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Political Divide Splits Relationships and Thanksgiving, Too
- Thread starter Dalek
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hydragonwarrior
Member
Or <and this is quite the predominant reasoning> ignorant or misinformed of everything else he's done and spoken, and only cared about the one or two things he said about change or jobs or being "someone different" that motivated you to vote.
Some people are just completely out of it information wise.
M0nochromatic
Member
But your point remains and I agree. Family ties have zero value to me if that person is a harmful, reprehensible human being.
crisdecuba
Member
Personally I can't imagine cutting family or friends off over the election.
Well, it's certainly going to be an experience because all five of my cousins voted for Hillary and so did our parents bar one. My retired colonel uncle voted for Trump as a blind R (which is just as bad in my book) but my grandma is the one that has taken in the koolaid. I haven't been silent about how much their selfishness cost the country. They've been pretty silent now that they've seen his potential cabinet... hm..
You might be singing a different toon if you had to sit through thanksgiving listening to people to talk about how black peoples are lazy and thugs, Muslims are all terrorists or Mexicans need to be shipped back across the border. Unless you believe those things
I'm glad this isn't the case for me. Everyone in my family (and friends) leans to the left. And my family isn't big on political discussion.
Good luck to everyone having to deal with this. I know if I were in your shoes I wouldn't go or would be getting into huge fights.
Good luck to everyone having to deal with this. I know if I were in your shoes I wouldn't go or would be getting into huge fights.
PastorOfMuppets
Banned
Can we please end the horseshit about the disenfranchised, desperate scared white working class that was willing to bravely try anything to get their jobs back? Holy shit. I thought the Left was supposed to be in the bubbles.
A lot of people seem to forget that before there were ever factories in rural America, they were in the cities first. The first wave of outsourcing was from the cities to the small towns that dot middle America. Why do you think cities like Detroit and Cleveland are in places referred to as the Rust Belt? What middle America is experiencing, people in cities have already gone through. We don't need to empathize with them because we went through it first. That meth epidemic that's affecting the Midwest and deep south right now, what do people think was the reason for the heroin and crack epidemic in the cities in the 70s and 80s? Same reason, loss of jobs from the hollowing out of formerly industrialized areas of North America.
I literally - right now as I type this, am living in a hollowed out factory that has been turned into a downtown loft (yeah I know, can I get anymore cliché as a liberal?). My neighbourhood in the first half of the 20th century was an industrial area with nothing but factories. After it hollowing out of the industrial areas in the 80s and 90s, this neighbourhood went to shit. Business boarded up and left, buildings were empty for years, the factories that dotted the landscape decayed away. Much of the population left for better opportunities elsewhere, the ones who stayed saw the decline of a working class - mostly black neighbourhood. Sometimes when I visit my parents in small town Ontario, it's like a window into the past.
I see remnants of big tobacco, factories laying people off and a mostly white population going through the same thing a mostly diverse population went through all over North America in the 70s and 80s. Shrinking pensions? We've been there for the last 20 years. Generation X went through this in the 90s.
I keep hearing about how the Left, the so called SJWs are the ones who have to leave their bubble. Many of us have left our bubbles, I've traveled the world, lived in three separate cities in ten years thousand of miles from each other. I run into students in university all the time - all the fucking time, who were the only gay kid in their small towns, the only Jewish, only black, only Asian, only trans etc. and to a T, almost all of them tell me that they felt like they escaped when they left for the big city. I'm not seeing the bubble here with us.
I'm seeing a mostly white population that is still stuck in theirs. One that had less access to information and stuck in the echo chamber we are accused of being trapped in. Another bubble I see is from these upper middle class white moderates who's parents might have transitioned to the service economy earlier, who never had to experience the hollowing out of industrialized cities because they grew up in the suburbs. Their empathy is being misplaced out of ignorance.
