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[PsychoSoldier]

Well, as much as I want to believe it's a tiny number of people leading the charge on the craziness and such, looking at the top-upvoted comments about this whole thing are so so crazy so either it's not as small a number as I'd like to believe or the crazies are just using tons of bots.

Edit: On Reddit, to be clear. Absolute bonkers stuff getting 1100+ upvotes.

 

[Deleted member 125677]

People are afraid to cover it. That's the point of actions like these, to scare people into shutting up. We have people posting photos of mods on this board along with harassing private details. We have mods who are considering quitting, rather than put up with it. That is the entire point of these little shitbags. If they can scare Fish and Quinn out of the industry, they can scare anyone out. No one wants their loved ones dragged into this shit.

I hope bish is on to their ass

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Let's buy games contingent on small localization companies that are starting to be conscious of "SJWs!"

Those comments, tho...

I'm just going to blame this on prude behavior shown in western culture which I can ironically confirm stems from the religions in the west that seem to believe any thing remotely sexual can be considered 'evil' by biblical terms...

While Asia is quite open with ALOT of things...the U.S. and Europe...have major issues thanks to influence of religious culture.

As someone who supports equal rights and is against bullying and hating on the LGBT community. I don't even see the fuss about this, considering this is within the fictional world of the game and the developers aren't trying to make a statement against transgendered people. This is simply one character making a remark against another. And even then "trap" is used among the otaku community respectfully and very rarely have I seen it used as a slur.

 

[Goon Boon]

Well, as much as I want to believe it's a tiny number of people leading the charge on the craziness and such, looking at the top-upvoted comments about this whole thing are so so crazy so either it's not as small a number as I'd like to believe or the crazies are just using tons of bots.

That happened mostly as a result of the reluctance of the games media to report on it in a timely manner because of the close relations to people named in this (friendships with games journalists/devs named, not the sexual relationships that were the focus of the original page) - people saw "CONSPIRACY" and then because of a lack of any sort of actual attention on the topic on certain sites despite the popularity of it on other major sites like reddit and /v/ (and the shutting down of discussions on other sites including neogaf), that narrative has become the main one.

 

[kinoki]

No one is denying Phil is an obnoxious a-hole. That doesn't mean he deserves this.

I personally find the guy loathsome so I just avoid his Twitter feed. Screwing with his personal life and his livelihood because you disagree with him? That's not just taking things too far, it's illegal.

I'm denying it. He seems like a fun guy. No one deserves this bystander aggression. I think we'd win a lot if people stopped making "Phil is a dick, but..."-posts.

 

[JackDT]

I'm not implying that he did either. There's just a lot of hearsay going on and none of us have any personal stake in this to where we should jump out with 100% certainty saying this or that happened.

There's no 'hearsay' about the main issue, the depressing deluge of hate all over the internet I've been personally skimming through it over the last few days.

What message boards some random hacker did or did not frequent is an irrelevant distraction, who cares?

 

[DyslexicAlucard]

People are afraid to cover it. That's the point of actions like these, to scare people into shutting up. We have people posting photos of mods on this board along with harassing private details. We have mods who are considering quitting, rather than put up with it. That is the entire point of these little shitbags. If they can scare Fish and Quinn out of the industry, they can scare anyone out. No one wants their loved ones dragged into this shit.

Wait, this is really happening? Wow...

 

[PsychoSoldier]

That happened mostly as a result of the reluctance of the games media to report on it in a timely manner because of the close relations to people named in this (friendships with games journalists/devs named, not the sexual relationships that were the focus of the original page) - people saw "CONSPIRACY" and then because of a lack of any sort of actual attention on the topic on certain sites despite the popularity of it on other major sites like reddit and /v/ (and the shutting down of discussions on other sites including neogaf), that narrative has become the main one.

I know that happened the other day, but even in threads about Polytron getting hacked it's still bonkers as anything.

But I do agree that people attempting to shut down discussion essentially helped put this over the top, which is unfortunate.

 

[SMgamer83]

The amount of attention to something so inconsequential in the grand scheme of the Video Game industry is staggering. I'd be willing to bet 99% of game developers have no idea what is going on. Here's a hint, don't think of yourself as some sort of celebrity because you make games. Just make games, and keep your opinions to yourself (which is advice we'd all be better to live by).

 

[Dawg]

Wait, this is really happening? Wow...

Unfortunately, it is very real. This is how these people think.

NSFW (because I don't want to IMG this)

 

[Sendou]

The amount of attention to something so inconsequential in the grand scheme of the Video Game industry is staggering. I'd be willing to bet 99% of game developers have no idea what is going on. Here's a hint, don't think of yourself as some sort of celebrity because you make games. Just make games, and keep your opinions to yourself (which is advice we'd all be better to live by).

