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[Byakuya769]

I thought we've been over the discrepancy between broad support for bad policy and tempered support for necessary legislative action?

btw... is everyone done wanting to punch one another?

 

[sprsk]

Drive by! Everyone get down on the ground!!

 

[Particle Physicist]

:lol

 

[drakesfortune]

"Obamacare will kill grandma and make you abort your babies"


That's all the time we have Ghal, so we'll have to leave it there.

Keep talking. You're helping elect conservatives and return this country to a sane state of mind. Yell it from the rooftops. Please. You are helping conservatives.

Yeah, the media, man...they hate Obama. Oh yeah, more than anyone. Jeesh, they got this guy with ZERO experience elected. They portrayed him as a messiah. They REFUSED to cover negative stories about him during the campaign.

I truly loved Axlerod's piece today on Rove. Did you see that he actually tried to blame the 1.4 trillion dollar deficit on Bush? Did you see that crazy shit? He actually blamed the stimulus on BUSH! Nearly EVERY Republican opposed it, and he blamed 800 billion dollars on Bush. Hahahahahahahaha. You guys truly must think people are dumb as fucking dumb gets if they believe that disingenuous, lying, dishonest, sack of shit.

And you wonder why nobody listens to Obama anymore. Okay Obama, why do you plan to have TRIPLE the deficits of Bush then? That's the fucking crazy plan! That's it! They plan to TRIPLE the deficit over the next decade. That's the plan!? Do you hear me? That's what they're planning! And they blame Bush for their insane deficit this year? I mean they only spent less than 100 billion on Tarp this year. Bush's numbers include the bulk of tarp spending and he only reached in the 400 billions. Obama had a 1 thousand, 4 hundred billion dollar deficit this year, and that included almost ZERO TARP spending. He got almost ZERO support from Republicans for his over 1 trillion dollars in NEW spending that HE signed into law. And he sits there and blames this year's deficit on Bush. HE SIGNED INTO LAW OVER 1 TRILLION in NEW spending that HE blames on Bush. Hahahah. Oh man, people are really in over their heads with this guy. He is so dishonest. He makes Bush look like the pope. He has earned the lowest approval rating EVER by ANY president after one year. He worked hard for that honor, and now he's got it! Good job Obama.

 

[drakesfortune]

I thought we've been over the discrepancy between broad support for bad policy and tempered support for necessary legislative action?

btw... is everyone done wanting to punch one another?

Right, so basically Democracy 0, fascism 1. You believe that broad popular support is wrong, but altruistic fascism is right. Got it now. You're right. Let's dissolve this crazy Democracy and just let Obama rule forever because popular will is bad. A government for the liberals, by the liberals, with truth and justice for a few.

 

[Byakuya769]

Right, so basically Democracy 0, fascism 1. You believe that broad popular support is wrong, but altruistic fascism is right. Got it now. You're right. Let's dissolve this crazy Democracy and just let Obama rule forever because popular will is bad. A government for the liberals, by the liberals, with truth and justice for a few.

Sorry, you're right. Why even have elected officials, just decide all policy issues through Fox News opinion polls.

 

[Averon]

:lol :lol :lol

 

[sprsk]

Man, America is hopeless with dipshits like this.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Right, so basically Democracy 0, fascism 1. You believe that broad popular support is wrong, but altruistic fascism is right. Got it now. You're right. Let's dissolve this crazy Democracy and just let Obama rule forever because popular will is bad. A government for the liberals, by the liberals, with truth and justice for a few.

Really?

Edit: who in this thread keeps pulling the string?

 

[GhaleonEB]

Really?

He has a point. Just because Obama won by a wide margin in the election does not give him free reign to enact his agenda, especially if Congress is going along with it. Should public opinion polls sour, the best thing to do is say 'nevermind' and resign.

Edit: who in this thread keeps pulling the string?

*hangs head in shame*

 

[drakesfortune]

And to put that 1 trillion in new spending into perspective, the ENTIRE budget of 2001 was 1.8 trillion. Let me repeat. Obama added 1 trillion in new spending this year. The ENTIRE...WHOLE ENCHILADA of a budget in 2001 was 1.8 trillion. Is the NOT a wake up call to ANYONE?

 

[drakesfortune]

He has a point. Just because Obama won by a wide margin in the election does not give him free reign to enact his agenda, especially if Congress is going along with it. Should public opinion polls sour, the best thing to do is say 'nevermind' and resign.

*hangs head in shame*

So, when Obama in 2005 said that Bush's social security reform was dead, and that the people had spoken THROUGH THE POLLS, was he wrong?!?