A lot of people seem to forget that before there were ever factories in rural America, they were in the cities first. The first wave of outsourcing was from the cities to the small towns that dot middle America. Why do you think cities like Detroit and Cleveland are in places referred to as the Rust Belt? What middle America is experiencing, people in cities have already gone through. We don't need to empathize with them because we went through it first. That meth epidemic that's affecting the Midwest and deep south right now, what do people think was the reason for the heroin and crack epidemic in the cities in the 70s and 80s? Same reason, loss of jobs from the hollowing out of formerly industrialized areas of North America.
I literally - right now as I type this, am living in a hollowed out factory that has been turned into a downtown loft (yeah I know, can I get anymore cliché as a liberal?). My neighbourhood in the first half of the 20th century was an industrial area with nothing but factories. After it hollowing out of the industrial areas in the 80s and 90s, this neighbourhood went to shit. Business boarded up and left, buildings were empty for years, the factories that dotted the landscape decayed away. Much of the population left for better opportunities elsewhere, the ones who stayed saw the decline of a working class - mostly black neighbourhood. Sometimes when I visit my parents in small town Ontario, it's like a window into the past.
I see remnants of big tobacco, factories laying people off and a mostly white population going through the same thing a mostly diverse population went through all over North America in the 70s and 80s. Shrinking pensions? We've been there for the last 20 years. Generation X went through this in the 90s.
I keep hearing about how the Left, the so called SJWs are the ones who have to leave their bubble. Many of us have left our bubbles, I've traveled the world, lived in three separate cities in ten years thousand of miles from each other. I run into students in university all the time - all the fucking time, who were the only gay kid in their small towns, the only Jewish, only black, only Asian, only trans etc. and to a T, almost all of them tell me that they felt like they escaped when they left for the big city. I'm not seeing the bubble here with us.
I'm seeing a mostly white population that is still stuck in theirs. One that had less access to information and stuck in the echo chamber we are accused of being trapped in. Another bubble I see is from these upper middle class white moderates who's parents might have transitioned to the service economy earlier, who never had to experience the hollowing out of industrialized cities because they grew up in the suburbs. Their empathy is being misplaced out of ignorance.
I haven't really had to cut ties over this with family, not that I was really that close with most of my family to begin with due to some past shit that went down. My mom pretty much listens to me on politics, my one sister has always been pretty liberal with not a hateful bone in her body so she voted against Trump. I haven't asked my Aunt and Uncle but I don't talk politics or religion with them to avoid conflict (i'm currently renting a house they own at a discounted rate) i'm pretty sure who they voted for but they are old, religious republicans. There is no challenging them.
My other sister in Texas is the weirder more delicate situation. She married a black man while in the army and moved to Texas to be closer to his family. My nephews used to spend summers with us and we would have a blast and I would fly out there for Christmas once in awhile but she just kinda stopped calling and my nephews became really openly homophobic spouting nasty stuff on facebook. I have a feeling the couple times I said something about what they were saying not being right made my sister mad. Enough that when I was in the hospital with my heart problems she didn't even call or come and visit. I know they didn't vote for Obama either and I have a feeling its either the military thing or them being heavily religious and my brother in law becoming a pastor after they got out of the army. I'm not really sure how I try to fix that break or approach the situation.
My other sister in Texas is the weirder more delicate situation. She married a black man while in the army and moved to Texas to be closer to his family. My nephews used to spend summers with us and we would have a blast and I would fly out there for Christmas once in awhile but she just kinda stopped calling and my nephews became really openly homophobic spouting nasty stuff on facebook. I have a feeling the couple times I said something about what they were saying not being right made my sister mad. Enough that when I was in the hospital with my heart problems she didn't even call or come and visit. I know they didn't vote for Obama either and I have a feeling its either the military thing or them being heavily religious and my brother in law becoming a pastor after they got out of the army. I'm not really sure how I try to fix that break or approach the situation.
