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PoliGAF Thread of First Debate Election 2008 - GAF doesn't know shit

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L

LuCkymoON

Banned
Deus Ex Machina said:
6zn1o9.png
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this picture deserves an Emmy.:D
 
R

Rhindle

Member
TDG said:
Hmm... nothing's working... down big in the polls... hey, let's go back to the same tired line of attack that we've used for years!

Even the McCain campaign is smarter than that.
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They haven't yet played the culture wars/wedge issues card NEARLY as hard as they could.

I'm not saying it will work. But in the absense of other other options, you use the one that remains available to you. That's what Kristol is saying.

I do expect this to get ugly over the next 30 days. I hope I'm wrong.
 
M

mj1108

Member
FlightOfHeaven said:
What happened to McCain? That McCain was awesome.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

Just further evidence that the McCain of 2008 is nothing like the McCain of 2000.

Rhindle said:
They haven't yet played the culture wars/wedge issues card NEARLY as hard as they could.

I'm not saying it will work. But in the absense of other other options, you use the one that remains available to you. That's what Kristol is saying.

I do expect this to get ugly over the next 30 days. I hope I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

I expect we'll see something similar to what happened with Hillary's campaign where they just start throwing anything and everything to see if anything will stick no matter how ridiculous it is.
 
D

Door2Dawn

Banned
If McCain really wants to win this on the economy then he needs to make a complete overhaul of his policies,mainly taxes. Right now.

I'm pretty sure there are some smart people on his team,why don't they try new ideas to fix this economy? Why do they just hammer on these stupid little lines like "we need to cut spending and earmarks" or "lolol hes going to raise you're taxes!1!!" It clearly isnt working.
 
T

Trakdown

Member
Rhindle said:
They haven't yet played the culture wars/wedge issues card NEARLY as hard as they could.

Not saying it will work. But in the absense of other other options, you use the one that remains available to you.

I do expect this to get ugly over the next 30 days. I hope I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

Obama's been really good at bringing the debate right back to economics. Wright is not going to have any more traction that it did by the end of the primaries.

They can try anything they want, but until they can win on substance and McCain can seem a little less cranky in his debates, they're fucked.
 
A

artredis1980

Banned
Bill Clinton : I wont call Obama a great man like McCain

Former President Bill Clinton was hesitant to characterize Barack Obama as a "great man" Sunday, a phrase he had no qualms using last week to describe Obama's rival John McCain.

Clinton told NBC's Tom Brokaw that it was only earlier this month in Harlem that he and Obama had their "first conversation." He said he had spoken with Obama before, but only in passing.

Clinton then explained what he meant in characterizing McCain as a "great man."

"I think his greatness is that he keeps trying to come back to service without ever asking people to cut him any slack or feel sorry for him or any of that stuff because he was a POW," Clinton said of the Republican presidential nominee.

Clinton, who successfully ran his own 1992 presidential campaign on the now commonly used phrase "it's the economy, stupid," said that he believed the current economic crisis "left [Obama] in a position of leadership that he's now in."

Clinton said he thought Obama "saw and imagined" how the economic situation could develop.

"And I think that the rest of us should admire that. That's a big part of leadership, being able to sense, as well as see the future," he said.

Clinton said he and Obama are developing a "really good relationship," and the Democratic nominee has the potential for greatness. Explaining, he said Obama has many personal accomplishments, but none that exemplify his greatness to the country.

"When he becomes president, he'll be doing things for the American people and for the world and he is-and the greatness will then become apparent because of the good he'll do…That's what I very much believe is going to happen."

Some have questioned Bill Clinton's support for Obama following the protracted primary battle between the Illinois senator and Hillary Clinton. The former president praised Obama during his speech at the Democratic National Convention and declared Obama "ready to be president of the United States," as both sides tried to bring an end to the "Clinton-Obama rift" storyline.

Clinton himself was among the most outspoken critics of Obama's readiness during the primary season.

The reason it has taken him so long to hit the trail for Obama was the need for him to return to work on his foundation after the long primary season, Clinton explained Sunday.

