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[PantherLotus]

Leading question: how many countries in the Middle East have nuclear weapons?

 

[GhaleonEB]

It's what we do. I say keep doing it. They are our friends. And we need them in the region.

They are a nuclear power. They have a massive military budget, even after US aid is backed out. They are fully capable of defending themselves. And if another country invaded Israel, they'd have the US military machine come down in their defense.

And "it's what we do" is the single worst possible way to defend something. You are saying we should do it because we're doing it. Apply that logic to anything you want us to stop doing.

Why do you keep polluting your mind with cable news? It's like watching Maury or Dr. Phil and pretending like you are informed about with the social issues of the day.

Holy shit when did you get back? And posting something I agree with, no less.

 

[Tom_Cody]

Leading question: how many countries in the Middle East have nuclear weapons?

Hello Helen Thomas.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

PHOTOS: Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad faces pro-reform opposition in upcoming June 12th election

In this photo released by Islamic Republic of Iranian Broadcasting, the main pro-reform candidate, Mir Hossein Mousavi, attends a TV debate between him and Iran's hard-line President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, unseen, in Tehran, Iran, on Wednesday, June 3, 2009. Mousavi accused President Ahmadinejad of driving Iran toward 'dictatorship' and hurting its standing in the world by questioning the Holocaust, during a rare and unprecedentedly raucous election debate Wednesday. (AP photo/Islamic Republic of Iranian Broadcasting,
Dehghan, HO)

In this photo released by Islamic Republic of Iranian Broadcasting, the main pro-reform candidate, Mir Hossein Mousavi, attends a TV debate between him and Iran's hard-line President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, unseen, in Tehran, Iran, on Wednesday, June 3, 2009. Mousavi accused President Ahmadinejad of driving Iran toward 'dictatorship' and hurting its standing in the world by questioning the Holocaust, during a rare and unprecedentedly raucous election debate Wednesday. (AP photo/Islamic Republic of Iranian Broadcasting, Dehghan, HO)

Supporters of the leading reformist Iranian presidential candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi hold his posters during an electoral campaign rally in Tehran, Iran, Wednesday, June 3, 2009. Mousavi is President Ahmadinejad's main pro-reform rival for the June 12 elections. The name of the candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi is written on the poster in the Farsi language. (AP Photo/Vahid Salemi)

Supporters of former Prime Minister and Iran's upcoming presidential election candidate Mirhossein Mousavi on left and supporters of the Iranian President and presidential candidate Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on right shout slogans in support of their favorite candidates during a rally in front of the University of Tehran, June 3, 2009. REUTERS/Morteza Nikoubazl (IRAN POLITICS ELECTIONS)

Iranian supporters of reformist presidential candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi hold his picture in Tehran on June 2, 2009. With more than 60 percent of Iranians born after their nation's Islamic revolution in 1979, the under-30 vote will be crucial in the June 12 election in which hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is being challenged by three fiercely critical rivals. (AFP/File/Atta Kenare)

An Iranian supporter of reformist presidential candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi distributes posters and flyers in Tehran on June 3, 2009. With more than 60 percent of Iranians born after their nation's Islamic revolution in 1979, the under-30 vote will be crucial in the June 12 election in which hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is being challenged by three fiercely critical rivals. (AFP/File/Atta Kenare)

A supporter of Iranian presidential candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi holds his picture during a demonstration to show her support for the former premier outside Tehran University in the Iranian capital. Mousavi accused hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of "undermining" the Islamic republic's dignity during his four-year term, in a television debate ahead of next week's presidential poll. (AFP/Atta Kenare)

Iran's hard-line President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, center, greets his supporters after attending a TV debate with main pro-reform candidate, Mir Hossein Mousavi, unseen, in Tehran, Iran, on Wednesday, June, 3, 2009. Mousavi accused Ahmadinejad of driving Iran toward 'dictatorship' and hurting its standing in the world by questioning the Holocaust, during a rare and unprecedentedly raucous election debate Wednesday. (AP photo)

Iranian supporters of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad hold his picture (C-R) and portraits of Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei during a campaign rally in Tehran. Khamenei fired off a new salvo against the United States, saying it was detested across the Middle East, just as President Barack Obama held out his hand to Tehran. (AFP/Atta Kenare)

 

[ultim8p00]

stuff

Wow, so much imagery in those pics. Look at Mousavi's supporters, then look at Ahmadinejad's supporters.

