Americans right.

obamavsmccaintaxplan.jpg
 

Hsieh

Member
mckmas8808 said:
But you do understand that Obama will CUT taxes for 95% of Americans right.

obamavsmccaintaxplan.jpg

Yeah, but if he wants to implements his new programs and maintain that tax plan, he'll need to go into record deficit spending.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Hsieh said:
Yeah, but if he wants to implements his new programs and maintain that tax plan, he'll need to go into record deficit spending.


We're in record deficit spending on a harmful, pointless waste of life.
 

Ela Hadrun

Probably plays more games than you
AniHawk said:
In Audacity of Hope, Obama talks about how no one really got under his skin quite like Alan Keyes (for insinuating Obama wasn't a true Christian). The Keyes/Obama debates might be the best insight into how Obama deals with an opponent from a different ideology.

Probably doesn't hurt that Keyes comes off as a few types of crazy. I'd be surprised to see McCain's speaking ability come anywhere near either Obama or Keyes.

Holy shitballs, Alan Keyes is a twat. Yowza.

Edit: I can say twat, right?
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Hsieh said:
Yeah, but if he wants to implements his new programs and maintain that tax plan, he'll need to go into record deficit spending.


Not by raising taxes on the top 1% and raising the capital gains tax by 5-7%. There's tax hikes in Obama's plan too, but for most people they won't see these tax hikes in their everyday life.
 
godammit i need to stop watching fox news during this election, they're driving me nuts. i know this is nothing new, but these people are batshit insane. here's sean hannity arguing that community organizers aren't qualified to be president, and then somebody else chimes in about how palin is jesus christ in lipstick. and once any remotely sane person talks their voice is immedeately drowned out with that bullshit. i'm really going to get off on seeing these people (god willing) melt down in november.
 
heliosRAzi said:
It's not complicated, it's just WRONG.

[laugher]

Fallacy of logic, Keyes knows that.. that honestly was the funniest shit I have seen this week. Now I am watching all their debates. Getting me hyped to see the return of debating Obama in a few weeks!
 

mj1108

Member
Tyrone Slothrop said:
here's sean hannity arguing that community organizers aren't qualified to be president,

He's actually running with that and trying to make it a legit issue??? Good lord..... I know Sean Hannity is a bag of gas, but I thought he'd at least have a little common sense. I guess not.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
APF said:
I'm sure there are other whisper campaigns you can start though, like maybe she's racist against Eskimos or something

It's Inuit, you xenophobic monster.

"Those blubber-munching seal-killers can kiss my Alaskan ass."
 

Cloudy

Banned
How the hell did Keyes get to run for Senate? He is fukkin insane!

What sorry-ass Republicans did he beat out? :lol
 

Gruco

Banned
Cloudy said:
How the hell did Keyes get to run for Senate? He is fukkin insane!

What sorry-ass Republicans did he beat out? :lol
He didn't beat anyone - the initial challenge had some kind of marriage scandal (I don't remember the details) and dropped out. In the meantime Obama was growing insanely popular and nobody wanted to be the sacrificial lamb. After the 04 keynote, the Illinois Republicans just said "fuck it" and pulled his spotlight loving ass in from Maryland. I imagine a big part of it was just to get someone who could say crazy shit and piss Obama off all day long in the hopes that he'd have a meltdown or something.

My favorite moment was listening to him rant on and NPR interview about why gay people shouldn't be allowed to get married, because gay marriage was in and of itself exclusively a union of hedonism and an abomination, and the only reason other people were allowed to get married was because the possibility of having children offset the hedonism or something.

He didn't explain whether or not he favored a constitutional amendment to prohibit sterile marriage.
 

Tamanon

Banned
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/08/obama_to_palin_dont_mock_the_c.html

FARMINGTON HILLS, Mich. -- Sen. Barack Obama delivered an impassioned defense of the Constitution and the rights of terrorism suspects tonight, striking back at one of the biggest applause lines in Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin's speech to the GOP convention.

It was in St. Paul last week that Palin drew raucous cheers when she delivered this put-down of Obama: "Al-Qaeda terrorists still plot to inflict catastrophic harm on America and he's worried that someone won't read them their rights."

Obama had a few problems with that.

"First of all, you don't even get to read them their rights until you catch 'em," Obama said here, drawing laughs from 1,500 supporters in a high school gymnasium. "They should spend more time trying to catch Osama bin Laden and we can worry about the next steps later."

