Here's a hot tip. A big part of how the Republican Party is so successful in getting people to vote against their own interests is by exploiting divisions like this.
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Post-Women's March: white women, working class, and people might need to reflect
- Thread starter Messofanego
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Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
It's mostly dudes getting up in arms, dudes that are much more focused on the "white" than the "female."
Just grouping white women together might be abit too broad. It might be beneficial to look at what subcultures within that group of people voted for Trump, and then looking at why exactly they voted for Trump. There are many different cultural differences and subcultures, even within a certain race. The culture of somebody, their background and what they do is going to tell you alot more about voting habits than taking everyone, grouping them together and attacking them based on a very broad statistic.
Dr. Benton Quest
Banned
This is an interesting take really. Thank you.
KazenY2J
Member
Oh please.
Posts like this are nothing but trolling at this point.
It actually isn't. Not even close. This is not a discussion about the right and how far they can go. Other people know how far this shit goes. And if all you have to offer is opposition to the right, then you are in the wrong place. If you can't identify who has been holding the opposition in check for all of this time, then you can't tell friend from enemy, and you have little to no stakes to lose. People have been here. Forever been here. Showing up now doesn't make you any kind of qualified to make a difference if you're not more serious than a photo op. Do people get this offended when asked for some kind of knowledge or skill when they do anything else in life? Experience or a willingness to be there is what matters.
The divisions you speak of exists because of racism. The play here isn't to ignore it.
gregor7777
Banned
Like I said, I've been pretty clear on my stances. You've chosen to pretend to not understand some simple concepts. What more is there to say? I cant possibly dumb it down further, so round and round we go.
Important to bring these issues up but unfortunately I think since a lot of white people in suburbia aren't used to being challenged about race you've got to gently(not sure if the right word?) introduce the issues and keep in mind they're just not as in tune with marginalization. It's a foreign concept to many and it doesn't actually work to make other people feel like assholes unless you know them well.
Correct. Debate isn't interesting without an opposition and the natural opposition doesn't exist here. So new foes are needed, created, identified, and away we go with the Jacobin culling.
If Trump and the Republican party won on the basis of division against "the left". Please explain how Nixon won doing the same exact thing in 1968. Because their campaigns are not that much different.
finowns
Member
What discussion? NeoGAF political threads have become cliches and rhetoric ad nauseam.
No its because people don't vote in midterm elections, if they did even with trump as president we would be in a less worse situation than we are now.
The reason trump won was because they didn't feel motivated enough to vote for their democrat or replican, trump had lower votes than Mitt Romney for god sakes.
The republican party works on presenting the government is a system that needs to be " fixed" when in actuality if the republicans were gone or a minority the government could hypothetically work for the people much more efficiently
There is no divisions, or rather that isn't the main issue as you are trying to sell it there is a loss of hope a complacency that good just comes instead of having the work for it. That's the problem. But that's ok, with trump as president we might actually see people go out and vote.
Did I say any of those things? Come at me for what I'm offering, not rhetoric.
Where did anyone say that we should ignore racism.
Fair enough, thanks for indulging me in the practical aspect
King Tubby
Member
I'm not saying don't talk about white privilege. I'm saying we don't need to be vitriolic towards people who are more in line with us than not. I don't see how it's necessary to make general statements blaming white women for voting for Trump at a march where it is self-evident that almost everyone there didn't vote for him. Even if you think "obviously, I'm not talking about the white women that didn't vote for Trump so they shouldn't feel attacked", when you say "white women" that isn't how it comes across.
This was very interesting, thanks for linking it.
Come at you for what? Are you so thirsty that you're seeking a fight from anyone who has the slightest hint of difference in thought?
If you don't disagree then say you don't disagree, don't posture in front of me as if this is the animal kingdom and we're in a fight for dominance because I'm not playing that kiddy game and it's not impressing or intimidating.
I wasn't pretending, I didn't get it because my brain is a little fuzzy right now and when I asked for clarification, you've been a dick. So round and round we go because you are an ass
gregor7777
Banned
Shit, I have privledge over some races and classes due to the color if my skin. I'm certainly not turning down the benefits. I dont even know how I would. None of you would.
That doesn't mean I won't be an activist, a voter, and a sympathizer.
