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[AndyIsTheMoran]

Bottom line: the standard of living is going to go down.

We can do this voluntarily, or involuntarily. I'm guessing that it will be the latter, and that whoever is in office at the time is going to feel the wrath of the voters.

this situation is very managable, and we can come back from this and improve our situation. I just hope the next President stresses to people that we all need to sacrifice for the good of our country. that we all are expected to give more and receive less. I swear its reasons like this that makes me wish Ron Paul would have won the primary. It seems like McCain and Obama are too scared to tell the people the things we need to sacrifice in order to improve our situation. We cant tax our way out of this either, its going to require very smart and savoy investing on the governments part, neither of which is either candidates forte.

 

[Blackhead]

Numble - First because I don't intend on the Supreme Court to grant marriage rights, I believe we can do it from a grass roots effort in state courts and eventually win the right on a federal level as well, though a federal solution should be a final step. Second because as I said a court has to have jurisdiction over an issue, and as long as we're dealing only with state law without presenting a federal question there's nothing for the Court to decide.

TDG - I think Barr has basically the right idea, yes. I'd say I probably agree with Barr about as much as is possible on economics.

Have you heard of Vote Pact?
So you can vote for the Libertarian Party...

What is a Vote Pact?

A Vote Pact is a way to support real alternatives without being weakened by a "spoiler" attack. VotePact is not vote swapping — it is small-d democracy.

By forming a VotePact, a disenchanted Democrat and a disenchanted Republican team up to vote for their preferred candidates, breaking out of their partisan boxes.

 

[speculawyer]

Whatever you do, don't look at the AOL straw poll

An AOL poll is a poll of self-selected idiots.

Spoiler

Which is sadly reflective of the American population.

 

[KHarvey16]

I say we give the religious people their institution - marriage - and make everything civil unions. You can go to a church if you want to get married but all legal benefits are covered by the civil union. That way we can stop hearing about this "man and woman only!" crap and treat people fairly.

 

[speculawyer]

Have you heard of Vote Pact?
So you can vote for the Libertarian Party...

I did a vote swap in 2004.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Palin says she would lead energy efforts as VP

Source: Reuters

VIENNA, Ohio, Sept 16 (Reuters) - U.S. Republican presidential candidate John McCain has outlined running mate Sarah Palin's job description if they win the White House -- and energy tops the list, just like it did for Dick Cheney in the Bush administration.

Palin, the Alaska governor whose addition to the Republican ticket has energized conservative supporters, said on Tuesday she and the Arizona senator had talked about her role if they beat Democrats Barack Obama and Joe Biden in the Nov. 4 election.

"John and I, we've discussed some new responsibilities that I'm going to have as vice president," Palin told a rally in the electoral battleground state of Ohio.

"First, I'll help to lead the mission of energy security."

Read more: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N16458753.htm

 

[Gaborn]

Hmmm...I'm not entirely sure I do agree with that's the whole reason. Certainly it can be A reason. I do think that the amateur investors , thank you Schwab, (and some professionals) thinking "how can I make as much money as I can this year?" along with the really greedy american definition and legal status of corporations (corporations have more rights than I do) probably have had a bigger influence than the exchange rate because only the smart traders would be worried about that.

Sure, but when the smart traders are getting burned by that mentality and the amateur investors are failing because... they're amateurs that's a good example of a perfect storm that can really hurt us. In this case of course we have smart banks making stupid risky loans to try to appeal to a previously untapped base of high risk clientele, same principle, different actors.

Tanned Greyface - I'm not a disenchanted Democrat or Republican. I'm a disgusted Libertarian.

 

[Tamanon]

Palin says she would lead energy efforts as VP

Source: Reuters

VIENNA, Ohio, Sept 16 (Reuters) - U.S. Republican presidential candidate John McCain has outlined running mate Sarah Palin's job description if they win the White House -- and energy tops the list, just like it did for Dick Cheney in the Bush administration.

Palin, the Alaska governor whose addition to the Republican ticket has energized conservative supporters, said on Tuesday she and the Arizona senator had talked about her role if they beat Democrats Barack Obama and Joe Biden in the Nov. 4 election.

"John and I, we've discussed some new responsibilities that I'm going to have as vice president," Palin told a rally in the electoral battleground state of Ohio.

"First, I'll help to lead the mission of energy security."

Read more: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N16458753.htm

Game over! Obama wins!

 

[ronito]

Sure, but when the smart traders are getting burned by that mentality and the amateur investors are failing because... they're amateurs that's a good example of a perfect storm that can really hurt us. In this case of course we have smart banks making stupid risky loans to try to appeal to a previously untapped base of high risk clientele, same principle, different actors.

So we agree.....we're fucked every which way til Friday.

 

[StoOgE]

I did a vote swap in 2004.

I did like 100 vote swaps in 2004 with nader supporters in Florida.

Spoiler

I should have done them in Ohio

 

[Gaborn]

So we agree.....we're fucked every which way til Friday.

Absolutely.

