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[Xe4]

Its still funny, after 40 years of being black, how no one cares about black people til its time to vote. Then they're all up in our churches, talking to our mothers of slain children, playing dominoes with us and brandishing their tabasco sauce to remind us that the republicans are evil and that they care about our issues oh so much. But once they get into office, "cops are killing your kids? that sucks. Tell us about it in 4 years."

Dear god. Hillary was NOT pandering. I don't know how many times this has to be said. The girl legitimately likes hot sauce.

Other than that, I agree. Democrats do have a problem with taking the black vote for granted. This is mostly because democrats know that when push comes to shove African Americans and black citizens will vote democratic because it sure as hell beats having a republican in office.

I'm not sure how the black community can adress this, but BLM seems to be doing a somewhat good job already. Vote democratic in elections where there is no suitable alternative and have your voices be heard by introducing a candidate in local elections. Make democrats sweat for the black vote and thus keep them on their mind.

Still a tough challenge though.

If the lesson from this election is that minorities will from now on support the establishment, and that they can't be relied upon to try to help to change a corrupt and unjust system, that may just be the saddest thing I've ever heard.

Just how did the people in power do this? They must really be geniuses. I bow to their superior skills of deceit and manipulation. They're too good. They've got black people lining up en masse to vote for Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders. Even writing it I still can't quite believe it.

Let's just take stock here: Young white voters are actually kind of voting against their best interests, by supporting a candidate looking to tear down power structures that certainly benefit them more than others and create a more level playing field, while black voters are backing one of the ultimate poster children for deeply entrenched and corrupt political power and privilege.

How did minorities get left behind in this groundswell movement that seeks to combat the excesses and abuses of the corporate class? Don't they realize it governs almost every troublesome aspect of society - the criminal justice system, the education system, the employment sector, the banking system? I'll never understand it.

Wow. You know you are exactly the kind of person the article was talking about. Why don't you stop your diatribe and instead stop telling black people how to vote?

Maybe those in the black community are worried more about not hired, called nasty names, or even being shot because of the color of their skin than some nebulous entity of Wallstreet. Maybe you talking down to them is the reason they don't want to support your "revolution".

SMH.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

The shift to hate on Bernie has been a fascinating process.

He made it so easy, though...

 

[Toxi]

If the lesson from this election is that minorities will from now on support the establishment, and that they can't be relied upon to try to help to change a corrupt and unjust system, that may just be the saddest thing I've ever heard.

Just how did the people in power do this? They must really be geniuses. I bow to their superior skills of deceit and manipulation. They're too good. They've got black people lining up en masse to vote for Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders. Even writing it I still can't quite believe it.

Let's just take stock here: Young white voters are actually kind of voting against their best interests, by supporting a candidate looking to tear down power structures that certainly benefit them more than others and create a more level playing field, while black voters are backing one of the ultimate poster children for deeply entrenched and corrupt political power and privilege.

How did minorities get left behind in this groundswell movement that seeks to combat the excesses and abuses of the corporate class? Don't they realize it governs almost every troublesome aspect of society - the criminal justice system, the education system, the employment sector, the banking system? I'll never understand it.

You should read the article and then consider how this might sound to many minority voters. Sentiment like this is why the article was written in the first place.

 

[Valhelm]

I don't hate Bernie, but you're right, retrospective criticism is very easy.

I would've taken him over Trump in an attosecond of a heartbeat. Though I am encouraged by the support Hillary has from a diverse range of US citizens rather than a single specific demographic.

I don't think it's fair to say that Bernie only has support from a single specific demographic. Pretending that all of his supporters were young white men erases the millions of others.

 

[royalan]

If the lesson from this election is that minorities will from now on support the establishment, and that they can't be relied upon to try to help to change a corrupt and unjust system, that may just be the saddest thing I've ever heard.

Just how did the people in power do this? They must really be geniuses. I bow to their superior skills of deceit and manipulation. They're too good. They've got black people lining up en masse to vote for Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders. Even writing it I still can't quite believe it.