Big gulf between fuck you got mine and the people at these protests.
That doesn't mean I won't be an activist, a voter, and a sympathizer.
Big gulf between fuck you got mine and the people at these protests.
I don't disagree I still say that a flippant tweet there and a flippant sign here isn't enough for people, particular those already on the same side, to take their ball home. If it does that's a personal failing and nothing a change in language will ever solve.
But I'm talking about racism and so is the dude I'm replying to.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
The issue here seems to imply that White People need to do something. What, I'm not sure since most of these statements are just to the choir.
White female privilege is white women making 75% of what white men makes while a black woman only makes 63%.
Vicetrailia
Banned
Trump has done a good job of uniting people against him. Those white women who voted for him are of the typical smh variety.
Dr. Benton Quest
Banned
Would legislation making it illegal to pay women less solve both problems?
White female privilege is seeing a sign at that march that reads "trying to make a dollar out of 63 cents" and responding to it with "shouldn't it say 75 cents?"
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
gregor7777
Banned
Please tell me you don't assume that of most of the white women at this march. This train has got off the tracks.
Edit: I may have misread you, apologies if so.
Mailenstein
Member
What does one gain by all the infighting?
TheChuggernaut
Banned
I'm torn. If you're taking this personally, and decide not to help liberals anymore because of this, then yeah, you were never a real ally. I also agree that these people do need to do some self reflection if they're so ready to dip at the first sign of criticism.
At the same time though, should I really give a shit if someone is a real ally or not if they still come out an vote against republicans? As much as people shouldn't take a statement like this personally if it isn't referring to them, I don't think it changes the fact that people some people still are going to take something like this the wrong way. I get this is pretty much the definition of white fragility, but I don't want to go through another election where we lose because people don't show up. I have no intention of backing down from the fight because of criticism, but I don't know if I can say the same for everyone else.
If this reads like it's coming from a place of privilege, I apologize.
At the same time though, should I really give a shit if someone is a real ally or not if they still come out an vote against republicans? As much as people shouldn't take a statement like this personally if it isn't referring to them, I don't think it changes the fact that people some people still are going to take something like this the wrong way. I get this is pretty much the definition of white fragility, but I don't want to go through another election where we lose because people don't show up. I have no intention of backing down from the fight because of criticism, but I don't know if I can say the same for everyone else.
If this reads like it's coming from a place of privilege, I apologize.
Yes, convincing people to stay home is an important part of this strategy as well. Nowhere did I say that this was their only strategy. I don't see how this is a rebuttal.
TheTylerRob
Member
Nothing. This thread is incredibly sad and this deeply ingrained dick measuring contest about who is more liberal lost us the country.
No, I actually observed this on twitter. Someone tweeted that picture and that was one of the replies to it.
Intersectionality.
Was the reply by a white woman, though? internet and all. Silly point anyway, I'm pretty sure the fact that someone didn't know about 63 vs 75 isn't what "white woman privilege" is, more so it's the fact that 63 vs 75 exists.
If our progressive efforts become more intersectional by a result of having these discussions which you dub as infighting then I say it was all worth it
Mailenstein
Member
I thought people were going to take part for one reason only, but this is more about race and who voted who it seems. Nobody wins here and it boggles my mind that people don't understand that, but instead keep on hating each other just because.
Don't attribute what you perceive as the failing arguments in this thread to what I have said.
Don't play semantic games pretending you don't grasp simple concepts simply because you like to argue and get peoples goat.
How you got from there, to
Is your problem. The problem and how to resolve it has been clearly explained a dozen times here. A hundred yesterday and the day before in other threads. Not our problem if people want to argue and not get with the solution. Keep marching, once in a while.
Edit: "don't posture in front of me as if this is the animal kingdom and we're in a fight for dominance"
Really?
And_Gignac
Member
Op assumption is just that: an assumption based on unnecessary generalizations and prejudices.
I think we should understand that white women voters ain't a hive mind. Intersectionality + materialism makes this clear.
I think we should understand that white women voters ain't a hive mind. Intersectionality + materialism makes this clear.
Inclusion of everyone and not just "Oh this didn't work out for you specifically? Too bad
Here's the thing, say you "defeat" the Republicans in their current form. What if you need or want these fake allies in the future, where they gonna be then?
