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Earlier today in the financial times: There were two real interesting letters to the editor... This would make it seem that Palestinians are as entitled to the land and even more so than the Israelis as they stayed during the various hardships of that land brought. Although various Jewish populations are similar to the Muslim/Christian populations of the land around that area.

Regardless this is very interesting debate to have with anyone.

Was remedy for atrocity against Jews unfounded?

Published: November 21 2009 02:00 | Last updated: November 21 2009 02:00

From Mr Paul Justison.

Sir, Having just read The Invention of the Jewish People by Shlomo Sand, I was disappointed by Simon Schama’s review (November 14/15). He belittles the book’s observation that there never was a Jewish exile and that most European Jewry were converts with roots in central Asia and Europe.

Mr Schama posits that this may be taught to schoolchildren, but professional historians know better. But, as Shlomo Sand shows, the myth of exile is enshrined in Israeli icons and has had profound implications. While the author does not ask it, a reasonable question is: “Had the United Nations in 1948 been aware that European Jewry were not rooted in Palestine, would it have given them more than half of that now tragic land?” Simon Schama believes that "Israel's case is the remedy for atrocity ... ”

Certainly there was atrocity, but was the remedy gravely unfounded? Mr Sand makes the case with a variety of evidence that the present-day Palestinians are probably the descendants of the Jews who never left. They converted to Christianity and to Islam, but remained tied to the land. Mr Schama ignores this point.

It is all too common for Jews and Gentiles to suspend their morality when they see Israeli actions towards the Palestinians.

It would be far harder to suspend that morality, if all realised, there was no exile and that those pesky Palestinians are the remains of the original Jewish inhabitants. Such a realisation could spur momentum for a just resolution.

Paul Justison,
Oakland, CA, US

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/849d17e0-d63e-11de-b80f-00144feabdc0.html?nclick_check=1


Counter-argument:

Scientific evidence backs idea that Jews are one people

Published: November 21 2009 02:00 | Last updated: November 21 2009 02:00

From Dr Jacob Amir.

Sir, In his review of Shlomo Sand’s book, The Invention of the Jewish People , Simon Schama ignores the genetic research which clearly shows that, even though there is no “Jewish DNA”, there is definite biological-genetic evidence that the Jews are one people (“Twist of history”, Life & Arts, November 14/15).

Researchers have found that despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level. Palestinian, Syrian and other non-Jewish Middle Eastern populations were also very close to the Jewish populations. Other research showed that the Jews in different countries were much closer to Jews in other countries than to their non-Jewish neighbours.

The Ashkenazi Jews were not found to be similar to present-day Turkish speakers, contrary to the suggestion that Ashkenazi Jews were descended from the Khazars, a Turkish-Asian empire that converted to Judaism in or about the 8th century CE.

The results support the notion that modern Jews are descendants of the Jews who lived in the Middle East 1,900 years ago. Contrary to Mr Sand’s assertion, both history and science support the existence of the Jewish people.

Jacob Amir,
Jerusalem, Israel

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b301f7ea-d63e-11de-b80f-00144feabdc0.html

 

[How About No]

No John you are the Jews

 

[Scuba Steve]

Extermination by Procreation, I like it

 

[Count Dookkake]

Oy, what a twist!

 

[Jayge]

Oy, what a twist!

Shit, I lost it :lol

 

[Shogmaster]

...written and directed by M Night Shamalan

 

[Count Dookkake]

...written and directed by M Night Shamalan

Am I on your ignore list or something?

 

[phalestine]

This is a theory yes. Now really the main issue most Palestinians have is the occupation, not the land.

 

[Peronthious]

Well now this solves everything about the whole israel situation!

Oh wait, no it doesn't.

Meh.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

popcorn.gif

 

[badcrumble]

If this changes someone's opinion on the issue they're probably a racist.

 

[ToxicAdam]

..and they're all probably part Phoenician too. So, raise the Phoenician flag and unite all of the Mediterranean.

 

[zoku88]

..and their all probably part Phoenician too. So, raise the Phoenician flag and unite all of the Mediterranean.

They should wipe out Rome while they're at it.

And pour some salt.

