Elfforkusu
Member
I think this is addressed in the OP?
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Politico OpEd: Should We be Turning Japanese?
- Thread starter Antiochus
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That happened to a lot of economies after the war.
Their social structure which is currently built on highly socially conservative political apathy leading to corrupt politics hurting the country with a strong anti-immigrant bent, catastrophically low child birth, and extreme insularity from any other cultures.
What in the world is positive about this at all? Not to mention their work and educational structure is downright cruel and easily one of the least worker friendly in the world.
Don't let the video games and anime fool you, the social and cultural structure in Japan is AWFUL and is leading to its ever increasing irrelevance in the world.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Pretty much.
I can't see why anyone would want to use that as a model, even before you get to the widespread xenophobia and heavily ingrained sexism at almost every level of society.
http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXT...:1497618~piPK:217854~theSitePK:273812,00.html
I would say that Japan choose an isolationist policy. They used aid funds to retain a degree of international influence without actually having to spend any serious effort in their military, essentially free-riding on USA.
I guess they will just vanish and self destruct then?
we are on the brink on of an automation revolution. it could spawn a completely new economic model. They will try new ideas and make use of new tech until something works. the current decline is just a stabilization recovering from the huge growth of the 20th century.
New tech? Japan is stuck in the past when it comes to anything technologically related. South Korea and China are so far ahead at this point there is no way Japan can ever catch up.
Not sure what this has to do with my statement.
Dominican Power
Member
And what's crazy about women being treated like 2nd class citizens in Japan is that they're one the most educated women on the planet, yet are relegated to shitty work positions or being a house wife. And if you're a career woman, you get shunned for wanting to have both a career and a family. What a wonderful place.
Soyongdori
Member
This is pretty much the case in rest of Asia, not just Japan. But I see your point.
I actually expected the person who wrote this to already be banned for a moment.
juicyfruitas
Member
What is this nonsense?
The decline in population is due to people's desires to have less kids due to various factors such as expense, preference, time, etc. The current decline is certainly not a stabilization recovering from the huge growth of the 20th century. That is just complete nonsense. People make decisions for themselves. They don't make insanely personal decisions based on how much population growth that they think the earth can take. Absolutely everyone is a free-rider when it comes to how many kids they want.
Well, you can't force people to have more kids. That has been proven over and over again. What does impact personal decisions like that is to change the situation, circumstances, and culture that the people live in. Automation might be the change that results in people having more kids, but that certainly isnt a guaranty. You have no idea how that is going to impact family planning and neither do I.
I think it is pretty stupid then to avoid immigration when that immigration can increase economic productivity and stabilize the society. Yes, stabilize. Personally, I think not having enough people to fund all of the old and young dependents who rely on the modern day welfare state is a far more destablizing factor then introducing new and different cultures into the mix. Plus, that might help them eventually improve their issues with equality and tolerance as well.
TickleMeElbow
Member
That's a ridiculous statement.
Soyongdori
Member
They are. It's actually worse in SK as they have less amount of population.
this is just ignorant. they might not be ahead when it comes to consumer electronics and the latest popular fields like machine learning but in terms of raw infrastructure they are incredibly modern and I think that counts for more.
it seems you just don't like japan. anyone could say just the same things about usa or any other western country and make a valid argument for it.
juicyfruitas
Member
SK shares Japan's flaws but on steroids.
Lower birth rate
Higher suicide rate
Longer work hours
Lower wages
Spicier food
Sure it's all about economy. I'm confident they/we will solve that problem.
As for the immigration thing, I strongly disagree. I'm of the opinion that multiculturalism doesn't work(I live in sweden, a country where multiculturalism is policy), and while I have no issue with assimilation it's not something that scales well. I'm incredibly worried and pessimistic about our future here in sweden and europe.
Bboy AJ
My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
Well, if the Swedish population wasn't busy burning mosques, you might have a better shot at multiculturalism.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Sweden
It's amusing seeing the Turkish Working Union telling off Armenians in Sweden. Like some kind of comedy sketch.
And I thought the choice buildings to arson were Christian churches. Like the old days of black metal.
You don't solve it though. It is not something that can be actively solved by people trying to fix it. Things and circumstances shift and if those things and circumstances shift in the right way then the problem can be solved.
You arent going to solve it by building more daycares, giving people money for having more kids, etc.
It has worked alright and is continuing to work alright in the US, and I think the US is much better for it. Sure, some people hate it, but basically all of those people are either fear change, racist, or intolerant. I think those people can go fuck themselves. My knowledge about European politics and society does not go that deep, so for all I know it could be different there.
I don't even know how these changes would actually be implemented. This think piece seems to be tailored to make one think, "hmmm. No, probably not". Japan is a very unique case when it comes to modern countries; trying to emulate them, even if you wanted to, seems like a bit of a fool's errand. Japan and South Korea are going to be the countries who have to deal with the ramifications of population decline first, so that's what "the west" should be paying attention to. We all can't just keep growing forever.
