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[Antiochus]

A fascinating article on Politico exploring the benefits of the Japanese social political model compared to what's going on in the West right now:

http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...japan-terror-insularity-213807#ixzz45nSrp1ol

Japan has found a separate reality—a separate peace if you will—from the globalization paradigm that has dominated the West since World War II. The country’s experience over the past quarter-century raises the question: How open does a modern nation need to be in order to be “successful”? That should prompt us to ask, in turn, whether we in the West have been overstating the benefits of openness and globalization, and underestimating the virtues of social cohesion and stability.
All this warrants a fresh look at the long-tainted “Japan model.” At least as viewed by the West, Japan has spent the past quarter-century under a cloud. After the Japanese asset price bubble popped in 1989, the once-and-future “Pacific Superpower” (recall all those headlines from the 1980s, declaring things like “Your Next Boss May be Japanese&#8221 no longer interested investors, pundits and the media. “Japanese” traits such as lifetime employment, so recently lauded, were quickly reinterpreted as rigidity, risk averseness, and a general inability to deal with a new era of innovation that valued the individual over the group. In particular, it became an article of faith in the West to decry Japan’s insularity, whether economic or socio-cultural. Japanese society, ethnically monolithic and anti-immigration, was derided as fatally parochial in the new, modern borderless world.
Yet the era of Western superiority proved fleeting. The West’s vacation from history in the 1990s ended with 9/11. The crash of 2008 had the West scrambling to avoid economic collapse, and neither the American nor European economies have recovered anything like their buoyant growth of the 1990s. Fifteen years after 9/11, the fear of terrorism and the intrusive steps taken to counter it are a depressing overlay to daily life, yet the scourge of the Islamic State continues to grow and has now reached into Western societies. Meanwhile, despite the advantages of globalization, its costs and the socioeconomic damage done by the massive displacement of old jobs—especially middle-class industrial jobs—have been badly understated. Government approval rates in America remain at historic lows, and a majority of Americans believe race relations have worsened in recent years. The West’s complacency of the early 1990s has been displaced by a host of troubles.
Japan’s contrasting history during approximately the same time period—since the collapse of its bubble circa 1990—forces us to consider how open borders need to be, and to judge the trade-offs societies are willing to accept between growth and opportunity. Can a country be “globalized” and “modern” yet not “open”? Japan offers the example of a society that is willing to be less engaged with the world and to maintain certain socioeconomic barriers, thereby trading some growth for physical security and economic and social stability at home.

Similarly, to identify the sources of Japan’s physical security is not to embrace an anti-immigrant polemic. The history of the United States and even Europe is inseparable from immigration, but to welcome legal immigration is not the same thing as to call for open borders or to deny the importance of ensuring that a common culture and civil society is maintained and passed down to future generations. To acknowledge such cultural, social and economic questions is instead to demand a politics that is responsive to reality and not to the utopias of either the left or the right. It is to question how freedom and equality must be balanced against security and opportunity in an imperfect world.

What has been lost in the West is the understanding that openness and globalization are only a means, not an end. Japan’s different approach to both ideas goes back to its profoundly different view of modernity. In the West, ever since the American and French revolutions, modernity has been identified with the beginning of a new world, and the discarding of tradition. Since then, Western modernity increasingly became identified with the concept of openness to the world, moving from the realm of ideas and political philosophy to the field of economic competition, and more slowly to the opening up of the country to large-scale immigration. As the belief in openness sank deep roots, it defined both national identity and government policy, particularly in America, evolving into the idea that greater diversity, achieved through ever-increasing openness, result in greater national strength.
The concept of openness soon transcended national boundaries and evolved from a concern solely with the internal workings of a society to the idea of an integrated and united globe.
In Japan, by contrast, modernity has always been restrained by a tradition of social stability that goes back to the centuries of a feudal system headed by shoguns and emperors. Thus the Japanese have always viewed modernity more warily.