Let's just take stock here: Young white voters are actually kind of voting against their best interests, by supporting a candidate looking to tear down power structures that certainly benefit them more than others and create a more level playing field, while black voters are backing one of the ultimate poster children for deeply entrenched and corrupt political power and privilege.

How did minorities get left behind in this groundswell movement that seeks to combat the excesses and abuses of the corporate class? Don't they realize it governs almost every troublesome aspect of society - the criminal justice system, the education system, the employment sector, the banking system? I'll never understand it.

This...is a joke, right?

I love this.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Thank you, that kind of cuts to the point much better than the way I was saying it.

Bernie is a democratic socialist. Something a lot of us forgot is it's expected for him to not be anti-capitalist through that fact alone.

 

[ExVicis]

From my standpoint as an Asian, what I can say is that even if you hide your minority status you cannot run away from it. You can choose to not frame issues from a minority position, but once things actually matter, the first thing to be used against you will be your status.

Consider, for instance, that women are not even a minority, they can be well to do and well educated, but they are still discriminated against and often the first weapon used against them is their gender. One look at the result of the recent Stanford rape case will tell you that.

Being picky about 'framing' doesn't really help change the result. Republicans rattle on about how their message just wasn't being delivered right, and that's why they're not winning the presidency, but we all know that their message is reaching their voters just fine. It is unfair for minorities to be told by white progressive how they (the white progressives) know best, while minorities would have to stifle the 'framing' of the issue as one of race or ethnicity.

I think it's more helpful to be quick and blunt, and yes, this is a pill white liberals will have to swallow.

It's not something I run away from, it's something I don't think about when I'm by myself just because it's not something I have to think about. When I'm by myself my identity might be influenced by my being Black and Hispanic, but it's not the most important thing I think about. But yes when I'm no longer by myself it's very easy to remember and very hard to "run away from".

And you're right it is a Pill to swallow and even a hard one at that, but the framing of that language is indicative of the problem. That problem being there is that inequality and that people definitely think of Black Problems and White Problems being separate issues when it's more that we're fighting ourselves. That a fight within the Democratic party to support apparently one or the other is to fight ourselves. I think it should be viewed as such instead of the idea of "Black people will stop supporting your views if you turn on them". A quick and Blunt division I think should only be adopted if there is no other recourse and instead I favor the MLK idea of inclusion and togetherness as these being issues we all have to face, not jut some of us.

 

[bobbychalkers]

If the lesson from this election is that minorities will from now on support the establishment, and that they can't be relied upon to try to help to change a corrupt and unjust system, that may just be the saddest thing I've ever heard.

Just how did the people in power do this? They must really be geniuses. I bow to their superior skills of deceit and manipulation. They're too good. They've got black people lining up en masse to vote for Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders. Even writing it I still can't quite believe it.

Let's just take stock here: Young white voters are actually kind of voting against their best interests, by supporting a candidate looking to tear down power structures that certainly benefit them more than others and create a more level playing field, while black voters are backing one of the ultimate poster children for deeply entrenched and corrupt political power and privilege.

How did minorities get left behind in this groundswell movement that seeks to combat the excesses and abuses of the corporate class? Don't they realize it governs almost every troublesome aspect of society - the criminal justice system, the education system, the employment sector, the banking system? I'll never understand it.

Textbook reason on why this article exists in the first place.

 

[googleplex]

If the lesson from this election is that minorities will from now on support the establishment, and that they can't be relied upon to try to help to change a corrupt and unjust system, that may just be the saddest thing I've ever heard.

Just how did the people in power do this? They must really be geniuses. I bow to their superior skills of deceit and manipulation. They're too good. They've got black people lining up en masse to vote for Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders. Even writing it I still can't quite believe it.

Let's just take stock here: Young white voters are actually kind of voting against their best interests, by supporting a candidate looking to tear down power structures that certainly benefit them more than others and create a more level playing field, while black voters are backing one of the ultimate poster children for deeply entrenched and corrupt political power and privilege.

How did minorities get left behind in this groundswell movement that seeks to combat the excesses and abuses of the corporate class? Don't they realize it governs almost every troublesome aspect of society - the criminal justice system, the education system, the employment sector, the banking system? I'll never understand it.

