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PoliGAF Interim Thread of cunning stunts and desperate punts

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A

avatar299

Banned
LCGeek said:
I'm all for expanding the voting base. Lower the age limit a little or let the rest of world in considering our government loves sticking their nose in everyone else's business. :D :D
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How about we just stick with what we have. There is no reason to skrink the voting base, nor is there any reason to expand it, especially to outside control.
 
L

Learn2read

Member
avatar299 said:
You have to be joking. Define "Sanity" because I have an idea insanity is just a tool to attack those who disagree with you.

and do 4 insane people really matter
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Just like that craaaaazy Al Gore, or the kooooooky Howard Dean. Blegh, your side are masters at taking reality and turning it into supposed insanity.
 
L

LCGeek

formerly sane
avatar299 said:
How about we just stick with what we have. There is no reason to skrink the voting base, nor is there any reason to expand it, especially to outside control.
Click to expand...

My reason for expanision has to with the simple concept of how intrusive the government can be and the lives it affects. I think if you're old enough to work and to pay in to SS, go to prison as an adult, and other issues that affect teens your voice should count in the process. I was jesting mostly but the thought has crossed my mind a few times.
 
M

mclem

Member
avatar299 said:
Obama's plan is more expensive no matter what happen, but he will raise more revenue anyway. Learn to fucking read.
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I thought you were talking about cost relative to income (from taxes), which is where that conversation started.
 
J

Jason's Ultimatum

Member
Fragamemnon said:
GIF of the year.

Make no mistake-Obama is very unlikely to pursue the sort of deficit-killing that Clinton did-he has a different set of economists, and critical domestic pillars like his health care proposals and energy plan are going to cost money.

However, getting out of Iraq and getting rid of the Bush tax breaks is really going to provide some budgetary relief.
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This is what worries me the most. Will it be possible to have a disinflationary period under Obama, because yes, Clinton actually cut government spending, but Obama is only going to increase it.
 
B

Branduil

Member
If you think people vote for stupid reasons now wait until you see what happens if teens can vote.

Also, the idea of sanity requirements is one of the worst I've ever heard. It would almost immediately deteriorate into subjective politicizing.
 
L

Learn2read

Member
Jason's Ultimatum said:
This is what worries me the most. Will it be possible to have a disinflationary period under Obama, because yes, Clinton actually cut government spending, but Obama is only going to increase it.
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The how's and the where's though are hardly unimportant. GWB has raised spending not seen since LBJ, and for what?
 
A

avatar299

Banned
mamacint said:
Just like that craaaaazy Al Gore, or the kooooooky Howard Dean. Blegh, your side are masters at taking reality and turning it into supposed insanity.
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My side? Just because i don't want support reforming voting because Speculawyer found some stupid website, i have joined the other "side".

My reason for expanision has to with the simple concept of how intrusive the government can be and the lives it affects. I think if you're old enough to work and to pay in to SS, go to prison as an adult, and other issues that affect teens your voice should count in the process. I was jesting mostly but the thought has crossed my mind a few times.
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I can see the argument, but It just seems like a waste of time.
 
L

LCGeek

formerly sane
Branduil said:
If you think people vote for stupid reasons now wait until you see what happens if teens can vote.
Click to expand...

With that logic shouldn't it be applied to adults? No one say adults can't vote for the stupid reasons they choose. Besides most adults in my experience still have the mental capacity and maturity of teen, they just act self righteous about their age covering up the fact they haven't advanced since they entered high school.

Avatar it is a waste of time. I'm more for the amercian public actually putting money and effort in to a voting system where both parties are called for the voting fraud they do in various ways. I'm also for fixing the broke voting system we have in regards to population size at the federal level.
 
R

Rur0ni

Member
New Daily 9/20/08
Code: 
[U]Rasmussen Daily[/U]
48% Obama
47% McCain
[B]+1[/B] Obama

Obama gains a point in Rasmussen. They should have some state polling out later.
 
J

Jason's Ultimatum

Member
mamacint said:
The how's and the where's though are hardly unimportant. GWB has raised spending not seen since LBJ, and for what?
Click to expand...


