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[Cloudy]

Ack...did you watch it online or on Fox? I still have to check it out.

It's on the website. I wish he someone would grill McCain like this..

http://www.foxnews.com/

 

[speculawyer]

Yes, and Gwen Ifill is a chick so obviously she'll be a mindless shill for someone who shares her genetic profile.

Like Samantha Bee, she's gonna let the little hood do the thinking. :lol

BTW, The daily show was fucking on fire the other week. I was catching up on the weekend and I almost had a hernia over the Mens bathroom @ MSP airport bit. :lol

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I don't mind for an instant helping someone who legitimately needs help, but yes, entitlement programs are a huge drain on our system. Fraud is the biggest issue I have. A huge portion of our funding comes from matching funds provided by the Fed's. The money/benefits are administered at the local level. Fraud is under reported, and not dealt with because local agencies will get their budgets cut if they take people off the welfare/medicaid/food stamp/fuel assistance rolls.

Honestly, that's more or less fair. I just kind of have a few points the comprise where people like myself fall. First of all, I'm not as staunchly for so-called entitlement programs as I am for other liberal ideals, though I do think at face value they have some merit, though admittedly, there are legitimate counterarguments. Still, I think one of my biggest resentments against these critiques is often a lack of hard quantification for how much waste we are being burdened with. I mean, how much money is going towards undeserving individuals, and what's the bottom line for the taxpayer?

But moving on, this isn't the only issue. On fiscal matters, I might skew slightly liberal, but I don't really turn staunchly liberal until you hit social and foreign policy issues. Everybody is different, but in my humble opinion, these issues far outweigh quibbling over some abuse of social programs. I might be more for universal health care than I am against it, but that's really not the focal point of my vote this year.

 

[mckmas8808]

Sarcasm?

Anyway, all of these recent developments are very interesting, and initially troubling. However, I think it's basically turning out to be a +3 or so convention boost for McCain. If the rules were different, and the incumbent party had their convention first, Obama would be enjoying the same kind of thing right now, I'd bet. Let's not forget that he had a pretty big post-convention bounce too, but it was short-lived thanks to the DNC and RNC being right up against each other, which is all kinds of stupid -- and something that really hasn't happened before, so you really can't rely on looking at polls the same way during this short period...

Also, I think Chuck Todd said it best -- if it was really 54-44% like good old Gallup suggests, this race would be done with. States like Pennsylvania would nearly be a lock for McCain right now. They're not.

If Obama wins this election, one must seriously question Gallup's polling methods.

New polling data seen on 538 tonight is also very interesting.

State/Pollster WAS          NOW            SWING
OH  Rasmussen  McCain +5    McCain +7      McCain +2
MI  PPP        Obama  +3    Obama  +1      McCain +2
PA  Rasmussen  Obama  +3    Obama  +2      McCain +1
VA  Rasmussen  McCain +1    McCain +2      McCain +1
VA  SurveyUSA  McCain +1    McCain +2      McCain +1
FL  Rasmussen  McCain +2    TIE            Obama  +2
CO  Rasmussen  McCain +1    Obama  +3      Obama  +4
====================================================
AVERAGE       McCain +0.6   McCain +0.7    McCain +0.1

Ohio really starting to go for McCain based on this data, which quite honestly I had figured would happen. I never have and probably never really will consider Ohio to be a state that Obama will likely get, but I like surprises.

Virginia is kind of disappointing, but again, the state going red is nothing shocking.

Colorado with +3 Obama is VERY interesting, and good news for any Obama supporter.

Florida as a tie is quite a surprise, to be honest I don't think it will mean anything in the long run, though.

McCain sneaking up on Obama in Michigan sucks, though. Hopefully Obama will get some points back there. He can't afford to lose that state.

DUDE! FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Remember this is DIRECTLY off the heels of a Republican convention.

The numbers will move back next week in most of those states.

 

[MassiveAttack]

I personally feel he'll give the better answers, but the public response will be that McCain comes out the winner because they already perceive him to be the guy better suited to foreign policy.

Yes, perpetual sabre rattling is the bedrock of any good US foreign policy. I can't wait to see McCain pick Lieberman as his Secretary of State so we'll finally get to see the full brunt of Israel's nuclear fireworks show.

 

[Gruco]

Ani, keep in mind that people expected the first debate between Kerry/Bush on foreign policy to go to Bush, and Kerry absolutely mopped the floor with him. Bush then managed to successfully recover by making jokes about timber companies in the later debates, thereby negating Kerry's domestic policy advantage. Or something.