That's is some yummy diet racism.

 

[ExVicis]

If the lesson from this election is that minorities will from now on support the establishment, and that they can't be relied upon to try to help to change a corrupt and unjust system, that may just be the saddest thing I've ever heard.

Just how did the people in power do this? They must really be geniuses. I bow to their superior skills of deceit and manipulation. They're too good. They've got black people lining up en masse to vote for Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders. Even writing it I still can't quite believe it.

Let's just take stock here: Young white voters are actually kind of voting against their best interests, by supporting a candidate looking to tear down power structures that certainly benefit them more than others and create a more level playing field, while black voters are backing one of the ultimate poster children for deeply entrenched and corrupt political power and privilege.

How did minorities get left behind in this groundswell movement that seeks to combat the excesses and abuses of the corporate class? Don't they realize it governs almost every troublesome aspect of society - the criminal justice system, the education system, the employment sector, the banking system? I'll never understand it.

I will say this is a prime example of the thing I was talking about. This is some honest to goodness, objectifying Black People as some sort of prize to be won and feeling like "being cheated out of".

 

[BinaryPork2737]

If the lesson from this election is that minorities will from now on support the establishment, and that they can't be relied upon to try to help to change a corrupt and unjust system, that may just be the saddest thing I've ever heard.

Just how did the people in power do this? They must really be geniuses. I bow to their superior skills of deceit and manipulation. They're too good. They've got black people lining up en masse to vote for Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders. Even writing it I still can't quite believe it.

Let's just take stock here: Young white voters are actually kind of voting against their best interests, by supporting a candidate looking to tear down power structures that certainly benefit them more than others and create a more level playing field, while black voters are backing one of the ultimate poster children for deeply entrenched and corrupt political power and privilege.

How did minorities get left behind in this groundswell movement that seeks to combat the excesses and abuses of the corporate class? Don't they realize it governs almost every troublesome aspect of society - the criminal justice system, the education system, the employment sector, the banking system? I'll never understand it.

"Am I out of touch? No, it's the minorities who are wrong."

This line of thinking is literally addressed in the article.

On top of that, they have been mocked by some Sanders supporters for supposedly “voting against their self-interest” because they refuse to believe a political revolution is at hand. That has been particularly galling to black voters who had to endure claims from conservatives in 2008 that they were voting for Barack Obama only because of race—even though they had spent their entire adult lives voting mostly for white presidential candidates. Now their preference for Clinton’s brand of pragmatism, something they’ve seen result in real progress time and again, is being questioned as well, this time by fellow Democrats.

The whole "evil establishment" narrative has really worn me out by this point, especially when it's used to belittle and dismiss the opinions and minds of minorities as being weak and easily fooled because they didn't want to vote the way someone wanted them to.

 

[googleplex]

Lol oh man! That post.

Thank God we ignorant black folk have enlightened young white liberals to show us the way! Obviously we can't be trusted what are own votes

 

[Not]

I don't think it's fair to say that Bernie only has support from a single specific demographic. Pretending that all of his supporters were young white men erases the millions of others.

I didn't specify the demographic that made up the bulk of Sanders' supporters as white men alone in that statement, and didn't intend to. That's your inference.

I'm mainly just commenting on the more even distribution of votes among women and minorities for Clinton. In the end, though, I'd prefer we all banded together despite our differences and disagreements and formed a utopian society (haha...) so any movement that even resembles that unachievable dream in a rudimentary incarnation appeals to the naive bright-eyed idealist in me. Not saying that I'd ignore all the feasibility and conditional factors in a scenario like that one once we got down to it, but I'd be admittedly much more biased towards it.

 

[pigeon]

I was going to make a post about how this is not surprising because it's the same conversation we've been having on GAF for the last nine months (and in a lot of ways it's the same conversation that most people of color have every time they step into a discussion about social justice, complete with constant demands to explain privilege from first principles with no assurance that the discussion is actually happening in good faith) but it seems like that discussion is going great.

So instead I thought I would make a post to help illustrate the difference between people viewing their vote as an affirmative endorsement of a leader and people viewing their vote as a tactical lever for controlling the country. I think this thought experiment will help everybody understand the issue and communicate perfectly. You're welcome.

