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[Elios83]

According to Bloomberg a NEC representative told them that Microsoft is interested in the HD DVD format and NEC could be requested to assembly the drive unit for Xenon.
Bloomberg adds that MS has not ruled out the possibility of adopting tha traditional DVD for its future console.

Source:Gamefront.de

 

[human5892]

Assuming the Fall/Winter 2005 launch rumor is true, shouldn't the console's media -- and hardware as a whole -- be something that is finalized by now?

 

[IJoel]

Assuming the Fall/Winter 2005 launch rumor is true, shouldn't the console's media -- and hardware as a whole -- be something that is finalized by now?

Considering the original Xbox came together in 2 years, I'm not surprised about this.

Besides, this is just a media drive. Talk about an easily replaceable component.

 

[Bregor]

So MS may or may not use HD-DVD for Xenon? I'm glad that's settled!

 

[Elios83]

Xbox1 specs were finalized a few months before the US launch

 

[SKluck]

NEC could be requested to assembly the drive unit for Xenon.

NOOOOOO. I really don't want more problems with my dvd drive reading next gen. Though HD-DVD would be badass, essentially a free HD-DVD player? Nice.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

Just stick w/ DVDs dammit. Their trying to emulate Sony's every move it seems. How many games even take up 4+GB? Very few and a lot of that data is bullsh!t anyway.

I wouldn't mind games spanning on multiple discs anyway. New storage mediums means new drives and new media which inflates the price of the console in the end.

 

[IJoel]

Just stick w/ DVDs dammit. Their trying to emulate Sony's every move it seems. How many games even take up 4+GB? Very few and a lot of that data is bullsh!t anyway.

I wouldn't mind games spanning on multiple discs anyway. New storage mediums means new drives and new media which inflates the price of the console in the end.

All new consoles will most likely cost $299.99 initially regardless of the drive. HD-DVD still supports the DVD format so it's not like you won't get DVD support with it.

I can't understand the complaint about it. You're getting a LOT more for what will most likely be the same price.

 

[sohka88]

How many games even take up 4+GB?

I hate when people say this... no vision for the future

 

[DarienA]

I hate when people say this... no vision for the future

640K is enough... though it's now claimed this comment was never made...
130GB native recognize HD limit in certain MS OS's..... what's the deal with that anyway?

 

[kaching]

+10 to MS if they step up to higher capacity blue-laser optical media.

 

[rastex]

HD-DVD will primarily be for the movie watching segment of the market. It'll obviously be backwards compatible with DVD so from the developer's perspective there's really no change (except if they go over a DVD-9 they now have the option for HD-DVD). I think this is a good development. I love competition

 

[McFly]

It's funny that NEC has to ask MS if they want a HD-DVD drive from them and with the note that it will get cheap over the years ... lol.

Fredi

 

[GDJustin]

So MS may or may not use HD-DVD for Xenon? I'm glad that's settled!

.

 

[ManaByte]

How many games even take up 4+GB?

Halo 1 on the Xbox fills about 8 gigs of the Xbox DVD.

All Xbox games are on dual layer DVDs, although not all fill the disc.

 

[Rhindle]

Well, this is certainly good news.

Microsoft would be going into the market with one hand firmly tied behind its back without HDDVD or BRD support. People may not care about it that much in 2005, but given a choice they will pick the console with support rather than one that does not.

Also, art assets next gen are going to increase in size by factor of at least 4-10. So I don't see where the argument that the extra space is not needed for games is coming from.

 

[jedimike]

Halo 1 on the Xbox fills about 8 gigs of the Xbox DVD.

All Xbox games are on dual layer DVDs, although not all fill the disc.

But MS probably left a lot of that uncompressed... how man CD's did it come on for the PC?

I'm all for MS adopting HD-DVD (or Blu-Ray), but not because of the extra disk space. The High-Def movie playback is a more important feature. Look at Nintendo... they seem to be doing just fine with only an 1/8 of the space.

 

[BigGreenMat]

Halo 1 on the Xbox fills about 8 gigs of the Xbox DVD.

All Xbox games are on dual layer DVDs, although not all fill the disc.

Really Manabyte? Are you sure? I was quite sure that Xbox DVD-9s were not even able to hold 8 gigs because of the incredibly huge disc protection data. Wasn't it more like a 6-6.5 gig limit per disc?