Let me repeat. In 2005, the poll numbers for social security reform were at 36%, roughly where the health care reform polls are now. Obama said, and I heard it with my own ears today, that the issue was DEAD because of the polls, the American people had spoken. Those are HIS words on a different issue, with the EXACT same poll numbers. So are you saying that the republicans and bush should have rammed down social security reform simply because they had a majority?

I mean HONESTLY, do you REALLY believe that people elected Obama to fundamentally change the country?!? DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT GARBAGE?!? They elected him because HE WAS NOT BUSH!!! Sure, a minority, 36% elected him to take over the health system, but those people in the squishy middle believed this guy when HE SAID HE WOULD REACH ACROSS THE AISLE AND ACT IN A BIPARTISAN MANNER! Why the HELL do you think he had such great appeal? He said he would DESTROY the deficit. He said he would WORK WITH REPUBLICANS and COMPROMISE on the issues.

I mean honestly, it's not for NOTHING that his poll numbers are worse than any president EVER. EVER!!!!! EVER!!!

Man, like I said, he earned his dismal approval rating. He promised he would reach across the aisle. He promised he would kill the deficits. Those words are sex to the independent's ears. He WON because he made THOSE specific promises to independents. He won because he PROMISED to have an open government. He won because he PROMISED to reach across the aisle and compromise. He WON because he PROMISED to kill the deficit. He has made ALL of these problems FAR, FAR, FAR worse than they were when he got there.

 

[GhaleonEB]

So, when Obama in 2005 said that Bush's social security reform was dead, and that the people had spoken THROUGH THE POLLS, was he wrong?!?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SypeZjeOrY4

 

[i_am_ben]

And to put that 1 trillion in new spending into perspective, the ENTIRE budget of 2001 was 1.8 trillion. Let me repeat. Obama added 1 trillion in new spending this year. The ENTIRE...WHOLE ENCHILADA of a budget in 2001 was 1.8 trillion. Is the NOT a wake up call to ANYONE?

just raise taxes by 1 trillion. Problem solved.

 

[Byakuya769]

Obama really said that?

 

[PhoenixDark]

And to put that 1 trillion in new spending into perspective, the ENTIRE budget of 2001 was 1.8 trillion. Let me repeat. Obama added 1 trillion in new spending this year. The ENTIRE...WHOLE ENCHILADA of a budget in 2001 was 1.8 trillion. Is the NOT a wake up call to ANYONE?

If you honestly think Bush's first year spending is analogous to Obama's I can't help you. Last time I checked Obama was juggling two wars and a financial meltdown in his first year.

And your argument about polls is ridiculous. Presidents don't govern based on what polls say. Bush backed down because his plans were suicide for his party, and he didn't have the votes. Not the same situation. Also, should we have totally withdrawn from Iraq the minute polls started consistently showing opposition to the war?

The economy and deficit aren't games that reset the minute a new president is sworn in.

Finally, Obama's numbers are not down because he hasn't "reached across the aisle" trying to compromise; his entire first year has consisted of compromises. His numbers are down because unemployment numbers are up. People bitch about government spending far less when they have jobs

 

[soul creator]

I mean honestly, it's not for NOTHING that his poll numbers are worse than any president EVER. EVER!!!!! EVER!!!

I'm sorry Ms. Jackson

Spoiler

oooh!

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Man I hope I wasn't this bad when I first started posting in PoliGAF. My brain hurts from reading that dreck.

 

[Oblivion]

I seem to recall Bush spent nearly a trillion 3 months just before his second term was over.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I seem to recall Bush spent nearly a trillion 3 months just before his second term was over.

I get a kick out of how tax cuts are not considered to have the same impact as spending on the budget. Whether you spend the money or stop it from coming in, the impact to the budget is the same. Bush's trillions in tax cuts were several times the cost of the healthcare bill, not paid for at all (and went largely to the wealthy, natch). And here we are, with the economy wreaked, the deficit exploded and getting lectures on fiscal responsibility from the guys who did it and their bozo cheerleaders.

 

[xbhaskarx]

BaseballGAF and PoliGAF converge:

I’ve been called a LOT of things…
By Curt Schilling

But never, and I mean never, could anyone ever make the mistake of calling me a Yankee fan. Well, check that, if you didn’t know what the hell is going on in your own state maybe you could…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmNpcMHwOa8

 

[Dooraven]

Not related to anything at the moment, but here's a nice wallpaper sized over-view of political parties during 1820-1860 (and the birth of the two political parties of today(at least, in name)).

Wait, so let me get this straight.

On the American Political Scale (Not the Worldwide one)
The Democrats were founded as a centre-right party and are now centre-left?
The Republicans were founded as centre-left party and are now centre-right?

 

[water_wendi]

Wait, so let me get this straight.

On the American Political Scale (Not the Worldwide one)
The Democrats were founded as a centre-right party and are now centre-left?
The Republicans were founded as centre-left party and are now centre-right?