Japan really is different from the rest of the modern world, and while it is an almost heretical thought, perhaps it is time to consider whether Japan has made better national choices since the 1990s than we have given it credit for. It has succeeded in providing a stable and secure life for its people, despite significant economic challenges and statistical stagnation. It has done so in part by maintaining cohesion at home and certain barriers against the world. By comparison, America and Europe appear increasingly confounded by their failures to ensure sociocultural integration, keep their economies growing equally for all, and provide security in the heart of their great cities. When historians look back on global history from the 1990s into the first decades of the 21st century, how will they judge which nations were successful, and which failed to provide a good life for their people?

Yet compared with the problems that both the West and many of its neighbors face, Japan’s relative strength and stability should at the least cause us to rethink our assumptions about social and economic policy. The Wall Street Journal’s Jacob Schlesinger argues that, for two decades after the popping of the bubble, Japan’s leadership consciously chose a deflationary course for the economy, seeking stability and the minimization of social risk that would accompany radical economic restructuring. Only the return of Shinzo Abe to the premiership in 2012 reversed this long trend, as he actively sought to inflate the economy, privileging economic expansion over stability. The difference might be thought of as “value” policy versus “growth” policy, similar to stocks or mutual funds. The careful, moderate reforms of what is called “Abenomics” indicate that even the current government is seeking a mix of value and growth, again prioritizing social stability.
Despite decades of officially slow or stagnant macro growth, the real economic picture of Japan is better than many Westerners think. Writing in the Financial Times, Matthew C. Klein showed that, in the decade from 2005 to 2014, real GDP per person grew more in Japan than in the United States, Great Britain and the Eurozone. In the nearly quarter-century from 1990 to 2013, in other words, nearly the entire post-bubble era, real household consumption in Japan also grew more than the Eurozone, and behind only Great Britain, the United States and Sweden.

Economic data tell only part of the national story. Other measures show a picture of social strength. To give just a few examples, Americans are 16 times more likely to be murdered than their Japanese counterparts, according to the United Nations. Japan, with approximately 40 percent the population of the United States, recorded just 443 cases of intentional homicide in 2011, a rate of 0.3 per 100,000 inhabitants; while in America, 14,661 persons were murdered intentionally, a rate of 4.7 per 100,000. While gun control advocates point out that Japan has far more stringent gun laws than the United States, crimes of all kinds, especially violent crimes, occur far less frequently in Japan than in America. Japan is a more peaceful society because of factors other than regulation of guns. There are few debates over what it means to be “Japanese,” and different segments of society rarely seem to be at one another’s throats.
Japan remains a male-dominated society, yet Japanese women are among the most highly educated in the world, and they traditionally have controlled household budgets and family decisions. Moreover, as the Financial Times’ Klein notes, more than half the growth in Japanese workers since 2003 has come from women entering the labor force, even as the overall population has shrunk. Prime Minister Abe’s “womenomics” policy seeks to increase this number even more, as well as to break the glass ceiling in executive suites.
In education, Japanese students once again scored at the top of the global math, reading, and science rankings by the OECD in 2012. Americans, by contrast, scored significantly lower, 27th in math and 17th in reading, despite spending close to 30 percent more per student than Japan. Meanwhile, Japan’s unemployment rate is below 3.5 percent, which partly represents demographic decline, but also the strong work ethic and expectation that able-bodied citizens will be in the labor force. Sixty-six percent of Japanese aged 15-74 were employed, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis, while 63 percent of Americans aged 16 or older held a job, according to the U.S. Department of Labor, a number that has been dropping steadily since 2007. Japan is also far healthier than America and most European countries, ranking as the least obese developed country according to the OECD, while America is No. 1. Moreover, the number of suicides in Japan has fallen for six straight years, since 2009, and is down by a third from its peak in 2003.
Again, such statistics of social strength tell only part of a far more complex story. Yet they can be adduced to support an argument that Japan has more successfully dealt with its myriad problems over the past quarter-century than most observers have recognized.

What the author dare not raise, and only whispers, is that the entire Japanese political and social model of stability uber alles, which he extols, is entirely the results of a "xenophobic" immigration system that has been the de-facto bipartisan consensus of its leading political parties (both LDP and DPJ) since after WW2. If the author really wanted to tackle the vices and virtues of the Japanese system, he should have concentrated on their immigration policies and start from there instead of rehashing a handful of platitudes over and over in this article

 

[Count Dookkake]

I really think so.