 

[ViperVisor]

Absolutely.

This needed to be a Tim and Eric GIF

 

[Blackhead]

Sure, but when the smart traders are getting burned by that mentality and the amateur investors are failing because... they're amateurs that's a good example of a perfect storm that can really hurt us. In this case of course we have smart banks making stupid risky loans to try to appeal to a previously untapped base of high risk clientele, same principle, different actors.

Tanned Greyface - I'm not a disenchanted Democrat or Republican. I'm a disgusted Libertarian.

Should have gone with their tagline, "how principled progressives work with conscientious conservatives" instead. It's really for people who engage in tactical voting instead of casting the ballot for the candidates they really want. It's got some comments on there about Barr and Ron Paul. Worth a look.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Bill Maher On the Maddow Show

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drKBhaaqGyw

 

[TDG]

TDG - I think Barr has basically the right idea, yes. I'd say I probably agree with Barr about as much as possible on economics.

So just to be clear, you don't actually agree with him about everything, you just agree with him as much as you think it's reasonable to hope for, correct?

Also which candidate do you consider to be the worst when it comes to economic policy?

 

[ronito]

This needed to be a Tim and Eric GIF

Gaborn and I should have manbabies to bring balance to the force.

 

[artredis1980]

Did i misread it. I thought
is a way of saying they dodged the bullet.

the rate died once Bank of America bought merill, new team, new management, the old deal is over

 

[Gaborn]

So just to be clear, you don't actually agree with him about everything, you just agree with him as much as you think it's reasonable to hope for, correct?

That's basically right. I'm pragmatic, I understand first that Barr won't win and if by some miracle he did everything he wanted wouldn't be implemented. But as it is he's so much closer in the platform he's running on to me than any of the other candidates that he makes the most sense. Now, if the LP had nominated Mary Ruwart instead I'd have to do a LOT more thinking as to who to support, cause it wouldn't be her.

Also which candidate do you consider to be the worst when it comes to economic policy?

That's a tough question, probably Obama because he's so much more expansive in many of his policies. McCain would be functionally similar and supporting much of the same regime, but Obama's policies are much more likely to grow the government more domestically (and McCain's would grow it more militarily) which I don't care for. The one thing I wish either McCain or Obama would say is they would reform the way funding for the Iraq war was issued. I've posted this link a couple times before but this is a major source of my displeasure with Bush's immoral (and over funded) war.

 

[Saint Gregory]

An AOL poll is a poll of self-selected idiots.

Spoiler

Which is sadly reflective of the American population.

Dude, that straw poll showed McCain leading in D.C. - A race that he's likely to lose by 90%. Nuf said.

 

[Krowley]

A spendthrift (also called profligate) is someone who spends money prodigiously and who is extravagant and recklessly wasteful.

Meh :lol ... You get my point.. Tightwads, whatever

My vocabulary has apparently failed me tonight twice.

 

[Cloudy]

Palin keeps lying. Even FauxNews pointing it out now:

http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/09/16/palin-accuses-obama-of-supporting-tax-hikes/

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Would somebody please post the igotthis image and the chart of convention bouce so I can show my wife? She's going into hopium withdrawal.

 

[StoOgE]

So I really think the McCain campaign died this week.

WaMu going down later this week would be the icing on the cake.

I'm not really happy about it because I hate seeing people in such a bad situation, and I work in the financial sector so there is a little bit of looking out for number 1 as well... but the silver lining is McCain has 1 economic talking point: Drill Baby Drill.

Oil is under 95 dollars a barrel. Gas will be 3 dollars a gallon by the end of the month. That talking point died.

Everything else is Obamas territory.

 

[infiniteloop]

Palin keeps lying. Even FauxNews pointing it out now:

http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/09/16/palin-accuses-obama-of-supporting-tax-hikes/

Palin taking questions tomorrow? hmmm....

 

[StoOgE]

Would somebody please post the igotthis image and the chart of convention bouce so I can show my wife? She's going into hopium withdrawal.

Why? The polls are moving back towards Obama right now. The state polls are lagging a bit, but it took an extra week for McCains bounce to show up in state polls as well. Obama is having a GREAT news cycle that looks to continue, and I expect him to do great in the debates. 2 weeks from now this campaign will look completely different.

 

[backbreaker65]

Obama's real missed oportunity with wall street collapse/banks.

He should be scaring the shit out of seniors, because if he had his way social security money would be so f'd up now.

 

[Diablos]

Dude, Stooge, Sarah Palin can SEE Alaska. Shut your mouth.

 

[HylianTom]

I Masturbated to Sarah Palin
(a John McCain ad)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0kGc6UEGVc

 

[mckmas8808]

So how long can Obama ride this reversal in the polls? Where will he end up before the debates start? Will he be up in the Gallup before the debate?

 

[TDG]

I see. While I disagree with most of your stances, you clearly have put a lot of thought into them, and you voice them intelligently, and I respect you for that.