Lol. For real, though.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Seriously I came in to say all of this. What is the author smoking?
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Dude... What's up with you, Duckroll?
Things are pretty rough, but just about everywhere in the world has their own significant problems right now. There's also plenty of positive things to look at, such as the low crime rate.
You talk about corrupt politics, but is there a single country in the world where the politics aren't corrupt?
Unknown Soldier
Member
Ah, so we're pretending that Germany, the UK, South Korea, etc. don't exist. Okay.
South Korea has an even higher suicide rate than Japan. The highest in the world as a matter of fact.
Bboy AJ
My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
This post is insane. What a poor tone.
you can't really separate the two, racism is prevalent because of the failed integration. that doesn't justify it, but that's beside the point. the core issue is that the mishandling of immigration has introduced economic and social friction that most likely will get worse for generations to come.
from a logical perspective I don't see how multiculturalism ever could work smoothly. Note, I'm not talking about superficial things like clothes and food but values and how we interact. Everyone needs to be on roughly the same page for society to function well or you'll have distrust and polarization, there is no way around that.
I never said such a thing. anyway, I'm confident that over the next 30 years or so technological, infrastructural and socioeconomic innovations will reverse the trend.
I love a lot of things about america, but a list of severe issues for your country would be a lot longer and more depressing read than for probably any other first world country.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Who is? Did that poster say that Japan is the only country to have made such an achievement?
"fucked our women" from a typically level-headed mod. Just disappointing.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
Well, surely the UK isn't having a problem with that first one, given that English counts as an international language, right?
Not in the masculine possessive sense, but in the sense of "members of the country that we live in" is the interpretation of it though?
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Thread got ugly. Really ugly.
The article's pretty transparent about wanting to Make America Great Again by mimicking some of the worst aspects of Japan but cot damn at that first page
The article's pretty transparent about wanting to Make America Great Again by mimicking some of the worst aspects of Japan but cot damn at that first page
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Just making sure this was the first reply. Well done, GAF.
Dash_Riprock
Member
Yeah its amazing how much free money a government has when another bigger government is literally paying for their entire defense budget.
I know this is a sensitive subject but c'mon.
EdwardTeach
Member
So much moaning about the declining birth rate. I think it is a good thing. Requiring or desiring that populations continue to rise is not sustainable.
How can you possibly have longer hours than Japan, that's cray
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Korea's situation is really sad from what I've heard. Even higher competition and societal pressure when it comes to the "good jobs," too.
In Asia, Japan was unique in the way it bounced back from total defeat. Korea's achievements are also impressive, but they happened in a larger time frame. As for Germany and UK, their economy and infrastucture was rather advanced (the industrial revolution etc.) at the time. Compare Japan to any other asian country in the 60s, rather than European countries.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
How do you even write this article while completely ignoring reality? Japan needs to be more like the rest of the world.
What if you replace Japan with Nazi Germany? Should we give Germany credit for taking a hands off approach to Europe and allowing them to grow economically?
I don't think anyone would have an issue with anyone abusing the shit out of a person who takes a stance like that, but why do people object to it when it is about Japan? I think the common conception is that Japanese conquest was all about empire, which doesnt seem totally immoral if you only think about it for a second, but many people fail to remember that the atrocities that they committed in East and Southeast Asia were vast, numerous, and horrendous.
Soyongdori
Member
Every countries in the world should be more like Canada and hint of Scandinavian countries.
I think that it's possible for Japan to recover from all their messes. However, it'll require that they take on measures that change the country at an intrinsic level. It'll be a change as big as the Meiji Restoration or the post-WWII reforms.
Japan has one of the worst social and political systems in the developed world. That's one of the reasons why they've been stuck in a recession since 1989, and lack the political will do anything about it.
But how many of those hours are essentially 'Sitting on reddit' style hours at work?
Well, it is poor word choice. Duckroll should have said "raped our women".
darkhunger
Member
Eh, it's one of the safest place in the world, one of the cleanest and most orderly as well. It's level of dedication to providing customer service is simply amazing, and even as a non-Japanese speaking Asian, I've never been in a place where people are as eager to give a helping hand the few times I visited; regardless of whether or not they speak English they will do their best to help.
Perhaps a lot of the more negative aspects of its society may rear its head if I stay longer, but there are plenty of good things there that other societies can learn from them.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Does it matter? You're still not free to go home and live your life as you please.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think things are great in Japan at all, but this "worst in the world," or even "worst in the developed world" stuff seems kind of crazy. I've only lived in the U.S. outside of Japan, but I do wonder how our "social and political system" is so much better... We've got our own host of horrible and awful problems that don't exist elsewhere.
timetokill
Banned
So you guys are saying I shouldn't go to Japan and teach English for a couple years? 
Better get a mod in here. Oh wait.
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