 

[kirblar]

Japan is literally dying off because their birthrate is catastrophically low.

That is not something to emulate.

common culture and civil society is maintained and passed down to future generations.

What the author really wants is a monolithic society, something the US has never, EVER been.

 

[PinballRJ]

I couldn't resist

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I really think so.

DAMN IT..

 

[John Kowalski]

Watashi wa charisma man! Dess~

 

[Unknown Soldier]

All modern industrialized nations have a native birthrate below replenishment. But they also have a steady rate of open immigration which easily outpaces replenishment.

Japan, a very closed nation to immigrants, is facing a population collapse because their culture and society are so unfriendly to foreigners and immigration.

There's nothing to emulate in Japan except maybe online gamers being nicer to each other.

 

[Robot Carnival]

https://youtu.be/rZru_TywyME?

edit: dang, beaten.

but in all honesty I'm not sure that's the way. sure they are able to keep their culture relatively intact, but they also face a lot of problems, one of which is the birth rate being really low and the population is aging pretty badly.

 

[Soyongdori]

I really think so.

Time to toughen up the immigration law then.

 

[Fj0823]

What's the matter Onii-Chan?

 

[Slayven]

I really think so.

Good one.

Isn't the suicide rate of japan super high?

 

[FyreWulff]

ey i bet

. It has succeeded in providing a stable and secure life for its people

Well, as long as you don't run afoul of someone in power, as their justice system convicts something like 97% of people that go to court

It has done so in part by maintaining cohesion at home and certain barriers against the world.

this seems like weasel words for "traditional families = prosperity".

Japan isn't even in the top 100 countries for rights for women.

 

[Skux]

Japan ain't all sunshine and rainbows either. Low birth rate, aging population, high suicide rate, falling export GDP, huge government debt, poor work-life balance, bad human rights track record...

 

[Piecake]

Seems like a pretty silly article when you take into account that Japan's low birth rate and refusal to increase immigration is going to completely fuck them over in the future.

 

[duckroll]

The amazing Japanese social political model where:

- A good chunk of the population is unable to speak an international language
- The birth-rate is shit and the aging population is destroying the economy
- The country has lost practically every economic, technological, and manufacturing edge it once had just a couple of decades ago
- The young generations are absolutely apathetic to politics resulting in a stagnant political system dominated by either insane old men, racist old men, or both
- It is socially acceptable to deny war crimes
- It is socially acceptable for elected officials to dignify war shrines housing war criminals

It can go on and on. What an amazing social political system. Let's all go UGUU~

 

[LosDaddie]

Japanese men aren't getting laid.
So....nope

 

[8 X 11 Printer Paper]

The amazing Japanese social political model where:

- A good chunk of the population is unable to speak an international language
- The birth-rate is shit and the aging population is destroying the economy
- The country has lost practically every economic, technological, and manufacturing edge it once had just a couple of decades ago
- The young generations are absolutely apathetic to politics resulting in a stagnant political system dominated by either insane old men, racist old men, or both
- It is socially acceptable to deny war crimes
- It is socially acceptable for elected officials to dignify war shrines housing war criminals

It can go on and on. What an amazing social political system. Let's all go UGUU~

Pretty much this, and extreme Xenophobia though that could be put under the old racist men bullet point.

 

[teruterubozu]

Japan is literally dying off because their birthrate is catastrophically low.

That is not something to emulate.

What the author really wants is a monolithic society, something the US has never, EVER been.

Yup, plus manual labor is all being imported. The Japanese system is fucked in its own special way.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I think Japan is far from the perfect country to look at for how to run your society. From what I understand - which is mostly just online news articles - they have their own set of problems that we don't want over here. An aging population, people working way too much because they are afraid their reputation will suffer otherwise, worse women rights, almost zero immigration and a justice system that doesn't seem all that fair.