I don't understand why would you think the solution here is self censoring your opinions. I quite like expressing myself on the internet. If I wanted to make games I don't want that have an effect on whether I can do that or not. No matter if I do it with my real name or not.

"I'd be willing to bet 99% of game developers have no idea what is going on."

I'm thinking you give developers way too little credit. This thing has been blowing up.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

The amount of attention to something so inconsequential in the grand scheme of the Video Game industry is staggering. I'd be willing to bet 99% of game developers have no idea what is going on. Here's a hint, don't think of yourself as some sort of celebrity because you make games. Just make games, and keep your opinions to yourself (which is advice we'd all be better to live by).

This post is bad and you should feel bad.

Regardless of what you think of Fish, nobody deserves to have their livelihood and possibly their life threatened for saying things on Twitter.

 

[Goon Boon]

Unfortunately, it is very real. This is how these people think.

NSFW (because I don't want to IMG this)

That's just them laughing about it, which is a dick move. There's seperate 4chan clones used exclusively for doxxing/raiding, /v/ generally doesn't do anything except maybe the occasional comment raiding on a news site.

 

[Simply Sarah]

That happened mostly as a result of the reluctance of the games media to report on it in a timely manner because of the close relations to people named in this (friendships with games journalists/devs named, not the sexual relationships that were the focus of the original page) - people saw "CONSPIRACY" and then because of a lack of any sort of actual attention on the topic on certain sites despite the popularity of it on other major sites like reddit and /v/ (and the shutting down of discussions on other sites including neogaf), that narrative has become the main one.

This has been gone over and over before. It wasn't reported because there was nothing to report, just information that should have remained private. Stuff was shut down because it was full of doxxing and utterly toxic remarks. Contrary to what you claim, the moderation reactions were to it exploding, not the other way around.

 

[YianGaruga]

Just make games, and keep your opinions to yourself (which is advice we'd all be better to live by).

That is absolutely terrible advice

 

[SMgamer83]

I don't understand why would you think the solution here is self censoring your opinions. I quite like expressing myself on the internet. If I wanted to make games I don't want that have an effect on whether I can do that or not. No matter if I do it with my real name or not.

"I'd be willing to bet 99% of game developers have no idea what is going on."

I'm thinking you give developers way too little credit. This thing has been blowing up.

The point of making games is just that...to make games. Not to try to become some e-Celeb. Most game developers keep to themselves for that very reason. Trust me, I'm not "giving developers" too little credit. Quite the opposite. I'm giving them tons of credit for being bigger and just ignoring it.

This post is bad and you should feel bad.

Regardless of what you think of Fish, nobody deserves to have their livelihood and possibly their life threatened for saying things on Twitter.

Agreed. Wasn't my point. Fish doesn't deserve what is happening.

 

[Carcetti]

This has been gone over and over before. It wasn't reported because there was nothing to report, just information that should have remained private. Stuff was shut down because it was full of doxxing and utterly toxic remarks. Contrary to what you claim, the moderation reactions were to it exploding, not the other way around.

Exactly. People go on about gamez jurnalizm but fail to realize that you can't make actual news out of someone's crazed ex alleging stuff unless you enjoy lawsuits.

 

[Glass Shark]

People are afraid to cover it. That's the point of actions like these, to scare people into shutting up. We have people posting photos of mods on this board along with harassing private details. We have mods who are considering quitting, rather than put up with it. That is the entire point of these little shitbags. If they can scare Fish and Quinn out of the industry, they can scare anyone out. No one wants their loved ones dragged into this shit.

I used to have ambitions of becoming a full-time games writer. This year has completely destroyed that idea. I couldn't handle some of the stuff aimed at Patrick Klepek this week and he wasn't even involved.

 

[Toxi]

The amount of attention to something so inconsequential in the grand scheme of the Video Game industry is staggering. I'd be willing to bet 99% of game developers have no idea what is going on. Here's a hint, don't think of yourself as some sort of celebrity because you make games. Just make games, and keep your opinions to yourself (which is advice we'd all be better to live by).

You see the well-being of people who make video games as inconsequential compared to some comments on twitter. I'm glad you have your priorities straight.

 

[R_thanatos]

I don't believe it.

This "hack" that i just took knowledge off a few minutes ago , doesn't make sense to me.
First , the timing is weird , the writing is weird and the people who hack doesn't write like this.

If sensible info was put on the web , i wonder why, but i don't see anything that make sense in context

And since when anonymous who hack refer themselves to 4chan ? All the hacking groups want no relation to the "script kiddies of 4chan"

"head mod at /V/ ?" what does that even mean ? there is no head mod .