Crazy huh? Only in Estados Unidos de America.

 

[xbhaskarx]

Not related to anything at the moment, but here's a nice wallpaper sized over-view of political parties during 1820-1860 (and the birth of the two political parties of today(at least, in name)).

They should have included John Tyler and Millard Fillmore as VPs who took over the Presidency just so the chart would be complete.

 

[schuelma]

BaseballGAF and PoliGAF converge:

I’ve been called a LOT of things…
By Curt Schilling

But never, and I mean never, could anyone ever make the mistake of calling me a Yankee fan. Well, check that, if you didn’t know what the hell is going on in your own state maybe you could…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmNpcMHwOa8

Just a horrible horrible candidate. I thought the dems had an opportunity with Obama's bank tax, but shit like this just muddies the waters.

Question for Northeast/Mass dems- is Coakley the best Mass. dems could do? She is literally making one gaffe a day now.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Wait, so let me get this straight.

On the American Political Scale (Not the Worldwide one)
The Democrats were founded as a centre-right party and are now centre-left?
The Republicans were founded as centre-left party and are now centre-right?

Read up on classical liberalism.

 

[Dooraven]

Read up on classical liberalism.

Okay, so classical liberalism is a political ideology that advocates for minimal economic and personal intervention from the government, sort of like libertarianism but I reckon its a bit less extreme than libertarianism and that Jackson's policies were very classical liberal and laissez faire. So yeah and Jackson founded the Democrats and that was more suited to the centre right. But I'm not really seeing the connection here.

EDIT: By connection I mean the connection between classical liberalism and my Dems moving to the left, Repubs moving to the right post.

 

[Diablos]

I get a kick out of how tax cuts are not considered to have the same impact as spending on the budget. Whether you spend the money or stop it from coming in, the impact to the budget is the same. Bush's trillions in tax cuts were several times the cost of the healthcare bill, not paid for at all (and went largely to the wealthy, natch). And here we are, with the economy wreaked, the deficit exploded and getting lectures on fiscal responsibility from the guys who did it and their bozo cheerleaders.

For me it goes beyond just "getting a kick" out of what Bush did. His tax cuts had more of a profound impact (and for the worse) on the economy than anything Obama has done thus far, and yet over half of the country now seems to be weary of his economic initiatives. It's pretty amazing that it remains unpopular/risky/upsetting to raise taxes on the wealthy.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

OFA going into overdrive for the MA Elections now.

lol.

I can't believe how big of a Clusterfuck Dems have made it. Tim Kaine should hand in resignations if Dems lose the MA-Sen Election.

 

[Diablos]

OFA going into overdrive for the MA Elections now.

lol.

I can't believe how big of a Clusterfuck Dems have made it. Tim Kaine should hand in resignations if Dems lose the MA-Sen Election.

Kaine should have just stayed in VA and had nothing to do with the chair of the DNC.

 

[gkryhewy]

I mean honestly, it's not for NOTHING that his poll numbers are worse than any president EVER. EVER!!!!! EVER!!!

Christ on a bike, dude, this is a hardcore meltdown. You need to relax.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Bush Clinton and Obama standing together is strange

Live on CNN

 

[Diablos]

Obama is basically at the same point the GOP's Lord and Savior and founder of Free Market Principals™ was at in his second year. drakesfortune and like-minded individuals might want to think twice before criticizing Obama for having the worst poll numbers EVAR OMG.

Anyway

Ugh

 

[avaya]

That bank tax isn't enough.

Tobin tax is what's really needed. Insurance premium of the forever. 1 cent tax on every financial transaction. The EU is willing to do it, as are the Asian's. It's only the US that is reluctant.

 

[The Librarian]

Drakesfortune shouldn't be allowed to pull his own string.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Obama is basically at the same point the GOP's Lord and Savior and founder of Free Market Principals™ was at in his second year. drakesfortune and like-minded individuals might want to think twice before criticizing Obama for having the worst poll numbers EVAR OMG.

Anyway

Ugh

While Coakley deserves to lose for being such an unappealing candidate and taking the Hillary approach to campaigning by setting herself up as an inevitability while Scott Brown is out shaking hands and meeting people and getting his name out, health care reform basically comes down to her winning in MA, so this all really sucks.

 

[empty vessel]

Wait, so let me get this straight.

On the American Political Scale (Not the Worldwide one)
The Democrats were founded as a centre-right party and are now centre-left?
The Republicans were founded as centre-left party and are now centre-right?

The national Democratic party is not currently center-left. It is center-right. The Republican party is now far right, not remotely near the center of anything. (In the mid-twentieth century (1930's to 1960's), the national Democratic party could plausibly have been described as center-left.)

