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[Baraka in the White House]

They're REALLY going to have to rethink the invasion system if they're going to make it where you can be invaded essentially any time, as tying it to a character's level like they've been doing is terrible.

 

[RK9039]

Or getting max level Pyromancy on a low-SL character. Those are great changes for PvP.

Yeah exactly, these were definitely issues I had with the game. Looks like FromSoftware has fixed these problems, I'm very happy about the changes.

 

[Durante]

They're REALLY going to have to rethink the invasion system if they're going to make it where you can be invaded essentially any time, as tying it to a character's level like they've been doing is terrible.

Why is it terrible? If you feel like it's terrible because you could get much more powerful than a starting character using means other than levels (elemental weapons, pyromancy), then it seems like they are tackling these issues.

 

[-tetsuo-]

So, only play in offline mode? Gotcha. That's how I've been playing Dark souls for a while now, anyway. Never has an interaction with another human in that game been beneficial to me.

This is why people don't understand why others think the Souls games are so good. They are hardly playing them.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Guess you never had a phantom show you the invisible platforms in Dukes Archives, or the shortcut to gaping dragon in the depths, or distract Kalameet while you chop off his tail, or a nice invader dropping a titanite slab or opening up the painted world shortcut, or an invader coming back as a white phantom after he kills you to help with the boss...

I sure wish I had met more of these kinds of people when I played. In my experience it was a 10/1 ratio of dicks to helpful players.

 

[.GqueB.]

I can't believe a lot of people here played Dark Souls co-op. I feel like that breaks the game. I don't mind summoning for some boss fights, but the whole game? Seems like it would make the game cake.

"Whole game" is a weighted statement here especially since it was open world. There were plenty of sections I played through alone because I always went through every level hollow first so I could explore the level not worrying about invasion. But at some point I did play just about every section summoned since I liked to replay areas and such. The only area I didn't was Sens Fortress because that was more about carefully traversing the level rather than having someone with you. Seemed pointless since I would just watch people die over and over again.

I was very careful in this game and rarely thought it was all that "hard". I did much of Andor Londo (post stupid archers), Sen's, and Blight town without dying because I was such a patient coward in this game. Paid off though of course.

 

[Jarsonot]

Loved Demon's, loved Dark.

I thought both were pretty difficult, some times more than others, but I persevered and was able to overcome. =)

I think From made great balancing decisions, and made a great difficult but beatable game. I was able to overcome the obstacles they put in my way.

But. I'm NEVER on leaderboards. Not high up enough to matter anyway. Many other people are better at gaming than I am. Many. A lot.

And now I have to try to overcome From's obstacles AND beat those people, who are probably better than I am... I'm going to die a lot, and when I get invaded I will most likely die.

Or I'll be forced to be in that covenant, or die...

I'm going to trust that we don't have all the information yet, and we don't know all the options available to us.

I trust you, From!

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Why is it terrible? If you feel like it's terrible because you could get much more powerful than a starting character using means other than levels (elemental weapons, pyromancy), then it seems like they are tackling these issues.

I hope so, and I kind of hope the solution goes beyond just, "Well at least you'll have an little easier time summoning help now."

 

[nbthedude]

Why are you trying to dictate how others should play their game? The fact the game allows summons to take place is enough that co-op is a way to play the game. Yes, I get it - for the most pure experience, single player is the way to go. But it doesn't mean it is the only way. This elitist mentality is absolutely ridiculous. Games are meant to be played for fun, not some egotistical dick riding contest to show your 'macho gaming skills'.

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. If that's how he wants to play the game, then he should damn right be allowed to.

Depends on what you mean by he should "be allowed to." Is it mean for game designers not to allow you infinite health and infinite access to the best equipment from the start? Does it cramp your playstyle and freedom? Obviously if the game designers decide they want to create a design that discourages that kind of play, they have every right to. And that is clearly what they are doing. That was my point.