He is expected to campaign for Obama in Florida, Ohio, northeast Pennsylvania, and Nevada after the Jewish holidays.

"I'm going to do my very best to do every single thing he asks me to do," Clinton said.
Click to expand...

This should tell you where Bill's priorities lie

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/28/clinton-hesitant-to-call-obama-a-great-man/
 
T

Tyrone Slothrop

Banned
FlightOfHeaven said:
What the fuck, McCain? I suspect that he lost track of the reason why he wants the Presidency, and Bush's advisers have taken over his campaign.

He's effectively sold himself to get what he wants, forgetting what he stood for.
Click to expand...

but he's a maverick
 
T

TDG

Banned
McCain should be shouting from the rooftops that he'll give bigger tax breaks than Obama, and that Obama will tax and spend irresponsibly. This should be his number one line of attack, because it's been effective in every election to date. Instead, he wastes his time bitching about earmarks and porkbarrel spending, which is ineffective for two reasons:
1. It doesn't sound like much of a danger, and
2. I'm willing to bet that 75% of America, no 90% of America has no fucking clue what earmarks are.

If I were on McCain's campaign, I'd be telling him to shut the fuck up about his little anti-earmark crusade, and to hit the point that McCain "will deliver more tax relief than Obama, and will not create huge government programs to waste taxpayer money as Obama will" over and over again.
 
E

electricpirate

Member
McCain can get as dirty as he wants, he's cached in almost all of his credibility to be 5 points down in late september.

Unlike Kerry, Obama has a chance to KEEP IT CLEAN. Seeing the mini rash of semi deserved op eds on how "Obama was suddenly equivalent to McCain in terms of lies." Demonstrates that Obama's High minded campaign actually has sunk in for a lot of people. OBama doesn't make as many attacks, but they stick more than McCain's. Unlike kerry, who hoped (har har) that the highroad would save him, Obama has an actual impetus to take it.

MOre than anything, that's why Obama is edging out those post debate polls. If McCain had stayed "the strait talker" his condescending bullshit would have been good enough. Instead though, McCain looked petulant, and Obama looked presidential. Credibility is a powerful tool.
 
B

Bishman

Member
TDG said:
McCain should be shouting from the rooftops that he'll give bigger tax breaks than Obama, and that Obama will tax and spend irresponsibly. This should be his number one line of attack, because it's been effective in every election to date. Instead, he wastes his time bitching about earmarks and porkbarrel spending, which is ineffective for two reasons:
1. It doesn't sound like much of a danger, and
2. I'm willing to bet that 75% of America, no 90% of America has no fucking clue what earmarks are.

If I were on McCain's campaign, I'd be telling him to shut the fuck up about his little anti-earmark crusade, and to hit the point that McCain "will deliver more tax relief than Obama, and will not create huge government programs to waste taxpayer money as Obama will" over and over again.
Click to expand...
Obama counters that he will cut taxes for 95% of Americans. And McCain's health care plan will tax the middle class.
 
D

Door2Dawn

Banned
TDG said:
McCain should be shouting from the rooftops that he'll give bigger tax breaks than Obama, and that Obama will tax and spend irresponsibly. This should be his number one line of attack, because it's been effective in every election to date. Instead, he wastes his time bitching about earmarks and porkbarrel spending, which is ineffective for two reasons:
1. It doesn't sound like much of a danger, and
2. I'm willing to bet that 75% of America, no 90% of America has no fucking clue what earmarks are.

If I were on McCain's campaign, I'd be telling him to shut the fuck up about his little anti-earmark crusade, and to hit the point that McCain "will deliver more tax relief than Obama, and will not create huge government programs to waste taxpayer money as Obama will" over and over again.
Click to expand...
The problem with that is that the policy doesn't match the rhetoric.
 
E

electricpirate

Member
Door2Dawn said:
If McCain really wants to win this on the economy then he needs to make a complete overhaul of his policies,mainly taxes. Right now.

I'm pretty sure there are some smart people on his team,why don't they try new ideas to fix this economy? Why do they just hammer on these stupid little lines like "we need to cut spending and earmarks" or "lolol hes going to raise you're taxes!1!!" It clearly isnt working.
Click to expand...

