Support NeoGAF

[Toxi]

EDIT: don't want to quote that poster now that he's banned

 

[brandnew]

Yes, there are more than two people there.

I supposed you're right. According to the FEZ credits its around 7 or so? Unless I'm being completely ignorant....

I'm assuming these credits are pretty exhaustive when it comes to Polytron employees since it's the only game the studio released.

 

[Nome]

This entire story is heavily centered around a tiny subset of people looking to cause chaos and revel in it; Kotaku and other such sites might actually be showing restraint by not giving them the attention they're craving. Also, since this issue is about Phil's personal info being blasted all over the net, it's probably better that less people are aware of it.

That might be highly presumptuous, but I think that's a safe guess as to why the big sites are being silent (at least until things settle down).

Or because one of the people involved works at Kotaku?

 

[Kuldar]

People are afraid to cover it. That's the point of actions like these, to scare people into shutting up. We have people posting photos of mods on this board along with harassing private details. We have mods who are considering quitting, rather than put up with it. That is the entire point of these little shitbags. If they can scare Fish and Quinn out of the industry, they can scare anyone out. No one wants their loved ones dragged into this shit.

Holy shit, that's insane.

 

[ColR100]

It's been a very hard week for game developers like myself. The general malaise among everyone I know in the industry is worrying. There is a real fear & perception that anyone is fair game for being targeted now for speaking up about anything, or tackling more social/personal issues in the gaming spectrum, especially in the independent scene

I think that's quite a hyped up statement myself. 'A hard week for game developers'. Not from what I've seen, everyone's happy that Gamescom went smoothly and is taking holiday. One of the biggest game developer forums hasn't even mentioned this whole topic this week, so it shows where the real audience is right now. The games press so happen to be peddling the whole fiasco into insane levels at this point, while every minor indie developer is jumping in to let their voice be heard on twitter.

'There is a real fear & perception that anyone is fair game for being targeted' - who are these people? They need to pull their heads out of 'you know where'. The creator of Fez, surely it's understandable why he would be targeted....I can't imagine your average developer has anywhere near as much notoriety/exposure as this fellow, so really, they needn't worry.

 

[TheHollowNight]

all I know is there was incentive for Phil Fish to make it seem like he was hacked too. By doing so, he helps protect ZQ by having 'another' doxing incident. This double protects his friend, who she allegedly had sexual relations with (the name eludes me... he worked on Fez). This is why he's been defending her from the get-go. I'm not saying it did or didn't happen... but there's *incentive* to make this all up or set it up himself. With that said, people on the internet are generally fucking scumbags and are even worse than PF, who I personally think has a personality disorder or two.

Are you actually for real?

Edit: Banned before I could even reply..woah

I think that's quite a hyped up statement myself. 'A hard week for game developers'. Not from what I've seen, everyone's happy that Gamescom went smoothly and is taking holiday. One of the biggest game developer forums hasn't even mentioned this whole topic this week, so it shows where the real audience is right now. The games press so happen to be peddling the whole fiasco into insane levels at this point, while every minor indie developer is jumping in to let their voice be heard on twitter.

'There is a real fear & perception that anyone is fair game for being targeted' - who are these people? They need to pull their heads out of 'you know where'. The creator of Fez, surely it's understandable why he would be targeted....I can't imagine your average developer has anywhere near as much notoriety/exposure as this fellow, so really, they needn't worry.

Practically every single developer and journalist I follow on Twitter has shared their malaise on the matter. Get over yourself.

 

[Prime crotch]

People are afraid to cover it. That's the point of actions like these, to scare people into shutting up. We have people posting photos of mods on this board along with harassing private details. We have mods who are considering quitting, rather than put up with it. That is the entire point of these little shitbags. If they can scare Fish and Quinn out of the industry, they can scare anyone out. No one wants their loved ones dragged into this shit.