Anyways, point, no like we can really pretend to know where this is going.

 

[GhaleonEB]

DUDE! FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Remember this is DIRECTLY off the heels of a Republican convention.

The numbers will move back next week in most of those states.

And all of those shifts are one or two points (except for Obama's in Colorado). If that's McCain's bounce, it's something to party about, not exactly stuff to worry about.

 

[Door2Dawn]

McCain offers nothing new on foreign relations, which got the US into Iraq to being with, and which Americans are not happy about.

Yeah but McCain is a POW so...

 

[AniHawk]

DUDE! FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Remember this is DIRECTLY off the heels of a Republican convention.

The numbers will move back next week in most of those states.

FL and CO numbers are weird though. Would they have had a bigger bump to Obama? Are they gonna have a bigger one in the future?

 

[APF]

Well that's a powerful and succinct summary. I wonder if I should keep reading.

Here: http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2008/09/08/breaking_news/doc48c1c8a60d6d9379155484.txt

 

[devilhawk]

First I've heard of this.. WTF?

Definitely gonna forward this.

If no Alaskan fund is set aside for rape kits, they bill the insurer. Many states due this.

 

[speculawyer]

I don't mind for an instant helping someone who legitimately needs help, but yes, entitlement programs are a huge drain on our system. Fraud is the biggest issue I have.

So . . . what do you think about the Iraq war/occupation? A massive entitlement program for foreigners that is a huge drain on our system and based on a complete fraud.

 

[Hootie]

It's available online.

Part 1
Part 2

Thanks, Part 2 was pretty intense, though mainly because O'Reilly is a bumbling idiot.

It's on the website. I wish he someone would grill McCain like this..

Bu-bu-bu-bu-but he was a POW!! We don't want to put him through anymore psychological pain!! POW POW POW POW POW POW POW POW POW MAVERICK MAVERICK MAVERICK

 

[speculawyer]

If no Alaskan fund is set aside for rape kits, they bill the insurer. Many states due this.

Uh . . . yeah . . .

While the Alaska State Troopers and most municipal police agencies have covered the cost of exams, which cost between $300 to $1,200 apiece, the Wasilla police department does charge the victims of sexual assault for the tests.

Nice rationalization try though.

 

[mckmas8808]

Virginia will not swing to Obama IMO. Practically, it may serve Obama's purpose to put it in play and make McCain use up campaign resources here though.

Okay as a Virginian this talk pisses me off from someone that wants Obama to win. Have you not seen the polling? Have you not seen the voter registering numbers in Virginia?

Do you realize that we have a DEM governor and one senator in the office now and Mark Warner WILL win the other senator seat? It's a complete toss up right now that has the possible markings on an Obama win.

 

[ronito]

So . . . what do you think about the Iraq war/occupation? A massive entitlement program for foreigners that is a huge drain on our system and based on a complete fraud.

Instead of having a well mannered discussion on Fraud and how it can curbed and the necessity to equal opportunity you jump to Iraq?

Dude, you don't make friends with salad.

 

[tanod]

It's a good thing so many victims (generally younger and lower-income women) of rape have such easy access to good and cheap health insurance.

Oh yeah........ -_-

 

[mckmas8808]

the NYT article drudge was talking about earlier is out:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26615658/



translation: Obama team is gearing up to fundraise hardcore in many states, upping the ante, pressing illinois realllllly hard for money, going to press all their big donors to donate to the general campaign now...



so that'll be a nice boost from the big donors, but he's still got to make up a bunch of cash in the next 6 weeks or so. apparently August was their best month ever, but, considering $55 million was the best month, and McCain got $47 million in August (not including RNC), they better have gotten a lot more than that...

but hey, at least the NYT's admits they have no clue how much Obama raised in August, only that the fundraising team is being kicked into super hard gear now

Okay like Dyack like draw the GAF line here and now. How much money is a successful fund raising month for August?

I say $60 million.

 

[devilhawk]

And charging the victim should be read as billed the insurer. Still that doesn't make it any better

 

[GhaleonEB]

Okay as a Virginian this talk pisses me off from someone that wants Obama to win. Have you not seen the polling? Have you not seen the voter registering numbers in Virginia?

Do you realize that we have a DEM governor and one senator in the office now and Mark Warner WILL win the other senator seat? It's a complete toss up right now that has the possible markings on an Obama win.