 

[DaCocoBrova]

I hate when people say this... no vision for the future

What? Bigger budgets, longer dev cycles for games that are no more, or even less fun than what we were playing 10+ years ago?

Nah.

Halo 1 on the Xbox fills about 8 gigs of the Xbox DVD.

Odd how the whole thing fits on a 4.7GB DVD...

 

[IJoel]

What? Bigger budgets, longer dev cycles for games that are no more, or even less fun than what we were playing 10+ years ago?

Nah.



Odd how the whole thing fits on a 4.7GB DVD...

What the hell are you talking about?

*checks topic title*

Yep.

 

[seismologist]

NOOOOOO. I really don't want more problems with my dvd drive reading next gen. Though HD-DVD would be badass, essentially a free HD-DVD player? Nice.

It seems like HD DVDs are going to use the Blu Ray format though. HD-DVD player would only be useful for more starage for playing games.

 

[ManaByte]

It seems like HD DVDs are going to use the Blu Ray format though.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Are you gigadent?

 

[Shompola]

what a vaste of resources. Spend the extra $$$ on the GPU or CPU or whatever instead or just lower the price of th econsoleseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.-

 

[jedimike]

what a vaste of resources. Spend the extra $$$ on the GPU or CPU or whatever

The HD-DVD drive would probably add less than $10 to MS's manufacturing costs...

 

[SKluck]

Um... Halo 1 filled 8 GB? Didn't the PC version come on ONE cd?

 

[cja]

I assume all you blue laser advocates are going to buy a Blu-ray/HD-DVD drive at the expense of a more powerful CPU and GPU for your own PC in the next couple of years? That is what you're asking Microsoft to do.

MS only have a finite budget, the extra ~$50 on a blue laser device could be spent taking a hit on lower CPU and GPU yields. This would allow for higher-clock rates resulting in superior game graphics, ai and physics.

1.5GB is okay for Doom III. 8.4GB will be enough for next-gen, especially with the superior video, audio and texture compression now available. You can fill the disc up with MPEG-2, uncompressed textures, poorly compressed audio and other crap but we're a long way from needing the storage capacity of DVD-9 for game code and well produced graphical and audio assets.

 

[Datawhore]

If Microsoft does make the Xenon HD-DVD compatible, it likely won't be for the added capacity for games. (sure it will be used, but I doubt that's the main reason)

It will be to make the Xenon HW a more justifiable purchase at $299, similar to the DVD functionality of the PS2 and Blu-Ray capability of PS3.

Without some HD video ability, the Xenon will not compare favourably with the PS3 by the majority of consumers.

 

[Brofist]

The new formats are backward compatible anyway. I would even bet that MS would still release games on DVD in the beginning, like the PS2 had CD games early on. Then later when the games become larger and take up more space (and they will) they can move to the larger capacity format.

Personally I like my new technology to actually be new. I don't want to buy a new game console with by the time Xbox2 rolls out a 7-8 year old storage format.

 

[Blimblim]

I think it would be a smart move. I mean Xenon wil have at least 256 Mbytes of RAM, and certainly (I hope so) 512. If Xenon uses DVD that would mean you could fit about 16 times the RAM from the media (yeah I know it's stupid to say it like that).
Considering a game like Rallisport Challenge 2 used (IIRC) about 7 Gbytes, imagine how the same game with 8 times the amount of textures/models data and such would require ? Even if it's not that simple math, I'm sure you get what I'm trying to say.
I hate games using multiple disks, it's so annoying !

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I'm all for MS adopting HD-DVD (or Blu-Ray), but not because of the extra disk space. The High-Def movie playback is a more important feature. Look at Nintendo... they seem to be doing just fine with only an 1/8 of the space.

Yeah, Nintendo themselves do fine, so can MS, and so can any company who's told that's the limit. But it doesn't help any with the third parties, who consider the market leader highest priority. Games that DO use a lot of space either have to be reworked, lose features, or just not even be considered for release on Platform Z. I totally agree with the possibilities, but the realities are it hurts when you don't match up with the market leader on things like this. Just like having one fewer shoulder button, or a too-small memory card.

 

[seismologist]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Are you gigadent?

What? Halo 1 fills 8gb? LOL. it sounds like you have no idea what your talking about.