I'm not trying to have an elitist mentality, I'm just pointing out that they clearly don't intend you to play the game all the way through co-op. They intentionally tried to design it so you couldn't and now they are just trying to patch the holes that people exploited in the first game to allow them to play that way.

 

[LogicStep]

I don't mind getting invaded at any time so long as they rework it so overpowered low level guys can't invade me. It's pretty useless to fight back in those situations.

 

[ParityBit]

Why is it terrible? If you feel like it's terrible because you could get much more powerful than a starting character using means other than levels (elemental weapons, pyromancy), then it seems like they are tackling these issues.

There were many times where I would be trying to level (human) and get invaded. I would die, then go off as undead to try and level. I would rinse and repeat, getting invaded when I became human and dying (Cheating/better player/better gear I don't know). Then I would out level the area, and would be unable to get help with bosses without making forum posts and using chats to friends I had randomly met playing.

It was much more enjoyable/feasible to spend most time undead, some time human and jumping though boss fog when I wanted to live. I was able to manage it well. Now ... if you can not manage the invasions and it becomes a competition of e-peen prissys (which if you look at some posts here, it will be) because you can be invaded no matter what, and if you die while being invaded you get penalized, how is that even remotely fun?

I think the jury is still out on this.

 

[nbthedude]

I sure wish I had met more of these kinds of people when I played. In my experience it was a 10/1 ratio of dicks to helpful players.

On PC, I have to say my experiences were generally really positive.

Even invaders would often salute you before a fight or beckon you up to a particular arena to challenge you. They seemed to welcome a fair fight and even played by some weird chivalric codes much of the time.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

I'm not trying to have an elitist mentality, I'm just pointing out that they clearly don't intend you to play the game all the way through co-op. They intentionally tried to design it so you couldn't and now they are just trying to patch the holes that people exploited in the first game to allow them to play that way.

I'd like to think there's lots of things FROM didn't intend to happen that happen anyway in their games...

 

[RK9039]

GIANTS?! are in this game? That's a Demon's Souls reference, omg so many links with the Northern Lands. What if these world are connected somehow? That archstone was the only one destroyed in the Nexus, damn you FromSoftware.

 

[Deified Data]

I hope people don't get too upset with the invading while hallow thing. Maybe you can only be invaded if your in a convent or something like that so if you don't want to be invaded, just don't join a convent. I think that would be interesting. It would give convents a more fleshed out role in the game. Also you can always just play offline. I don't think its too bad honestly.

I'm guessing Hollow-invasion will be universal, with a covenant devoted specifically to protecting you from it.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

On PC, I have to say my experiences were generally really positive.

Even invaders would often salute you before a fight or beckon you up to a particular arena to challenge you. They seemed to welcome a fair fight and even played by some weird chivalric codes much of the time.

I played the 360 version and for me multiplayer became damn near insufferable post DLC. Your only hope of surviving most invasions is to grab the master key and sequence break like crazy to acquire and upgrade competitive gear.

Most peoples' response to that complaint? Stay hollow.

Well now what?...

 

[.GqueB.]

I sure wish I had met more of these kinds of people when I played. In my experience it was a 10/1 ratio of dicks to helpful players.

I had a lot of great experiences, even with invaders. They rarely just snuck up and tried to one up you. Some even waited for me to kill enemies before attacking. There were only a few douchebags.

I can't recall any bad experience with phantoms though. I think it took so long to get summoned that when you did, it made no sense to grief. It was a waste of time in a sense.

 

[nbthedude]

I had a lot of great experiences, even with invaders. They rarely just snuck up and tried to one up you. Some even waited for me to kill enemies before attacking. There were only a few douchebags.

I can't recall any bad experience with phantoms though. I think it took so long to get summoned that when you did, it made no sense to grief. It was a waste of time in a sense.

Well the server side multiplayer should definitely help with that problem. No more "summon failed" or unpopulated servers due to crappy peer to peer.