 

[Baraka in the White House]

*pats self down* Everyone alright? For the love of God, someone check the kids' rooms upstairs.

 

[Sirpopopop]

It's not just Health Care reform.

It's pretty much every single fucking problem we are facing today as a country.

The Republicans will just filibuster, and the entire country will go along like the dolts that they are. There will be no action made on any of the problems that we are facing, because the Republican agenda is to view our problems not as problems, but as good things. Change is bad. Being inflexible in a changing world is good!

Just look at how out of touch drakesfortune is...

Hell, I've read on Republican message boards about how the comments by Pat Robertson are not as bad as the comments by Harry Reid, because of the context. I don't care about the fucking context, how the hell can you say that the deaths of thousands of people is justified is not as bad as a mere comment about a politician's political chances at victory. There is a sense of scale here.

Thanks Coakley. Fucking idiot.

 

[Tamanon]

The ironic thing is that most of the establishment Republican supporters of Brown would be opposed to him if he weren't such a strong run.

From all I've read of the guy, I actually wouldn't be completely surprised if he was still a 60th vote.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Coakley is a goddamn idiot. If she loses, nothing will get down from then on. Nothing at all. The republicans will neuter Obama.

 

[GhaleonEB]

The ironic thing is that most of the establishment Republican supporters of Brown would be opposed to him if he weren't such a strong run.

From all I've read of the guy, I actually wouldn't be completely surprised if he was still a 60th vote.

He's pledged to oppose not only healthcare, but everything else. He even specifically said he'd be the 41st vote to kill the health bill in the debate. He's been tea partied.

I still think Coakley will win, but it will be ugly close.

 

[Diablos]

The Senate was bound to lose the 60 Seat Dem majority in the midterms, so this "neutering" of Obama's agenda is possibly coming much earlier.

That said, I don't know if Coakley will be able to pull through this. It's really starting to look like the enthusiasm for Brown is really beginning to show.

If Dems were smart they'd just pass this thing next week before the election. Might as well treat the final vote as a hail mary; it could have been better, but we are risking either a. the whole thing being shelved indefinitely or b. a long, drawn out, painful reconciliation process that will go on FOREVER, that is going to further confuse and annoy the electorate and make public support for the bill plummet even more. This bill needs to pass, and it needs to pass now. If HCR is still front and center of the domestic agenda beyond the first quarter of this year, Democrats are asking for even more trouble.

This is just a nightmare. Even a weak candidate with a (D) next to their name (i.e. Coakley) should have no problem winning an election in the bluest of blue states. Even if she wins, this is very telling. I think the 2010 election is going to be more brutal than anyone thought.

I still think Coakley will win, but it will be ugly close.

Didn't you just say a couple days ago that she will still probably win by 8 or 9 points? Now you think it's going to be "ugly close"?

I really do think Brown is potentially going to have just enough of an edge in enthusiasm among independent voters to squeak by Coakley and barely win, but win nonetheless. Democrats are panicking. When you need Obama and Clinton to stump for you at the last minute in Massachusetts, well...

 

[GhaleonEB]

I think I said 4-8 points, which I consider close for a Dem in MA. I still think it will be in that range, though probably in the low end.

 

[The Librarian]

What day is the vote for this race suppose to take place?

 

[Tamanon]

The fact that President Obama is actually going out there to campaign makes me think it'll be a win for the Dems. I can't see how he would be going out there if there wasn't a great chance of a win.

 

[Diablos]

The fact that President Obama is actually going out there to campaign makes me think it'll be a win for the Dems. I can't see how he would be going out there if there wasn't a great chance of a win.

 

[Y2Kev]

Diablos, if Coakley, in all her assness, wins, you have to change your avatar to that of a butt.

Coakley sucks major ass, but when you look at the internals of even the Suffolk poll, I don't see enthusiasm for Brown. Even though the overall poll was 4+ for Brown, question 28 says something like 64% of respondents think Coakley will actually win. That's some shitty enthusiasm.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Diablos is as bad if not worse than all those labeled with "Chicken Little" during the election. :lol

Dax: Tuesday.

 

[Diablos]

Diablos, if Coakley, in all her assness, wins, you have to change your avatar to that of a butt.

Deal. I'll do it for a month. Only, however, if you do the same should she lose.

Diablos is as bad if not worse than all those labeled with "Chicken Little" during the election. :lol

Dax: Tuesday.

Even you have concerns. I'm just being more vocal about the colossal fuckup that Dems are making here.

And the scenarios I'm running through if Brown manages to win isn't "Chicken Little", it's very true. I don't want to see a year's worth of work by the Congress while a lot of other things got put on the backburner get pissed away because Democrats weren't smart enough to run a good candidate in MA.