And i don't even want to start on the content delivery of what was supposely hacked.
None of it make sense .

 

[Steve Youngblood]

That happened mostly as a result of the reluctance of the games media to report on it in a timely manner because of the close relations to people named in this (friendships with games journalists/devs named, not the sexual relationships that were the focus of the original page) - people saw "CONSPIRACY" and then because of a lack of any sort of actual attention on the topic on certain sites despite the popularity of it on other major sites like reddit and /v/ (and the shutting down of discussions on other sites including neogaf), that narrative has become the main one.

I know that happened the other day, but even in threads about Polytron getting hacked it's still bonkers as anything.

But I do agree that people attempting to shut down discussion essentially helped put this over the top, which is unfortunate.

I really fail to see how real investigations and discussion forums inviting everyone to sit at the big kids table for a frank and serious discussion about ethics re: an embarrassing blog post from an ex-lover of Zoe Quinn was going to help keep a lid on this. Speaking only for this site, I don't think anyone on staff has any connections at all to Quinn. None of us are/were looking out for a friend or capitulating to someone who instills fear into those who don't treat her like a who's who in the industry. We thought it was an embarrassing discussion that we didn't want to be given a platform here.

I really can't understand an argument that by internet sites not allowing people a forum to discuss an issue they found important, that the only recourse was to escalate things to this level. As though all people wanted was for this important discussion about some quasi-indie celebrity's personal transgressions to acquire fame via her feminine wiles to happen openly.

 

[Dawg]

That's just them laughing about it, which is a dick move. There's seperate 4chan clones used exclusively for doxxing/raiding, /v/ generally doesn't do anything except maybe the occasional comment raiding on a news site.

Oh, I know. But they mentioned the pictures (personal stuff) of moderators before. Think they even shared a few (?). Which is just as bad, no?

 

[Sendou]

The point of making games is just that...to make games. Not to try to become some e-Celeb. Most game developers keep to themselves for that very reason. Trust me, I'm not "giving developers" too little credit. Quite the opposite. I'm giving them tons of credit for being bigger and just ignoring it.

Which would be your example of a dev trying to become "e-Celeb"? It seems to be that you can easily end up like that even if you don't want to. Best way to get to that point seems to actually make games like you suggest.

There are tons of positive sides on being Twitter and interacting with your audience. Then there's the whole right to free expression side of things.

 

[Darknight]

Can someone tell me what this dude did so wrong that deserved this? I mean nothing should push people to do this shit but its sad its come to this. Would really hate having my shit hacked. People online can be total jack asses.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Unfortunately, it is very real. This is how these people think.

NSFW (because I don't want to IMG this)

The irony is palpable. These assholes are "fighting against censorship!".... by scaring people from covering the story. Bravo.

 

[kiguel182]

It really saddens me that this happened. Not only the hacking but some of the reactions to it. Acting like Phil deserved it and even accusing him of doing it.

This saddens me not only because I always defended Phil Fish when it came to the shit people threw his way but also because I'm seeing how far hate can lead people against game devs and people that did nothing but create works that grew our medium.

I know people that don't like certain directors or movies but the hate (HATE!) that devs get in our area is just sad and pathetic. It seems like to make a game you have to agree to be shitted on and hated on without being able to respond. You just have to take it. For some reason.

Even the guy that made Flappy Birds is insulted when he tries and makes a new game. Without saying a bad word to anyone. Just because he made a game that some people think is shit.

It saddens me to be a part of this medium in times like these. I never liked the term "gamer" and this just makes me like it even less.

Even here, Neogaf, a place where supposedly people should be above shit like that you can see tons of ignorant and hateful comments.

This isn't like saying "I hate Microsoft/Sony". This is insulting people and hating on them. Real people and not corporations.

I just wish that people can learn from this so we can move on to be a more mature and positive medium instead of this.

 

[SMgamer83]

Which would be your example of a dev trying to become "e-Celeb"? It seems to be that you can easily end up like that even if you don't want to. Best way to get to that point seems to actually make games like you suggest.

There are tons of positive sides on being Twitter and interacting with your audience. Then there's the whole right to free expression side of things.

Phil Fish's actions did just that. No need to dive into it. We've seen it with Cliffy B for example as well.

I don't see the director of Treyarch, or the Team Meat guys, or Sakurai for example going on twitter and saying controversial things. They stick to talking about games. I'm also not saying "don't interact with your audience", but there is a smart way to do it. Riot's forums for example are a great way where we see the Dev's interacting with their audience.