 

[nbthedude]

I played the 360 version and for me multiplayer became damn near insufferable post DLC. Your only hope of surviving most invasions is to grab the master key and sequence break like crazy to acquire and upgrade competitive gear.

Most peoples' response to that complaint? Stay hollow.

Well now what?...

I found the best solution when I was outmatched in PvP was to lead them to a dangerous area to fight on and try to cat and mouse them to their death. That was a lot of fun.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

I can't believe a lot of people here played Dark Souls co-op. I feel like that breaks the game. I don't mind summoning for some boss fights, but the whole game? Seems like it would make the game cake.

Yup it does. The AI simple does not know what to do if there is more than 1 person.

 

[eot]

It's worse when you get killed by the A.I., and while you are on your jolly way to reclaim your dropped souls, you get invaded and killed.

Fucking hate it when that happens.

I hate running across the bridge in the burg, trying to lock onto the guys in the room ahead but locking on to one of the guys throwing firebombs from the ledge, so the camera swivels around to the left and I fall off the bridge.

 

[tokkun]

There were many times where I would be trying to level (human) and get invaded. I would die, then go off as undead to try and level. I would rinse and repeat, getting invaded when I became human and dying (Cheating/better player/better gear I don't know). Then I would out level the area, and would be unable to get help with bosses without making forum posts and using chats to friends I had randomly met playing.

It was much more enjoyable/feasible to spend most time undead, some time human and jumping though boss fog when I wanted to live. I was able to manage it well. Now ... if you can not manage the invasions and it becomes a competition of e-peen prissys (which if you look at some posts here, it will be) because you can be invaded no matter what, and if you die while being invaded you get penalized, how is that even remotely fun?

I think the jury is still out on this.

How is it fun to get killed over and over by the Anor Londo archers?
Or by S&O?
Or lose half your HP when you go from Soul form to Body form?
Or lose half your HP by being cursed?
Or have your weapon's break?
Or getting toxic from the guys shooting darts off screen?
Or walking through an environment that poisons you?
Or having some guy kill your NPC vendors?

It's not like the game wasn't brutal and punishing to the player in the single-player experience. You learn, adapt, and get better to overcome these things. The same is true for PvP. Understand why people are beating you. Learn skills and tactics for fighting other players. Know what counters different builds.

Keep in mind that the player already has several possible advantages over the invader in the old system. The player can be a higher level. The player can use Estus Flasks. Most of all, the player can summon 2 blue phantoms. It is pretty hard to win a one-on-three fight as the invader.

 

[H_Prestige]

They're REALLY going to have to rethink the invasion system if they're going to make it where you can be invaded essentially any time, as tying it to a character's level like they've been doing is terrible.

Every time you're invaded you will automatically get a blue phantom to help you. Maybe two. If it works as intended, invasions might end up less scary in DS2 compared to the first two games.

After delivering two games, I think From should be allowed some trust. I'm sure they thought this through and have tested it.

 

[SargerusBR]

GIANTS?! are in this game? That's a Demon's Souls reference, omg so many links with the Northern Lands. What if these world are connected somehow? That archstone was the only one destroyed in the Nexus, damn you FromSoftware.

1- Demons Souls and Dark Souls are NOT connected at all
2- There are giants in Dark Souls, i.e the Boulder Giants in Sen's Fortress,the Giant Blacksmith and Hawkeye Gough

 

[Sullichin]

I played the 360 version and for me multiplayer became damn near insufferable post DLC. Your only hope of surviving most invasions is to grab the master key and sequence break like crazy to acquire and upgrade competitive gear.

Most peoples' response to that complaint? Stay hollow.

Well now what?...

Post DLC? You mean when you can easily have fully upgraded gear available?

PVP is far less balanced at lower levels, which should hopefully be improved now that elemental scaling seems to be tied to int/faith.

 

[Ventilaator]

[*]White phantoms now have a limited duration, may have to leave sooner if they do too much work for the host player.