 

[PantherLotus]

^ wow.

More than half of all Iran's citizens are under the age of 30.

 

[cntr]

A woman holds an US President Barack Obama doll as she attends the public viewing of his speech in the eastern German city of Dresden

...hey, I remember this!

 

[reilo]

Take today's report, which shows that the economy shed some 345,000 jobs in May and that the unemployment rate is now at 9.4%. The Republican National Committee quickly pounced on those numbers, noting that the U.S. economy has lost more than 2.1 million jobs since President Obama took office. “Today’s unemployment numbers confirm that the Democrat economic stimulus bill is not creating the jobs President Obama promised," RNC Chairman Michael Steele said in a statement.

:lol

Reading Steele's comments from time to time, makes him sound like a troll in PoliGAF.

To put those 2.1 million lost jobs into perspective, however, the U.S. economy lost nearly 3.1 million jobs during Bush's final year as president (Jan. 2008 to Dec. 2008). That means two things: 1) monthly job losses have been growing at a faster clip than in 2008, and 2) the economy was shedding jobs well before Obama took office in January.

 

[speculawyer]

PHOTOS: Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad faces pro-reform opposition in upcoming June 12th election

Fuck yeah . . . get rid of Iran's hardline religious fundamentalist belligerent dickhead. We did it here by getting rid of Cheney, you can do it too.

 

[Lucky Forward]

Obama's presidential limousine:

Ahmadinejad's presidential limousine:

 

[PantherLotus]

:lol

Reading Steele's comments from time to time, makes him sound like a troll in PoliGAF.

:lol

not a very good one, at that.

 

[GhaleonEB]

:lol

Reading Steele's comments from time to time, makes him sound like a troll in PoliGAF.

Ah, spin. It's the same everywhere (this reminds me of the NPD threads). :lol

Another way to look at it is, the job loss numbers have gone down every month Obama has been in office.

 

[Tideas]

Obama: Separately, the president told reporters: "The international community has an obligation, even when it's inconvenient, to act when genocide is occurring."

So, can we invade Sudan then?

 

[ChoklitReign]

GOP Senator Calls Obama's Cairo Speech 'Un-American'

Inhofe Attacks Obama's "Un-American" Speech -- "I Just Don't Know Whose Side He's On"
By Eric Kleefeld - June 5, 2009, 10:03AM

Mark down Sen. Jim Inhofe (R-OK) as one of the more outspoken critics of President Obama's speech yesterday in Egypt -- in fact, he told The Oklahoman the speech was "un-American" for calling the Iraq conflict a "war of choice."

Inhofe also blasted Obama for implying that torture had taken place at Guantanamo Bay: "There has never been a documented case of torture at Guantanamo."

"I just don't know whose side he's on," Inhofe added.​

I can't believe a douchebag like him can be a fucking senator. Put Oklahoma on my list of states never to enter.

 

[APF]

If Dick Cheney is in the news, and if the views he is putting forth are being hotly debated in Washington and elsewhere, why is it wrong for a news network to discuss these issues with someone who acts as a proxy?

 

[Lucky Forward]

I can't believe a douchebag like him can be a fucking senator. Put Oklahoma on my list of states never to enter.

Arkansas Senator Mark Pryor: You don't have to pass an IQ test to be in the Senate.

- Religulous

.

 

[ChoklitReign]

.

Well you should.

