Dumb semantics aside, these people are lunatics. It's wise to err on the side of caution when dealing with crazy people.
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Polytron Hacked?
- Thread starter Hato-kun
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Dumb semantics aside, these people are lunatics. It's wise to err on the side of caution when dealing with crazy people.
Oppo
Member
I understand where you are coming from, as an older gamer myself.
But don't indict the entire medium. That's like getting mad at paintings because of Piss Christ.
Art Vandilay
Member
I wasn't saying he should ignore being hacked and having his personal information distributed for the world to see. I was referring to his prior conduct. The guy was very confrontational. Remember when he "quit" the video games industry? And when he said that we don't deserve Fez 2?
There is no excuse for what happened to him with the whole hacking incident. I'm just saying the guy has a history of over reacting and lashing out, and it's not that surprising to me that some asshole chose to do this to him.
ShinMaruku
Member
I don't know if it would be terrifying, it could just be a normal person who does not feel in control of his/her life. Sometimes the sickest shit can be done by normal people.
Basements aren't that scary.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
I'm guessing Evilore is a big target for people like this who don't like gaf, especially since he's recognizable and well known now.
Zomba13
Member
I don't get why people are getting turned off of liking games because of this. Fair enough if you are a dev and are scared if you make a game with certain themes some psychos will hack you, but to be turned off because of a bunch of idiots being idiots online seems like letting them win. Letting them ruin your hobby. Did people quit liking sport because of the riots it can cause or that time that guy was killed in the pitch by idiot "fans" of the sport?
If you think the majority of hackers are basement dwellers, erm, why? If you have the skills to do serious hacking, chances are you could easily have a decent job.
kinoki
Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
Want to see some empathicly deprived individuals? Head on over to the neofag subreddit. I even caught them outing me for a rather innocent comment. Hadn't even heard of it before. I'm quite shocked to see such hatred and malice being allowed and festered.
On the other hand I try to keep away from the scarier parts of the internet. It's dangerous to go alone
On the other hand I try to keep away from the scarier parts of the internet. It's dangerous to go alone
No, quitting video games because you don't like Flappy Bird would be like getting mad at paintings because of Piss Christ.
Not enjoying video games because a certain subset of gamers are so opposed to inclusivity that they resort to crime and a larger subset do nothing to confront those views before they explode is like no longer going to soccer games because of riots.
Piss Christ is not a destructive act. There is no art in hacking Polytron. They are not alike.
Well, no, I don't think it's semantics at all. I don't think they're crazy; most attacks like this are ultimately an exercise of power.
By nature, the people who do these things aren't that different from groups like LulzSec or others who have hacked or disrupted developers in the past--and I should note, those groups and attacks have enjoyed broad support from Gaffers at times. We seem to have a double standard when it comes to which illegal activities we support.
ShinMaruku
Member
The root word for Fan is fanatic. Fanatics have always done questionable things, I just think developers should be mindful of their surroundings and the mental state of where they are.
jim-jam bongs
Member
Yeah, and the "gamers" are doing a wonderful job proving him right.
Please don't give those morons any promotion. I stumbled across that a few weeks ago and it is just sad. But we should just leave them to stew in their own anger, rather than give them the satisfaction of thinking they are getting to us.
When it comes to diversity and misogyny in this industry, videogames have never been and never will be skewed or more weighted compared to Western society in general.
Remember the mass shooting that happened in California this year? People coming out in droves, trolling or not, saying they feel the same way that dude did, when it comes to being mistreated by women. Feeling like that dude did in any way isn't necessarily an evil act, and some of those people don't deserve to be condemned for feeling that way, but those people are in the wrong or have the wrong mindset, period.
When it comes to the western world, people of color and women have been put down and have had to fight for a very long time. That's why I feel the feminist videogame movement has sorta failed, because people won't change based on videogames. Videogames are influential, videogames can make people feel out and understand other perspectives. However, videogames becoming the reason why the Western world changes, is something I don't think will ever happen.
This industry, like others, has to grow based on everything on the outside. I honestly think the feminist movement for games should be focused on the realities of the outside world more than representation in videogames and community perception.
Remember the mass shooting that happened in California this year? People coming out in droves, trolling or not, saying they feel the same way that dude did, when it comes to being mistreated by women. Feeling like that dude did in any way isn't necessarily an evil act, and some of those people don't deserve to be condemned for feeling that way, but those people are in the wrong or have the wrong mindset, period.
When it comes to the western world, people of color and women have been put down and have had to fight for a very long time. That's why I feel the feminist videogame movement has sorta failed, because people won't change based on videogames. Videogames are influential, videogames can make people feel out and understand other perspectives. However, videogames becoming the reason why the Western world changes, is something I don't think will ever happen.
This industry, like others, has to grow based on everything on the outside. I honestly think the feminist movement for games should be focused on the realities of the outside world more than representation in videogames and community perception.
John Kowalski
Banned
That would be doubly stupid because Piss Christ is actually a photo!
Banananana
Neo Member
It's easier to assume that 'hackers' are fat otakus with social problems, as opposed to accepting the very real possibility that there are seemingly normal tech-savvy sociopaths working in technology/engineering/academia that enjoy doing this stuff for fun.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
I agree, there is a ton of great work being done right now and you can enjoy a bunch of games without getting caught up in all the politics of all this.
It's extraordinarily sad what is happening but there's still good to find out there, both in terms of audience and in terms of games being made. I hate that the fact that a cool looking game like Sentris isn't getting as much attention as it would have if this nonsense wasn't going on.
These people broke several laws over internet drama. Sounds crazy to me.
Also I don't support lulzsec or whatever. Wtf?