---

Let's say you are standing next to a trolley that has gone out of control and is currently hurtling towards a single person. There is a lever you can pull which will divert the trolley so that instead it hits a car full of people on their way to the polls to vote for Donald Trump for president.

As a member of Correct the Record, you have access to Hillary's voter fraud app, which shows you that if these people get to the polls, Donald Trump will win the election.

Donald Trump has recently committed to starting a nuclear war with France as soon as he gets elected.

What do you do?

 

[Box]

I never found the argument that minorities are cautious and cynical to be very convincing. It feels like it's a case of:
I believe this -> I want to speak for minorities -> Minorities believe this
People just get the arrows backwards because that's the way brains work.

I have a simpler explanation for the divide. Bernie made free college a big deal on his stump. Free college resonates better with white people than minorities. Therefore his message resonated better with white people than minorities. If he had framed his economic message around how it affects minorities and maybe had been a person of color himself, then I imagine that minority groups would have been just as excited as white people if not more so.

The rest is just details and consequences. I don't think there's really a big rift here. Bernie was more popular with one group and less popular with another group. It happens. But I don't think we have a situation where we have to have economic reform pitted against racial and social justice. Much to the disappointment of Clinton supporters, I don't think Bernie's "revolution" will die due to lack of minority support. I think it will simply come back stronger and with more minority focus next time.

 

[teruterubozu]

I was going to make a post about how this is not surprising because it's the same conversation we've been having on GAF for the last nine months (and in a lot of ways it's the same conversation that most people of color have every time they step into a discussion about social justice, complete with constant demands to explain privilege from first principles with no assurance that the discussion is actually happening in good faith) but it seems like that discussion is going great.

So instead I thought I would make a post to help illustrate the difference between people viewing their vote as an affirmative endorsement of a leader and people viewing their vote as a tactical lever for controlling the country. I think this thought experiment will help everybody understand the issue and communicate perfectly. You're welcome.

---

Let's say you are standing next to a trolley that has gone out of control and is currently hurtling towards a single person. There is a lever you can pull which will divert the trolley so that instead it hits a car full of people on their way to the polls to vote for Donald Trump for president.

As a member of Correct the Record, you have access to Hillary's voter fraud app, which shows you that if these people get to the polls, Donald Trump will win the election.

Donald Trump has recently committed to starting a nuclear war with France as soon as he gets elected.

What do you do?

I'm sorry, but it's still the same conversation of the past nine months, just put in a different way.

 

[atr0cious]

If he had framed his economic message around how it affects minorities and maybe had been a person of color himself, then I imagine that minority groups would have been just as excited as white people if not more so.

He did this and lost because of it.

 

[Armaros]

He did this and lost because of it.

Reading the OP is really hard apparently.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

I think this thought experiment will help everybody understand the issue and communicate perfectly. You're welcome.

Bet you thought this was cute.

Let's say you are standing next to a trolley that has gone out of control and is currently hurtling towards a single person. There is a lever you can pull which will divert the trolley so that instead it hits a car full of people on their way to the polls to vote for Donald Trump for president.

As a member of Correct the Record, you have access to Hillary's voter fraud app, which shows you that if these people get to the polls, Donald Trump will win the election.

Donald Trump has recently committed to starting a nuclear war with France as soon as he gets elected.

What do you do?

So chance kills one person or I kill a car full? Who am I to mess with chance? Peace out France!

 

[Box]

Let's say you are standing next to a trolley that has gone out of control and is currently hurtling towards a single person. There is a lever you can pull which will divert the trolley so that instead it hits a car full of people on their way to the polls to vote for Donald Trump for president.

As a member of Correct the Record, you have access to Hillary's voter fraud app, which shows you that if these people get to the polls, Donald Trump will win the election.

Donald Trump has recently committed to starting a nuclear war with France as soon as he gets elected.

What do you do?

That's a pretty terrible analogy dude.

Like you've added the question of whether it's okay to use violence to overturn a democratic decision if you believe it's the wrong decision.