It's the same mentality that says Montana can't possibly be close. There are preconceptions about what states can be in play this time around based on past elections. I think folks are still not realizing how wide the map is or how many states are tilting blue this year.

The round of polling from swing states today is noteworthy in that it only had one or two point shifts from last month (same pollster, same state). This is a pretty tame shift to come in the shadow of McCain's big bounce in national polls.

I've read a few analysts look at the state polling today theorizing that much of McCain's bounce came in deep red states where Obama had no chance anyways - think Texas, Missippi, Georgia - rather than swing states; he shored up his base. The polling today seems to support that.

 

[mckmas8808]

He sounded tired. And I think he was stammering more than usual.

He knows what's Olberman's reputation is. He doesn't want to be labeled in the same line as Keith Olberman.

It wouldn't be good for him in the long run. Notice against O'Reilly he wasn't as careful with his words and didn't stammer as much.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

All the Palin dirt is fun, but I think it distracts too much. And too much of it ends up being exagerrated.

- McCain wants more military intervention like the mess we've got now
- McCain and other "fiscal conservatives" end up increasing debt
- McCain's choice of Palin is reackless and indicative of poor judgement
- McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time and was in the Senate when we got into our biggest messes.

All the Paain details are just fodder for argument and diffuse the main point-- that McCain is the worse choice for President.

 

[Keylime]

It's available online.

Part 1
Part 2

I love watching these. It just shows that Obama fucking knows the the hell he's talking about.

Get McCain under fire like that and watch him buckle so fucking hard. Palin? :lol

 

[Steve Youngblood]

All the Palin dirt is fun, but I think it distracts too much. And too much of it ends up being exagerrated.

- McCain wants more military intervention like the mess we've got now
- McCain and other "fiscal conservatives" end up increasing debt
- McCain's choice of Palin is reackless and indicative of poor judgement
- McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time and was in the Senate when we got into our biggest messes.

All the Paain details are just fodder for argument and diffuse the main point-- that McCain is the worse choice for President.

More accurately, the hearsay surrounding Palin distracts from parts of her history that are legitimately questionable and deserve further exploration and clarification. Aside from that, though, I agree.

 

[scorcho]

and from what i remember reading voter registration (and party self-affiliation for that matter) numbers haven't swayed many elections, especially not with the demographics that Democrats target (younger and minority voters).

 

[mckmas8808]

FL and CO numbers are weird though. Would they have had a bigger bump to Obama? Are they gonna have a bigger one in the future?

The logical answer would be yes. According to those numbers and the timing of the poll Obama should be leading very easily in CO and probably leading by a little or tying McCain in FL next week.

If the best McCain can do is lead Obama in VA by 1 or 2 points directly after the convention then that spells trouble for McCain.

It means that he can go right back down by 2 points within 10 or so days.

 

[mckmas8808]

And charging the victim should be read as billed the insurer. Still that doesn't make it any better

What if the victim doesn't have insurance? :/

 

[devilhawk]

What if the victim doesn't have insurance? :/

That's a good question. I imagine the city/state eats the cost. I don't know for sure though.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I often wonder how Republicans do it.

They find black guys that don't really like their race, women that don't like their gender... how do they do it?

 

[ronito]

What if the victim doesn't have insurance? :/

Then it's their own fault. Duh, in america you don't get sick without insurance and you especially don't get raped unless you're insured.

 

[mckmas8808]

and from what i remember reading voter registration (and party self-affiliation for that matter) numbers haven't swayed many elections, especially not with the demographics that Democrats target (younger and minority voters).

When you read that stuff did it have a black man running for office that energized the youth vote as much as Barack? I mean lets be honest here, predicting this race this November shouldn't be compared directly to past elections.

Obama is doing things that no other campaign in history has been able to do. The only thing that has to happen is for young and black people to vote.

If that happens Obama wins easily.

 

[Rugasuki]

It's available online.

Part 1
Part 2

I just watched part 2 and O'Reilly is a freaking joke. He exaggerated every policy of Obama's (50% tax rate suddenly becomes 39% etc.) Then after admitting that his 19% economic growth under Bush was "Bull" he goes on to keep pushing that argument for the rest of the segment. Also, when he sees he is losing an argument he shifts onto something else but makes it appear as though it was part of his original argument (see his discussion regarding income tax then arguing back that Obama is going to raise capital gains tax to 30% another major exaggeration.)

