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[MrOogieBoogie]

Big, big statement.

Pope Francis will allow priests discretion to absolve women who have had abortions if they seek forgiveness during the upcoming Holy Year beginning Dec. 8, the Vatican announced in a statement Tuesday.

"One of the serious problems of our time is clearly the changed relationship with respect to life," the pope wrote in the English-language version of his letter, in which he described the "existential and moral ordeal" of women who have chosen to terminate their pregnancies.
Remarking that he has met with many women who have faced this decision, Francis said that women "who bear in their heart the scar of this agonizing and painful decision" deserve the forgiveness of God if they seek it.

"The forgiveness of God cannot be denied to one who has repented, especially when that person approaches the Sacrament of Confession with a sincere heart in order to obtain reconciliation with the Father," Francis wrote.

"For this reason too, I have decided, notwithstanding anything to the contrary, to concede to all priests for the Jubilee Year the discretion to absolve of the sin of abortion those who have procured it and who, with contrite heart, seek forgiveness for it," the pontiff went on. "May priests fulfil this great task by expressing words of genuine welcome combined with a reflection that explains the gravity of the sin committed, besides indicating a path of authentic conversion by which to obtain the true and generous forgiveness of the Father who renews all with his presence."

The latest message comes weeks before the pope is set to visit the United States, where the debate over the legal status of abortion has continued for more than 40 years since the Supreme Court's decision inRoe v. Wade, and has intensified in recent months with videos showing Planned Parenthood officials discussing the donation of tissues from aborted fetuses.
While he's in the U.S., Francis will stop in Washington, D.C., and New York before traveling to Philadelphia.

Republican presidential candidate Jeb Bush weighed in on Francis' statement on Tuesday morning, saying that he was not surprised and that "we could all use a lot of mercy in this world.

"I hope that we also focus on mercy for the unborn, the hundreds of thousands of babies that will die," the former governor of Florida said in a Fox News interview. "I think we need to have a society that protects life from the beginning to end, and we should be a repentant society, for sure."

I'm pretty convinced that Pope Francis is actually Satan, in his bid to lull everyone into a false sense of security with his radical views and pleasant words, just so he can have the maximum support by every Catholic on the planet before declaring one day that "God is dead."

The reactions would be of... biblical... proportions.

 

[Arc]

Baby steps.

But best Pope continues to be best Pope.

 

[teruterubozu]

"For a Limited Time!"

How odd.

 

[Orbis Tabula]

That seems weird that he should have to allow it. I thought one of the central tenets of the faith was that all sins could be forgiven.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

Good.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

"For a Limited Time!"

How odd.

Limited collector's edition forgiveness.

Preorder now.

 

[cacildo]

Best pope

 

[xxracerxx]

Best pope

Yup

 

[Anoregon]

Limited collector's edition forgiveness.

Preorder now.

Gamestop exclusive bonus is new pope skins. One of them makes him look like a Jedi!

 

[clemenx]

Lol at the good press this is generating, it makes no sense to me. It's not even a change in the draconian stance.

There is nothing those women did that needs to be forgiven in the first place.

 

[DECK'ARD]

That's nice of him.

 

[Griss]

That seems weird that he should have to allow it. I thought one of the central tenets of the faith was that all sins could be forgiven.

Yeah I was raised Catholic and that was my general impression too. I still remember my first confession. FUCK that was horrible. Never went again.

Pope Francis is obviously deciding here that women are all that keeps the church going so let's try not to drive them all away.

 

[xxracerxx]

Lol at the good press this is generating, it makes no sense to me. It's not even a change in the draconian stance.

There is nothing those women did that needs to be forgiven in the first place.

It's a big deal to the Catholic faith.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

That seems weird that he should have to allow it. I thought one of the central tenets of the faith was that all sins could be forgiven.

its more the thread title than what he is commanding, yet in the catholic church they have that hierarchy so he's gotta make official statements i suppose.

 

[TheAbsolution]

Best pope

Yup.

 

[CadetMahoney]

This doesn't conflict with the banning/criminilizing stance.

That's still on the books.

 

[Omegasquash]

That they're arrogant enough to think that women need forgiveness for owning their own body speaks volumes about the church.

Then again, it's the church.

 

[Savitar]

Best Pope is best.

He's making more numerous steps in the right direction than many before him.

Sure for us who are not of the faith some of these things might seem laughable or whatever but really, you can bet for those who are of the faith stuff like this is quite significant.

 

[SuperBanana]

Best pope

Still a shit Pope. He compared Transgender people to nuclear weapons. Just less shit than the others.

 

[Skellig Gra]

That seems weird that he should have to allow it. I thought one of the central tenets of the faith was that all sins could be forgiven.