As for the right of free expression, of course you have the RIGHT, doesn't mean your expression is consequence free.

 

[Mowki Kowski]

Can someone tell me what this dude did so wrong that deserved this? I mean nothing should push people to do this shit but its sad its come to this. Would really hate having my shit hacked. People online can be total jack asses.

He said he didn't like my precious Japanese games so clearly he deserves to have his life ruined and frankly if you can't understand that reasoning you're probably a decent person

 

[Toxi]

I don't believe it.

This "hack" that i just took knowledge off a few minutes ago , doesn't make sense to me.
First , the timing is weird , the writing is weird and the people who hack doesn't write like this.

If sensible info was put on the web , i wonder why, but i don't see anything that make sense in context

And since when anonymous who hack refer themselves to 4chan ? All the hacking groups want no relation to the "script kiddies of 4chan"

"head mod at /V/ ?" what does that even mean ? there is no head mod .

And i don't even want to start on the content delivery of what was supposely hacked.
None of it make sense .

I wasn't aware hackers all wrote the same.

The aim of releasing sensitive personal and financial info is to ruin the employees at Polytron, and probably to "provide an example".

The part about 4chan and Anonymous is irrelevant, since we have no way of knowing where the attack was actually organized unless we want to take the note (Which we already know is a joke) at face-value.

Also, it's not "supposedly hacked". The only alternative I've heard so far is the ludicrous theory that Phil Fish committed economic suicide "because he's crazy yo".

 

[JackDT]

I don't believe it.

And since when anonymous who hack refer themselves to 4chan ? All the hacking groups want no relation to the "script kiddies of 4chan"

"head mod at /V/ ?" what does that even mean ? there is no head mod .

Wait. A. Minute. Are you saying that there is no 'head mod' of '/V/' ? The head mod of /V/ isn't the leader of anonymous? Hmn.... Now that you mentioned it, it IS odd that someone would personally claim credit like that.

It's... it's.. it's almost like someone familiar with recent news is making an incredibly obvious joke reference to '/V/' as in the 'Zoe doxxed herself' conspiracy 4chan posts.

Sigh.

The overall reaction of the community is what's bothering me today. The hacker could be the Pope for all I care. Nobody cares what message board some random hacker frequents.

 

[Guess Who]

Claiming to be the "head mod of /V/" is obviously something a 4chan user would write as a joke. If you think that disproves anything you're a moron.

 

[Zomba13]

He said he didn't like my precious Japanese games so clearly he deserves to have his life ruined and frankly if you can't understand that reasoning you're probably a decent person

To be fair that isn't why this happened. It happened because he stood up for a female member of the industry and some hackers went after him for that (regardless of the fact he is a bit of a douche on twitter). Bringing up the stupid Japanese game comment which was taken poorly by some idiots kinda demeans the whole thing. He wasn't hacked because he said something bad about some games but because he was sticking up for a fellow game dev and being a decent human being.

 

[Krejlooc]

Phil Fish's actions did just that. No need to dive into it. We've seen it with Cliffy B for example as well.

I don't see the director of Treyarch, or the Team Meat guys, or Sakurai for example going on twitter and saying controversial things. They stick to talking about games. I'm also not saying "don't interact with your audience", but there is a smart way to do it. Riot's forums for example are a great way where we see the Dev's interacting with their audience.

As for the right of free expression, of course you have the RIGHT, doesn't mean your expression is consequence free.

One should never expect this as a consequence. Or rather, we shouldn't accept this as a consequence.

 

[kadotsu]

As for the right of free expression, of course you have the RIGHT, doesn't mean your expression is consequence free.

Are you fucking insane? No one should have to worry about repercussion on a felony level for speech, no matter how annoying they are.

 

[djtiesto]

This is a good read. My favourite part:

I do this anyways - but that has nothing to do with any sort of anti-feminist / anti PC attitude or anything

 

[Mowki Kowski]

To be fair that isn't why this happened. It happened because he stood up for a female member of the industry and some hackers went after him for that (regardless of the fact he is a bit of a douche on twitter). Bringing up the stupid Japanese game comment which was taken poorly by some idiots kinda demeans the whole thing. He wasn't hacked because he said something bad about some games but because he was sticking up for a fellow game dev and being a decent human being.

Wow, I was completely ignorant to any of that, and I apologize. Is there a succinct wrap-up of that situation I could read?

 

[Sendou]

Phil Fish's actions did just that. No need to dive into it. We've seen it with Cliffy B for example as well.

I don't see the director of Treyarch, or the Team Meat guys, or Sakurai for example going on twitter and saying controversial things. They stick to talking about games. I'm also not saying "don't interact with your audience", but there is a smart way to do it. Riot's forums for example are a great way where we see the Dev's interacting with their audience.