ShinMaruku
Member
Exactly. This action is the only act of power they feel they have. Of course it's good much deeper than games and Phil Fish. I just think he has made himself an acceptable target for this lashing out.
jim-jam bongs
Member
Probably a reference to things like the Steubenville rape case.
Zoe Quinnspiracy controls all the moderators on the internet, don't you know? It's all part of the plan! 4chan, neogaf mods, reddit mods, they're ALL in on it together! It's the only explanation!
[this post is sarcasm. the fact that I feel like I have to explicitly say this is depressing.]
kinoki
Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
I didn't do any direct linking for a reason. Behaviour like that is scary. They are getting to me however, I think they are scary. The amount of anger that pours out of them.
People break laws over nothing all the time. When it's against Sony, they're Robin Hood. When it's against an indie, they're the bad guys. Again, it's about context. Also I never said you supported LulzSec--I'm saying a big chunk of gamers did, because they were "sticking it to the man". As someone who's worked at *two* developers hit by LulzSec and affiliates... it kind of sucks.
I have no idea what that is.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
I hope Phil can figure out a way to keep making games. Maybe that means he has to remove himself from Twitter and keep his head down, and figure out other private ways to socialize. But he's too good to lose solely because he gets into fights with the wrong assholes, and I hope he can figure it out.
Mowki Kowski
Member
Great read. She touches on some critiques of the indie community that I haven't thought about before, and somehow manages to make the doxxing sympathizers seem even more pathetic.
It makes sense. I'd feel safer knowing most hackers are just losers. The scary reality is a lot of these guys are smart sociopaths and a lot of them have good jobs. There is a reason the FBI normally shows up to Def Con to participate.
Have you forgotten what this conversation was about? You thought it was ridiculous for people to fear reporting news because, so long as it's coverage, it's unbiased and neutral. That you are now pointing out double standards reinforces my point that these people operate without rhyme.
You are talking to me, not gaf.
jim-jam bongs
Member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steubenville_High_School_rape_case
oh no
I did find it particularly amusing in light of all the hate Fish got when he said he didn't like Japanese games.
ShinMaruku
Member
That is just as dangerous as the bellends in those fields. I find it better you can better find them out by being aware of the situation than pretending most of them are losers.
MikeXXIeaf
Banned
For better or for worse the timing of this seems very convenient.
Hold up. The reason we haven't covered this is not because we are afraid of being hacked. The reason we haven't covered this is that we don't have all the information. I e-mailed Phil this morning in hopes of talking more about what happened, but haven't heard back. I don't feel comfortable running a story without knowing more than we do now, no matter what other outlets have covered this.
John Rabbit
Banned
what exactly is convenient about having the minute details of your finances and your livelihood broadcast onto the internet?
not good enough schreier, you need to hack into Phil's account and answer your own email.
jim-jam bongs
Member
Convenient for what?
Wolves Evolve
Member
Yep.
There's people who can disprove parts of what the ex-boyfriend said, but don't - because they have young children. Fantastic, excellent work.
Remember, asking for developers to include options for women is totally censorship, but scaring creators off the internet and away from their work in direct ways is totally justice.
Don't you see? All those details are fake! As fake as Fish's living soul! Only the hackers know the truth!!!!1!
MikeXXIeaf
Banned
First and foremost I haven't seen what was leaked, you? There's no evidence that it was /v/ or any organized group either. For all we know this could be someone in some lonely basement pulling a ruse. If there are details that refute this then disregard what I'm saying.
Again, convenient for what?
The person you are replying to isnt implicating anybody, only saying it's extremely unlikely that fish did this to himself.
I get that.
But ultimately they are a bunch of people who are bitter about getting banned from GAF for being hateful dirtbags. So they flock to other similar hateful dirtbags to complain about how bad GAF is for banning people like them. Ultimately it's just lashing out in jealousy, combine with the narrowminded attitudes that got them banned in the first place.
And every time someone mentions their existence, they take it as validation that they are "winning" by making us afraid of them. I just think it would be better for your own piece of mind to not read their hateful drivel and acknowledge their existence. And as a bonus, you wouldn't be contributing to them feeling validated.
Ultimately, I pity them, because I can't imagine it's pleasant to be that hateful all of the time. But I'm not going to waste a lot of my time being concerned about the fact that people hate NeoGAF because we ban racists, sexists, and homophobes.
John Rabbit
Banned
it's a long thread so i'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but bear in mind a lot of information has already been put forth that would cause you not to have posted what you just did. to answer you, intensely private and exploitable information was posted on Polytron's website. i'm not stupid enough to attempt to verify that any of it actually works mind you, but given that Phil Fish and his partner don't seem to be laughing about any of this leads me to believe at least a portion of the information was accurate and highly volatile/potentially dangerous.
i think the best(?) part is the direct correlation between games being "ruined" and that the remedy is to buy "weird sexist shit".
This is a good read. My favourite part:
There's so many downright hopeless crusades in that post it's hilarious.
Let's support Japanese devs who probably won't be focusing on consoles for very much longer since consoles aren't thriving in Japan!
Let's buy up troves of old (Catherine, etc.) games that sales numbers don't matter for anymore! (We'll probably just buy them used anyway!)
Let's buy games contingent on small localization companies that are starting to be conscious of "SJWs!"
Hockeymac18
Member
This is depressing and terrible. Fucking "shitbags" is right.
MikeXXIeaf
Banned
I'm not implying that he did either. There's just a lot of hearsay going on and none of us have any personal stake in this to where we should jump out with 100% certainty saying this or that happened.
Son of Cervantes
Member
No one is denying Phil is an obnoxious a-hole. That doesn't mean he deserves this.
I personally find the guy loathsome so I just avoid his Twitter feed. Screwing with his personal life and his livelihood because you disagree with him? That's not just taking things too far, it's illegal.
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