Fits more with the debate about violence at Trump rallies.

 

[Box]

He did this and lost because of it.

Really? He lost support from minorities by engaging with the issues that they cared about?

Or did he lost because he didn't engage enough, or because he engaged in ways that weren't effective? I'm finding that hypothesis a lot easier to believe.

 

[Cipherr]

If the lesson from this election is that minorities will from now on support the establishment, and that they can't be relied upon to try to help to change a corrupt and unjust system, that may just be the saddest thing I've ever heard.

Just how did the people in power do this? They must really be geniuses. I bow to their superior skills of deceit and manipulation. They're too good. They've got black people lining up en masse to vote for Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders. Even writing it I still can't quite believe it.

Let's just take stock here: Young white voters are actually kind of voting against their best interests, by supporting a candidate looking to tear down power structures that certainly benefit them more than others and create a more level playing field, while black voters are backing one of the ultimate poster children for deeply entrenched and corrupt political power and privilege.

How did minorities get left behind in this groundswell movement that seeks to combat the excesses and abuses of the corporate class? Don't they realize it governs almost every troublesome aspect of society - the criminal justice system, the education system, the employment sector, the banking system? I'll never understand it.

Sweet baby Jesus.... Im done.. just fucking done..

 

[captainnapalm]

Well I'm not going to win any popularity contests around here, am I. I'm already on the opposite side of the divide, though, so no harm done I guess.

It's sad if you see my views as racist, though or objectifying black people. I don't like to refer to minorities as some separate entity and not just people, but that's the starting point here so what can you do.

I genuinely don't know why people of all races aren't more together on some of this stuff. And if there's any postmortem to be done amongst people who were on the frontlines supporting Sanders' movement, the people who will need to carry on the fight against the abuse of power in the corporate and political establishment, then it should be on how to address that problem.

Because they're not going to be able to do it alone. Peoples movements need people.

 

[atr0cious]

Really? He lost support from minorities by engaging with the issues that they cared about?

Or did he lost because he didn't engage enough, or because he engaged in ways that weren't effective? I'm finding that hypothesis a lot easier to believe.

You should read the entire thread before posting again.

 

[Frozenprince]

Well I'm not going to win any popularity contests around here, am I. I'm already on the opposite side of the divide, though, so no harm done I guess.

It's sad if you see my views as racist, though or objectifying black people. I don't like to refer to minorities as some separate entity and not just people, but that's the starting point here so what can you do.

I genuinely don't know why people of all races aren't more together on some of this stuff. And if there's any postmortem to be done amongst people who were on the frontlines supporting Sanders' movement, the people who will need to carry on the fight against the abuse of power in the corporate and political establishment, then it should be on how to address that problem.

Because they're not going to be able to do it alone. Peoples movements need people.

#AllLivesMatter

Y'all really need to go outside your college world bubbles sometime.

 

[kirblar]

But the accusations are true. The party is corrupted by private money and the process is absolutely stacked against non establishment candidates. Hillary and her supporters have constantly ridiculed, talked down to, and villified sanders and his supporters, the same way she did to Obama in 08. That is what created this divide, if you dont yoe the li,e and support the party uncobditionally, there is something wrong with you. Nevermind if your grievances are actually justified.

Id also like to see what prominent bernie supporters called blacks low information voters. A few trolls on the internet dont represent an entire movement.

Sorry for the typos, my phone sucks.

Yes, the system is stacked against an outside like Bernie or Trump coming in and doing what Trump did.

It should be.

Obama came up through "the establishment". You have to work with other people to get things done. A career of complaining from the sidelines is not what you want in a leader.

 

[BrutishMrFish]

Hillary and her supporters have constantly ridiculed, talked down to, and villified sanders and his supporters, the same way she did to Obama in 08.

How can you have looked at the threats sent to superdelegates during the Nevada kerfuffle and say that Bernie's supporters are being wrongfully vilified? How can you look at the campaign's attack on AIDS activists (among other problems) and say that he's running a good, clean, respectful campaign?

Either some people are posting from an alternate reality, or they have the strongest persecution complex I have ever seen.