This is great and I love this because this is awesome. Getting invaded while hollow is bullshit, and there'd better be a bunch of conditions for that to work.

 

[RK9039]

1- Demons Souls and Dark Souls are NOT connected at all
2- There are giants in Dark Souls, i.e the Boulder Giants in Sen's Fortress,the Giant Blacksmith and Hawkeye Gough

I know, but there's usually throwbacks and other references. Clearly the Giants which are referred to in the Dark Souls 2 beta are the ones from the Tomb of Giants. That makes the most sense.

Some links/similarities with Demon's Souls and Dark Souls: Patches the Hyena, Old Monk reference in the Painted World, Sparkly/Snuggly the Crow and a few others.

 

[Vivie]

This is great and I love this because this is awesome. Getting invaded while hollow is bullshit, and there'd better be a bunch of conditions for that to work.

Well you can always play off line, it's always my preference on my first run through either game. No summons, hints/msgs.
Also if you can be invaded in undead form, it stands to figure you can also summon help undead now too.

 

[Soriku]

Have to love the initial reactions to this game being "it's gonna be too easy!" and now the reactions are at "oh god it's too hard!"

I'm sure they'll balance things well enough.

 

[masterkajo]

I can't believe a lot of people here played Dark Souls co-op. I feel like that breaks the game. I don't mind summoning for some boss fights, but the whole game? Seems like it would make the game cake.

I played through the game as intended. Then I told my best friend about it b/c I loved it so much. He was interested, though he never plays single player games ever. He is just too lazy and rather watches TV or goes to play Diablo 3 or WoW with his online buddies.

The only time when he plays single player games is when I am either there right next to him (and often play while he watches) or if the game has coop and I can play with him. That is just the way he is. I never managed to change him. Regardless, thanks to DSfix and DSCfix I was able to coop the majority of Dark Souls with him and he loved it. He just never played when I wasn't around. We even discussed lore and characters etc.

So, I will play through Dark Souls 2 "alone" and then hope to be able to play coop with him so he can experience the game also. Therefore, I am really hoping that the time limit won't be a big deal (I can hold back and let him kill enemies) or that there may be a covenant that allows for enhanced cooping.

 

[Romars202129]

How is it fun to get killed over and over by the Anor Londo archers?
Or by S&O?
Or lose half your HP when you go from Soul form to Body form?
Or lose half your HP by being cursed?
Or have your weapon's break?
Or getting toxic from the guys shooting darts off screen?
Or walking through an environment that poisons you?
Or having some guy kill your NPC vendors?

Online guys have never been able to kill npcs. Heck, black phantoms couldn't even kill your enemies in Dark. As for the other stuff, it's not fun to have it happen to you. It's fun to conquer it.
I mean, it goes all the way back to the origin of games. Why is it fun to haave holes in Mario? To jump over them!

 

[Red Liquorice]

Or having some guy kill your NPC vendors?

This isn't even possible.

 

[tokkun]

Online guys have never been able to kill npcs.

This isn't even possible.

Who said other players? I put it in a list of bad stuff that can happen to you in single-player. I was talking about

Spoiler

Lautrec & Yurt

.

 

[Romars202129]

Who said other players? I put it in a list of bad stuff that can happen to you in single-player. I was talking about

Spoiler

Lautrec & Yurt

.

When do they kill vendors? I loved both those events, btw, so I'm just asking out of curiosity. I disagree with your idea that that is 'bad'.

 

[Trogdor1123]

It would suck to be invaded with only 50% health...

 

[.GqueB.]

It would suck to be invaded with only 50% health...

Play offline ^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^_^

































^_^

 

[SargerusBR]

It would suck to be invaded with only 50% health...

I would view this not with "Oh god this sucks, this is so unfair" mentality, more like:

"Nice, a new challenge for me to conquer."

 

[Deified Data]

I hate running across the bridge in the burg, trying to lock onto the guys in the room ahead but locking on to one of the guys throwing firebombs from the ledge, so the camera swivels around to the left and I fall off the bridge.