 

[reilo]

If Dick Cheney is in the news, and if the views he is putting forth are being hotly debated in Washington and elsewhere, why is it wrong for a news network to discuss these issues with someone who acts as a proxy?

If somebody like her is allowed to be on TV, then people also deserve the right to ridicule her and the network that puts such bullshit on. It goes both ways.

 

[mckmas8808]

"Friends"? Please define that term. This is a very give and get-nothing in return relationship. That's not friendship. That's manipulation.

You might not like them, but they are our friends. Isreal is our closes friend in the world.

 

[reilo]

You might not like them, but they are our friends. Isreal is our closes friend in the world.

:lol

I ask you again, please define the term "friend". There is nothing in this "relationship" that is to any benefit of the US.

 

[speculawyer]

GOP Senator Calls Obama's Cairo Speech 'Un-American'
Inhofe Attacks Obama's "Un-American" Speech -- "I Just Don't Know Whose Side He's On"
By Eric Kleefeld - June 5, 2009, 10:03AM

Mark down Sen. Jim Inhofe (R-OK) as one of the more outspoken critics of President Obama's speech yesterday in Egypt -- in fact, he told The Oklahoman the speech was "un-American" for calling the Iraq conflict a "war of choice."

Inhofe also blasted Obama for implying that torture had taken place at Guantanamo Bay: "There has never been a documented case of torture at Guantanamo."

"I just don't know whose side he's on," Inhofe added.​

Dude . . . no stockpiles of WMDs were found, remember? How was it not a war of choice? Are you really such a pussy that you think we had no choice in attacking a neutered military strongman with no WMDs on the other side of the planet? You are a big pussy!

And worse, he is a religious anti-science nutbag. He's the one that thinks global warming isn't an issue because god wouldn't let that happen to use. Well, you ask god's chosen people why god let 6 million of those chosen people get killed by Nazi Germany. God helps those who help themselves.

Oklahoma should be really embarrassed about this douche bag.

Obama's speech was awesome . . . it was the truth smackdown.
1) Islamic world smacked down for not doing enough to reign in violent extremists.
2) USA smacked down for 1953 coup in Iran.
3) Palestinians smacked down for their violence against innocents
4) Israelis smacked down for continued settlements.
5) Dictators smacked down for ruling without consent of the people.
6) Holocaust deniers smacked down for denying a horrible historic event that we must learn from.
7) USA smacked down for detainee abuse.
8) Hamas smacked down for refusing to recognize Israel.
9) Likud smacked down for refusing to recognize the need for a Palestinian state.
Etc.

He honestly smacked down all sides for their faults . . . but he also praised all sides for their goodness. People need to admit these truths before can move forward a remedy the problems.

 

[Justin Bailey]

:lol

I ask you again, please define the term "friend". There is nothing in this "relationship" that is to any benefit of the US.

I wouldn't say that. They are a middle eastern ally. I'm sure we get great intel on their neighbors from them.

 

[mckmas8808]

Obama's presidential limousine:

Ahmadinejad's presidential limousine:

The difference between the 2 countries are HUGE!

 

[reilo]

I wouldn't say that. They are a middle eastern ally. I'm sure we get great intel on their neighbors from them.

The USA is allies with Britain, Canada, and Germany. We don't share intel with them.

 

[speculawyer]

You might not like them, but they are our friends. Isreal is our closes friend in the world.

Wat? No. I'd give that to Canada or Britain.

Israel is too much like a friend that starts a needless bar fight such you end up getting hurt due to its belligerence. We are Israel's best friend but they are not our best friend. Israel is our best friend in the mid-east but that is kinda damning with faint praise.

 

[Justin Bailey]

The USA is allies with Britain, Canada, and Germany. We don't share intel with them.

Sure we do, what makes you think that?

Besides, we don't have the same relationship with them as we do Israel. Israel owes us a lot more than Canada, Britain, or Germany.

 

[mckmas8808]

:lol

I ask you again, please define the term "friend". There is nothing in this "relationship" that is to any benefit of the US.