If the plotters of the Sept. 11 attacks are in the government's sights, Obama went on, they should be targeted and killed.

"My position has always been clear: If you've got a terrorist, take him out," Obama said. "Anybody who was involved in 9/11, take 'em out."

But Obama, who taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago for more than a decade, said captured suspects deserve to file writs of habeus corpus.

Calling it "the foundation of Anglo-American law," he said the principle "says very simply: If the government grabs you, then you have the right to at least ask, 'Why was I grabbed?' And say, 'Maybe you've got the wrong person.'"

The safeguard is essential, Obama continued, "because we don't always have the right person."

"We don't always catch the right person," he said. "We may think it's Mohammed the terrorist, but it might be Mohammed the cab driver. You might think it's Barack the bomb-thrower, but it might be Barack the guy running for president."

Obama turned back to Palin's comment, although he said he was not sure whether Palin or Rudy Giuliani said it.

"The reason that you have this principle is not to be soft on terrorism. It's because that's who we are. That's what we're protecting," Obama said, his voice growing louder and the crowd rising to its feet to cheer. "Don't mock the Constitution. Don't make fun of it. Don't suggest that it's not American to abide by what the founding fathers set up. It's worked pretty well for over 200 years."

He finished with a dismissive comment about his opponents.

"These people."
 
I still laugh about that Alan Keyes thing. I can't believe Republicans thought that Alan Keyes would be a good choice of opponent for ANYONE, let alone Barack Obama. I understand that they weren't trying to beat Obama, really, but Jesus, it's like they tried to pick the absolute worst, least viable candidate that they could.

We Illinois folk got such a chuckle from Alan Keyes, it was great.
 

Rugasuki

Member
Here's an interesting opinion piece on Obama asking why he never fights back even when he is being swiftboated.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/08/AR2008090801909.html?hpid=opinionsbox1?=1

Stephanopoulos vainly tried for some genuine reaction. In choosing Palin, did John McCain get someone who met the minimum test of being "capable of being president"? Everyone in America knows the answer to that. They know McCain picked someone so unqualified she has been hiding from the media because a question to her is like kryptonite to what's-his-name. But did Obama say anything like that? Here are his exact words: "Well, you know, I'll let you ask John McCain when he's on ABC." Boy, Palin will never get over that.

And how about this silly business that she's qualified for the presidency because she's commander in chief of the Alaska National Guard? Another softball. Another slow one, right down the middle. Obama reared back . . . and told Stephanopoulos that those questions should come from the media: "It's going to be your job and. . . ." Pathetic.
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
AniHawk said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG5u04Gbg0A

:lol

The awesome starts at 5:45, and the superawesome starts at 6:34.

At least the guy is justifying his position, as crazy as it is. I don't mind him too much, he's harmless. People with an ounce of intellect can actually take a position after hearing this debate. What I can't stand are lies that go unchallenged by the media, or controversies ignored.
 
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
I still laugh about that Alan Keyes thing. I can't believe Republicans thought that Alan Keyes would be a good choice of opponent for ANYONE, let alone Barack Obama.

i don't think they cared to win at that point. keyes wanted to run a vanity campaign, and they didnt have anybody else, so they were just like 'fuck it'
 
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
I still laugh about that Alan Keyes thing. I can't believe Republicans thought that Alan Keyes would be a good choice of opponent for ANYONE, let alone Barack Obama. I understand that they weren't trying to beat Obama, really, but Jesus, it's like they tried to pick the absolute worst, least viable candidate that they could.

We Illinois folk got such a chuckle from Alan Keyes, it was great.

The reason they picked Alan Keyes is the same reason why they got Palin
 

Cloudy

Banned
Rugasuki said:
Here's an interesting opinion piece on Obama asking why he never fights back even when he is being swiftboated.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/08/AR2008090801909.html?hpid=opinionsbox1?=1

Maybe he's worried about how America would receive an angry black man

That is why. Trust me, they've focus-grouped all this stuff and him getting angry and going off (possibly on a woman as well) will end up hurting him.

Especially when the dirt-bags at Fox News run it 24/7 with their spin..

The only thing they have to do better is respond aggressively to the lies. Their main plan is win on the issues. This economic climate should be perfect for that and that's what they're banking on. Whether America is ready for a black president is a different story...
 
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