 

[Blimblim]

The PAL version fills 8 gig, it's true. But that's because it's actually 2 games on one DVD. Bungie did not have time to make a true multi language game so each version had to be compiled for each country. For example the french version also has the german one the DVD.

 

[seismologist]

There must be more than 2 versions on it because the US Halo is about 1.5gb and that's only because there's playable demos on the disk. Like someone mentioned, the PC version fits on 1 CD.

 

[Che]

...in other related news I haven't got the slightest idea how much data a HD-DVD can hold. Can anyone enlighten me please?

 

[Culex]

Seriously, if you think Halo fills 8 gigabytes, you're an idiot. Even with the extra stuff added on the PC version, it only takes up ONE disc and less than 1.5 gigabytes.

UT2K4 doesn't even take up 8 gigs (it takes up 5.5) and it has OOGLES more substance than Halo.

 

[cybamerc]

I think either DVD or a proprietary format makes most sense for M$. HD-DVD is in no way guaranteed success and M$ doesn't have any particular investment in this format unlike Sony with Blu-ray.

 

[open_mouth_]

MS should go with a proprietary DVD-based medium much like the Dreamcast did with its GD-Roms (CD based tech).... This way, it'll hopefully curb piracy a bit while still allowing for higher size yields.

 

[Fatghost]

...in other related news I haven't got the slightest idea how much data a HD-DVD can hold. Can anyone enlighten me please?

Around 15 GB per disc layer. BluRay is around 25 GB per layer with potential for even higher storage.

 

[kaching]

I assume all you blue laser advocates are going to buy a Blu-ray/HD-DVD drive at the expense of a more powerful CPU and GPU for your own PC in the next couple of years? That is what you're asking Microsoft to do.

MS only have a finite budget, the extra ~$50 on a blue laser device could be spent taking a hit on lower CPU and GPU yields. This would allow for higher-clock rates resulting in superior game graphics, ai and physics.

1.5GB is okay for Doom III. 8.4GB will be enough for next-gen, especially with the superior video, audio and texture compression now available. You can fill the disc up with MPEG-2, uncompressed textures, poorly compressed audio and other crap but we're a long way from needing the storage capacity of DVD-9 for game code and well produced graphical and audio assets.

Guess this'll be the true test of just how cost and resource efficient HD-DVD is relative to DVD, as its proponents claim, eh?

The problem with your analogy to the PC is that its an open box that I can upgrade in any order and at any rate as I want to. Console manufacturers have one chance to get the right mix of capabilities for what will hopefully turn into a successful 5-6 yr run on the market. You say use the money they'd put towards HD-DVD support to bump up the CPU/GPU specs? Assuming that yields significant improvement, what happens 2-3 yrs down the road when devs are into 2nd/3rd gen software for the Xenon and the capabilities of the CPU/GPU they can tap are greater than the storage you have at your disposal that you would need for all the resources to really it do it justice? Alternatively, what if $50 just goes a lot farther right now towards HDDVD than it does with CPU/GPU performance?

 

[Datawhore]

To spell it out why MS should consider a high density format, like HD-DVD for Xenon:

1) To offer a competitive HD movie playing capability to the PS3

2) To avoid limiting 3rd party cross-platform Xenon support.

Many if not most next-gen games will be developed for one platform and ported to the other consoles. The target platform is likely to be the PS3 with its massive Blu-Ray storage capacity. MS needs a media with similar capacity to ensure they don't get watered down, feature-reduced ports. (Potential graphics and other performance issues aside)

3) Games may actually utilize this much storage space, at some point in the future. As hard as it is to believe, it's entirely likely that some games in 2010 will use tens of gigabytes.

Personally, I think #1 and #2 are extremely strong reasons for MS to consider HD-DVD. As for games using the space, I doubt that's even much of a consideration for M$.

 

[gollumsluvslave]

According to IGN, Toshiba and NEC are pushing MS to use HD-DVD... a two way thing may see some type of subsidized deal...

http://xbox.ign.com/articles/554/554095p1.html

 

[sonycowboy]

This whole thing is really interesting from a posturing point-of-view.

It's almost as if Sony is throwing down the Gauntlet by having Blu-Ray. I mean, we know they've planned it for years, but many thought it wouldn't be commercially viable and they're showing that they believe that it is.

So, what's Microsoft to do?

