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[Dmented]

Yet this isn't attempted murder, and because he was advocating for the rape of teenagers.


Stop propping up "you deserve to be raped" as a different view. It's a threat.


He literally kicked a woman in the chest unprovoked for trying to have a discussion with him. Yet SHE'S the danger to society for responding violently to a man telling her that her and all her peers deserve to be raped.

This I did not see and I would say for this that he also deserves to be punished by the law, that is also assault.

But yes, you are a fucking danger to society if words can make you think it's fine to attack someone in a seriously violent way.

Don't act like I condone this fucking clown "preacher" spewing hateful ass nonsense, but I sure as fuck don't support bashing someone over the head with a fucking bat. But I guess who gives a fuck what I think to be honest, the police clearly do care and have dealt with it.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Yeah I don't support violence. That preacher was scum but that's his right. As long as he wasn't harming anyone let him speak so we can ridicule and ring him up as another bigot point on a giant graph

You have a bizarre definition of harm... but yes the solution is to tell teenage girls to just find this man, telling them they should be raped, to be funny and to "ridicule" him.

 

[old manatee]

It's just locker room talk.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Yeah but that was just like, his opinion man.

And all opinions should be equally respected,

Spoiler

especially the opinions of white men.

Just try to debate with him gais. Because violence, never, works

People advocating for assault, people advocating for murder, people advocating for rape. All advocating for the physical attack and suffering of another human being.

It's almost like context matters. False equivalence is a huge part of rape culture so thanks for demonstrating that.

 

[benicillin]

I think there's a certain amount of privilege one must acknowledge if you're a man and you're saying that a man outside a school advocating that an underage girl be raped is just language and not a form of violence.

 

[Vicetrailia]

This I did not see and I would say for this that he also deserves to be punished by the law, that is also assault.

But yes, you are a fucking danger to society if words can make you think it's fine to attack someone in a seriously violent way.

Don't act like I condone this fucking clown "preacher" spewing hateful ass nonsense, but I sure as fuck don't support bashing someone over the head with a fucking bat. But I guess who gives a fuck what I think to be honest, the police clearly do care and have dealt with it.

But a punch can kill people, so everything is seriously violent. His hateful actions have consequences too even if the law doesn't support it.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

Do you have any evidence of rapes being committed as an enactment of this guy's (and others like him) weird brand of Christian karma?

Not to go into a dark topic, but there were some really fucking psychos who thought they were doing God's work because I deserved it for dressing and acting like a girl when I was a 7 year old boy. Many of them believe things similar to what this guy is saying. It's not so uncommon.

 

[excelsiorlef]

That was hilarious.

Care to elaborate on what's funny?

 

[Two Words]

I think there's a certain amount of privilege one must acknowledge if you're a man and you're saying that a man outside a school advocating that an underage girl be raped is just language and not a form of violence.

I mean, you can say it is hateful language or harmful language, but it isn't violence.

 

[crazepharmacist]

So it's ok to tell kids they deserve to be raped? Christ, you're kind of an awful person. Violence is not ok, but against such a depraved and disgusting mind I'd say it was warranted.

They're words. Sticks and stone may hurt me but words will never break me or something like that. I work in health care; dude probably has a mental illness and doesn't even know what he's saying. So we should just hit him over the head with a metal bat because of it? Cause violence is the answer right?

 

[gutter_trash]

Frankly, that seems like a lot of words against a simple idea. A civil society cannot exist where words can be normally be met with violence. What the guy said is disgusting. I think we all agree with that. But it cannot be used as justification for violence. Violence can definitely be used as an effective tool to immediately silence a bigot, but that isn't a good reason to use it. I've been called a nigger several times, especially throughout high school. There was never a single time where hitting someone with a bat for it would have been justified or even be good for me.

he is disturbing the peace by pulling that shit next to a school full of minors,

he got off easy with a minor bat tap, he deserves to got to jail and get registered as a sex offender

 

[excelsiorlef]

They're words. Sticks and stone may hurt me but words will never break me or something like that. I work in health care; dude probably has a mental illness and doesn't even know what he's saying. So we should just hit him over the head with a metal bat because of it? Cause violence is the answer right?

You know that that childish rhyme is complete bullshit yes?

Words aren't benign...


And lol I love that you just assume the absolute best of him... you complete wipe away what his words can do and then whitewash his actions as just being a sick man who somehow doesn't know what he's saying. Just some innocent victim of society eh?