That's why putting your real name on twitter is a bad idea, not to mention the whole knee jerk reactions that it accentuates

 

[JABEE]

People are afraid to cover it. That's the point of actions like these, to scare people into shutting up. We have people posting photos of mods on this board along with harassing private details. We have mods who are considering quitting, rather than put up with it. That is the entire point of these little shitbags. If they can scare Fish and Quinn out of the industry, they can scare anyone out. No one wants their loved ones dragged into this shit.

Shit.

 

[GillianSeed79]

all I know is there was incentive for Phil Fish to make it seem like he was hacked too. By doing so, he helps protect ZQ by having 'another' doxing incident. This double protects his friend, who she allegedly had sexual relations with (the name eludes me... he worked on Fez). This is why he's been defending her from the get-go. I'm not saying it did or didn't happen... but there's *incentive* to make this all up or set it up himself.

Whatever imaginary "incentive" you think he might have over internet drama is far outweighed by the fact that his entire identity, personal information and finances have been released on the internet for anyone to steal, take and or assume. You would have to be insane to intentionally doxx yourself, whatever the hell that means, just to get sympathy.

 

[Derphoof]

Yeah, I'm done with this shit. I'm going to go play some actual games now.

 

[Hackworth]

Speaking of that: I don't want to de-rail the thread or anything, but is there a definitive "What actually happened" on the Zoe Quinn thing now? I was only really following that on the periphery.

Salty ex boyfriend posts a blog saying she cheated on him with people, some were journalists.

Despite a lack of parity to the timing, the wider internet has apparently decided that Quinn slept with people to promote her game (and now everything connected to her must burn to preserve the sanctity of videogames). There's a lot of slut shaming and misogyny involved, they're also digging up nude pictures, cracking her social media and work passwords etc.

Fish ran his mouth, and hacker(s?) decided he was connected enough to be worth destroying. Hence Polytron hack.

That was the state of things about six hours ago but I've slept since then.

 

[unbias]

That dnsdies guy really doesn't want it to be a hack...

Ya, he is being an asshole and a conspiracy theorist. Although if the FBI does get involved those questions are probably going to be asked or looked into anyways, so him figuring that stuff out wouldn't be a bad idea(although it looks like he is trying to get a handle on it, I hope he doesnt pull his hair out from all of this).

 

[Orayn]

Salty ex boyfriend posts a blog saying she cheated on him with people, some were journalists.

Despite a lack of parity to the timing, the wider internet has apparently decided that Quinn slept with people to promote her game (and now everything connected to her must burn to preserve the sanctity of videogames). There's a lot of slut shaming and misogyny involved, they're also digging up nude pictures, cracking her social media and work passwords etc.

Fish ran his mouth, and hacker(s?) decided he was connected enough to be worth destroying. Hence Polytron hack.

That was the state of things about six hours ago but I've slept since then.

This is a great summary and not much has changed in the last six hours, other than more conspiracy theories and some details about the hack from other people at Polytron.

 

[Fuchsdh]

This entire story is heavily centered around a tiny subset of people looking to cause chaos and revel in it; Kotaku and other such sites might actually be showing restraint by not giving them the attention they're craving. Also, since this issue is about Phil's personal info being blasted all over the net, it's probably better that less people are aware of it.

That might be highly presumptuous, but I think that's a safe guess as to why the big sites are being silent (at least until things settle down).

I dunno if that's the motivation, or at least not reporting it is the right thing.

The cases with Sarkeesian and Q., from the standpoint of shutting them down, didn't work--Sarkeesian got more money than she would ever need and at least for me, I'd never heard of DepressionQuest before this all happened. So from that standpoint it seems like a classic case of Streisand Effect.

On the other hand it's true some people's lives are being adversely effective, and harassment isn't fun, even if you're turning it into ammo for your cause. And the more people know about it the more people will be emboldened not only to help you, but also to join the fight against you.

So I dunno if there's a "right" answer on what the most moral thing to do is. I personally think you're better off reporting it.

 

[Altazor]

that post was like "guys, guys, I'm not saying it was a fake hacking but WHAT IF IT WAS A FAKE HACKING GUYS? PHIL FISH HAS EVERYTHING TO GAIN WITH THIS FAKE HACKING STUFF even though I'm not saying that it was fake, but IT COULD HAVE BEEN"

 

[striferser]

Phil hack himself?Oh Come on! He have bad reputation in twitter, rude as hell,, but he is not stupid!