You know From put that gap in the bridge there for the express purpose of their lock-on mechanism going nuts and sending you running to your death.

This isn't even possible.

I think he's talking about standing next to the giant blacksmith and trying to trick the host into aggro'ing him.

 

[Deified Data]

DP

 

[Trogdor1123]

I would view this not with "Oh god this sucks, this is so unfair" mentality, more like:

"Nice, a new challenge for me to conquer."

it would still suck lol

Also its only unfair if you cant do it yourself.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Need the source of this gif, its amazing

Martyr's brigade?

 

[Mupod]

Have to love the initial reactions to this game being "it's gonna be too easy!" and now the reactions are at "oh god it's too hard!"

I'm sure they'll balance things well enough.

Difficulty from the game and difficulty caused by other players are two very different things. There's a lot of people who like the Souls series that have little interest in PVP, especially considering its history of griefing and broken-ass nonsense. Not to mention how infested the PC version is with cheaters, not that there aren't any on consoles.

But really it's too early to say anything. We don't know how the game will work quite yet and things could change during the beta.

I believe it's because they like its predecessor so much. Therefore, every small change sounds like it could "ruin" the experience. I find myself falling into the same trap if I'm not careful.

In my case it's because I know From Software is anything but consistent (souls series notwithstanding so far). My hype levels for Armored Core 5 were through the roof, every change they were making to the basic systems sounded great. Then I actually played it and it was insanely unbalanced, horrible singleplayer, confusing and completely dead multi...

Not just that game either, and I have no idea how they move around team members for each title, but I'm still not ever going to be totally convinced that they can do no wrong. I'm still quite optimistic for Dark Souls 2 of course.

 

[tokkun]

When do they kill vendors? I loved both those events, btw, so I'm just asking out of curiosity. I disagree with your idea that that is 'bad'.

For example, killing some of the NPCs in the Nexus who sell spells. If you want to know exactly when those kills happen, look at the Demons Souls wiki.

Anyway, the point of the list was not that those things are "bad", it was that the prospect of getting killed by an invader is no more brutal or punishing than the stuff that already happens in the single-player component.

 

[Cmerrill]

Unless they get with it and release the game on the PS4, I'm not buying Dark Souls 2. It saddens me, but I'm not going back to the PS3 after I own my PS4.

I have the platinum for both previous Souls games.

 

[Mejilan]

I played DeS and DaS 100% offline.
Guess that won't be changing for DaS2!
Cannot wait!

 

[Maffis]

Can't say I'm a big fan of the HP-reduction. I had a hard time coping with Dark Souls because of the damn petrification penalty.

Also, forcing us to go offline to stop invasions doesn't seem that fun. I still want to see messages from other players. Well, I guess this game isnt for me anymore.

 

[cleveridea]

always played dark souls offline, so the hollow invasion doesnt bite

 

[kozmo7]

All these people crying about how the game was being made for "casuals", and now we have people bitching about the game possibly being too hard?

Welcome to not being able to please everyone. I'm glad From isn't compromising the game they want to make. The Souls series is a certain type of game that, from its inception, was not made for everyone. I don't think those that are complaining read that much about Dark Souls II because there is a lot of great info out there. EpicNameBro on Youtube is constantly discussing details on these games, and he makes some valid comments and great info finds.

Its off-topic, but the problem is this ever growing self-important idealism that we, the "hardcore" are guilty of.

 

[Orayn]

Unless they get with it and release the game on the PS4, I'm not buying Dark Souls 2. It saddens me, but I'm not going back to the PS3 after I own my PS4.

I have the platinum for both previous Souls games.

FROM said they were interested, so there's a good chance of a next-gen GOTY edition.

 

[Cmerrill]

FROM said they were interested, so there's a good chance of a next-gen GOTY edition.

I sure hope. Hopefully not 2 years down the line.