 

[crazepharmacist]

Speech is not free, not when it has an effect on others.
If you are willing to put it out there, then you need to be willing to be accountable.
She should have used a wood bat, better crack on impact.
Amazing how convenient that Free Speech shield can be

You know that that childish rhyme is complete bullshit yes?

Words aren't benign...

It only has an effect on others if they let it. A metal bat to the head you don't even see coming has no chance to be ignored or deflected.

 

[benicillin]

I mean, you can say it is hateful language or harmful language, but it isn't violence.

Violence includes those acts that result from a power relationship, including threats and intimidation, neglect or acts of omission. Such non-physical violence has a broad range of outcomes – including psychological harm, deprivation and maldevelopment. Violence may not necessarily result in injury or death, but nonetheless poses a substantial burden on individuals, families, communities and health care systems worldwide. Many forms of violence against women, children and the elderly, for instance, can result in physical, psychological and social problems that do not necessarily lead to injury, disability or death. These consequences can be immediate, as well as latent, and can last for years after the initial abuse. Defining outcomes solely in terms of injury or death thus limits the understanding of the full impact of violence.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I agree, call the cops and say you were threatened. Take a video of him for documentation. But taking violence into your hands as a response isn't justified unless he actually touches you or there is a clear "call to action". If he had said "we should all rape these people, you rape them too" then you're in the clear for putting a stop to that, but it's situational. That's the law currently

Terroristic threats aren't protected by the law.

My issue is the false choice being presented as being between either vigilante or mob violence or acceptance.

I'm saying the wait and see if they'll strike first approach doesn't work. The wait and see approach is genuinely contributing to the fast rise of fascism in this country to the point where we genuinely have a nazi, white supremacists, and global warming deniers in the white house, in 2017. And you know, the police spend more time protecting this dude moreso than the people he's harassing. Imagine that.

Frankly, that seems like a lot of words against a simple idea. A civil society cannot exist where words can be normally be met with violence. What the guy said is disgusting. I think we all agree with that. But it cannot be used as justification for violence. Violence can definitely be used as an effective tool to immediately silence a bigot, but that isn't a good reason to use it. I've been called a nigger several times, especially throughout high school. There was never a single time where hitting someone with a bat for it would have been justified or even be good for me.

As someone who dealt with racism and bullying throughout a large part of school, literally the only way that stopped, was through violent means. By confronting the person doing it. Especially, when they resorted to threatening my person or worse yet, my family and peers. Like just no. And you know what, people didn't say, "Eden, you should've tried to debate with that dude." No, like this crowd, they cheered. No one has time to ignore or debate with these kinds of people.

 

[gutter_trash]

They're words. Sticks and stone may hurt me but words will never break me or something like that. I work in health care; dude probably has a mental illness and doesn't even know what he's saying. So we should just hit him over the head with a metal bat because of it? Cause violence is the answer right?

when words are threats, they are criminal

 

[SlipperyMoose]

The guy has some insane views but he shouldn't have been hit. It is a good thing the girl that hit him got arrested.

 

[Two Words]

he is disturbing the peace by pulling that shit next to a school full of minors,

he got off easy with a minor bat tap, he deserves to got to jail and get registered as a sex offender

I'm not arguing against police involvement.

 

[excelsiorlef]

It only has an effect on others if they let it. A metal bat to the head you don't even see coming has no chance to be ignored or deflected.

You don't work in the mental health industry do you?

Because I fear for the level of treatment folks would get from you if you basically think the only reason words hurt is because the person lets them...

 

[Westbahnhof]

It only has an effect on others if they let it. A metal bat to the head you don't even see coming has no chance to be ignored or deflected.

You actually think people can just choose to not be affected by cruel words? Really?

 

[Hickbilly Deluxe]

It's almost like context matters. False equivalence is a huge part of rape culture so thanks for demonstrating that.

Advocating violence against a singular individual is advocating violence against a singular individual regardless of context.

 

[Two Words]

Terroristic threats aren't protected by the law.


I'm saying the wait and see if they'll strike first approach doesn't work. The wait and see approach is genuinely contributing to the fast rise of fascism in this country to the point where we genuinely have a nazi, white supremacists, and global warming deniers in the white house, in 2017. And you know, the police spend more time protecting this dude moreso than the people he's harassing. Imagine that.