People are afraid to cover it. That's the point of actions like these, to scare people into shutting up. We have people posting photos of mods on this board along with harassing private details. We have mods who are considering quitting, rather than put up with it. That is the entire point of these little shitbags. If they can scare Fish and Quinn out of the industry, they can scare anyone out. No one wants their loved ones dragged into this shit.

Holy....

 

[ColR100]

Practically every single developer and journalist I follow on Twitter has shared their malaise on the matter. Get over yourself.

I so believe you're the one who needs to 'get over yourself'.

And I'd hazard a guess that your developer follow list on Twitter doesn't exactly give a fair representation of the industry as a whole.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

People are afraid to cover it. That's the point of actions like these, to scare people into shutting up. We have people posting photos of mods on this board along with harassing private details. We have mods who are considering quitting, rather than put up with it. That is the entire point of these little shitbags. If they can scare Fish and Quinn out of the industry, they can scare anyone out. No one wants their loved ones dragged into this shit.

Jesus Christ, there is something wrong with this industry.

 

[Krejlooc]

People are afraid to cover it. That's the point of actions like these, to scare people into shutting up. We have people posting photos of mods on this board along with harassing private details. We have mods who are considering quitting, rather than put up with it. That is the entire point of these little shitbags. If they can scare Fish and Quinn out of the industry, they can scare anyone out. No one wants their loved ones dragged into this shit.

Really, and this goes without saying honestly, but this is a criminal case now. They need to throw the book at these people hard to make a point that this isnt just petty vidya gaemz arguments. At this point, this is causing real, punitive damage. Lots of it.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

People are afraid to cover it. That's the point of actions like these, to scare people into shutting up. We have people posting photos of mods on this board along with harassing private details. We have mods who are considering quitting, rather than put up with it. That is the entire point of these little shitbags. If they can scare Fish and Quinn out of the industry, they can scare anyone out. No one wants their loved ones dragged into this shit.

That is messed up. Fucking infantiles.

 

[Dezben]

"What actually happened" is that a lot of very personal things happened between Zoe and her ex that never had any business being made public, but the ex did so anyway.

The tenuous connection between these events and the games industry was entirely debunked. The people she supposedly "manipulated" for coverage never even gave her any meaningful coverage.

So that's it. Whatever hurtful things she allegedly did to her boyfriend are between the two of them and none of our business.

Actually, on a tangent of that I had also heard that she may have used DMCA to get a bad review of DQ pull off of youtube. Was there anything on that?

 

[Orayn]

Actually, on a tangent of that I had also heard that she may have used DMCA to get a bad review of DQ pull off of youtube. Was there anything on that?

No, that was never proven and it's easy to file false reports.

 

[soultron]

People are afraid to cover it. That's the point of actions like these, to scare people into shutting up. We have people posting photos of mods on this board along with harassing private details. We have mods who are considering quitting, rather than put up with it. That is the entire point of these little shitbags. If they can scare Fish and Quinn out of the industry, they can scare anyone out. No one wants their loved ones dragged into this shit.

Are you serious? I had no idea that the moderation staff of GAF has been target/harassed as well. I shouldn't be surprised that the same disillusioned "MRA gamer" contingent is equating effective moderation with censorship though.

 

[CambriaRising]

Actually, on a tangent of that I had also heard that she may have used DMCA to get a bad review of DQ pull off of youtube. Was there anything on that?

It hasn't been confirmed that it was her. Basically anyone can put those claims in under an assumed name. I doubt it was her.

Are you serious? I had no idea that the moderation staff of GAF has been target/harassed as well. I shouldn't be surprised that the same disillusioned "MRA gamer" contingent is equating effective moderation with censorship though.

It really is a scary idea when you think about it. I wouldn't blame anyone for wanting to withdraw from it completely.