When it got down to it O'Reilly's main arguments were that Obama's policies were that they were class warfare socialist. I thought it was liberals who never looked at reality but argued only for the sake of argument. Yeah, let's raise taxes on people on minimum wage and at the poverty level just so we can claim that it isn't socialist or class warfare. Because the number one concern about the policies of the U.S. is that that not be seen as potentially socialist by conservative pundits.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

More accurately, the hearsay surrounding Palin distracts from parts of her history that are legitimately questionable and deserve further exploration and clarification. Aside from that, though, I agree.

Encapsulated in Point 3-- McCain's choice of her shows a lack of judgment. Don't spend time on the details, take it as fact that she's a terrible choice outside of vote-garnering and move on.

 

[WickedAngel]

What if the victim doesn't have insurance? :/

Then they deserve to be punished for their mistake. We wouldn't want those people leaching off of the tit of the tax payer when we've got bridges to build.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Encapsulated in Point 3-- McCain's choice of her shows a lack of judgment. Don't spend time on the details, take it as fact that she's a terrible choice outside of vote-garnering and move on.

I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[ronito]

Then they deserve to be punished for their mistake. We wouldn't want those people leaching off of the tit of the tax payer when we've got bridges to build.

Sacrifices must be made for the motherland. Country first!!

 

[Thunder Monkey]

When you read that stuff did it have a black man running for office that energized the youth vote as much as Barack? I mean lets be honest here, predicting this race this November shouldn't be compared directly to past elections.

Obama is doing things that no other campaign in history has been able to do. The only thing that has to happen is for young and black people to vote.

If that happens Obama wins easily.

That's the scary "if".

I've voted every chance I've gotten. We have so few ways of controlling our countries outcome as is... I'll take what I can get.

It's our others that scare me.

The African American vote I expect to be pretty much completely out in show. Historic moment, historic candidacy. The youth vote... that's the question mark. We got our choice this time. Instead of the stuffy emotionless candidate, we got the choice we seemed to rally behind. The one that inspired a lot of our ilk to vote in primaries and caucus for Christ sake.

I have hope that we'll show that level of dedication and support come election day... but you never know.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

That's the scary "if".

I've voted every chance I've gotten. We have so few ways of controlling our countries outcome as is... I'll take what I can get.

It's our others that scare me.

The African American vote I expect to be pretty much completely out in show. Historic moment, historic candidacy. The youth vote... that's the question mark. We got our choice this time. Instead of the stuffy emotionless candidate, we got the choice we seemed to rally behind. The one that inspired a lot of our ilk to vote in primaries and caucus for Christ sake.

I have hope that we'll show that level of dedication and support come election day... but you never know.

The youth vote is why Obama won in Iowa and many other places.

 

[HokieJoe]

But moving on, this isn't the only issue. On fiscal matters, I might skew slightly liberal, but I don't really turn staunchly liberal until you hit social and foreign policy issues. Everybody is different, but in my humble opinion, these issues far outweigh quibbling over some abuse of social programs. I might be more for universal health care than I am against it, but that's really not the focal point of my vote this year.

The abuse and overall mismanagement of the programs I work with are what makes me very skeptical that a universal health care system will be any less of a boondoggle. I know it's a complicated issue, and I don't want to whitewash the issue, but my experience leaves me with a decided lack of faith in government bureaucracy's ability to deal with something as large as universal health care. Moreover, there are privacy issues that I'd rather be dealt with at the private level (for liabilities sake) as opposed to a government administered program.

All that said, I realize that some changes need to be made to the system. For instance, too many hospitals are in competition with one another selling pricey services like MRI's, CAT scans, and like. Ideally, expensive machines like that should be situated regionally to minimize the competitive pressures. There are many other health care issues that need to be tackled head on (like prospective care), but I favor a very large ration of well reasoned debate before giving the Fed’s a mandate. I would prefer that a regulation be kept at the absolute minimum to improve the system and ultimately, promote better competition.

 

[mckmas8808]

I love watching these. It just shows that Obama fucking knows the the hell he's talking about.

Get McCain under fire like that and watch him buckle so fucking hard. Palin? :lol

Guys holy shit, how in the hell can Palin go toe to toe with O'Reilly on economics like that.

Obama held his own even though he is in the Lion's den. I got even more respect for Obama now after watching these O'Reilly interviews.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Also, from the snippets that I watched, Obama's reactions were sharper with Bill. I hope he carries that into the debates.

 

[ronito]

Guys holy shit, how in the hell can Palin go toe to toe with O'Reilly on economics like that.