Yes, the West - which should not really be talked about as one thing when comparing countries, since the US has a lot of different issues then Europe, and then the situations in Northern and Southern Europe are also very different - has issues, but I don't think trying to copy Japanese policy will do much there. It will not solve obesity problems, growing economic divides, mistrust in the government and crime.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Lol, Politico trash to try to defend the white nationalism taking over the GOP.

 

[FyreWulff]

Lol, Politico trash to try to defend the white nationalism taking over the GOP.

it's a basic KKK/David Duke style tactic. You talk about how a homogenous country has it good because it's homogenous, and then about an hour later they'll spring the "africa for the blacks, asia for the asians, everything else for the whites" chant on you

really fucking sad to see politico entertaining that shit

 

[Slayven]

I really hate "We should be more like soso" arguments. Each country has it own unique population, history, issues, and hell geography, so a one size fits all model will not work. Sure a lot of countries have good parts we could learn from, but you can't just copy and past shit in life.

 

[Antiochus]

Yup, plus manual labor is all being imported. The Japanese system is fucked in its own special way.

One hears that advanced robotics are just a decade away from changing that manual labor paradigm forever in Japan

 

[Dirca]

I really think so.

Why has the thread continued after this post? I'm sorely disappointed in 80's pop music gaf.

 

[Kusagari]

I look forward to our Japanese future in America where:

an aging population doesn't have sex
a life-to-work ratio that will make us reflect on how good we we had it in 2016
suicide rates rise dramatically
women are treated like second-class citizens as sexual assault is rampant with nobody caring and women too scared to report they were raped
you are almost guaranteed to lose in the justice system regardless of innocence

 

[hydrophilic attack]

it's a basic KKK/David Duke style tactic. You talk about how a homogenous country has it good because it's homogenous, and then about an hour later they'll spring the "africa for the blacks, asia for the asians, everything else for the whites" chant on you

really fucking sad to see politico entertaining that shit

Politico has always had a heavily republican lean. This is just the next step

 

[G.ZZZ]

Japan in a sense is much more projected in the future than we are. Immigration can counteract declining populations only for a limited amount of time. Constant population growth is not a viable model of progress, the climate disaster of this century will prove it even more so.
Japan, with all its isolationism, has seen his neighboring countries improve much more than europe and the US have with their much more interventionist policies, mostly on the back of american decisions. China, S. Korea, Singapore are stories that don't have any equivalent in the west, and you could argue India fit in here too. On the other side, the middle east and north africa are a mess, Mexico has still the same problems of long ago, and south america has gone through a phase of profound instability (a lot because of the US C.I.A. operations) from which it still haven't recovered. Europe and the US are like a black hole that seems to make it impossible for neighboring countries to free themselves and progress.
Our mentality of "we are the greatest thing so we must export our models" will surely be seen as an utter failure by our descendant, under any kind of metric. Political isolationism seems to work best and bring stability to regions, and by extension, economical progress, even at the cost of local stopgaps.

On the other hand, i surely don't envy the blatant sexism, xenophobia, and general disgusting attitude japanese culture has toward work and life, as well as their ridicolous justice system. Is that a bargain that is worthy to make? I can't say so, on one hand you have wars and deaths (not on our own delicate soils for sure), on the other large swaths of a population being basically oppressed. What i can say for sure, is that it will be very interesting to see Japan's progress in the future. They have been in a depression for almost 40 years now and their population has declined significantly. They are a microcosm of the future that await all the world.

 

[Extollere]

The amazing Japanese social political model where:

- A good chunk of the population is unable to speak an international language
- The birth-rate is shit and the aging population is destroying the economy
- The country has lost practically every economic, technological, and manufacturing edge it once had just a couple of decades ago
- The young generations are absolutely apathetic to politics resulting in a stagnant political system dominated by either insane old men, racist old men, or both
- It is socially acceptable to deny war crimes
- It is socially acceptable for elected officials to dignify war shrines housing war criminals

It can go on and on. What an amazing social political system. Let's all go UGUU~

The old men will die, and the remaining childless otaku will elect their waifu to govern them. Only then will Japan become the nation it deserves.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Good one.

Isn't the suicide rate of japan super high?

Rivals the total US murder rate, IIRC.