As someone who dealt with racism and bullying throughout a large part of school, literally the only way that stopped, was through violent means. By confronting the person doing it. Especially, when they resorted to threatening my person or worse yet, my family and peers. Like just no. And you know what, people didn't say, "Eden, you should've tried to debate with that dude." No, like this crowd, they cheered. No one has time to ignore or debate with these kinds of people.

I'm not going to waste my time debating a bigot either. But nothing truly valuable is gained through violence. All you really do that is significant is roll the dice on getting into legal trouble. And the problem with justifying violence is that everybody thinks they are a worthy person to judge whether some particular set of words deserve to be responded with violence. It is messy area to try and navigate. It is best for a society to only respond to immediate threats with violence.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Advocating violence against a singular individual is advocating violence against a singular individual regardless of context.

It's advocating violence against what he represents.

I'm not going to waste my time debating a bigot either. But nothing truly valuable is gained through violence.

My dignity, their silence, and the lesson that words aren't just words and can have consequences. I consider those all valuable.

 

[Vicetrailia]

You actually think people can just choose to not be affected by cruel words? Really?

Let's be honest. If we put this to the test he wouldn't hold up. He's not a victim of this speech so he can just wave it off.

 

[Trigonometrize.]

You don't work in the mental health industry do you?

Because I fear for the level of treatment folks would get from you if you basically think the only reason words hurt is because the person lets them...

"crazepharmacist"

No I'm pretty confident he's the real deal going off that name of his.

 

[Icedburden]

when words are threats, they are criminal

"You deserve to get raped", is not the same legality-wise as holding a sign saying, "You will get raped". People saying he's threatening people need to understand this. Both are horrible, but that's how it works.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

I think there's a certain amount of privilege one must acknowledge if you're a man and you're saying that a man outside a school advocating that an underage girl be raped is just language and not a form of violence.

What if I simply balk at the idea of "epistemic violence" in general, and see a pretty clear difference between being pissed or upset that somebody said something heinous and the literal disruption of your body's autonomous function that comes via violence?

 

[2MF]

I think there's a certain amount of privilege one must acknowledge if you're a man and you're saying that a man outside a school advocating that an underage girl be raped is just language and not a form of violence.

There is such a thing as a proportional response though.

If the woman had put up a sign saying "If you advocate for rape you deserve to get fucked sideways by a rusty chainsaw", not many people would argue against that action.

But heavily injuring (possibly killing) someone because they're holding up a very nasty sign is not proportional.

 

[Two Words]

It's advocating violence against what he represents.


My dignity, their silence, and the lesson that words aren't just words and can have consequences

Well I don't feel like I need to attack them to maintain my dignity. My dignity is my own and they can't do anything about that. And I don't think you should leave out the rest of my point. It's all well and good to think "I know where to draw the line between when words should be met with violence". But really, that is an ideal that many people with difference views are going to have a different take on. You say words aren't just words and can consequences, but that can vary wildly. To some, making a joke about their religion can be viewed as something deserving a violent response to maintain their dignity and silence the person.

The response of "rape is different" doesn't matter when you're empowering people to choose to respond to words with violence. It fundamentally comes down to "this person said something that emotionally triggers something in me that makes me feel I must silence them with violence." For you, you are saying that advocating rape on minors justifies that triggering. You can argue that comparing other things to it are false equivalences, but it doesn't really matter when it comes down to responding to your emotions. Even if something logically is a false equivalence, it doesn't matter if it is an emotional equivalence to the person.

 

[crazepharmacist]

Just to be clear I think what this guy is saying is absurd. I'm not defending him. I'm just defending his right to free speech. It's a universal right in the US and gives you the ability to speak out against Trump for example just as it gives this guy the right to say whatever crazy shit he is saying. Same principle applies to the Westboro Baptist church picketing soldier's funerals.

And no, I don't go around saying whatever the hell I want to mentally ill patients. I work on a cardiac floor but I was just floated to the ICU to sit on a mentally ill, homicidal patients in 4 point restraints. You have to be very careful how you talk to patients like that because anything can set them off. A mentally healthy individual though? I expect they have the ability to understand what this guy is saying is crazy, ignore it and not let it affect them. And especially not to use violence to silence him.

 

[Crossing Eden]

There is such a thing as a proportional response though.

If the woman had put up a sign saying "If you advocate for rape you deserve to get fucked sideways by a rusty chainsaw", not many people would argue against that action.