Nothing, I think people though don't think they're causing infighting or looking like they're being antagonistic but that this is somehow the start of a dialogue that will progress things.
Mailenstein
Member
Yeah, no. Look at this thread. I don't see anything positive coming out of it, just a gap that keeps getting better. You guys better learn how to use each others strong points and work together.
That is part of it, but a majority white male march would be treated with more tension by the cops because of the assumed harmlessness of white women due to benevolent sexism.
Ugh, let me approach this from another angle. If you see an editorial against princess narratives, it almost always is written by a white woman. The ones asking for more princess narratives tend to be from women of color. Why? White girls are raised with the narrative that they are to wait to be cherished and find their value in the love of an assumed-to-be-white man to the point that it poisons our relationships and we chafe under it. Girls of color don't get the message that they are to be cherished nearly enough. We experience sexism in different ways even as children.
White feminists who fail to get out of their bubble have a hard time seeing how a princess narrative could be empowering and enriching to someone else when we see it as disempowering and infantilizing. That is why listening is important. That doesn't mean we stop agitating against benevolent sexism, that means we account for the experiences of others in our activism.
saying 'You guys' implies you're on the outside looking in. What do you suggests other than platitudes?
So the problem is mine now that you're in complete agreement with me? Or are you just accosting me about what I said in general because you agree with the things I said in my quoted post? Which one is it?
Again I'm not impressed or intimidated. If you agree with me then that's all there is to it. If you don't (Or even if you mostly agree with what I said) then your posts would have better served you actually discussing the intricacies of why. A dialogue so you can explain your point more to me and I can detail what I mean more to you.
Instead you decided a flamboyant comeback about "coming at you" and an argument on my perception of your post would better serve you, I'm not sure why.
Well you got any suggestions since you seem to be on the outside peering in
everyday math
Banned
I'm a white woman who voted for Clinton. Fuck the other white woman who voted for trump. I was totally disgusted when I read that statistic months ago.
Honestly, I shouldn't have been as surprised as I was. I know quite a few woman who voted for Trump just so abortion would be banned. It's that fucking petty that they would risk other rights just for that. I just had too much faith that they would not vote for a sexual predator. But that abortion right?
As a white woman I would like to apologize to the other races. I don't want forgiveness. But as an individual you can bet my ass I try as hard as I can to convince my fellow whites to see the facts and to vote for not only benefiting themselves as woman, but to actually think beyond themselves and see that we need to pick up the slack. Minority woman get even less rights. It's shameful.
I work at a factory surrounded by people and when I mean people I mean white men. Who lets say are not educated...at all. I was told to my face tonight. Woman will never have equal rights ever compared to men. Right to my face.
This is the fight that we as woman face day in and day out of all races. And if the largest part of that gender can't get its head out of their collective asses then the fight will never be won.
I just wanted to share my thoughts that have been brewing in my head for a few months now. I just needed to share.
Honestly, I shouldn't have been as surprised as I was. I know quite a few woman who voted for Trump just so abortion would be banned. It's that fucking petty that they would risk other rights just for that. I just had too much faith that they would not vote for a sexual predator. But that abortion right?
As a white woman I would like to apologize to the other races. I don't want forgiveness. But as an individual you can bet my ass I try as hard as I can to convince my fellow whites to see the facts and to vote for not only benefiting themselves as woman, but to actually think beyond themselves and see that we need to pick up the slack. Minority woman get even less rights. It's shameful.
I work at a factory surrounded by people and when I mean people I mean white men. Who lets say are not educated...at all. I was told to my face tonight. Woman will never have equal rights ever compared to men. Right to my face.
This is the fight that we as woman face day in and day out of all races. And if the largest part of that gender can't get its head out of their collective asses then the fight will never be won.
I just wanted to share my thoughts that have been brewing in my head for a few months now. I just needed to share.
Mailenstein
Member
Not a platitude. And yes, I'm on the outside looking in, which is why you probably don't understand my point of view. I'm not emotionally invested into this whole scenario, but I don't need to be that to have a valid opinion. All I'm saying is that instead of pointing fingers at each other people need to start to work with each other, otherwise you won't see any positive outcome. Not understanding this boggles my mind.
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