 

[Toxi]

Hillary and her supporters have constantly ridiculed, talked down to, and villified sanders and his supporters, the same way she did to Obama in 08.

Not at all. Clinton has run a very non-negative campaign in the primaries, deliberately avoiding attacking Sanders.

We're gonna see what a real aggressive Hillary campaign looks like now it can devote its resources to attacking Trump.

 

[Aaronology]

If he had framed his economic message around how it affects minorities and maybe had been a person of color himself, then I imagine that minority groups would have been just as excited as white people if not more so.

...you've concluded that most black people didn't vote for him because he's white or we just didn't understand how his policies would affect us. So ignorance on behalf of black voters is at fault here, basically, and not Sanders' horribly run campaign or his failures as a politician.

This is a thread about an article that is clearly written for so many posters discussing the very article in question here.

 

[Christine]

It's sad if you see my views as racist, though or objectifying black people.

Why is it sad when people correctly identify and criticise racist views?

 

[Box]

You should read the entire thread before posting again.

So I'm actually the only one who knows whether or not I read the thread.

I did read it, and the article too. Did I read every word? No, there were some parts that I skimmed. Do I remember ever word that I read? No, I read parts of it yesterday and I often have other things on my mind while I'm browsing GAF.

Now I could re-read the whole thread again and do an investigation into what you might be trying to communicate. Of course, whatever I come up with is going to be speculation. And we could keep going through this guessing game of me trying to figure out what you might want to say while you respond with vague statements.

You know I have an idea as to what your point might be. And if I'm right, then I don't agree with the arguments I've already heard. If I respond based on one of those, then it's what you'd call 'strawmanning'. I'd be responding to an argument that I already know how to address rather than what you actually mean. I think that's a waste of my time. I think I've already made a pretty clear post already that sufficiently covers how I want to respond.

Maybe you don't care and don't want to talk to me at all. That's fine. Just don't. You don't have any obligation to keep the back and forth going. But if you do want to, I'm going to ask that you be a little more cooperative.


If you're wondering why I spend so much text addressing your non-statement it's because there have been several people here who use "read the thread" as a counterargument and it really doesn't work.

...you've concluded that most black people didn't vote for him because he's white or we just didn't understand how his policies would affect us. So ignorance on behalf of black voters is at fault here, basically, and not Sanders' horribly run campaign or his failures as a politician.

This is a thread about an article that is clearly written for so many posters discussing the very article in question here.

That is not what I've concluded, quite the opposite. I think Sanders' individual failures are exactly the reasons why he failed to connect with black people. I'm not saying that black people didn't understand him. I'm saying that he didn't understand black people. What I disagree with is the idea that black people are inherently opposed to or suspicious of radical ideas. I've heard the arguments as to why people think this, but I think it's a pretty big leap to make without enough evidence. It's much easier to explain Bernie's loss as the result of him focusing on white people. That's why I think the "revolution" could grow to include more minority perspectives. I think that's what's generally called intersectionality.

 

[Kin5290]

Hillary and her supporters have constantly ridiculed, talked down to, and villified sanders and his supporters, the same way she did to Obama in 08.

Say what? Which was the side that was issuing honest to god death threats, again?

Hell, it's the Hillary supporters who have been afraid to identify themselves for fear of suffering from unrelenting online abuse.

 

[krazen]

I have a simpler explanation for the divide. Bernie made free college a big deal on his stump. Free college resonates better with white people than minorities. Therefore his message resonated better with white people than minorities. If he had framed his economic message around how it affects minorities and maybe had been a person of color himself, then I imagine that minority groups would have been just as excited as white people if not more so.

Nope.

The problem is that he used the free college/economic equality as the answer to any direct questions on how to confront race. The problem is minorities have heard about how economics/scholastic "legs up" would help cure their ills in the inner city for decades and it never materialized. They saw themselves redlined out of "good" neighborhoods + schools into urban areas with token projects (stadiums!) representing economic development...until gentrification came to push them out and showed what real economic development looks like if the powers that be cared.