Yeah I don't get this either.

 

[El Topo]

That seems weird that he should have to allow it. I thought one of the central tenets of the faith was that all sins could be forgiven.

Yes and no. From what I remember, abortion technically leads to excommunication, which subsequently means one cannot go to confession. This excommunication can however be lifted and afterwards one can subsequently again be absolved. Thus one can be absolved of the sin of abortion. I...think. I'm not Catholic though and it's been a long time since I read about it.

I know there's some at GAF with a much better and thorough knowledge of the Catholic Church.

 

[PaNaMa]

That they're arrogant enough to think that women need forgiveness for owning their own body speaks volumes about the church.

Then again, it's the church.

Some people consider the human being baby to be it's own body, so murdering it dead isn't the same thing as removing a gall stone or whatever.

 

[SaganIsGOAT]

I can't imagine many women are seeking forgiveness regularly considering the vast majority of women don't regret their decisions in the first place. http://time.com/3956781/women-abortion-regret-reproductive-health/

 

[Fenderputty]

Yeah I was raised Catholic and that was my general impression too. I still remember my first confession. FUCK that was horrible. Never went again.

Pope Francis is obviously deciding here that women are all that keeps the church going so let's try not to drive them all away.

After my first confessions my mom looked at me and told me that if I want to talk to god and ask for forgiveness I could do it myself. My mom's an odd duck though. She doesn't believe Jesus was the son of God anymore, yet still thinks she's Catholic. Tradition and all that hoopla. Her and my father are both deists with my father holding more closely to the catholic faith. They both love this Pope though. For a Pope he's pretty rad.

 

[Master Thespian]

Still a shit Pope. He compared Transgender people to nuclear weapons. Just less shit than the others.

Soooooooooo...best Pope?

 

[entremet]

Modern Popes are nothing compared to height of the Catholic Church's political powers.

Those Popes were basically emperors and were responsible for some heinous stuff.

 

[BodiesWithoutOrgans]

Still hates the gays though

 

[Neol]

I agree that woman shouldn't need to ask for forgiveness for an abortion and its pretty absurd.

Still is a pretty nice step for the Church though further showing how more likable this Pope is.

 

[SaganIsGOAT]

Still hates the gays though

Oh really? Show me the excerpts of him explicitly saying he "hates" gays.

 

[Omegasquash]

Some people consider the human being baby to be it's own body, so murdering it dead isn't the same thing as removing a gall stone or whatever.

I lol'd at "murdering it dead".

 

[Flying Toaster]

See this sucks, because Pope Francis is trying to steal Obama's thunder as coolest World Leader!

All kidding aside I am appreciative that he is the Pope.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Some people consider the human being baby to be it's own body, so murdering it dead isn't the same thing as removing a gall stone or whatever.

Wonder why those people never protest outside IVF clinics even though their logic dictates it's the same thing.

Guess it's not the same when you get shout at women at abortion clinics.

 

[wildfire]

That they're arrogant enough to think that women need forgiveness for owning their own body speaks volumes about the church.

Then again, it's the church.

Women were asking for forgiveness. Sure they probably aren't representative of the majority but many people take solace in confessing their sins to the church. Have some better perspective.

 

[Tertullian]

Most priests in the United States already had faculties to forgive abortions (i.e. most bishops in the United States already gave their priests faculties to forgive abortion).

Reporting on Pope Francis continues to be hilariously misleading, as he mostly does and says exactly what his two immediate predecessors did and said, and somehow everyone decides to ignore the stuff they don't like and exaggerate the stuff they do like. In other news, grass is green.

Also, he gave faculties to validly hear confessions to the traditionalist quasi-schismatic group called the Fraternal Society of Saint Pius X. So that's interesting.

 

[PSqueak]

Wait, what? I was under the impression that priests where already free to do this, or forgive any "sin" as they see fit really, since, like, forever.

 

[entremet]

Wonder why those people never protest outside IVF clinics even though their logic dictates it's the same thing.

Guess it's not the same when you get shout at women at abortion clinics.

I thought Pro Life protestors were more Evangelical in makeup?

The Papacy does have extremely strict interpretation about birth control as well, but most practicing Catholics ignore it.

 

[teruterubozu]

Wait, what? I was under the impression that priests where already free to do this, or forgive any "sin" as they see fit really, since, like, forever.

Yes, but this a limited time special offer. Come ye, come all.

 

[Zeus Molecules]

I thought Pro Life protestors were more Evangelical in makeup?

The Papacy does have extremely strict interpretation about birth control as well, but most practicing Catholics ignore it.

Arguably a lot of what Pope Francis has done is just make official a lot of the unofficial things a lot of the members of the church already did.

