excelsiorlef
Member
But you don't support enshrinement of laws that would protect folks from his hatred... okie doke.
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Preacher w/ you deserve to be raped sign hit over head by bat wielding woman
- Thread starter Veelk
- Start date
But you don't support enshrinement of laws that would protect folks from his hatred... okie doke.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
In conclusion after a call with my cousin, some of you people should sincerely stop citing the law and have a gross misunderstanding of what constitutes free speech and not terroristic threats of violence against minors, even vague ones. Even more dubious is how often the law is bent depending on the judge whenever cases like this prop up and how "fullest extent of the law" typically only applies for minorities and women. Jesus christ.
Riposte
Member
We already have laws that "prevent" antisocial behavior like attacking someone with a bat.
Again, a bat to the legs or arms, or somewhere that wouldn't have a high chance of killing him would have been fine. He's a piece of shit and deserves to be beaten back. But get hit in the head at the wrong angle? And you're done. I don't think we should just up and murder bad people the second they show themselves to be bad people.
What if he did die though? Where would your stance be then? That he deserved it and the girl who hit him doesn't deserve any punishment?
gutter_trash
Banned
I am highly disapointed by the single males without children in this thread,
CrocMother
Banned
What would this law look like? Any examples from other countries?
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
What he is doing is also against the law and isn't protected by fre specch
I would argue that attacking someone with a bat who is advocation rape of minors is pretty prosocial.
Rumblebones
Banned
I have a law degree, I am not a practising lawyer.
Go ahead and show your cousin the video and ask her to make a judgment without approaching the situation from the perspective of counsel for the student. Ask her if there was any threats made, if there is any incitement of criminal actions or grounds for self defence in striking the preacher.
If she's a good lawyer, she'll tell you she could argue all of those things if she were defending the student but that it wouldn't be necessarily true.
Snowybreak
Member
But he didn't, so it doesn't matter what my position would be. The intent wasn't to kill him obviously, otherwise she would have smashed his brains out, but just to teach him a lesson.
How can his speech be both protected and illegal?
excelsiorlef
Member
And what of preventing hatred...
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
I don't think people require governmental protection from a dude saying vile shit on the street, no.
Snowybreak
Member
Hey man, I'm a single male with no kids, but my mother raised me to be strong and fight against oppression in any form, and to stand up for those who can't.
gutter_trash
Banned
schools zone that encompass reduced speed limits should also be subject to higher scrutiny of proection from asshole haters like this preacher,
he should not be allowed to be near audible and visible distance from the school grounds
he should not be allowed to be near audible and visible distance from the school grounds
it's hilarious to see everybody frothing at the mouth literally wanting this guy dead, they're clearly not thinking straight here.
frankly i think it's pathetic behavior from both sides, but in my opinion violence is worse than shitty opinions. I don't care about hypotheticals whether he's a rapist or not, you don't know that so i'm not going to respond to that BS talk.
old manatee
Banned
He doesn't have to actually rape them to be terrorizing them with the threat of rape.
Riposte
Member
I think you are underestimating how bloodthirsty and vengeful humans are, especially it's not them who have to suffer the consequences.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Not guilty.
So to the people here that have a big problem with those saying that she shouldn't have struck him a bat: what do you think should happen to her? Do you think she should go home like nothing happened? Do you think the law should be "if somebody says some heinous shit, you're free to attack them with no legal recourse"?
Angelus Errare
Banned
Something something, free speech something something all opinions are valid and of equal weight and deserving of a platform, something something instead of getting angry how about civil discussion!
No idea what this even means.
excelsiorlef
Member
Why are we conflating the possibility of the preacher's words being a threat or hate speech with a legal justification for violence
Further, why are we conflating any skepticism about the actions of the woman as an automatic condonation of the preacher's opinion as normal or acceptable within the public sphere
Further, why are we conflating any skepticism about the actions of the woman as an automatic condonation of the preacher's opinion as normal or acceptable within the public sphere
they're trying to make his actions equal to threats and terrorization, with zero basis for either.
sorry but no matter what you say he's just another Christian lunatic yelling with bible in his hands, not a rapist or whatever, unless you care to prove it with facts shut up.
Snowybreak
Member
Whatever happens to her, happens to her. If she went in without understanding the consequences, then too bad. But if she swung anyways, knowing what could happen, then there's that too. The action is what matters here.