It helps the stupid religous people that honestly believe that the land MUST stay in jewish hands.

And they are a democratic nation in the ME. That alone is worth saving. Plus look at all the history we have with them over the last 60 years. You just can't throw that away over nothing.

 

[APF]

If somebody like her is allowed to be on TV, then people also deserve the right to ridicule her and the network that puts such bullshit on. It goes both ways.

Your comment has nothing to do with anything.

 

[Tideas]

:lol

I ask you again, please define the term "friend". There is nothing in this "relationship" that is to any benefit of the US.

Considering how they kept Saddam Hussein in check back when he was in power, I definitely call that a friend.

 

[mckmas8808]

Your comment has nothing to do with anything.

It does. You just don't want it to mean anything.

 

[ZeoVGM]

MSNBC Shrugs About Liz Cheney’s Over-Exposure: “Liz Is A Great Guest”

MSNBC is shrugging off the growing criticism of the extensive airtime the network has granted Liz Cheney to mount a political defense of her father and a political offensive against the Obama administration, with a network spokesperson saying, “Liz is a great guest.”

As more critics are beginning to notice, Liz Cheney is not an ordinary GOP commentator. She is an active spokesperson on her father’s behalf at a time when questions about how to handle the Bush torture program are actively being debated by the White House and Congress. Her appearances are not comparable to those of conventional GOP guests.

Yet as Steve Benen, David Kurtz, and others have pointed out, Liz Cheney has been granted a near-constant platform on MSNBC to act as her father’s chief defender and go after Obama, often without meaningful challenge from either a co-guest or from anchors. They also note that it’s unclear what makes her newsworthy enough, in and of herself, to merit all that airtime.

Asked to respond to the above criticisms, MSNBC spokesperson Alana Russo emailed:

“We often have repeat guests on, from both sides of the aisle, when they are interesting and engaging. There are many people who appear frequently throughout the day on MSNBC, and Liz is a great guest.”​

So for now, MSNBC has no interest in directly answering the criticism. The network may yet make a producer available for an interview on these questions.

Meanwhile, MSNBC’s own Rachel Maddow ridiculed the overexposure Liz Cheney is getting (albeit without targeting MSNBC specifically), joking yesterday: “Liz Cheney is still on TV — making news by apparently making stuff up.”​

I'm confused. First MSNBC is attacked for sucking up to Obama. Now it's becasue they're not defending Obama from a guest they have on a lot. lol

Why do you keep polluting your mind with cable news? It's like watching Maury or Dr. Phil and pretending like you are informed about with the social issues of the day.

I enjoy watching MSNBC. They lean left, but they don't outright slander, lie, or make jokes about Obama cumming on Brian Williams face like Fox News does.

That being said, I read too. But if I'm at home, MSNBC is usually the station I pick for background noise. And Rachel Maddow is great.

 

[The Lamonster]

Your comment has nothing to do with anything.

Incorrect.

 

[speculawyer]

It helps the stupid religous people that honestly believe that the land MUST stay in jewish hands.

By 'It' do you mean Israel? If so, you are amazingly misinformed. It is the official policy of the ruling Likud party that Israel's Eastern border is the Jordan river and they will NOT recognize a Palestinian state.

Israel is currently ruled stupid religous people that honestly believe that the land MUST stay in jewish hands. Literally.

Edit: Don't get me wrong . . . I'm a huge supporter of Israel. But the current Israeli government is like a Bush lead government but even worse.

 

[Door2Dawn]

Considering how they kept Saddam Hussein in check back when he was in power, I definitely call that a friend.

Israel? Don't you mean Iran?

 

[TheGrayGhost]

I'm liking the Israelis less and less:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxt9HwfPwPo

Maybe the Arab world is onto something: modernity isn't such a good thing. Buncha fuckwads.

 

[reilo]

Your comment has nothing to do with anything.