The thing really needed to ensure long term health of our economy at this point is new, effective regulation in the financial markets. McCain has been so damn anti regulation, he can't really take the correct position without bascilly handing the point to Obama.

Someone mentioned he should go super libertarian, the problem with that, is it goes against some of his other plans. How does he justify a new libertarian proposal with high risk pools paid for by tax payer dollars?

He's pretty much fucked on the economy.
 
T

ToxicAdam

Member
It's hard to get excited for an election, when both candidates are part of the problem. They are members of one of the least popular, least effective house/congress of our lifetimes. I guess Obama gets a nod because he has less stink on him ... but there is nothing in his makeup that makes me think he isn't just more of the same.

Back in February (when Obama began to pull away), I predicted that this race would come down to the wire and it will be the old farts in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Ohio that will decide the race. I still believe that to be true. Although Obama's demographics and appeal in other parts of the US could blindside me as a new coalition of voters is formed.
 
M

MoxManiac

Member
FlightOfHeaven said:
When he pulled out that brochure, it was a "oh, snap, no he didn't" moment.

Hell, just watching him, I was cheering for McCain.

What the fuck, McCain? I suspect that he lost track of the reason why he wants the Presidency, and Bush's advisers have taken over his campaign.

He's effectively sold himself to get what he wants, forgetting what he stood for.
Click to expand...

And in the process of selling himself, he obviously -isn't- going to get what he wants (elected)

Pretty shitty situation.

I do feel bad for him in the sense that he obviously wants/wated to be president and this is likely his last chance age-wise, but he brought all of this on himself.
 
K

kevm3

Member
ToxicAdam said:
It's hard to get excited for an election, when both candidates are part of the problem. They are members of one of the least popular, least effective house/congress of our lifetimes. I guess Obama gets a nod because he has less stink on him ... but there is nothing in his makeup that makes me think he isn't just more of the same.

Back in February (when Obama began to pull away), I predicted that this race would come down to the wire and it will be the old farts in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Ohio that will decide the race. I still believe that to be true. Although Obama's demographics and appeal in other parts of the US could blindside me as a new coalition of voters is formed.
Click to expand...

Who's a candidate that you feel will provide real change? Ron Paul?
 
C

Crayon Shinchan

Aquafina Fanboy
ToxicAdam said:
It's hard to get excited for an election, when both candidates are part of the problem. They are members of one of the least popular, least effective house/congress of our lifetimes. I guess Obama gets a nod because he has less stink on him ... but there is nothing in his makeup that makes me think he isn't just more of the same.

Back in February (when Obama began to pull away), I predicted that this race would come down to the wire and it will be the old farts in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Ohio that will decide the race. I still believe that to be true. Although Obama's demographics and appeal in other parts of the US could blindside me as a new coalition of voters is formed.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but you're super pro republican anyway. Vehemently so. Even among a board of informed people, you continue to persist in this 'equality', when the facts and reality show anything but equality between the candidates.

Given that you've shifted from supporting republican to abandoning the current position... it's safe to say that we (liberal poligaf) can claim some sort of victory out of this!
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
My god, Kristol actually thinks Palin is a master politician being held back by McCain's aids. Talk about putting your head in the mud. Then again I'm not sure why I'm surprised in the slightest by that, it is Kristol afterall.
 
S

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
grandjedi6 said:
My god, Kristol actually thinks Palin is a master politician being held back by McCain's aids. Talk about putting your head in the mud. Then again I'm not sure why I'm surprised in the slightest by that, it is Kristol afterall.
Click to expand...


I believe we're heading into "Predict Palin will win the VP debate so that if some crazy shit happens and she does, I can be right" phase of the pre vp debate hype.

Palin is going in the most under of all the underdogs, if a miracle happens, everyone who was "right" now can be as smug as they want for the following week.
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
sp0rsk said:
I believe we're heading into "Predict Palin will win the VP debate so that if some crazy shit happens and she does, I can be right" phase of the pre vp debate hype.