I don't trust our government to do it right at all. I'd expect to see it shut down a lot of black protests, frankly. One guy in the protest says something like "White people are scum" and suddenly it is shut down due to hate speech.
excelsiorlef
Member
This guy in Canada
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomasz_Winnicki
You can read more:
http://www.stopracism.ca/content/chrc-and-tomasz-winnicki-federal-court-reports
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Yea I sent her the link and article while on the phone. What the dude was doing in the first place, already counts as illegal, you cannot legally harass students even when doing so across the street. Inciting violence against individuals also does not fall under the definition of free speech.
Considering your posts ITT I wouldn't take your advice on what makes a good lawyer. Here's the thing, the vast majority of people ITT have said that she deserved to get off scott-free in terms of legality. But that doesn't mean that what she did was even in the same stratosphere as what he was doing.
Because he's a straight white man...
gutter_trash
Banned
I like you!
It definitely checks all the requirements and legal definition for everything I said. In another country where the laws aren't shit dude would have been arrested.
Riposte
Member
Your point of "if only it was illegal to do something, people wouldn't criminally assault the people doing it" is stupid on a fundamental level.
Trying to segue into a conversation about limiting the first amendment is a distraction in a thread about someone getting hit in the head with a bat.
So you got on the phone, called your cousin in arizona, explained the case, got him to weigh in on the legality of her actions and then typed up that post...
... in eight minutes. Seems good. Would he charge a full hour for that advice if you weren't family do you think?
I think she'll work her way through the legal system.
If I were sitting on her jury, I'd acquit. *shrug*
I think it's not unreasonable to have a law on the books that prevents someone from telling minors they should be raped. In that absence of that law currently (at least in AZ I suppose) I Think it's not unreasonable that someone stopped him from telling minors they should be raped.
This isn't a fucking math equation y'all, this is some pretty easy shit. Absolutionism is garbo.
Tripolygon
Banned
This is the equivalent of states right argument.
"Oh i'm not defending slavery, i'm just defending the idea that the federal government cannot tell states what to do"
And just to close the circle, the federal government went to war over this. So in other words, violence is needed sometimes to get shit done.
Lol, ok
Trigonometrize.
Member
What's your legal background?
SlipperyMoose
Member
I'm not sure if you're saying I am framing it like what he was saying doesn't hurt anyone. If you are, you're wrong. Regardless of what he was saying even if it hurts people you do not hit someone with a bat. Not only is that illegal, but do you think that is helping the situation and will make that person consider their point of views and change them? Do you think that sets a good example for the children across the street that if someone says mean and hurtful things to them that you can simply attack them? It doesn't. We have to be reasonable in situations like this and take the higher ground. For the record I am an atheist liberal that has dealt with rape in my family. My views don't align with this pastor at all.
Angelus Errare
Banned
We limit the first amendment all the damn time.
Example, you can't go out with a sign saying "Death to Americans, support ISIS".
But for some reason walking around with a sign in front of minors saying "You deserve to be raped." is A-Okay.
Screaming that high school kids deserve to be raped to their faces well exceeds the realm of "shitty opinion"
Rumblebones
Banned
You're telling me that you got on the phone with your cousin, showed her a nearly 8 minute long video, and she got back to you with her analysis - all in 5 minutes?
You are positively hilarious.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Her, and yes, there tends not to be any slippery slopes, false equivalence, and other general "no matter what I must decry violence" nonsense among our family when it comes to discussions.
She didn't get those profession by reading and watching slowly bro.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Legally, what he did would not be construed in a court as inciting violence. First amendment case law is pretty clear incitement has to be of the "Go kill that guy right there" variety, not the layers of abstraction involved in saying someone deserves to have a particular ill befall them. Also, it's questionable whether or not what he is doing counts as harassment, given harassment typically has to be sustained and targeted against a specific individual, not shouted as a generality for the world to hear.
He could maaaaaaybe be hit with disturbing the peace, but even that is sketchy, tbh.
Riposte
Member
My cousin is a lawyer and she can break down any gray area case in 8 minutes flat.
mashoutposse
Ante Up
She got 60 days in jail and 3 years probation on a plea deal. Drug charges were dropped.
The issue isn't that he was stopped, but how he was stopped. In this case, being struck in he head with a bat. So what you're saying here is that if somebody is telling minors they should be raped, that in your mind it is legally justifiable to strike them in the head with a bat. That's at least what your actions of aquitting would be doing.
She could have very easily killed him.
I'm not sure how or why you're going to justify that.
Her name? Albertina Einstein!
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