You've got black college grads having the same odds of getting jobs as white high school drop outs...education helps but it is a thoughtless answer to confronting America's biases.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanad...-jobs-as-black-college-students/#3e84d4b962f2

A black pol/someone with understanding would not have even brought it up because they would know it doesnt work.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Hillary and her supporters have constantly ridiculed, talked down to, and villified sanders and his supporters, the same way she did to Obama in 08.

And there's plenty more from where that came from.

Yeah yeah "not all Bernie fans" I get that, but this shit and everything else like it is the legacy that they would be remembered by.

 

[jack_package_200]

Say what? Which was the side that was issuing honest to god death threats, again?

Hell, it's the Hillary supporters who have been afraid to identify themselves for fear of suffering from unrelenting online abuse.

This.

I chose to not vocalize my support of Hillary in person or on social media due to the fact that I don't want be spammed with stupid shitty memes and be called a corporate shill. I didn't want to engage with people who believe in every stupid "she stole the election" conspiracy theory.

We are the true silent majority

 

[Piecake]

This.

I chose to not vocalize my support of Hillary in person or on social media due to the fact that I don't want be spammed with stupid shitty memes being called a corporate shill. I didn't want to engage with people who believe in every stupid "she stole the election" conspiracy theory.

We are the true silent majority

Well, except here on GAF

 

[eBay Huckster]

gimme another OT poll before i come to any conclusions regarding whether this really is a clinton-dominated hellscape

 

[Risette]

Well, except here on GAF

This isn't true.

 

[jack_package_200]

Well, except here on GAF

GAF is pretty small in comparison to Reddit or Facebook

 

[Piecake]

This isn't true.

Really? Seems like there are more Hilary than Bernie supporters on here

 

[jack_package_200]

Really? Seems like there are more Hilary than Bernie supporters on here

I might not be remembering right but weren't quite a few people banned when their contributions to the discussion were "that fucking bitch/lying cunt"?

I think many became less vocal when they realized he had no path to the nomination.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Well I'm not going to win any popularity contests around here, am I. I'm already on the opposite side of the divide, though, so no harm done I guess.

It's sad if you see my views as racist, though or objectifying black people. I don't like to refer to minorities as some separate entity and not just people, but that's the starting point here so what can you do.

I genuinely don't know why people of all races aren't more together on some of this stuff. And if there's any postmortem to be done amongst people who were on the frontlines supporting Sanders' movement, the people who will need to carry on the fight against the abuse of power in the corporate and political establishment, then it should be on how to address that problem.

Because they're not going to be able to do it alone. Peoples movements need people.

Try asking them? Like, maybe if you really wanted to learn, you could just listen to people.

 

[Box]

Nope.

The problem is that he used the free college/economic equality as the answer to any direct questions on how to confront race. The problem is minorities have heard about how economics/scholastic "legs up" would help cure their ills in the inner city for decades and it never materialized. They saw themselves redlined out of "good" neighborhoods + schools into urban areas with token projects (stadiums!) representing economic development...until gentrification came to push them out and showed what real economic development looks like if the powers that be cared.

You've got black college grads having the same odds of getting jobs as white high school drop outs...education helps but it is a thoughtless answer to confronting America's biases.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanad...-jobs-as-black-college-students/#3e84d4b962f2

A black pol/someone with understanding would not have even brought it up because they would know it doesnt work.

You make a good point and I think we're in agreement that free college as a policy priority is something that appeals to white people more than black people. Maybe the choice of word is confusing you. When I say it appeals more I'm not implying that white people appreciate more because they have a better understanding of the issues. My reason was actually because it's been my experience that state schools are dominated by white students. It's for these reasons that I'm suggesting that a economic reform that focuses in large part on free college isn't as appealing to black people.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

After all this discussion in this thread, this comment so late in the game utterly disappoints me.

But it speaks to the fact that many liberals/progressives do the same arrogant ignoring when minorities try to explain issues we have.

 

[MHWilliams]

We read it, we just disagree with the premise because it has no evidence and conveniently removes any blame from clinton and her camp in fostering the dovision in the party. Why is that so difficult to grasp.

Clinton's missteps would be the result of a different article, one that probably wouldn't be posted in one of the many threads about issues with Clinton. It's not difficult to grasp, it's just not the topic of this article or thread.