I hate that I do. Not that I've stopped talking to them (in fact visiting them for Christmas) but I admit part of me is angry that they cannot see what is so wrong about trump. Even though I expected them to fall in line with who ever the republicans choose. I guess I was kinda hoping they could get past that to see the problem with him. But they actually like him and think he will only run for four years cause he's just in it to get corruption out of politics. UGH!!!!
About people being stupid or racist to vote for Trump ... maybe, but there was a post I saw earlier today -- I'm not sure how to attribute it, I think it showed up on Tumblr first, but I think it explains pretty well how people can be racist and not evil ... not that racism is ok, but that they are literally unaware.
Basically, it's about how great it is that Ron Weasley is racist::
Basically, it's about how great it is that Ron Weasley is racist::
Ron Weasleys character is consciously written as somewhat racist. Not as racist as Malfoy, of course - he doesnt scoff at mudbloods and halfbloods, and he doesnt see himself as superior at all. Still, he unquestionably accepts the inferior position of house elves (they love serving), when he finds out that Lupins werewolf his reaction is not only scared but also disgusted (Dont touch me!) and he is clearly very uncomfortable finding out that Hagrid is half-giant (giants are wild and savage).
And this is brilliant. Because it demonstrates that racism isnt only present in clearly malicious and evil people, in the Malfoys and Blacks - its also there in warm, kind, funny people who just happened to learn some pretty toxic things growing up in a pretty toxic society. And they can unlearn them too, with some time and effort. Ron eventually accepts Hagrids parentage, lets Lupin bandage his leg and in the final battle, he worries about the safety of the house elves.
Some people are prejudiced because they are evil, and some people are prejudiced because they dont know better yet. And those people can learn better, and become better people. And thats an important lesson. The lesson taught about discrimination shouldnt be only evil people do it, because then all readers will assume it doesnt apply to them. Instead old JK teaches us you too are probably doing it, and you should do stop ASAP.
And this is brilliant. Because it demonstrates that racism isnt only present in clearly malicious and evil people, in the Malfoys and Blacks - its also there in warm, kind, funny people who just happened to learn some pretty toxic things growing up in a pretty toxic society. And they can unlearn them too, with some time and effort. Ron eventually accepts Hagrids parentage, lets Lupin bandage his leg and in the final battle, he worries about the safety of the house elves.
Some people are prejudiced because they are evil, and some people are prejudiced because they dont know better yet. And those people can learn better, and become better people. And thats an important lesson. The lesson taught about discrimination shouldnt be only evil people do it, because then all readers will assume it doesnt apply to them. Instead old JK teaches us you too are probably doing it, and you should do stop ASAP.
Because you change anyone that way? They just become more racist. It's about education, it always will be.
"they're not racist, they're ronald weasley"
well i'll admit that that's a new one for me
radios shipping overview
Member
Identity politics did help one presidential candidate win in 2016, and that candidate wasn't Hillary.
wumster3000
Member
We usually eat with our neighbors. Passing on them for the foreseeable future. Their reasons for voting for him makes us want to vomit. Meh Gunz!!
Dude Abides
Banned
This is lazy and wrong, as are most assertions that start with "it's about." Racists have been told all their lives that racism is wrong. It's not for lack of information that they reject that view.
Honest question: why do you feel that "racist" is an insult?
You're not paying attention at all -- no, many of them have never been told they're racists and they don't even realize it. They think it's the way the world it and that everyone else is wrong. I'm not suggesting racism shouldn't be called out, what I'm saying is that many aren't even aware they're being racist.
It's like if someone handed you something -- and you walked away with it thinking it was a gift and suddenly people started screaming at you that you're a thief and a crook and you should burn. You'd have no idea why they were doing this -- but, you'd be pissed and angry that they're treating you that way.
Well, things like white & male privilege are exactly the same -- they're gifts people shouldn't have. But, until those people understand what they've got, they will NEVER come around because they don't think anything is wrong. To a lot of people living in an insular bubble, they are literally unaware of it. Why do you think there is so much resistance to things like Feminist Frequency? You can't think in such simple binary terms when it comes to people, or you're as bad as they are.
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