Obama held his own even though he is in the Lion's den. I got even more respect for Obama now after watching these O'Reilly interviews.

To be fair, she doesn't believe in equal pay. So really she'd just have to answer 75% of the questions.

 

[mckmas8808]

That's the scary "if".

I've voted every chance I've gotten. We have so few ways of controlling our countries outcome as is... I'll take what I can get.

It's our others that scare me.

The African American vote I expect to be pretty much completely out in show. Historic moment, historic candidacy. The youth vote... that's the question mark. We got our choice this time. Instead of the stuffy emotionless candidate, we got the choice we seemed to rally behind. The one that inspired a lot of our ilk to vote in primaries and caucus for Christ sake.

I have hope that we'll show that level of dedication and support come election day... but you never know.

But to be fair Obama has rocked youtube and other social websites. He has shirts that sell out the wazoo to us youngins. And he has a major song that's been played I think 15 million times on youtube with Will i am.

And I honestly believe that us young people want change enough to get out and vote. I don't why I'm about to say this but like Obama I trust the American people this time.

 

[HokieJoe]

Okay as a Virginian this talk pisses me off from someone that wants Obama to win. Have you not seen the polling? Have you not seen the voter registering numbers in Virginia?

Do you realize that we have a DEM governor and one senator in the office now and Mark Warner WILL win the other senator seat? It's a complete toss up right now that has the possible markings on an Obama win.

Warner is a very popular politician. Kaine rode Warner's coat tails. Webb won a lark (Allen was a lock until his infamous rally comment). The war isn't popular in the suburbs of DC and Richmond, but I maintain that Virginia's base voter demographic is still quite conservative (relative to other states). But don't take me seriously, it's JMO.

 

[Byakuya769]

It's on the website. I wish he someone would grill McCain like this..

http://www.foxnews.com/

You sure about that? At his age that may mean a Palin for president campaign would result.

 

[polyh3dron]

I went to University of Toronto, it's not really a religious school.

What did Greta Van Susteran do to her hair? Man I miss these people since they left CNN, it's like a god damn reunion.

Xenu is Greta's hair stylist.

 

[mckmas8808]

Also, from the snippets that I watched, Obama's reactions were sharper with Bill. I hope he carries that into the debates.

And like I said with Olberman (a known liberal democrate) he didn't want to step on any toes that's already going to vote for him. Sorta like what Obama was like during the democrat debates.

But with O'Reilly he can go buck wild and go toe to toe, with quick back and forth (CLEAR) distinction. Like you said I hope we see that Obama in the debates. I have no reason to belief that we won't see that Obama.

When McCain lies about his record or positions I can see Obama acting the same as he has on O'Reilly's show.

 

[AniHawk]

But to be fair Obama has rocked youtube and other social websites. He has shirts that sell out the wazoo to us youngins. And he has a major song that's been played I think 15 million times on youtube with Will i am.

And I honestly believe that us young people want change enough to get out and vote. I don't why I'm about to say this but like Obama I trust the American people this time.

Still, somewhere in the back of my mind, the election from "Lisa's Substitute" plays over and over.

 

[Rugasuki]

And like I said with Olberman (a known liberal democrate) he didn't want to step on any toes that's already going to vote for him. Sorta like what Obama was like during the democrat debates.

But with O'Reilly he can go buck wild and go toe to toe, with quick back and forth (CLEAR) distinction. Like you said I hope we see that Obama in the debates. I have no reason to belief that we won't see that Obama.

When McCain lies about his record or positions I can see Obama acting the same as he has on O'Reilly's show.

I agree but one problem I foresee is that Palin and McCain will be so vague in their responses that it will be difficult to attack. Also, Biden has said that he doesn't know any of Palin's positions. This makes it harder for him to go into attack mode. He may try to attack her assuming what her position is and then she can just say that it is different and she will be interpreted as the winner.

 

[mckmas8808]

Warner is a very popular politician. Kaine rode Warner's coat tails. Webb won a lark (Allen was a lock until his infamous rally comment). The war isn't popular in the suburbs of DC and Richmond, but I maintain that Virginia's base voter demographic is still quite conservative (relative to other states). But don't take me seriously, it's JMO.

I noticed that you are a Hokie, so do you live in the Western part of VA? I live in the central part and Richmond will swept with Obama votes. I'm worried about the Tidewater region. The massive black vote competing versus the old military vote down there has me nervous. Basically I'm hoping that the Richmond city/counties and NoVa can run up the score in Virginia.