Tough times ahead.


Also, I REALLY wish the media would talk more about how trickle down econimics doesn't work. They need to show pretty, colorful charts for the ignorant that for the past 100 years, a Democrat in the White House has been better for the economy than Republicans. Maybe that would get stupid people to realize Republican economics do not work.
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
mclem said:
How a possibility turns into a fact in one easy Republican Talking Point. Let's observe in detail:


Something might happen...


Therefore it will happen.
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it's avatar. his creates reality in his mind!
 
Mahadev

Mahadev

Member
avatar299 said:
You have to be joking. Define "Sanity" because I have an idea insanity is just a tool to attack those who disagree with you.

and do 4 insane people really matter
Click to expand...

Dude I gave you specific examples for people like them. If you believe that these people (Westboro, crazy religious lady with dead fetus) are functioning sane members of society that should be voting go ahead and say it but stop hiding behind discrimination accusations. Lunatics like them aren't hard to be found and marginilized.

And stop generalizing. I disagree with all religious people but that doesn't mean I want them all to be banned from voting. Only the crazy ones.
 
W

worldrunover

Member
Mahadev said:
Dude I gave you specific examples for people like them. If you believe that these people (Westboro, crazy religious lady with dead fetus) are functioning sane members of society that should be voting go ahead and say it but stop hiding behind discrimination accusations. Lunatics like them aren't hard to be found and marginilized.

And stop generalizing. I disagree with all religious people but that doesn't mean I want them all to be banned from voting. Only the crazy ones.
Click to expand...

My advice is to move to another country. You're treading on ridiculous ground that could never be quantified in any accurate way. It would be straight-up discrimination and unconstitutional.
 
P

pollo

Banned
Foxnews: "Fireside chats" in September

Big President Bush "RADIO ADDRESS"

Fucking embarassing fox. Trying to equate Bush to FDR...wtf
 
B

Branduil

Member
Mahadev said:
Dude I gave you specific examples for people like them. If you believe that these people (Westboro, crazy religious lady with dead fetus) are functioning sane members of society that should be voting go ahead and say it but stop hiding behind discrimination accusations. Lunatics like them aren't hard to be found and marginilized.

And stop generalizing. I disagree with all religious people but that doesn't mean I want them all to be banned from voting. Only the crazy ones.
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If anyone ever tried to implement your ideas there would be full-on civil war in this country.
 
J

Jason's Ultimatum

Member
Whoa. Reading some interesting things about "Reaganomics". The director of the Office of Management and Budget, who was a key architect of Reaganomics even said it himself that the 1981 tax cuts didn't help cause the recovery in 1983 and onwards:

Reagan's first director of the Office of Management and Budget, was a key architect of Reaganomics, but he didn't believe that the tax cut caused the boom. He wrote, "There was nothing new, revolutionary, or sustainable about [the growth of 1983-89]. The cycle of boom and bust had been going on for decades and ...its oscillations had reached the high end of the charts. That was all." [Stockman, The Triumph of Politics, p. 377.]
Click to expand...

http://www.bsherman.org/rushmore.html#1
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
pollo said:
Foxnews: "Fireside chats" in September

Big President Bush "RADIO ADDRESS"

Fucking embarassing fox. Trying to equate Bush to FDR...wtf
Click to expand...

The radio address is a weekly thing all Presidents do.Nobody but the news services ever listen to it, but you can subscribe to it on itunes!:p
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Jason's Ultimatum said:
This is what worries me the most. Will it be possible to have a disinflationary period under Obama, because yes, Clinton actually cut government spending, but Obama is only going to increase it.
Click to expand...

Well, let's be honest here.
Unless the economy starts to turn around, Obama will not be able to get some of his plans through the congress and senate.

On the other hand, some of them, like additional funding for alternative energies, and removing the tax break for Oil companies, will not depend on the economy.
 
Mahadev

Mahadev

Member
Branduil said:
If anyone ever tried to implement your ideas there would be full-on civil war in this country.
Click to expand...

The republicans have already done this but for completely illogical reasons. See ex-cons who aren't allowed to vote or people who had their homes foreclosured (no, I'm not kidding).
 