Palin is going in the most under of all the underdogs, if a miracle happens, everyone who was "right" now can be as smug as they want for the following week.
Click to expand...
I predict that Obama will win North Dakota in the election. All this time his aids have been holding him back with their pessimism. Now that Obama has pulled his resources out of the state his chances of winning will surely skyrocket! But just make sure you ignore any polling data that suggests contrary, that is only the conservative media trying to sway the election.
 
K

kevm3

Member
The Palin you saw on Couric was the worst Palin IMO. We're not going to get a Palin that bad. I think we'll get a Palin that sticks to the talking points as much as possible, and will eventually come out looking unimpressive, but somewhat solid/coherent. For me, the 'format' of the debate is the biggest question. Will they be able to respond to each other? If not, then just as long as Palin can deliver some canned answer to most of the big questions, she'll be alright. I think the biggest factor against Palin is time. She has all the pressure on her, and if the 10 to 15 minutes of the Couric interview seemed like days, this debate will seem like a day short of eternity.

I think Biden will deliver a much better performance, obviously, but I think the biggest thing he has to avoid is any gaffes. I'm not really expecting the slaughter that some of you guys are. It may happen, but I'm cushioning myself against disappointment. I just want a very solid, workmanlike performance from Joe than anything... Just a guy that shows he lends credibility to Obama's judgment of picking him by displaying his solid grasp of issues.
 
T

Tyrone Slothrop

Banned
i saw an interview filmed shortly before palin was picked, i guess she was auditioning for the job or something, because she talked about obama's VP pick. she seemed to really have Biden's number on some of his more questionable legislations so i'm kind of worried that she'll have a solid line of attack in this regard. If Biden's rehearsal team is smart, they're factoring that into the mock debates.
 
F

Fragamemnon

Member
Mandark said:
More like Kristol will say she won the debate no matter how it plays out.
Click to expand...

Bill Kristol was one of the dudes who got on the Palin veep selection months and months ago. He's also a raging neoconservative and a retard, so it's no surprise that McCain was probably heavily influenced by some of the noise he and others in his circle were making about her.
 
K

Killthee

helped a brotha out on multiple separate occasions!
Tyrone Slothrop said:
i saw an interview filmed shortly before palin was picked, i guess she was auditioning for the job or something, because she talked about obama's VP pick. she seemed to really have Biden's number on some of his more questionable legislations so i'm kind of worried that she'll have a solid line of attack in this regard. If Biden's rehearsal team is smart, they're factoring that into the mock debates.
Click to expand...
Link please.
 
M

mj1108

Member
Mandark said:
More like Kristol will say she won the debate no matter how it plays out.
Click to expand...

That's a given.

The regular GOP talking heads will all say she "won" or "did a tremendous job" no matter how hard she falls.

I'm sure Hannity is already prepping remarks on how great Palin did.
 
S

SouthernDragon

Member
ToxicAdam said:
It's hard to get excited for an election, when both candidates are part of the problem. They are members of one of the least popular, least effective house/congress of our lifetimes. I guess Obama gets a nod because he has less stink on him ... but there is nothing in his makeup that makes me think he isn't just more of the same.

Back in February (when Obama began to pull away), I predicted that this race would come down to the wire and it will be the old farts in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Ohio that will decide the race. I still believe that to be true. Although Obama's demographics and appeal in other parts of the US could blindside me as a new coalition of voters is formed.
Click to expand...

If I'm not mistaken, didn't this Democratic congress get everything done except get out of Iraq?

I seem to remember Hitokage or someone post a list of the 2006 Congress' achievements. They were numerous.
 
R

ryutaro's mama

Member
kevm3 said:
The Palin you saw on Couric was the worst Palin IMO. We're not going to get a Palin that bad. I think we'll get a Palin that sticks to the talking points as much as possible, and will eventually come out looking unimpressive, but somewhat solid/coherent. For me, the 'format' of the debate is the biggest question. Will they be able to respond to each other? If not, then just as long as Palin can deliver some canned answer to most of the big questions, she'll be alright. I think the biggest factor against Palin is time. She has all the pressure on her, and if the 10 to 15 minutes of the Couric interview seemed like days, this debate will seem like a day short of eternity.