 

[Kyonashi]

Yeah, I'm done with this shit. I'm going to go play some actual games now.

People still do that?

I thought GAF was where you came when you've stopped playing games and just want to argue about them on the internet.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Actually, on a tangent of that I had also heard that she may have used DMCA to get a bad review of DQ pull off of youtube. Was there anything on that?

It's entirely possible, I'd even say probable, but the takedown requests are private. So it could just as easily be a false flag by their own supporters! (conspiracy themes cut both ways...)

 

[jim-jam bongs]

People are afraid to cover it. That's the point of actions like these, to scare people into shutting up. We have people posting photos of mods on this board along with harassing private details. We have mods who are considering quitting, rather than put up with it. That is the entire point of these little shitbags. If they can scare Fish and Quinn out of the industry, they can scare anyone out. No one wants their loved ones dragged into this shit.

This is fucking bananas.

 

[entremet]

Digesting this stuff for a bit now, but this kind of bullying bums me out. Doxxing and harassing others. It's just sad and pathetic.

 

[Nome]

As someone who's been swatted and doxxed, the police aren't really going to help you.

People are afraid to cover it. That's the point of actions like these, to scare people into shutting up. We have people posting photos of mods on this board along with harassing private details. We have mods who are considering quitting, rather than put up with it. That is the entire point of these little shitbags. If they can scare Fish and Quinn out of the industry, they can scare anyone out. No one wants their loved ones dragged into this shit.

This notion is pretty ridiculous.

 

[Son of Cervantes]

People are afraid to cover it. That's the point of actions like these, to scare people into shutting up. We have people posting photos of mods on this board along with harassing private details. We have mods who are considering quitting, rather than put up with it. That is the entire point of these little shitbags. If they can scare Fish and Quinn out of the industry, they can scare anyone out. No one wants their loved ones dragged into this shit.

I think you're right and that makes this situation even more troubling as it indicates that these folks are totally willing to use illegal tactics to intimidate and silence anyone who dares disagree with them. And Gawker Media is a pretty big outfit, you'd think they would not be scared of this sort of thing, but I'm sure the Kotaku writers didn't get into this thing thinking they'd have to worry about being doxxed some day because they wrote a story about vidya gamez.

 

[adj_noun]

snip

 

[besada]

This notion is pretty ridiculous.

Which notion is that?

 

[BobTheFork]

In a nutshell: I don't like your opinions, so I will destroy both your company and your identity.


... disgusting.

I thought it was disgusting the way Phil reacted to people he didn't agree with. This... is really fucked up and a totally different matter. Before I got up this morning and saw this thread, I really did not like him and I think there were plenty of valid reason not to like him. I don't think my opinion of him instantly changed because of this... but FFS this crosses the line. So don't expect people that didn't like him to suddenly rush to his side.

However, personal opinions of the man are a completely different conversation then the one we are having about what happened here and really shouldn't be part of the discussion.

I would not wish this shit on anyone.

 

[ShinMaruku]

Yeah, this is really sad. No creator should fear their audience.

In some instances, yes a creator should not fear their audience, but I would not go to the absolute and say none should. People are complex.

That said, this whole thing shows the good that PR can do for you, if Fish that other lady and other invested or actually learned PR most of the flare ups could have been avoided. Now that is some shitty things done, but when you are dealing with people they are known to go great and terrible things.

There is a saying of "Bullying a dragon" sometimes there are people out there who will act. This is why you have a filter, now some people go too far in the other direction by being too PR but atleast they avoid the flare ups.

Maybe I spent too much time in the third world, but people using these tactics just didn't surprise me.. >_>

 

[Nome]

Which notion is that?

Sorry, should've elaborated. I can't imagine why *coverage* would make anyone fearful. Coverage is neutral; maybe if they gave an editorialized response there would be something to fear for.

 

[Eusis]

I'm in no way defending the assholes of the internet, but it's not like we're going to magically make everyone start being nice. He should just choose to ignore the assholes and pick his battles more wisely.