 

[Northeastmonk]

If they can forgive women who had abortions then they can change more than they think. Doctrine is changed a lot if you consider 1 book has so many different names attached to it.

I do however feel strong about priest having the ability to have a family. I feel like priest should be allowed to have partners just like pastors get married.

If there is forgiveness for one then why not forgiveness for all?

 

[Spine_Ripper]

"Forgive"

"Best Pope"

Lol

 

[Alucrid]

"Forgive"

"Best Pope"

Lol

Pretty much.

 

[bonesmccoy]

This report is a bit inaccurate.

Normally, it is the local bishops call on how this (and a few other) sins are treated via this sacrament. So Bishop X could tell the priests in his diocese/whatever that they could offer the sacrament in these instances, while Bishop Y could tell his priests that only he or an Aux. Bishop could offer it. The Pope is suspending this rule for a year.

Why that rule exists in the first place is hard question to answer. I know several priests, from all over the world, and none of them have ever heard of the Bishop Y scenario.

El Topo - That's mostly right. Any 'major' sin leads to an excommunication. But that just means you're not supposed to receive communion.

 

[Futureman]

Wait, what? I was under the impression that priests where already free to do this, or forgive any "sin" as they see fit really, since, like, forever.

ha yea, I was raised Catholic and this was my impression. Like if you committed a sin and you are truly sorry, you can confess and the priest will forgive you and give you a penance.

so previously to this, if a woman was in a confessional and asked to be forgiven for an abortion, the priest would say, "Sorry, you're going to hell"?

 

[neshcom]

Maybe he said limited time because he knows the upper-level priests will shoot this down just like the gay marriage support statement.

 

[Fenderputty]

"Forgive"

"Best Pope"

Lol

Wait ... are you naive enough to assume he could take a different, or better stance?

 

[GreatestHits]

Damn. Another blow to the Christians

I bet you the GOP is pissing off the Pope

 

[The Albatross]

Wait, what? I was under the impression that priests where already free to do this, or forgive any "sin" as they see fit really, since, like, forever.

This.

I have a fairly strong command of Catholic Theology, and Abortion -- for someone truly seeking forgiveness -- has always been forgiveable as long as the person has a true heart.

*edit*

but I guess I'm wrong here:

Q. 1. Does the Catechism of the Catholic Church teach us anything about how a Catholic can be forgiven of the sin of abortion?

A. 1. The following two sections of the Catechism of the Catholic Church state:

# 2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae," [CIC, can. 1398] "by the very commission of the offense," [CIC, can. 1314] and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law. [Cf. CIC, cann. 1323-1324] The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society. [1463]

# 1463 Certain particularly grave sins incur excommunication, the most severe ecclesiastical penalty, which impedes the reception of the sacraments and the exercise of certain ecclesiastical acts, and for which absolution consequently cannot be granted, according to canon law, except by the Pope, the bishop of the place or priests authorized by them. [Cf. CIC, cann. 1331; 1354-1357; CCEO, can. 1431; 1434; 1420] In danger of death any priest, even if deprived of faculties for hearing confessions, can absolve from every sin and excommunication. [Cf. CIC, can. 976; CCEO, can. 725] [982]

 

[Omegasquash]

Women were asking for forgiveness. Sure they probably aren't representative of the majority but many people take solace in confessing their sins to the church. Have some better perspective.

I'm sure they do take solace. That they feel guilty or refer to their abortion as a sin at all is a problem in and of itself, because they should never have been taught that anyway.

 

[bonesmccoy]

so previously to this, if a woman was in a confessional and asked to be forgiven for an abortion, the priest would say, "Sorry, you're going to hell"?

My understanding is the priest and penitent would still complete the rite. But he'd arrange for another confession with the bishop for formal absolution of this specific sin.

 

[Tertullian]

ha yea, I was raised Catholic and this was my impression. Like if you committed a sin and you are truly sorry, you can confess and the priest will forgive you and give you a penance.

so previously to this, if a woman was in a confessional and asked to be forgiven for an abortion, the priest would say, "Sorry, you're going to hell"?

Abortion is a sin which by default incurs excommunication, and which priests by default don't have faculties to forgive (bishops do have such faculties by default). The reason for these rules is basically to stress the seriousness of taking innocent human lives, especially on such a large scale as happens in the United States.

But most bishops in the United States have explicitly given all their priests faculties to forgive abortions. In those few dioceses where that is not the case, if a woman showed up and confessed having an abortion, the priest would say, "Thank you for coming to confession, but I don't have faculties to forgive that sin. We need to set up a meeting with the bishop."

Essentially, this is a minor, largely symbolic procedural change.