You just argued that networks should be free to put on whoever they want to speak freely. Why shouldn't people be allowed to speak out against that network for putting that person on?

 

[PantherLotus]

The question of whether or not Liz Cheney should act as a proxy for her father is directly related to her lack of any discernable qualifications related to having any knowledge of torture, foreign relations, nuclear policy, the CIA, etc...other than "he's my Daddy."

The point is that zero elected officials other than Michelle Bachman would even attempt to defend this buffoon's empty headed sabre-rattling, fear mongering, and social hysterics other than his own fucking daughter.

She has zero business attempting to comment on policy issues because she is unqualified to do so. If she wants to say, "Hey! Don't call him names," I'm fine with that. But that's not at all what she's doing. She's acting as a mouthpiece for him, rereading prepared talking points in an effort to obscure the topic at hand and to put a fresh coat of bullshit on the last administration.

If she's trying to buffer her media savvy in an effort to run for office, shame on MSNBC for enabling her. But otherwise, shame on MSNBC for even giving her the time of day.



Note: in every interview (that I've seen) of her directly describing her father, she refers to him by his last name only. Like they're not related.

 

[eznark]

I'm liking the Israelis less and less:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxt9HwfPwPo

Maybe the Arab world is onto something: modernity isn't such a good thing. Buncha fuckwads.

What's in the video that has you condemning an entire people?

She has zero business attempting to comment on policy issues because she is unqualified to do so.

If only she was a movie star.....

 

[charlequin]

Her appearances are not comparable to those of conventional GOP guests.

Sure they are. Liz Cheney is overexposed because of a cable news world that has a symbiotic relationship with unemployed right-wing talking heads. It's not any different from how Newt Gingrich is suddenly everywhere despite being run out of gov't in disgrace a decade ago and having no actual useful expertise on anything, or how Pat Buchanan is suddenly our nation's go-to font of wisdom on racial issues.

Why do you keep polluting your mind with cable news? It's like watching Maury or Dr. Phil and pretending like you are informed about with the social issues of the day.

It's true. People's fucking cable fetish in this thread makes me crazy. Time would be better used pounding nails into your own eyes.

If Dick Cheney is in the news, and if the views he is putting forth are being hotly debated in Washington and elsewhere, why is it wrong for a news network to discuss these issues with someone who acts as a proxy?

Because Dick Cheney is in the news because cable puts him there, because cable news (a) has a structural lean towards right-wing commentators (and a window for discussion that ranges from moderate-leaning-slightly-left all the way to far-right) and (b) is constantly inventing and overhyping news controversies to fill air time and boost ratings.

Liz Cheney lacks the one useful qualification Dick Cheney has to speak on these matters, i.e. actually having participated in ordering and maintaining the Bush-era torture program.

Again, this is all just a reason that cable news is total fucking garbage that in all its evil, pustulent forms is bad for society. It's stupid that Liz Cheney gets to go on TV to run D for her evil father while associating a prettier face with his abhorrent message, but it's just one drop in a gigantic bucket of suck.

 

[charlequin]

I'm liking the Israelis less and less:

Maybe you should read up on the context of that video, then, given that it is composed almost entirely of rich, American students who are "studying abroad" in Israel.

The point of the video isn't at all that Israelis are "bad" or some dumb shit like that, it's that there's a lobby of virulently anti-Palestinian Americans who send their kids off to Israel as part of a political goal of pushing the Israeli government in a hard-line direction. Actual Israelis have a dramatically more diverse set of opinions on the matter than this, and lean much less in a hardline direction than American supporters of groups like AIPAC do.

 

[PantherLotus]

GOP Rep: Leaking Classified Info Is Terrible, Except When We Do It

Hoekstra: Leaking Classified Info Is Terrible -- Except When GOP Does It
By Zachary Roth - June 5, 2009, 12:59PM

Now this is some chutzpah....