But heavily injuring (possibly killing) someone because they're holding up a very nasty sign is not proportional.

He wasn't just holding up a sign, he for an extended period of time was holding up a megaphone harassing them.

Well I don't feel like I need to attack them to maintain my dignity. My dignity is my own and they can't do anything about that. And I don't think you should leave out the rest of my point. It's all well and good to think "I know where to draw the line between when words should be met with violence". But really, that is an ideal that many people with difference views are going to have a different take on.

Depending on how much they've actually faced similar things in their life.

You say words aren't just words and can consequences, but that can vary wildly. To some, making a joke about their religion can be viewed as something deserving a violent response to maintain their dignity and silence the person.

Yea you're right, like the fact that we somehow have to debate about when to draw the line when it comes to old white men saying the n word on national television, whether or not Milo who actively harasses and doxxed LBGT students deserve a platform, whether or not to draw the line at a man saying that women in general deserved to be raped at multiple college campuses, with a megaphone no less, and then doing the same to teenagers, or whether or not it's ok to punch someone with genocide.

The response of "rape is different" doesn't matter when you're empowering people to choose to respond to words with violence. It fundamentally comes down to "this person said something that emotionally triggers something in me that makes me feel I must silence them with violence." For you, you are saying that advocating rape on minors justifies that triggering. You can argue that comparing other things to it are false equivalences, but it doesn't really matter when it comes down to responding to your emotions. Even if something logically is a false equivalence, it doesn't matter if it is an emotional equivalence to the person.

I wish I lived in a state where nothing said deserved to be met with violence. And that we must simply ignore or comply with everything that happens to us. Unfortunately we don't live in a country where total compliance and debate has no effect. Especially since we have people dying on the sword for the right to a platform but not for the right to not have to take shit from said platform.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Just to be clear I think what this guy is saying is absurd. I'm not defending him. I'm just defending his right to free speech. It's a universal right in the US and gives you the ability to speak out against Trump for example just as it gives this guy the right to say whatever crazy shit he is saying. Same principle applies to the Westboro Baptist church picketing soldier's funerals.

And no, I don't go around saying whatever the hell I want to mentally ill patients. I work on a cardiac floor but I was just floated to the ICU to sit on a mentally ill, homicidal patients in 4 point restraints. You have to be very careful how you talk to patients like that because anything can set them off. A mentally healthy individual though? I expect they have the ability to understand what this guy is saying is crazy, ignore and not let it affect them. And especially not to use violent to silence him.

No one needs you to defend his free speech.


Also as if you think we couldn't protest Trump without also allowing men to yell at high school kids that they should get raped.


Oh so now anyone who doesn't ignore him and is affected by his vile words are also probably mentally ill... you're batting a thousand here.

 

[crazepharmacist]

No one needs you to defend his free speech.


Also as if you think we couldn't protest Trump without also allowing men to yell at high school kids that they should get raped.


Oh so now anyone who doesn't ignore him and is affected by his vile words are also probably mentally ill... you're batting a thousand here.

yeah, just put words in my mouth huh? Because I said that, right? Not even going to engage with you anymore.

 

[Alavard]

yeah, just put words in my mouth huh? Because I said that, right? Not even going to engage with you anymore.

You sound upset. Have you tried not letting the words get to you? They're just words, as you said.

 

[2MF]

He wasn't just holding up a sign, he for an extended period of time was holding up a megaphone harassing them.

Still doesn't justify responding with deadly force.

If we as a society agree that people who say very nasty things deserve to get beaten up / killed, there will be dark times ahead. Let's not do that.

 

[excelsiorlef]

yeah, just put words in my mouth huh? Because I said that, right? Not even going to engage with you anymore.

A mentally healthy individual though? I expect they have the ability to understand what this guy is saying is crazy, ignore and not let it affect them. And especially not to use violent to silence him.

Maybe pick better words?

Like how can you not see that sounds like an implication...

 

[old manatee]

Kids don't have a right to an education without a guy with a bullhorn standing next to them terrorizing them with the specter of rape?

 

[MUnited83]

Just to be clear I think what this guy is saying is absurd. I'm not defending him. I'm just defending his right to free speech. It's a universal right in the US and gives you the ability to speak out against Trump for example just as it gives this guy the right to say whatever crazy shit he is saying. Same principle applies to the Westboro Baptist church picketing soldier's funerals.