However, I must ask, considering your ideas on how to bring about gay marriage, shouldn't you be actively working to get Obama elected, since an Obama presidency would better display the need for a Libertarian president as well as keep the libertarians working hard towards their goals, while Barr's election would actually delay that process?

 

[Blackhead]

Obama's real missed oportunity with wall street collapse/banks.

He should be scaring the shit out of seniors, because if he had his way social security money would be so f'd up now.

Where do you think the bailout money is coming from? The govt keeps dipping into the social security fund (as well as straight up running the printing press). The seniors should be scared shitless already.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

However, I must ask, considering your ideas on how to bring about gay marriage, shouldn't you be actively working to get Obama elected, since an Obama presidency would better display the need for a Libertarian president as well as keep the libertarians working hard towards their goals, while Barr's election would actually delay that process?

:lol

 

[qwertybob]

Palin taking questions tomorrow? hmmm....

planted audience members ftw

 

[mckmas8808]

Obama's real missed oportunity with wall street collapse/banks.

He should be scaring the shit out of seniors, because if he had his way social security money would be so f'd up now.

You have to take your time. Obama doesn't want to scare the shit out of people. It would go against his campaign.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Dude, Stooge, Sarah Palin can SEE Alaska. Shut your mouth.

Who are you to decide what she can or cannot see? You sexist pig.

 

[GhaleonEB]

So how long can Obama ride this reversal in the polls? Where will he end up before the debates start? Will he be up in the Gallup before the debate?

I think Gallups and Razz will be roughly tied when the first debate rolls around. Really not sure how it will go from there, since it's the foreign policy and the economy is what people are worried about right now.

 

[mckmas8808]

However, I must ask, considering your ideas on how to bring about gay marriage, shouldn't you be actively working to get Obama elected, since an Obama presidency would better display the need for a Libertarian president as well as keep the libertarians working hard towards their goals, while Barr's election would actually delay that process?

NOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Deleted member 17706]

A post a few pages back mentioned that Obama spoke about some concrete policy plans for the economy. Was that something that happened today? Is there a video?

 

[Gaborn]

I see. While I disagree with most of your stances, you clearly have put a lot of thought into them, and you voice them intelligently, and I respect you for that.

However, I must ask, considering your ideas on how to bring about gay marriage, shouldn't you be actively working to get Obama elected, since an Obama presidency would better display the need for a Libertarian president as well as keep the libertarians working hard towards their goals, while Barr's election would actually delay that process?

Well, Barr's election would show that we were ready for a libertarian president. You're right from a purely libertarian perspective Obama will be bad enough that it'll be another punch in the gut to many aspects libertarians believe function better through the private sector. Then again, McCain is not substantially better than Obama on most issues. It's really a wash if you compare Obama's economic policy and McCain's foreign policy. Both are bad on the other issue as well, but particularly bad on those issue respectively.

 

[GhaleonEB]

However, I must ask, considering your ideas on how to bring about gay marriage, shouldn't you be actively working to get Obama elected, since an Obama presidency would better display the need for a Libertarian president as well as keep the libertarians working hard towards their goals, while Barr's election would actually delay that process?

TDG wins the thread.

 

[ronito]

However, I must ask, considering your ideas on how to bring about gay marriage, shouldn't you be actively working to get Obama elected, since an Obama presidency would better display the need for a Libertarian president as well as keep the libertarians working hard towards their goals, while Barr's election would actually delay that process?

Damn you! And Gaborn and I were THIS close to manbabies!!!

 

[Tamanon]

A post a few pages back mentioned that Obama spoke about some concrete policy plans for the economy. Was that something that happened today? Is there a video?

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/amandascott/gG5XWF

Boom!

 

[GhaleonEB]

A post a few pages back mentioned that Obama spoke about some concrete policy plans for the economy. Was that something that happened today? Is there a video?

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/amandascott/gG5XWF

Full video and speech.

Edit: dammit!

 

[Gaborn]

Damn you! And Gaborn and I were THIS close to manbabies!!!

Forget the manbabies, we can just make sweet, sweet love.

 

[TheGrayGhost]

So... is Obama gonna win this thing? From what I'm hearing, he has an outstanding campaign on the ground.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Thanks much for the link guys!

 

[Gaborn]

So... is Obama gonna win this thing? From what I'm hearing, he has an outstanding campaign on the ground.

Right now the election is essentially tied, and depending on which poll you look at you can find either up by a point.

 

[Tamanon]

:lol Jon

"Did she win a contest? Was it a call-in?"

He really doesn't like Palin!

 

[Diablos]

So... is Obama gonna win this thing? From what I'm hearing, he has an outstanding campaign on the ground.

That he does.

He better win this thing, or I'm going to cry. Or come damn close.

 

[StoOgE]

Obama's real missed oportunity with wall street collapse/banks.

He should be scaring the shit out of seniors, because if he had his way social security money would be so f'd up now.

I agree. He really should. I mean, if McCain had his way, Social Security would be invested in the market by these same clowns that ruined our economy.