J

Jason's Ultimatum

Member
Suikoguy said:
Well, let's be honest here.
Unless the economy starts to turn around, Obama will not be able to get some of his plans through the congress and senate.

On the other hand, some of them, like additional funding for alternative energies, and removing the tax break for Oil companies, will not depend on the economy.
Click to expand...

I like Obama's plan on investing in the private sector. Reminds me of FDR's WPA program, which led to millions of new jobs.

I'd also encourage you guys to read this on how there were other factors that led to the booming economy in theh 80s. It wasn't Reagan's tax cuts that did that job:

http://www.bsherman.org/rushmore.html#1
 
P

phalestine

aka iby.h
this is probably old news, but I like the new feature on gallup where it shows a + or - along with an arrow showing the difference from yesterday.
 
A

artredis1980

Banned
AP-Yahoo News Poll: Obama's poll number would be 6-points higher had it not been for his race

Deep-seated racial misgivings could cost Barack Obama the White House if the election is close, according to an AP-Yahoo News poll that found one-third of white Democrats harbor negative views toward blacks — many calling them "lazy," "violent" or responsible for their own troubles.

The poll suggests that the percentage of voters who may turn away from Obama because of his race could easily be larger than the final difference between the candidates in 2004 — about two and one-half percentage points.

Certainly, Republican John McCain has his own obstacles: He's an ally of an unpopular president and would be the nation's oldest first-term president. But Obama faces this: 40 percent of all white Americans hold at least a partly negative view toward blacks, and that includes many Democrats and independents.

More than a third of all white Democrats and independents — voters Obama can't win the White House without — agreed with at least one negative adjective about blacks, according to the survey, and they are significantly less likely to vote for Obama than those who don't have such views.

Such numbers are a harsh dose of reality in a campaign for the history books. Obama, the first black candidate with a serious shot at the presidency, accepted the Democratic nomination on the 45th anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I Have a Dream" speech, a seminal moment for a nation that enshrined slavery in its Constitution.

"There are a lot fewer bigots than there were 50 years ago, but that doesn't mean there's only a few bigots," said Paul Sniderman, a political scientist at Stanford University, which partnered with The Associated Press and Yahoo News to conduct the exhaustive poll and analysis.

The pollsters set out to determine why Obama is locked in a close race with McCain even as the political landscape seems to favor Democrats. President Bush's unpopularity, the Iraq war and a national sense of economic hard times cut against GOP candidates, as does that fact that Democratic voters outnumber Republicans.

The findings suggest that Obama's problem is close to home — among his fellow Democrats, particularly non-Hispanic white voters. Just seven in 10 people who call themselves Democrats support Obama, compared to the 85 percent of self-identified Republicans who back McCain.

The survey also focused on the racial attitudes of independent voters because they are likely to decide the election.

Lots of Republicans harbor prejudices, too, but the survey found they weren't voting against Obama because of his race. Most Republicans wouldn't vote for any Democrat for president — white, black or brown.

Not all whites are prejudiced. Indeed, more whites say good things about blacks than say bad things, the poll shows. And many whites who see blacks in a negative light are still willing or even eager to vote for Obama.

On the other side of the racial question, the Illinois Democrat is drawing almost unanimous support from blacks, the poll shows, though that probably wouldn't be enough to counter the negative effect of some whites' views.

Race is not the biggest factor driving Democrats and independents away from Obama. Doubts about his competency loom even larger, the poll indicates. More than a quarter of all Democrats expressed doubt that Obama can bring about the change they want, and they are likely to vote against him because of that.

Three in 10 of those Democrats who don't trust Obama's change-making credentials say they plan to vote for McCain.

Still, the effects of whites' racial views are apparent in the polling.

Statistical models derived from the poll suggest that Obama's support would be as much as 6 percentage points higher if there were no white racial prejudice.

But in an election without precedent, it's hard to know if such models take into account all the possible factors at play.