You might remember that a few years ago, Washington's Republicans were all up in arms over the fact that classified information about the Bush administration's warrantless wiretapping program had been leaked to the New York Times. The Justice Department began an investigation into the leak, and congressional GOPers gravely declared what a serious crime this was.

As Rep. Pete Hoekstra, the ranking Republican on the House intelligence committee, approvingly put it in August 2007: "The Justice Department is going after those who violated their oath of office by giving classified information to reporters. Those reporters will be sitting in jail by the end of the year until they reveal their sources."

Violated their oath of office?! Sounds like revealing classified information is pretty serious.

Well, maybe it depends on who's doing it. Today, The Hill reports on a classified intelligence briefing held yesterday by the House intelligence committee -- using Hoekstra as a source:

Hoekstra did not attend the hearing, but said he later spoke with Republicans on the subcommittee who did. He said he came away with even more proof that the enhanced interrogation techniques employed by the CIA proved effective.
"I think the people who were at the hearing, in my opinion, clearly indicated that the enhanced interrogation techniques worked," Hoekstra said.

Rep. John Kline (R-Minn.), a member of the subcommittee who attended the hearing, concurred with Hoekstra.

"The hearing did address the enhanced interrogation techniques that have been much in the news lately," Kline said, noting that he was intentionally choosing his words carefully in observance of the committee rules and the nature of the information presented.

"Based on what I heard and the documents I have seen, I came away with a very clear impression that we did gather information that did disrupt terrorist plots," Kline said.​

Democrats on the committee, understandably, are slamming Republicans for publicly disclosing classified information.

"I am absolutely shocked that members of the Intelligence committee who attended a closed-door hearing ... then walked out that hearing -- early, by the way -- and characterized anything that happened in that hearing," said Intelligence Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations Chairwoman Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.). "My understanding is that's a violation of the rules. It may be more than that."​

Of course, the information that Republicans told The Hill is far less specific in nature than the information leaked to the Times about the warrantless wiretapping program. Still, if something's classified, it's classified. Members don't get to make their own judgments about degrees of classification -- in part for exactly this reason.

As for the substance of the GOP claims about what was learned in the hearing, it's hard to evaluate them without more detail on what crucial information was allegedly obtained through torture. But it's worth noting that few torture opponents have maintained that the practice never obtained any usable intel whatsoever. Rather, they argue that the costs -- in terms of false leads, and damage to our international reputation, among other things -- outweigh the benefits.

That issue aside, we look forward to Rep. Hoekstra's forthcoming declaration that he and his Republican colleagues have violated their oaths of office by leaking classified information. Though given Hoekstra's less than sterling reputation for logical consistency, maybe we shouldn't hold our breath.​

 

[TheGrayGhost]

Well, I'm dumb. Should've read the description to understand that the people sampled were American Jews.

 

[speculawyer]

Well, I'm dumb. Should've read the description to understand that the people sampled were American Jews.

Well, there are Israeli Jews that are just as bad and sometimes even much worse . . . the hard-right settler people that are basically making a bogus real-estate claim using a book of myths and massively distorted history.

But as others have mentioned, the people in that video are just a minority subgroup . . . there is a wide spectrum from the hard-right like those to the far out peaceniks and even some that think Israel should not exist. Its a bell curve of opinions.

 

[Aaron Strife]

I can't believe a douchebag like him can be a fucking senator. Put Oklahoma on my list of states never to enter.

Fun fact:

Oklahoma was the only state where McCain won in every district

 

[PantherLotus]

If only she was a movie star.....

How cute. Except silly liberal celebrities aren't the only people defending one particular person, nor is a network giving them an exclusive platfrom from which to spew.

 

[The Lamonster]

 

[GhaleonEB]

Subtle.

 

[PantherLotus]

Subtle.

 

[Hootie]

Subtle.

Must...be...photoshopped...can't be real...too stupid...too...stupid...no way...

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

What are the chances of Mousavi winning? Zero, considering the Ayatollahs are really in power?