His site got hacked and his fucking personal information posted up for the world to exploit. Are you thick as hell? THAT is exactly the kind of stuff that makes anyone sensible go "enough, for my own safety I need to get the hell out of this." Or be more proactive to make sure it doesn't happen again, at any rate NOT the kind of thing for a small developer to just "ignore" like it's someone calling them names.

 

[goldsoundz]

Some people just don't have anything to do. I have no idea why all of this has been made into anything at all, much less being taken this far.

 

[-COOLIO-]

People are afraid to cover it. That's the point of actions like these, to scare people into shutting up. We have people posting photos of mods on this board along with harassing private details. We have mods who are considering quitting, rather than put up with it. That is the entire point of these little shitbags. If they can scare Fish and Quinn out of the industry, they can scare anyone out. No one wants their loved ones dragged into this shit.

wow, i didn't realize the mods were being targeted too.

 

[kinoki]

... this thread keeps on making me sad. The complete lack of empathy from certain people is downright scary. It's nightmare material that people are able to think and say some of the things they are.

 

[Corpekata]

Actually, on a tangent of that I had also heard that she may have used DMCA to get a bad review of DQ pull off of youtube. Was there anything on that?

Again, not what happened. The DMCA thing in question was not a bad review of her game, it was basically a video about this topic, claiming she'd slept her way to the top and whatnot.

Not that it deserves a DMCA takedown, but this is a good example of just how twisted and warped the narrative is.

 

[Krejlooc]

Sorry, should've elaborated. I can't imagine why *coverage* would make anyone fearful. Coverage is neutral; maybe if they gave an editorialized response there would be something to fear for.

The people doing this stuff are not rational in the first place. You should not expect a logical course of action out of people who will reveal information like this in the first place.

 

[Objectively Bad Opinion]

gaf staff is being harrassed?

 

[Dai Kaiju]

is it bad that i have no empathy for Phil fish in this matter

Yes, it is bad. Unless Phil Fish raped you, fucked your wife, or did anything horrible to you personally, you should probably find a psychiatrist to help you deal with your inability to feel for someone who is having their life potentially ruined over something so petty.

 

[vagabondarts]

This whole thing makes me want to distance myself from the game community completely.

There's no excuse for this kind of criminal bullying.

 

[Corpekata]

Edit - Eh, off topic

 

[unbias]

Some people just don't have anything to do. I have no idea why all of this has been made into anything at all, much less being taken this far.

It happened because they could do it, and wanted to show they could do it. Some of the nicest people I've met, in person, have been hackers who have done some pretty dirty stuff. Going to Def Con so many times, really lets you realze how addictive hacking can be to some, with the adrenaline rush from it and the abuse of power some enjoy. Dont get it twisted, this is about a twisted person(normally) wanting to flaunt their power over people and abuse them, simply because they can.

 

[soultron]

In case it hasn't been posted, Liz Ryerson made a pretty interesting post today on her blog that examines possible motives behind the week's events. Rather than simply condemning the people at fault, she attempts to understand why they did the things they did. It's a good read.

Also, I'm impressed how a large chunk of Reddit, seeing that the /V/ thing means it's not real because they would write it as /v/, has assumed it's just fake now largely. Not much consideration that perhaps a third party did it. Could only be /v/ or Phil Fish faking it.

Yeah, I'm totally sure that Renaud and Marie-Christine would be totally fine with that since they worked on FEZ as well.

 

[140.85]

gaf staff is being harrassed?

Of course. Pretty much every mod post that doesn't agree with them is being screen-grabbed and posted on /v/.

 

[Nome]

The people doing this stuff are not rational in the first place. You should not expect a logical course of action out of people who will reveal information like this in the first place.

I don't agree with this; I think they are very rational; in fact, they put their reasoning right on the hacked page. Whether or not it's *sensible* is a different question (it's not), and whether or not you agree with their reasoning (safe to say most of us don't) is also a different question.

 

[brandnew]

I would love to watch a day in the life style documentary about the person/people that did this whole hacking/doxxing thing. It would be the most terrifying thing. Even scarier than PT.