 

[Somnid]

I'd worry less about population growth. While it isn't good for for most countries short-sighted economic social security policies, it will likely self correct through policy change and these countries will reach an equilibrium state. In fact, that whole line of thought is just another way government policy screws populations all over the world, your parents got a good deal and you're stuck with the bill.

Japan does have a lot of problems. They not only keep immigrants out but immigrants in the country are really constrained. Women's rights aren't good, they don't handle the disabled or poor very well either. But monoculturalism certainly does help keep the peace. Diversity tends to lead to schisms, if you can convert people coming in to do things your way then things can run more smoothly. I don't think this is really a good policy but it seems to be the state of things and important when comparing countries.

 

[Joyful]

The amazing Japanese social political model where:

- A good chunk of the population is unable to speak an international language
- The birth-rate is shit and the aging population is destroying the economy
- The country has lost practically every economic, technological, and manufacturing edge it once had just a couple of decades ago
- The young generations are absolutely apathetic to politics resulting in a stagnant political system dominated by either insane old men, racist old men, or both
- It is socially acceptable to deny war crimes
- It is socially acceptable for elected officials to dignify war shrines housing war criminals

It can go on and on. What an amazing social political system. Let's all go UGUU~

Pros: Anime

 

[Eggbok]

I really think so.

I love you lol.

 

[PillarEN]

The amazing Japanese social political model where:

- A good chunk of the population is unable to speak an international language
- The birth-rate is shit and the aging population is destroying the economy
- The country has lost practically every economic, technological, and manufacturing edge it once had just a couple of decades ago
- The young generations are absolutely apathetic to politics resulting in a stagnant political system dominated by either insane old men, racist old men, or both
- It is socially acceptable to deny war crimes
- It is socially acceptable for elected officials to dignify war shrines housing war criminals

It can go on and on. What an amazing social political system. Let's all go UGUU~

Uguu

 

[duckroll]

Hahahahahaha. Japan's "isolationist" policy? Don't you mean Japan's got-fucked-up-the-ass-in-a-world-war "policy"?

Trying to give Japan any credit at all for the growth and development of their neighbours is fucking laughable. Those assholes came and fucked us up half a century ago, and fucked our women too. Isolationist my fucking ass. If they didn't get bombed back to the stone age and then occupied by white masters forcing them to swallow their own pride, there would be no Asia today.

 

[Saucycarpdog]

or to deny the importance of ensuring that a common culture and civil society is maintained and passed down to future generations.

Exactly how does immigration affect 'Civil Society'? Plenty of Western nations have allowed immigration of other people from different cultures without descending into anarchy.

Why can't Japan be more like us?

 

[Chocolate & Vanilla]

The amazing Japanese social political model where:

- A good chunk of the population is unable to speak an international language
- The birth-rate is shit and the aging population is destroying the economy
- The country has lost practically every economic, technological, and manufacturing edge it once had just a couple of decades ago
- The young generations are absolutely apathetic to politics resulting in a stagnant political system dominated by either insane old men, racist old men, or both
- It is socially acceptable to deny war crimes
- It is socially acceptable for elected officials to dignify war shrines housing war criminals

It can go on and on. What an amazing social political system. Let's all go UGUU~

I kind of feel like the first 4 apply to many countries. Certainly my own (UK). Hell the 5th one applies to certain sections of the population as well.

 

[Dai101]

I really think so.

God dammit xD

 

[Piecake]

Japan in a sense is much more projected in the future than we are. Immigration can counteract declining populations only for a limited amount of time. Constant population growth is not a viable model of progress, the climate disaster of this century will prove it even more so.

No they aren't. Their declining population growth isn't going to stop at some magical population number. Their population is going to decline until they start having 2 kids per woman. Until that happens they are pretty fucked.

 

[diaspora]

Hahahahahaha. Japan's "isolationist" policy? Don't you mean Japan's got-fucked-up-the-ass-in-a-world-war "policy"?

Trying to give Japan any credit at all for the growth and development of their neighbours is fucking laughable. Those assholes came and fucked us up half a century ago, and fucked our women too. Isolationist my fucking ass. If they didn't get bombed back to the stone age and then occupied by white masters forcing them to swallow their own pride, there would be no Asia today.