My apologies if I misread the tone in your opening post. It seems angry and dismissive, following with the definition of "rail": to utter bitter complaint or vehement denunciation/Complain or protest strongly and persistently about. If I'm an error, again, apologies.

I think the more interesting part of that is in the analyzation of why Bernie Sanders is supposedly not getting the minority vote they turn around and do the exact same thing they accuse him of doing. By saying "No no Bernie and supporters stop telling Minorities what they want. Let US tell you what Minorities want!"

It's basically a fight to say who is better at analyzing minorities as a faceless entity that apparently all acts, thinks and moves the same way. It's incredibly de-humanizing to see Black people referred to this way.

You miss the point in framing it as a "all X does this". The idea for the purposes of discussion is a statistically significant number of a specific group sometimes move in a specific direction. If an article posits a look at "Why Millenials Love Game of Thrones", it's a given that they're not talking about all millenials ever, so "I don't watch GoT and I'm a millenial" isn't really relevant. It's a question of statistics: "Why has GoT resonated with a large number of millenials" is the real, assumed question.

Especially when you're talking about elections, messaging, and voting blocs, the idea isn't to tailor to every single individual, it's to reach certain demographics (another word for a broad group) and sway them to your cause. To wonder why a message has failed, you first must quantify those who it has failed to reach. This is basic demographics and marketing, which is a large part of campaigning: a message unheard is not good.

I don't think it's fair to say that Bernie only has support from a single specific demographic. Pretending that all of his supporters were young white men erases the millions of others.

Again, not the point. People sometimes say that due to shorthand, but again, statistically, Sanders' supporters tend to be younger and white. This is backed overall by entrance and exit polls in various states. The younger category contains many minority voters and Sanders leads Clinton in those categories, but those younger minorities are only a small part of their overall voting blocs.

Given these statistically noticeable shifts, the question then remains: Why? This article attempts to answer that question.

 

[Htown]

If the lesson from this election is that minorities will from now on support the establishment, and that they can't be relied upon to try to help to change a corrupt and unjust system, that may just be the saddest thing I've ever heard.

Just how did the people in power do this? They must really be geniuses. I bow to their superior skills of deceit and manipulation. They're too good. They've got black people lining up en masse to vote for Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders. Even writing it I still can't quite believe it.

Let's just take stock here: Young white voters are actually kind of voting against their best interests, by supporting a candidate looking to tear down power structures that certainly benefit them more than others and create a more level playing field, while black voters are backing one of the ultimate poster children for deeply entrenched and corrupt political power and privilege.

How did minorities get left behind in this groundswell movement that seeks to combat the excesses and abuses of the corporate class? Don't they realize it governs almost every troublesome aspect of society - the criminal justice system, the education system, the employment sector, the banking system? I'll never understand it.

Guess we're just too dumb to know what's good for us.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

Wait the guy who mostly only got fake Democrat independents couldn't get minorities and that's the problem when the real candidate got them instead? It would be a problem if neither got minorities but then he would have won

 

[Frozenprince]

Guess we're just too dumb to know what's good for us.

One might say, low information.

 

[q_q]

How can you have looked at the threats sent to superdelegates during the Nevada kerfuffle and say that Bernie's supporters are being wrongfully vilified? How can you look at the campaign's attack on AIDS activists (among other problems) and say that he's running a good, clean, respectful campaign?

Either some people are posting from an alternate reality, or they have the strongest persecution complex I have ever seen.

This is my point though. Youre cherry picking what a few people have done and extrapolating it to the whole group. A Hillary supporter stalked and attacked female bernie supporters. Is that inddicative of all her supporters? Of course not. You need to admit you have a double standard when it comes to this. Its beyond depressing that youre content to villify people simply because they dont support your candidate. Im not part of the bernie or bust crowd, but attitudes like yours are part of what gave birth to that crowd.

 

[shinra-bansho]

NB The person who tried to libel a prominent AIDS activist wasn't just a "supporter" it was the campaign's edit: my mistake it was Warren Gunnels, a policy director, not Michael Briggs.