As for the right of free expression, of course you have the RIGHT, doesn't mean your expression is consequence free.

What is that consequence? What is an acceptable consequence for that? If you feel that someone is acting in a way that displeases you then I would imagine the best way to go about it would be to ignore that person and their work. The more you talk about them the more famous they get. It's not like we have any one person in this industry that's absolutely so influential you can't just avoid them no matter what. In fact it seems to me that people that are most outraged about these personalities are most likely to actually talk about what they do. So I don't believe devs should censor themselves in a way they think public finds acceptable.

Regarding Team Meat and Twitter. I recommend watching Indie Games the Movie (the Internet section) for more insight on that. Sakurai doesn't talk about games on Twitter because he isn't allowed to. He works with Nintendo. Same with anyone working with a big publisher. Not like it's relevant at all to the discussion at hand.

 

[Renpatsu]

In what universe is saying ANYTHING on Twitter justifiable for retribution of this calibre?! People shouldn't have to deal with this kind of behaviour full stop. It doesn't matter who.

 

[Krejlooc]

To be fair that isn't why this happened. It happened because he stood up for a female member of the industry and some hackers went after him for that (regardless of the fact he is a bit of a douche on twitter). Bringing up the stupid Japanese game comment which was taken poorly by some idiots kinda demeans the whole thing. He wasn't hacked because he said something bad about some games but because he was sticking up for a fellow game dev and being a decent human being.

Lots of people stood up for that poor girl. The reason Fish was attacked is because he's already a target of internet hate. Let's not pretend this happened in a vacuum.

 

[DieH@rd]

Did anyone make re-cap of all events? I just found about this.

Why are big gaming news sites not covering this?

 

[shenhaZ]

No one is denying Phil is an obnoxious a-hole. That doesn't mean he deserves this.

I personally find the guy loathsome so I just avoid his Twitter feed. Screwing with his personal life and his livelihood because you disagree with him? That's not just taking things too far, it's illegal.

I'm not saying we should not be tolerate. Yes, we should.

I'm saying what internet is corrupt us. And if someone punished Phil that is just rule of nature. (and it's not justify these people)

 

[Guess Who]

Lots of people stood up for that poor girl. The reason Fish was attacked is because he's already a target of internet hate. Let's not pretend this happened in a vacuum.

Lots of other people besides Fish are being doxxed and harassed because of this, too.

 

[soultron]

Did anyone make re-cap of all events? I just found about this.

Why are big gaming news sites not covering this?

Jason Schreier (Kotaku) just commented a few pages back saying they're still collecting details and trying to contact folks like Fish himself.

 

[Neuromancer]

#welovegafmods

 

[SMgamer83]

One should never expect this as a consequence. Or rather, we shouldn't accept this as a consequence.

Are you fucking insane? No one should have to worry about repercussion on a felony level for speech, no matter how annoying they are.

Careful of jumping to conclusions there folks. I didn't say the consequences were valid. I said expression has consequences.

If I come on Neogaf and "express" racist comments, I expect a consequence of getting banned, despite my "freedom of expression". Should I be gunned down in cold blood for my comments? Of course not.

 

[Mowki Kowski]

Did anyone make re-cap of all events? I just found about this.

Why are big gaming news sites not covering this?

Someone from Kotaku posted in this thread saying that a lot of it is conjecture/heresay and there isn't enough to post something based enough in fact.

 

[kiguel182]

Phil Fish's actions did just that. No need to dive into it. We've seen it with Cliffy B for example as well.

I don't see the director of Treyarch, or the Team Meat guys, or Sakurai for example going on twitter and saying controversial things. They stick to talking about games. I'm also not saying "don't interact with your audience", but there is a smart way to do it. Riot's forums for example are a great way where we see the Dev's interacting with their audience.

As for the right of free expression, of course you have the RIGHT, doesn't mean your expression is consequence free.

So if you make games you can only talk about games in public? Is that it?

He can't say anything that people might think is wrong without suffering consequences?

He tweeted stuff. Like I tweet stuff and like a bunch of people do. He has every right to do that without being insulted or fucking hacked.

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

[Wrong thread]

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I do this anyways - but that has nothing to do with any sort of anti-feminist / anti PC attitude or anything

You kids and your weird sexist foreign shit!

 

[Krejlooc]

Lots of other people besides Fish are being doxxed and harassed because of this, too.

I'm willing to bet those people are being doxxed for the same reason Fish was targeted.

Which is to say, random joe schmoe who stood up for that girl probably isn't facing financial ruin and identity theft.