Presumably by "us/our" you mean China/Korea that got fucked sideways by the Empire?

 

[Violet_0]

so, has the economy recovered yet in Japan?

 

[entremet]

Japan is literally dying off because their birthrate is catastrophically low.

That is not something to emulate.

What the author really wants is a monolithic society, something the US has never, EVER been.

To be fair, so is most of the West. Immigration is what props up the population above replacement levels.

 

[Quixzlizx]

so, has the economy recovered yet in Japan?

According to the article, the economy doesn't matter when you're ethnically pure stable.

To be fair, so is most of the West. Immigration is what props up the population above replacement levels.

Except the author is lauding Japan for something that only exists due to their lack of immigration, so it's a relevant distinction.

 

[KonradLaw]

There definitely are some big advantages to homogenous and closed societies. But USA could never become like this. It's on the very opposite side of the spectrum. Europe is most interesting, because there you can both aproaches existing, often in neighbour countries.

 

[duckroll]

Presumably by "us/our" you mean China/Korea that got fucked sideways by the Empire?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_territories_occupied_by_Imperial_Japan

 

[Somnid]

Exactly how does immigration affect 'Civil Society'? Plenty of Western nations have allowed immigration of other people from different cultures without descending into anarchy.

Why can't Japan be more like us?

While not anarchy all of these countries have lots of issues stemming from differences between cultural groups. Of course Japan also has those and screws non-natives over as much or more than other western countries, but the country-level problems are smaller because the populations are smaller due to those policies. So on a macro level it works but on a micro level tons of people are swept under the rug and their lives are no less miserable.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

The amazing Japanese social political model where:

- A good chunk of the population is unable to speak an international language
- The birth-rate is shit and the aging population is destroying the economy
- The country has lost practically every economic, technological, and manufacturing edge it once had just a couple of decades ago
- The young generations are absolutely apathetic to politics resulting in a stagnant political system dominated by either insane old men, racist old men, or both
- It is socially acceptable to deny war crimes
- It is socially acceptable for elected officials to dignify war shrines housing war criminals

It can go on and on. What an amazing social political system. Let's all go UGUU~

This. I can't even begin to understand how someone could pose the question when even a cursory glance at their numerous sociopolitical issues should definitively answer it (no)

 

[teruterubozu]

One hears that advanced robotics are just a decade away from changing that manual labor paradigm forever in Japan

Service jobs maybe, but a loooong way off for manual labor like construction, sanitation, etc.

 

[Soyongdori]

Presumably by "us/our" you mean China/Korea that got fucked sideways by the Empire?

Is this a joke? You do realize these two countries aren't the only ones where Japan committed mass murders and rapes?

 

[Technosteve]

Hahahahahaha. Japan's "isolationist" policy? Don't you mean Japan's got-fucked-up-the-ass-in-a-world-war "policy"?

Trying to give Japan any credit at all for the growth and development of their neighbours is fucking laughable. Those assholes came and fucked us up half a century ago, and fucked our women too. Isolationist my fucking ass. If they didn't get bombed back to the stone age and then occupied by white masters forcing them to swallow their own pride, there would be no Asia today.

Tell me what you really feel desu~~~~

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

They're also still reeling from an economic recession of over two decades ago, and facing an aging population with extremely low birth rates. So, uhm,...maybe not exactly?

TBF, I think they have a somewhat better policy when it comes to foreign nation support. We need to scale back a bit on Israel, for example.

Hahahahahaha. Japan's "isolationist" policy? Don't you mean Japan's got-fucked-up-the-ass-in-a-world-war "policy"?

Trying to give Japan any credit at all for the growth and development of their neighbours is fucking laughable. Those assholes came and fucked us up half a century ago, and fucked our women too. Isolationist my fucking ass. If they didn't get bombed back to the stone age and then occupied by white masters forcing them to swallow their own pride, there would be no Asia today.

I get the animosity people from other Asian countries have against Japan is very real, but c'mon, chillax a little here.