And no, I don't go around saying whatever the hell I want to mentally ill patients. I work on a cardiac floor but I was just floated to the ICU to sit on a mentally ill, homicidal patients in 4 point restraints. You have to be very careful how you talk to patients like that because anything can set them off. A mentally healthy individual though? I expect they have the ability to understand what this guy is saying is crazy, ignore it and not let it affect them. And especially not to use violence to silence him.

Harassment, incitment of violence and threats of rape are not free speech.

 

[crazepharmacist]

No one needs you to defend his free speech.


Also as if you think we couldn't protest Trump without also allowing men to yell at high school kids that they should get raped.


Oh so now anyone who doesn't ignore him and is affected by his vile words are also probably mentally ill... you're batting a thousand here.

Maybe pick better words?

they have the ability. Not saying that if they choose to engage in discussion with the man instead of ignoring him they are mentally ill. Maybe the person who hit him with a bat is but I'm not a psychiatrist.

 

[Alavard]

they have the ability. Not saying that if they choose to engage in discussion with the man instead of ignoring him they are mentally ill. Maybe the person who hit him with a bat is but I'm not a psychiatrist.

So why did you leap to the conclusion that the preacher probably has a mental illness?

 

[excelsiorlef]

they have the ability. Not saying that if they choose to engage in discussion with the man instead of ignoring him they are mentally ill. Maybe the person who hit him with a bat is but I'm not a psychiatrist.

Well you've certainly been acting like one given that you've been diagnosing this man as clearly mentally ill who doesn't know what he's saying...

 

[crazepharmacist]

Harassment, incitment of violence and threats of rape are not free speech.

maybe the first two but he definitely wasn't threatening rape as someone mentioned earlier. Saying you deserve to be raped is different than saying I will rape you. Also, why wasn't he arrested instead of just the woman who hit him with a bat? This happened a while ago and this video has been around for some time. I think if the police had enough evidence they would have charged him with something?

 

[gutter_trash]

Still doesn't justify responding with deadly force.

If we as a society agree that people who say very nasty things deserve to get beaten up / killed, there will be dark times ahead. Let's not do that.

I hate when society goes "both sides" when verbal threats are considered to be "equal discussion""

that is bullshit, a verbal threat of comitting sexual abuse is a threat that should lead to that "preacher's" incarceration

plus, he should be slapped with a restraining order that is equivelant as a pedo sex offender's

 

[CrocMother]

I'm confused, are people arguing that the girl should be able to hit him with the bat with no legal consequences because of what his sign said?

Or are they arguing that we should be cheering for her action, but acknowledging that she has to be arrested?

 

[marrec]

Nah fuck all this "uhh violence boo waaaah" garbage, dude desevered to get bonked on the head if he's spewing that kinda violent rhetoric. If he'd have tried that shit in my hometown I know a fair few dads who'd have made him take a long trip to the desert.

Garbage person has bad thing happen, oh no.

 

[Lil'DigiOp]

Portion of GAF confirmed to be pussies who can't stand for anything that doesn't affect them.

Fucking sick.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Since when it is unreasonable to expect people not to get violently upset at a stranger screaming shit on the street, however vile? The dude is obviously a piece of shit, but a guy screaming heinous shit during the minute or two you have to walk by him on the sidewalk is not some indomitable psychological burden or an "abuse victim standing up to their abuser" situation.

Edit: Note that I am not saying I have sympathy for the guy, I don't. He can go fuck himself.

 

[Snowybreak]

I'm confused, are people arguing that the girl should be able to hit him with the bat with no legal consequences because of what his sign said?

Or are they arguing that we should be cheering for her action, but acknowledging that she has to be arrested?

The second one.

 

[gutter_trash]

Since when it is unreasonable to expect people not to get violently upset at a stranger screaming shit on the street, however vile? The dude is obviously a piece of shit, but a guy screaming heinous shit during the minute or two you have to walk by him on the sidewalk is not some indomitable psychological burden.

it's a school, full of minors. Not an office building

a) minors reaact differently than adults in such situations.

b) parents of minors are protective and would defend theirs children like a Mama bear would

 

[old manatee]

I'm confused, are people arguing that the girl should be able to hit him with the bat with no legal consequences because of what his sign said?

Or are they arguing that we should be cheering for her action, but acknowledging that she has to be arrested?

The police should not have let this guy get away with threatening school children for years.