I think Biden will deliver a much better performance, obviously, but I think the biggest thing he has to avoid is any gaffes. I'm not really expecting the slaughter that some of you guys are. It may happen, but I'm cushioning myself against disappointment. I just want a very solid, workmanlike performance from Joe than anything... Just a guy that shows he lends credibility to Obama's judgment of picking him by displaying his solid grasp of issues.
Click to expand...

I can mostly agree with this post but I still think the length of the debate will eventually do her in, with or without Biden "slaughtering" her.
 
S

Souldriver

Member
Holy fucking shiiiiiiiiii

Let me express my concerns, amazement, and disbelief that my countries government (Belgium) just had to organize more or less the same thing as what I've been reading about on here since last week. They just agreed on a bail-out for the largest Belgian bank, Fortis.

3 days ago I didn't even know Fortis was in trouble. This is completely surreal, and I'm glad I can share it with gaf, where a lot of American people are in the same position.
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Souldriver said:
Holy fucking shiiiiiiiiii

Let me express my concerns, amazement, and disbelief that my countries government (Belgium) just had to organize more or less the same thing as what I've been reading about on here since last week. They just agreed on a bail-out for the largest Belgian bank, Fortis.

3 days ago I didn't even know Fortis was in trouble. This is completely surreal, and I'm glad I can share it with gaf, where a lot of American people are in the same position.
Click to expand...
If it makes you feel any better our financial problems probably caused yours.
 
K

Krowley

Member
Souldriver said:
Holy fucking shiiiiiiiiii

Let me express my concerns, amazement, and disbelief that my countries government (Belgium) just had to organize more or less the same thing as what I've been reading about on here since last week. They just agreed on a bail-out for the largest Belgian bank, Fortis.

3 days ago I didn't even know Fortis was in trouble. This is completely surreal, and I'm glad I can share it with gaf, where a lot of American people are in the same position.
Click to expand...

I guess it's spreading pretty fast. When we go down, we tend to drag everybody else with us.

The bad part is, if you guys start going down, you'll drag us even further down, and then we'll drag you even further down and it becomes a huge worldwide death spiral. Very ugly stuff.
 
S

Souldriver

Member
grandjedi6 said:
If it makes you feel any better our financial problems probably caused yours.
Click to expand...
I know. Hey, thanks for that! :p

I'd say our problems right now are peanuts compared to yours. The bailout is only 16.2 billion dollars, which is a fraction of the US bail-out plan. But Belgium is also just a fraction the (economic) size of the US. It's fucking shitty, and most people here don't even seem to realize it.

And I'm fairly sure this is just the beginning. Chain reaction and all... /doom thinking
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
Souldriver said:
Holy fucking shiiiiiiiiii

Let me express my concerns, amazement, and disbelief that my countries government (Belgium) just had to organize more or less the same thing as what I've been reading about on here since last week. They just agreed on a bail-out for the largest Belgian bank, Fortis.

3 days ago I didn't even know Fortis was in trouble. This is completely surreal, and I'm glad I can share it with gaf, where a lot of American people are in the same position.
Click to expand...

Weird, wasn't Fortis the bank that also took all of its money out of the US markets because it said there would be a financial collapse here?
 
P

permutated

Banned
I really hated how much McCain smiles when he just talks over Obama, otherwise I think that (objectively speaking) there weren't enough solid new points made on either side, and McCain spent too much time trying to discredit Obama on stuff that was simply a manipulation of the truth.

Regardless, I'm happy I watched the full debate, though I wish there weren't so many of the "once upon a time" stories. The bracelet bit was corny and unnecessary (on both sides). Obama nearly forgetting the soldiers name & McCain obviously just reciting lines showed me that neither of them truly cared.
 
S

Souldriver

Member
Tamanon said:
Weird, wasn't Fortis the bank that also took all of its money out of the US markets because it said there would be a financial collapse here?
Click to expand...
It's pretty weird, considering Fortis was seen as "safe" just a week ago.

And the really ironic stuff: Fortis Bank is the successor of the General Bank. That last one was a government owned bank that's been privatized. It's coming full circle now.
 
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