 

[rpmurphy]

I wonder which side would be offended more about such a theory, which basically equates both peoples.

 

[atkbob]

What jew gunna do

 

[legend166]

As much as I love to take letters to the editor at face value, would you happen to have another source for this? It sounds interesting.

 

[SoulPlaya]

I was always under the impression that the current hostilities between the two groups was more related to religion than any real dispute over ethnicity. An interesting find, if true however.

 

[Chichikov]

As much as I love to take letters to the editor at face value, would you happen to have another source for this? It sounds interesting.

http://www.pnas.org/content/97/12/6769.full

It should be noted that according to this study, Jews (who lived in Eastern Europe, north Africa etc. for hundreds of years) are more genetically related to each other than to the Palestinians.

I was always under the impression that the current hostilities between the two groups was more related to religion than any real dispute over ethnicity. An interesting find, if true however.

It's definitely not an ethnic struggle, and in its origin, it's not even a religious one, Zionism and Pan Arabism are both secular movements.
Historically, it was a nationalistic conflict.

 

[ZiZ]

I think most Arabs and Muslims think of Jews as followers of a religion than as a race

 

[Dooraven]

Aren't we all related someway or another since everyone originated from Africa?

 

[Ydahs]

I think most Arabs and Muslims think of Jews as followers of a religion than as a race

Yeah, I see it this way and so do many of the Muslims I know.

 

[Kevtones]

They should start doing this on Maury?

YOU ARE NOT THE JEWISH

 

[Zenith]

Does this mean the Israelis are anti-semitic?

 

[Scipius]

Just wait until someone starts bringing the Samaritans into this debate.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Does this mean the Israelis are anti-semitic?

You should read the wiki on the definition of semitic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

Self hating Jews just went to a new level.

 

[Alx]

Researchers have found that despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level. Palestinian, Syrian and other non-Jewish Middle Eastern populations were also very close to the Jewish populations. Other research showed that the Jews in different countries were much closer to Jews in other countries than to their non-Jewish neighbours.

Sorry to bring Godwin's law in the topic, but trying to find a "genetic signature" of jewish people sounds a bit too much like old "scientific" thories of the 1930s, pretending to measure "jewishness" of people. What next, crooked nose and fingers ?
If this research were not lead by israeli scientists, it would have raised a scandal around the world...

 

[Amalthea]

Wasn't that always clear? :lol

 

[Jacobi]

I don't think that's what the Palestinians want to hear :lol

 

[Walshicus]

Hah, sounds about right.

Of course it doesn't change Israeli opinions about either the two-state solution [which few are willing to stomach] or the one-state solution which is also unthinkable.

I don't think that's what the Palestinians want to hear

See above. It's the Israelis who have more to lose by accepting that Palestinians are the rightful inhabitants... but then the world and its dog already know that.

 

[Bernbaum]

...written and directed by M Night Shamalan

Exactly!

 

[Count Dookkake]

Exactly!

It's like he doesn't get the joke.

Seriously, that was one of my better ones.

 

[KimiNewt]

I may be biased but honestly I don't see how any of this matters. The two people are already there and neither is going away. Eventually they'll settle their differences and live mildly happily ever after.

 

[CharlieDigital]

Aren't we all related someway or another since everyone originated from Africa?

The premise of this whole thread is so fucking stupid.

At the end of the day, I can only ask one question: aren't we all human?

We're all human. When I hold a door open for an elderly woman or help someone carry their stuff or pick up something that someone drops and hand it back to them, I don't think twice about their race, religion, sex, or whatever. I just know that they're human beings like me and I'd want someone to help me in those same situations.

Shit man, Palestinian, Jew, Hindu, Muslim, black, white, yellow, male, female, young, old...at the end of the day, every normal human being wants the same basic things: gainful employment, happiness, family, prosperity, and good health.

I may be biased but honestly I don't see how any of this matters. The two people are already there and neither is going away. Eventually they'll settle their differences and live mildly happily ever after.

Exactly. Both sides need to just get over themselves and face up to reality.

 

[JDSN]

No John you are the Jews

:lol Perfect.

 

[Phobophile]

I bet they have a bit of Native American in them, too.