1) Go with DVD only. It will allow the system to be substantially cheaper and in the short term it will make no difference to the actual games. I mean, they could just make a game a 2 DVD set and go up to 18GB. However, they will not particpate in the HD movie business, and Sony will certainly trumpet that exclusion. Of course, Microsoft could try and play the ONLY GAMES card and try to show that they're committed to just games. That didn't seem to work too good for Nintendo.

2) Go with HD-DVD. This will give clout to the format, but paints Microsoft in a corner that not even Toshiba or NEC have gone in. They will be 100% committed to this format. HD-DVD isn't dead, but it certainly looks like it could be relatively soon. This format would likely raise the cost of the system quite a bit, but relative to a Blu-Ray player? Also, could this delay the release of the system?

3) Go with Blu-Ray. Will put them on par with Sony for the media, but by coming out a year earlier, they would pay a huge price for going with this format. Or, they could delay the launch by a few months to a year to gain some cost savings.

It seems that Microsoft has some tough choices to make. And Sony is forcing their hand.

 

[ManaByte]

How many games even take up 4+GB?

Xenosaga did. It almost fills the dual layered DVD.

 

[DarienA]

3) Go with Blu-Ray. Will put them on par with Sony for the media, but by coming out a year earlier, they would pay a huge price for going with this format. Or, they could delay the launch by a few months to a year to gain some cost savings.

What's the huge price they pay for going with this format?

 

[sonycowboy]

According to IGN, Toshiba and NEC are pushing MS to use HD-DVD... a two way thing may see some type of subsidized deal...

http://xbox.ign.com/articles/554/554095p1.html

Interesting quote of Drive costs in late 2005. Seems they're well, well over $300 themselves as they plan on the drive cost dropping $300. I doubt that they'd be able to cut the costs by much over half in a single year, so let's play assume that the drive will cost ~$500 in early 2005 and $200 in late 2005. That's a pretty hefty price for Microsoft to launch with.

The company aims at making computers with HD-DVD drives available in the latter half of 2005, and aims for drive prices to drop to 300 dollars within half a year of inclusion.

 

[sonycowboy]

What's the huge price they pay for going with this format?

The huge price would just be the cost of the drives. Given that current Blu-Ray players are over a thousand, I just don't think that the drives will be all that cost efficient in 2005.

I'm not talking about having to pay Sony or any licensing crap like that. Just the drive costs.

 

[Datawhore]

My bad, already posted. I'll leave it up anyways.

Related to this in a cursory way...

(Century City, Calif.) Twentieth Century Fox announced on Monday that it has joined the Blu-ray Association, a group supporting Sony's next-generation blue laser DVD format that also includes Dell, Hitachi, HP, LG, Matsushita, Mitsubishi, Philips, Pioneer, Samsung, Sharp, TDK and Thomson. While the studio has not yet committed to publishing its films on the format, it will work with the other firms on the development of the high-capacity DVD format. Fox has also endorsed the rival HD-DVD format that is being developed by Toshiba and others.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/041004/japan_next_generation_dvd_3.html
http://www.blu-ray.com

 

[DarienA]

Related to this in a cursory way...

(Century City, Calif.) Twentieth Century Fox announced on Monday that it has joined the Blu-ray Association, a group supporting Sony's next-generation blue laser DVD format that also includes Dell, Hitachi, HP, LG, Matsushita, Mitsubishi, Philips, Pioneer, Samsung, Sharp, TDK and Thomson. While the studio has not yet committed to publishing its films on the format, it will work with the other firms on the development of the high-capacity DVD format. Fox has also endorsed the rival HD-DVD format that is being developed by Toshiba and others.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/041004/japan_next_generation_dvd_3.html
http://www.blu-ray.com

Posted numerous times already.

 

[sonycowboy]

Has anyone heard of decisions regarding wireless controllers?

I mean, it would seem that it would be just as cheap to have a single Bluetooth controller which could handle dozens of devices as it would be to have 4 controller ports. I mean, Sony actually didn't go from 2-to-4 controllers simply because of cost.

And could you imagine a true 22 player HD version of Madden? I know there are some logistics regarding screen real estate to go that high, but the PSOne had eight players at once. And wouldn't it be interesting if that were the only obstacle to having 22 players on one system?

 

[Cathcart]

System link would be better, put one team in each room so they can talk to each other. Also not Madden because he's fat and smelly and his game is, too.