The AP-Yahoo poll used the unique methodology of Knowledge Networks, a Menlo Park, Calif., firm that interviews people online after randomly selecting and screening them over telephone. Numerous studies have shown that people are more likely to report embarrassing behavior and unpopular opinions when answering questions on a computer rather than talking to a stranger.

Other techniques used in the poll included recording people's responses to black or white faces flashed on a computer screen, asking participants to rate how well certain adjectives apply to blacks, measuring whether people believe blacks' troubles are their own fault, and simply asking people how much they like or dislike blacks.

"We still don't like black people," said John Clouse, 57, reflecting the sentiments of his pals gathered at a coffee shop in Somerset, Ohio.

Given a choice of several positive and negative adjectives that might describe blacks, 20 percent of all whites said the word "violent" strongly applied. Among other words, 22 percent agreed with "boastful," 29 percent "complaining," 13 percent "lazy" and 11 percent "irresponsible." When asked about positive adjectives, whites were more likely to stay on the fence than give a strongly positive assessment.

Among white Democrats, one-third cited a negative adjective and, of those, 58 percent said they planned to back Obama.

The poll sought to measure latent prejudices among whites by asking about factors contributing to the state of black America. One finding: More than a quarter of white Democrats agree that "if blacks would only try harder, they could be just as well off as whites."

Those who agreed with that statement were much less likely to back Obama than those who didn't.

Among white independents, racial stereotyping is not uncommon. For example, while about 20 percent of independent voters called blacks "intelligent" or "smart," more than one third latched on the adjective "complaining" and 24 percent said blacks were "violent."

Nearly four in 10 white independents agreed that blacks would be better off if they "try harder."

The survey broke ground by incorporating images of black and white faces to measure implicit racial attitudes, or prejudices that are so deeply rooted that people may not realize they have them. That test suggested the incidence of racial prejudice is even higher, with more than half of whites revealing more negative feelings toward blacks than whites.

Researchers used mathematical modeling to sort out the relative impact of a huge swath of variables that might have an impact on people's votes — including race, ideology, party identification, the hunger for change and the sentiments of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's backers.

Just 59 percent of her white Democratic supporters said they wanted Obama to be president. Nearly 17 percent of Clinton's white backers plan to vote for McCain.

Among white Democrats, Clinton supporters were nearly twice as likely as Obama backers to say at least one negative adjective described blacks well, a finding that suggests many of her supporters in the primaries — particularly whites with high school education or less — were motivated in part by racial attitudes.

The survey of 2,227 adults was conducted Aug. 27 to Sept. 5. It has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 2.1 percentage points.
Click to expand...

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13658_Page2.html
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
syllogism said:
Obama will mention (mentioned?) that Mccain health insurance "gaffe" today in Florida

http://thepage.time.com/prepared-remarks-of-obama-in-daytona-beach-florida/
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The quote

There’s only one candidate who’s called himself “fundamentally a deregulator” when deregulation is part of the problem. My opponent actually wrote in the current issue of a health care magazine – the current issue – quote – “Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation.”

So let me get this straight – he wants to run health care like they’ve been running Wall Street. Well, Senator, I know some folks on Main Street who aren’t going to think that’s a good idea.
Click to expand...
 
J

Juice

Member
artredis1980 said:
AP-Yahoo News Poll: Obama's poll number would be 6-points higher had it not been for his race



http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13658_Page2.html
Click to expand...

*Shocking* Racist people exist and they're less likely to be voting for Obama.

The article spends all of page 2 back-peddling, just because the argument feels so uncouth in a newsroom.

Why tip-toe around it? Of course there are racists, and yeah, if the race is decided by <5%, it will have been decided by racists, just like the last two were decided by Nader supporters. Big deal.
 
A

AndresON777

shooting blanks
Juice said:
*Shocking* Racist people exist and they're less likely to be voting for Obama.

The article spends all of page 2 back-peddling, just because the argument feels so uncouth in a newsroom.

Why tip-toe around it? Of course there are racists, and yeah, if the race is decided by <5%, it will have been decided by racists, just like the last two were decided by Nader supporters. Big deal.
Click to expand...

Racists are republican anyway it makes no difference.

I live in Georgia btw
 
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